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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.17 14:26:00 -
[91] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote:Currently my go to loadout is:
Assault G-I
Breach Assault Rifle Ion Pistol RD-9 Uplink
PG Booster PG Booster Light Damage Mod
CPU Booster CPU Booster Militia Plate Enhanced Armor Rep Enhanced Armor Rep
I score on average 1000-1500 WP per game and usually can manage a positive K/D.
Frankly that's an excellent performance for a player of your age and SP.
I think your fit is less excellent, though. Let's talk about this.
Four resource boosters is horrifyingly inefficient. I completely understand why you've done this, but there are much much more efficient uses of your slots.
There are a few things that immediately strike me when looking at this fit.
Firstly, your engineering and electronics skills are either zero or low. With your skills at just 3 you should be able to fit almost all of that without any need for either CPU or powergrid boosters. Actually, I'm surprised that you need that many even with 0 levels in either engineering or electronics.
It's possible that you haven't found these engineering/electronics skills that I'm talking about, though, so I'll just take a moment to explain this.
In your dropsuit upgrades tree, after the skill Dropsuit Core Upgrades (which also raises your CPU and PG available at a rate of 1% for both per level) there are the skills Dropsuit Electronics and Dropsuit Engineering. These both require Core Upgrades to be at level 1. If you haven't got this to level 1, it's only 12k for the first level so you should get that ASAP.
Dropsuit Electronics increases the CPU available to your dropsuit by 5% per level. Dropsuit Engineering increases the PG available to your dropsuit by 5% per level.
These are both absolutely excellent skills. They're expensive to get to high levels - being x5 skill multiplier skills they'll take in excess of 1 mil SP each to max - but low levels will be cheap and well worth getting as soon as you possibly can.
This isn't an immediate solution for you if you don't have the SP, though, so let's talk about optimising your fit.
You're using militia plates. Given that you have access to enhanced repairers, that means you have dropsuit armour upgrades to the pre-requisite of 1 and therefore have access to the Armour Plating skill. The first level of this should cost you 18k SP (IIRC). This should be affordable. Get it. Here's why:
A militia plate costs you 18 CPU and 6 PG. A basic plate performs the same, but costs 9 CPU and 3 PG. This is half the resources! In terms of ISK costs it's a negligible difference as well.
Replace the militia plate with a basic plate.
You're using 2 enhanced repairers. You've got plenty of slots available here, so we can do some otherwise weird things in our quest for optimisation.
An enhanced armour repairer repairs at 5 HP/s and costs you 35 CPU and 5 PG. A basic armour repairer repairs at 2.5 HP/s and costs you 20 CPU and 1 PG.
Two basic armour repairers will cost you 40 CPU, 2 PG, and will repair at 5 HP/s. That'll save you 3 PG at the cost of 5 CPU. This can be used to optimise your fit by removing...
I just took a moment to look at your fit here and calculate the best way to optimise this, but something occurred to me. Those fitting mods you're using (the PG and CPU boosters)? They cost resources of the opposite type themselves.
A militia or standard PG booster will give you 8 PG at the cost of 18 or 20 CPU, respectively (sidenote: the militia booster appears to be better than the standard one for some reason).
A basic CPU mod will give you 16% more CPU at the cost of 4 PG. A militia gives 10% for the cost of 4 PG.
If you're using militias, note that the base CPU of the Assault G-I is 169. Consequently, a 10% boost in your CPU gives you 17 CPU for 4 PG.
What this means is you're losing the majority of the fitting resources you gain from your fitting mods to fuel those same fitting mods. At the low ends, you can't really combine the both of these.
According to the fitting tool I'm using: http://www.protofits.com/ - You can actually fit most of those things without using any fitting extenders. If you get engineering/electronics 1, you should be able to remove all of the fitting mods you've put on there. Don't worry - you don't have to fill every slot.
This has gotten somewhat confusing as I've typed this up in a stream of consciousness fashion. Let me summarise:
- Ensure you have engineering and electronics at least to 1, 2 if you can. Make level 3 a future goal, possibly for before armour repairers 5. They're found just after Dropsuit Core Upgrades in the Dropsuit Upgrades tree.
- Get Armour Plating 1. Replace your militia plate with a basic plate.
- Remove all of the fitting mods you've put on there.
- See how much fitting room you have remaining
- Add basic repairers or convert enhanced repairers into two basic repairers to fill the other slots if you can.
I'll tackle the next part of your question in a separate post, as I'm running short on characters here.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.17 15:01:00 -
[92] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote: I have about 500k SP saved up and I'm thinking nanocircuitry next. Thank you so much for the response, that cleared a lot of up. I'm going to build my logi up now. What high and low slot mods would you recommend for logi in the current state of things?
Many thanks.
I'll just add up the SP I recommended spending in the previous post. You might already have some of these things, but I don't know, so I'll include them anyway.
Dropsuit Core Upgrades 1 - 12k SP Dropsuit Engineering 1 - 18k SP Dropsuit Electronics 1 - 18k SP Armour Plating 1 - 18k SP
This totals 66k SP. If you want to take engineering or electronics up further (I recommend doing this soon, if you choose not to do so with your 500k ATM) then you'll have ~430k SP.
Levels 2 and 3 of nanocircuitry will cost 55,950 and 130,590 SP, respectively. This takes you down to 240k SP (or somewhere in that region).
240k SP can take you a fairly long way in terms of low level skills. It's not much when trying to max skills out - if you want to max out nanocircuitry it'll take you another 261,180 and 466,380 SP for the remaining two levels - but it will suffice for, say, taking up both engineering and electronics to 2 (The 2nd level of either of those skills costs 90k SP).
So, the logi.
I'm assuming you haven't picked up dropsuit electronics and therefore haven't gotten any of the scanning skills for which it is a pre-requisite. Thus, your logi won't really be able to act as a passive scan suit (although it certainly can once you get the skills for it) and instead we'll be fitting it much like your assault in terms of the high and low slots.
For this fit I will assume you have acquired both of the dropsuit fitting skills (electronics/engineering) and taken them to level 2.
I will also assume that you elected to get nanocircuitry 3. If you don't, that's fine! You just won't be able to use a couple of equipment items, so you can just substitute them out and use the spare fitting resources elsewhere.
A major problem in this fitting is, again, that R-9 uplink. If you have the logi skill to level 1, you won't really benefit from the logi's ability to reduce equipment fitting costs (which is 5% per level). As a result the major fitting costs on this build come from the equipment. You can substitute it out for another uplink variant or a stable uplink if you want more fitting resources, but the R-9 is a good piece of kit.
This build doesn't fill all the slots. I appreciate the temptation to, but it's simply not viable to do so without better fitting skills and more advanced logi skills. It's also focusing on the survivability of your logi rather than its hitting power. At your level, a 3% damage mod is not nearly as valuable as an extra 90 HP.
This fit is on the knife edge of what'll be possible for you. I'm not actually certain if you can fit it. If not, you can lower something in quality very slightly - either a repairer to a basic (this should be okay on a logi as it has a good inherent repair rate) or you can downgrade the nanite injector to a standard one.
Logistics G-I
(Breach) Assault Rifle
3x Basic Armour Plate 2x Enhanced Armour Repairer
KIN-012 Nanite Injector R-9 Drop Uplink Repair Tool Nanohive
Empty slots are probably going to be a sad necessity for you until you get ADV level dropsuits.
I recommend trying to get those quickly. Unfortunately, it's quite expensive to get them. Its 149,200 SP for the 2nd level of the relevant dropsuit skill and 348,240 for the 3rd level.
If you like being a logi, however... Look at what you can do with them. This isn't assuming much higher skills than what you've got - just the SP spends I laid out at the top of this post and the actual dropsuit skill.
Logistics G/1 Series:
(Breach) Assault Rifle Flux Grenade
Basic Light Damage Modifier Basic Light Damage Modifier Basic Light Damage Modifier
Basic Armour Plate Basic Armour Plate Basic Armour Plate Enhanced Armour Repairer Enhanced Armour Repairer
K-2 Nanohive R-9 Drop Uplink Repair Tool KIN-012 Nanite Injector
You can fill every slot with the best-in-slot stuff you can get at your level, if you get up to these suits. They -are- a bit more expensive, but as a logi with a survivability focused fit you should do alright.
However! This is not all you can fit on a G/1 Series! Even with the fitting skills just at level 2, you have a significant amount of both PG and CPU left over. We're talking 10+ PG and 40 or so CPU here, even with all the slots filled like that. This lets you quite happily upgrade some of the modules you've fitted.
As a result, I would recommend that you get ADV dropsuits before armour repairers 5. Armour repairers 5 should still be the first module skill you max out, but ADV dropsuits are a huge leap forward in performance and they remain affordable. Prototype suits are a whole different kettle of fish but they're some distance in the future.
I hope that answers your question. If there's anything else, again, do feel free to ask.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Daemonn Adima
Y.A.M.A.H No Context
9
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:33:00 -
[93] - Quote
Wow. I can't thank you enough. This has totally helped me understand making loadouts. I was kinda lost, but now I am found!
I'm going to start on dropsuit electronics and engineering. I could purchase level 3 of assault suits also, as I already have it to level 2. But I'm pretty confident in my survivability with the current suits, I feel like I need to be more effective at what I do and the first step seems like getting my fittings down right and having the right equipment.
Thank you!! |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.17 16:35:00 -
[94] - Quote
You could also consider upgrading the rep tool if you find yourself using it a lot.
If you want to 'be more effective at what you do' equipment upgrades are the way to go. Ensuring you can fit them, of course.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Daemonn Adima
Y.A.M.A.H No Context
9
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Posted - 2015.09.17 18:00:00 -
[95] - Quote
Can I upload pictures or only link to them? Cause my confusion has returned. I did what you recommend and did a fresh load out. I also found out I indeed have dropsuit electronics and engineering already both to level 2.
G-I Assault
Breach AR Ion Pistol RD -9 Uplink
Basic Light Damage Mod
Militia Plates Basic Armor Repairer Basic Armor Repairer
That all works fine and dandy but my other loadout had higher repair rate with the PG/CPU boosters. I was able to use 2 enhanced repairers. I also don't have enough extra PG/CPU to add any other mods, so basically this is a step down from my current build. No boosters but less rep. And not enough resources to fit anything else. I'm at 171/190 CPU and 31/35 PG.
I could take something inexpensive but I'm still giving up 5 hp/sec. Darn it. I'm confused again. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.17 18:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote:Can I upload pictures or only link to them? Cause my confusion has returned. I did what you recommend and did a fresh load out. I also found out I indeed have dropsuit electronics and engineering already both to level 2.
G-I Assault
Breach AR Ion Pistol RD -9 Uplink
Basic Light Damage Mod
Militia Plates Basic Armor Repairer Basic Armor Repairer
That all works fine and dandy but my other loadout had higher repair rate with the PG/CPU boosters. I was able to use 2 enhanced repairers. I also don't have enough extra PG/CPU to add any other mods, so basically this is a step down from my current build. No boosters but less rep. And not enough resources to fit anything else. I'm at 171/190 CPU and 31/35 PG.
I could take something inexpensive but I'm still giving up 5 hp/sec. Darn it. I'm confused again.
Hm.
Dropping -all- of the fitting mods may have been a little ambitious. Let's try using fewer, though.
Add 1 militia PG upgrade and one basic CPU enhancer. That should take your PG up to 35/43 and your CPU up to 189/220.
Swap militia plates for basic plates - you should have the SP to get those plates. That'll give you 9 more CPU space and 3 more PG space. That will give you 11 PG and 40 CPU more space, which is enough to take both of your reppers up to enhanced level.
Taking both reppers back up to enhanced will leave you 3 PG and 10 CPU. That's enough to fit a second basic plate.
Your fit ends up looking like this:
G-I Assault
Breach AR Ion Pistol RD -9 Uplink
Basic Light Damage Mod Militia PG upgrade
Basic CPU upgrade Basic Armour Plate Basic Armour Plate Basic Armour Repairer Basic Armour Repairer
This is a 90 HP upgrade over what you were previously using and ought to reduce the overall ISK cost of the fitting.
You can only link to pictures, I'm afraid, but I'm not sure you need pictures tbh. I think I've understood the problem. Perhaps I was overly ambitious in attempting to calculate entire fittings from scratch. There are numerous small passive skills that do things like reduce the fitting cost of weapons by 15-25% or similar things and I think I was taking into account SP that you didn't have. Apologies.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Bradric Banewolf
Standby Retaliation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.18 00:13:00 -
[97] - Quote
Bravo!!! Truly!!!
Love everything about the Gallente race, lore, and gear!
"For the Federation, and freedom!!"
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Daemonn Adima
Y.A.M.A.H No Context
99
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Posted - 2015.09.24 08:26:00 -
[98] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Daemonn Adima wrote:Can I upload pictures or only link to them? Cause my confusion has returned. I did what you recommend and did a fresh load out. I also found out I indeed have dropsuit electronics and engineering already both to level 2.
G-I Assault
Breach AR Ion Pistol RD -9 Uplink
Basic Light Damage Mod
Militia Plates Basic Armor Repairer Basic Armor Repairer
That all works fine and dandy but my other loadout had higher repair rate with the PG/CPU boosters. I was able to use 2 enhanced repairers. I also don't have enough extra PG/CPU to add any other mods, so basically this is a step down from my current build. No boosters but less rep. And not enough resources to fit anything else. I'm at 171/190 CPU and 31/35 PG.
I could take something inexpensive but I'm still giving up 5 hp/sec. Darn it. I'm confused again. Hm. Dropping -all- of the fitting mods may have been a little ambitious. Let's try using fewer, though. Add 1 militia PG upgrade and one basic CPU enhancer. That should take your PG up to 35/43 and your CPU up to 189/220. Swap militia plates for basic plates - you should have the SP to get those plates. That'll give you 9 more CPU space and 3 more PG space. That will give you 11 PG and 40 CPU more space, which is enough to take both of your reppers up to enhanced level. Taking both reppers back up to enhanced will leave you 3 PG and 10 CPU. That's enough to fit a second basic plate. Your fit ends up looking like this: G-I Assault Breach AR Ion Pistol RD -9 Uplink Basic Light Damage Mod Militia PG upgrade Basic CPU upgrade Basic Armour Plate Basic Armour Plate Basic Armour Repairer Basic Armour Repairer This is a 90 HP upgrade over what you were previously using and ought to reduce the overall ISK cost of the fitting. You can only link to pictures, I'm afraid, but I'm not sure you need pictures tbh. I think I've understood the problem. Perhaps I was overly ambitious in attempting to calculate entire fittings from scratch. There are numerous small passive skills that do things like reduce the fitting cost of weapons by 15-25% or similar things and I think I was taking into account SP that you didn't have. Apologies.
You were dead on. It was my lack of passive PG/CPU bonus that restricted me. But I have since upgraded to G/1 series assault suit and also most of my kit to level 3 or 4. Currently running:
Assault G/1
GB-9 AR Ion Pistol Locus Grenade
R-9 Uplink
Light Damage Mod Light Damage Mod Enhanced Light Damage Mod
Enhanced Armor Plate Enhanced Armor Plate Basic Armor Plate Enhanced Armor Repairer Enhanced Armor Repaier
I'm quite pleased with the performance, but recently I've lost lots of isk due to proto suits. I can outperform most in my class, but nearly all my gunfight deaths have been due to higher kit. Sometimes with even just standard weaponry, which surprises me greatly.
I had a huge turn around when I first upgraded to this loadout. I boosted my K/D from .55 to .85 in a week. Granted it's under 2k in both, the gap started closing rapidly. But with the event it seems people are willing to run their proto gear a lot more.
I need to get isk positive again and hopefully this week will see a drop off in proto suits and gear being used. One thing I wanted to ask was what side arm do you suggest that is effective vs armor? My AR pops shields like bubble wrap but sometimes I feel like even despite landing most of my clip there's a lot of ahp left.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 08:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote: You were dead on. It was my lack of passive PG/CPU bonus that restricted me. But I have since upgraded to G/1 series assault suit and also most of my kit to level 3 or 4. Currently running:
Assault G/1
-snip fit for extra characters-
I'm quite pleased with the performance, but recently I've lost lots of isk due to proto suits. I can outperform most in my class, but nearly all my gunfight deaths have been due to higher kit. Sometimes with even just standard weaponry, which surprises me greatly.
I had a huge turn around when I first upgraded to this loadout. I boosted my K/D from .55 to .85 in a week. Granted it's under 2k in both, the gap started closing rapidly. But with the event it seems people are willing to run their proto gear a lot more.
I need to get isk positive again and hopefully this week will see a drop off in proto suits and gear being used. One thing I wanted to ask was what side arm do you suggest that is effective vs armor? My AR pops shields like bubble wrap but sometimes I feel like even despite landing most of my clip there's a lot of ahp left.
The sidearm I'd recommend against armour is the SMG. Honestly, I'd recommend the SMG for general purpose sidearm use in almost every scenario. It's just such a fantastic sidearm - lots of ammo in a clip, good damage, good against armour, high fire rate (useful in a pinch)... Though this guide strictly covered Gallente gear, if you're using gear from other races I would strongly recommend the SMG as your sidearm. IMHO, the ion pistol is not nearly as good. Of course, it might be a little different from what you're used to.
A couple of comments and tips:
You note that you die quickly 'even to standard weapons'. In terms of tier, this is not surprising. The difference between a standard tier weapon and a prototype tier weapon is typically in the region of 10%. With heavy damage modding and proficiency skills this might get up to... 30%? Once you find yourself in a position to start running proto gear, I'd actually suggest running ADV-level weapons with damage mods instead of proto weapons. A single proto weapon can cost as much as 50k ISK - that's possibly worth more than the entire suit you're running there, and will add a significant amount to the cost of a dropsuit.
You also note that you tend to have enemies on high HP when your clip has emptied and you need to switch to your sidearm. Part of this problem may be the breach assault rifle you're using. It has a pretty short clip - the other variants have more damage in the clip, IIRC. If you like the precision the breach gives you, might I recommend you try the burst? It does take some getting used to as it's a burst weapon and not an automatic, but it can fire very quickly and very importantly has a scope. That scope is fantastic for sharpshooting. The burst also packs a very strong punch - it's my personal favourite of the assault rifles at present, as it handles well, can shoot accurately even at longer ranges, and puts down targets almost as quick as a tactical variant. The tactical variant is a lot more difficult to handle, though - it has comparatively hefty recoil and is much slower firing.
If you're really dying to protosuits a lot, bluntly, I suggest running from them. Get used to quickly identifying opponents - scoping over them quickly will tell you their suit type and HP levels. If they're in a protosuit and packing 1000 HP, a direct engagement does not favour you - if you think you're going to be forced into one, back off a bit and try to reposition on them. While you're unlikely to win a head on fight, a flanking engagement is much more likely to work for you. I appreciate that I'm basically telling you the bleeding obvious here, but it's worth stressing, because I see many people who never disengage when they should. You're not required to stick with a fight if it's a foregone conclusion. If there's something to gain from your death in an engagement, fine - buying time in a hard-fought battle over an objective can be worth dying over. But if the need is not urgent, disengage whenever it doesn't look like you can win. It may irritate your opponents - this is probably a good thing!
I'm one of those tryhardy players who basically farms players like you (sorry!). I typically hover around a 5.4 KDR (this isn't always running proto - indeed, your setup there is similar to my standard ADV fit, although mine has a lot more SP put into it) - a major part of this is my willingness to disengage. It's more difficult for you because you have to heavily plate up to get your HP and don't have the same level of regeneration that I do - but staying mobile is extremely important. If you're not doing it already, strafe all the time you're even somewhat likely to get into a fight. Always. If you stand still, you will get instagibbed at ridiculous speed - lots of weapons can easily break 500 DPS and if you're standing still that'll be fully applied to you.
There is a fine line between disengaging and cowardice, though. When playing, think "Can I profitably contribute to this engagement?" If you can get the kill(s) or delay the opponent, the answer is yes. If there's a psychotic space ninja in a protosuit who's been slaughtering people by the dozen and you're alone in front of him, the answer is no.
One last tip - you're using a standard locus grenade. How has that been working out for you? They don't actually hurt much, you see. If you encounter the dreaded Core Locus Grenade you'll see the awesome destructive power of a handheld nuke, but the standard ones do like 300 damage. That's typically not enough to kill things. I recommend either flux or AV grenades.
I've hit the character limit, so I'll stop here, but as always, if you have any questions I'll be here.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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VAHZZ
RabbitGang
9
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ark, you still have yet to tell me of a proper Gallentean Recon Fit for the Assault.
Co-Founder of RabbitGang
"VAHZZ is Forum Jesus" - GJR
But Jesus lives down the street...
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:39:00 -
[101] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:Ark, you still have yet to tell me of a proper Gallentean Recon Fit for the Assault. When did you ask?
Put on a kincat, two ferros, and two reps. You can swap a rep for another ferro/kincat or a cardiac regulator if you want.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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VAHZZ
RabbitGang
9
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:45:00 -
[102] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:VAHZZ wrote:Ark, you still have yet to tell me of a proper Gallentean Recon Fit for the Assault. When did you ask? Put on a kincat, two ferros, and two reps. You can swap a rep for another ferro/kincat or a cardiac regulator if you want. A couple of days ago in the Barbershop of course. I believe it was a Tuesday....I was eating a taco..
ok, now what should i do about the pesky highs? damage mods? or silly range.
Co-Founder of RabbitGang
"VAHZZ is Forum Jesus" - GJR
But Jesus lives down the street...
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Daemonn Adima
Y.A.M.A.H No Context
101
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Posted - 2015.09.24 17:35:00 -
[103] - Quote
Quote:If there's a psychotic space ninja in a protosuit who's been slaughtering people by the dozen and you're alone in front of him, the answer is no.
So true! You know I often get this over zealous attitude that no matter my opponent if I try hard enough, I can beat them. While this attitude isn't particularly losing, the in practice application can be.
I think I'll try the smg, because my toughest challenges are against Caldari and Minmatar suits. And I think I need to try all the ARs extensively before becoming exclusive to one or the other. I love the AR and the Gallente fighting style /philosophy and would love to remain a purist.
Arkena thank you so much for taking the time with my posts. It has helped me immensely and definitely made me more comfortable with understanding the modules, creating load outs and understanding combat dynamics.
My missions today: Test all 4 AR variants across different settings, practice my ion pistol charge shot aiming and test out the smg. I've stocked quite a few of the premade load outs, from matches and lockboxes. So I don't mind burning through those while testing, I've already got a good stockpile of weapons so hopefully I can make some isk today in the testing processes.
Thanks again Arkena! |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 17:38:00 -
[104] - Quote
In the new hotfix the Assault SMG is getting massively buffed. I'm not sure it even needed it in the first place - give that one a go when the hotfix happens!
For now, try the breach SMG. It's the best of them atm, I believe.
Good luck!
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 13:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
Commando gk0: 2 complex light damage modules 2 complex armor repairers Complex armor plate Creodron proximity active scanner
Std Federation burst assault rifle or std breach assault rifle Std Shotgun
Commando gets Proto equivalent weapon at standard fitting and cost. :)
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
One V One Emperor
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