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issue and inconsistency in fitting window rounding - CPM take a look

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1905	Posted - 2015.01.25 13:54:00 - [1] - Quote some time ago I made a thread reporting an issue with rounding => https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=186049 I have a fit, that mathematically should work fine but ingame it does not. I had a discussion with a GM through a ticket and it looks like it works the following way: numbers are rounded to the first decimal place and since the fitting window can only accommodate whole numbers it is again rounded to whole numbers now lets take the following fit: Assault mk.0 Complex Light Damage Modifier Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Recharger Complex Armor Repairer Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Shield Regulator Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Six Kin Submachine Gun Core Locus Grenade Wiyrkomi Nanite Injector with max skills the fit will have available CPU of 514.5 have required CPU of 514.4625 now required CPU is first rounded to the first decimal thus becomes 514.5 and since the fitting window can only accommodate whole numbers it is again rounded up to 515. this is all fine. here comes the part of the incosistency/bug, the available CPU is 514.5 and since the fitting window can only accommodate whole numbers it is again rounded BUT it is rounded down incorrectly to 514. result is an invalid while mathematically it will fit perfectly. I dont exactly know why this is incorrectly rounded here, but it happens. another fit, tested by myself ingame with a respec: Assault gk.0 Complex Light Damage Modifier Complex Light Damage Modifier Complex Light Damage Modifier Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Armor Repairer Complex Armor Repairer Allotek Plasma Cannon Core Flaylock Pistol Core Locus Grenade Ishukone Nanohive available PG 91.875 results in 92 ingame. required PG 92.25 results in 92 ingame. for some magical reason this fit is, unlike my minmatar assault, rounded correctly. my concern is, the inconsistent behavior and rounding can make certain fits invalid, like my minmatar assault. the core and weapon fitting skills will always produce decimals and thus can make heavily invested SP into skills, to milk out a bit more, worthless because while you could mathematically make the fit, you could find out ingame you still cant. this should be looked at imho.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 824	Posted - 2015.01.26 04:59:00 - [2] - Quote +1 Agreed Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1989	Posted - 2015.01.29 09:10:00 - [3] - Quote would be awesome if a CPM could post an answer

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16233	Posted - 2015.01.30 02:20:00 - [4] - Quote I will check, but I assume that it is not rounding first to .5 and then from the .5 the correct rounding to zero decimal "is" 514 , so therefore the fit is invalid. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8154	Posted - 2015.01.30 02:47:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I will check, but I assume that it is not rounding first to .5 and then from the .5 the correct rounding to zero decimal "is" 514 , so therefore the fit is invalid. Thanks for clearing that up. Will knock it off the Trello list. Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2000	Posted - 2015.01.30 08:42:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I will check, but I assume that it is not rounding first to .5 and then from the .5 the correct rounding to zero decimal "is" 514 , so therefore the fit is invalid. I know how the correct rounding to zero is, that was the whole point of my thread mathematically the fits total CPU available CPU is 514.5 => it ends with 514 ingame mathematicall the total CPU the fit requires is 514.4625 => it ends with 515 ingame results 515 out of 514, fit invalid. when rounding towards zero the fit should end 514 out of 514 when rounding towards the nearest the should end with 514 out of 515 in both cases the fit would be valid. something is fishy here unless results are rounded inbetween. my other fit available PG 91.875 results in 92 ingame. required PG 92.25 results in 92 ingame. looks like it is not rounded towards zero but rounded towards the nearest.
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1847	Posted - 2015.01.30 11:14:00 - [7] - Quote Jack: Over this week, I have finally leveled up most of my skills to match yours when it comes to CPU to test this specific issue. Like I've said before something is wonky, but I need to test a bunch of different things. Find me in corp chat and we'll run some tests. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2000	Posted - 2015.01.30 12:49:00 - [8] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Jack: Over this week, I have finally leveled up most of my skills to match yours when it comes to CPU to test this specific issue. Like I've said before something is wonky, but I need to test a bunch of different things. Find me in corp chat and we'll run some tests. I think? Anyways, I'm still going to run some tests when I get home. I respecced out of it and dont have the skills for it any more thus I cant really help you with the tests. Kaze Eyrou wrote: EDIT: I think I understand what Rattati is trying to say. When the CPU is 514.44, the 4 in the hundreds place rounds down, and tens place is unaffected. 514.4 then rounds down to 514. However, if it should be 514.45, the hundreds place rounds up to 514.5, and finally to 515. this doesnt really change anything, or atleast it shouldnt. a smaller value can never end bigger when rounded then a larger when rounded if both values are rounded the same way unless CCP invented some new rounding method . so either, values are rounded differently (unfair, inconsistent & devalues heavy skills point investments) or there is a bug. the available CPU is EXACTLY 514.5, it is not in the hundreds place. rounded towards the nearest (or half round up) => 515 rounded away from zero (or half round up) => 515 rounded towards zero (or half round down) => 514 required CPU 514.4625 rounded towards the nearest => 514 rounded away from zero => 515 rounded towards zero => 514 according to your comment required CPU 514.4625, first rounded to 4 significant digits 514.5 and then... rounded towards the nearest => 515 rounded away from zero => 515 rounded towards zero => 514 as you can see, the only scenario where the fit would became invalid is, when the availaible CPU is rounded towards zero and the required is rounded away from zero. but then, the gallente PG is rounded all towards nearest as seen with my fit.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5776	Posted - 2015.01.30 13:20:00 - [9] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: would be awesome if a CPM could post an answer I decided it'd make more sense if a dev answered since I don't know what I'm talking about anyways. :D /CPMresponse CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion 415	Posted - 2015.02.02 03:57:00 - [10] - Quote If it helps I believe a dev (Wolfman?) once long long ago mentioned that 0.5 gets rounded down. So, 0.49 rounds to 0 0.50 rounds to 0 0.51 rounds to 1

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2006	Posted - 2015.02.02 08:36:00 - [11] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: If it helps I believe a dev (Wolfman?) once long long ago mentioned that 0.5 gets rounded down. So, 0.49 rounds to 0 0.50 rounds to 0 0.51 rounds to 1 required CPU is 514.4625, which would get rounded down according to that logic but it isnt, that is the whole point of the post. either values are rounded differently (which is BS because it devalues alot of invested SP) or something is not working correctly.
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1876	Posted - 2015.02.03 02:50:00 - [12] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: If it helps I believe a dev (Wolfman?) once long long ago mentioned that 0.5 gets rounded down. So, 0.49 rounds to 0 0.50 rounds to 0 0.51 rounds to 1 I think the biggest problem is we have 2 different ways of rounding. The first rounding we have is what you described. This is the way values for Maximum CPU and Maximum PG are rounded. The second way of rounding is as follows: 0.44 rounds to 0.4 and then 0 0.45 round to 0.5 and then 1 0.46 rounds to 0.5 and then 1 (EDIT: I should add, I haven't confirmed the completely as I'm still working on the skills to get to this point in testing. It could also be doing the following: 0.44 rounds to 0.4 and then 0 0.45 rounds to 0.4 and then 0 0.46 rounds to 0.5 and then 1) If anything, the values for both dropsuit CPU/PG and weapons/modules/equipment/grenades should round the same. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1876	Posted - 2015.02.03 03:08:00 - [13] - Quote Also, something interesting to note: Assault mk.0 BK-42 Assault Combat Rifle Submachine Gun M1 Locus Grenade Basic Light Damage Modifier Protofits CPU: 65.45 Dust CPU: 65 CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1876	Posted - 2015.02.03 03:30:00 - [14] - Quote I FOUND THE PROBLEM! Jack's EXACT FIT minus 1 module: Assault mk.0 Complex Light Damage Modifier Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender ~~Complex Shield Recharger~~ Complex Armor Repairer Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Shield Regulator Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Six Kin Submachine Gun Core Locus Grenade Wiyrkomi Nanite Injector Protofit CPU: 443.4625 Dust CPU: 443 Everything's OK However, add that Shield Recharger in: Assault mk.0 Complex Light Damage Modifier Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Recharger Complex Armor Repairer Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Ferroscale Plates Complex Shield Regulator Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Six Kin Submachine Gun Core Locus Grenade Wiyrkomi Nanite Injector Protofit CPU: 514.4625 Dust CPU: 515 !!!! Going to do more tests, but I have a feeling short cuts were taken during the CPU reduction of Shield Rechargers and Energizers. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1876	Posted - 2015.02.03 03:36:00 - [15] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Also, something interesting to note: Assault mk.0 BK-42 Assault Combat Rifle Submachine Gun M1 Locus Grenade Basic Light Damage Modifier Protofits CPU: 65.45 Dust CPU: 65 Using this fit again: Assault mk.0 BK-42 Assault Combat Rifle Submachine Gun M1 Locus Grenade Basic Light Damage Modifier Complex Shield Extender Protofit CPU: 136.45 Dust CPU: 137 !!!! CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1876	Posted - 2015.02.03 03:56:00 - [16] - Quote One final time for the lulz! Not even using the Assault suit this time: Logistics mk.0 Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Protofits CPU: 284 Dust CPU: 286!!!!!!!!!!! LOL CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1876	Posted - 2015.02.03 04:09:00 - [17] - Quote Bonus round!: Any suit Basic Shield Recharger Basic Shield Recharger Protofits CPU: 52 Dust CPU: 51 Any suit Basic Shield Recharger Basic Shield Recharger Basic Shield Recharger Basic Shield Recharger Protofits CPU: 104 Dust CPU: 102 Dat math logic. Any suit Complex Shield Energizer Complex Shield Energizer Protofits CPU: 164 Dust CPU: 163 CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 2013	Posted - 2015.02.03 10:25:00 - [18] - Quote Kaze Eyrou you are boss I quickly took a look into the RAW SDE and the CPU requirements of complex shield rechargers are..... Quote: modifier.0.modifierValue71.4 shield energizer is no different in that regard. informative and transparent UI ftw. how can a player even know this without digging deeply into the secrets of dust? either remove the decimal for requirements or show the decimals!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 16567	Posted - 2015.02.05 09:26:00 - [19] - Quote This is because we use hierarchy, so fitting for basic is maybe 25, then ADV is 25*25%, and that value is not rounded to zero. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8432	Posted - 2015.02.05 10:21:00 - [20] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Kaze Eyrou you are boss I quickly took a look into the RAW SDE and the CPU requirements of complex shield rechargers are..... Quote: modifier.0.modifierValue71.4 shield energizer is no different in that regard. informative and transparent UI ftw. how can a player even know this without digging deeply into the secrets of dust? either remove the decimal for requirements or show the decimals! Eehh, removing the decimals would require one of two things to happen, programming wise: Changing all ints to doubles (effectively doubling the amount of memory taken out of the database) Changing all ints to floats (which would take an exorbitant amount of dev time dedicated entirely toward optimization.... which isn't really optimization because floats, while being able to account for decimals, take up the same amount of memory). That's the theory anyway. It's a game of efficiency versus player convenience and they went with efficiency (which is understandable when you stop the think about the costs of allowing these extremely tight fits). Click here for more information: http://dustsearch.com/thread/96217/page/1#14 EDIT: And I'd imagine the reason they don't show the decimals is because it's all being rounded anyway =P Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department? *Founder of AIV*



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