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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
904
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Posted - 2015.01.23 16:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Updated Concept: Maps We want to move from always fighting on Cargo Hubs, so while PC2.0 is being implemented, maps should be more randomly generated and possibly all SI' bonuses set to zero.
This concerns me, as it came out of the left field completely. Please tell me, PLEASE tell me, that when you say you plan to randomly generate district maps, you mean THE SOCKETS, not the actual maps? And you mean randomly generate the sockets ONCE, not between each battle? The district map (not the sockets) being the actual physical layout, the geography, the placement of the different sockets. There are 3 in PC, currently. And I believe the reason those 3 were probably the only ones put in PC to start with still stands. They are quite possibly the only maps in the pub rotation that are actually any good for this sort of competitive play with such small teams, they have enough variation combined with balance to be viable. Also, the main issue. The reason why so many districts are set to Cargo Hubs, is because you didn't make the other types desirable enough in comparison.So, maybe instead of doing away with the relevance of the SI to the actual district, you actually rebalance the different district types and make is not desirable to only hold cargo hubs? There, problem solved, no more having to mostly fight on that one large socket. Though, replacing the gallente research facility in the rotation would probably do almost as much to add variety. Another thing... you make mention of SIs, as in changing them costs points, but you are also saying you plan to make them meaningless by removing their bonuses and even removing the relationship between the SI and the large outpost on the district. Then, what is the point of the different SIs? Just do away with them entirely, if they are no different from each other?
CCP. This proposal looks much better to swallow then the original. Thank you for taking the time to listen and make the change.
The only issue I see is what Zaria mentioned. We need to know what the battle field is that we are going to be fighting on. If it generates randomly and we do not know till we deploy..This will be disastrous to the Field Commanders. We pick our players based on map lay out.
We do reconnaissance missions sometimes just to find out what the lay out will be.
I understand you want us fighting on more then Cargo hubs. My Kdr and pride has been left in the floor many of times in what we call meat grinder fights.
my solution to this woukd be simple and meet both our needs. Don't tell us what the map is....until we attack it. Then...In contract details... Tell us what map it is! In detail. Is it 3 in 2 out cargo hub. Is it a bridge map production facility. That way we know and have 24 hours to plan.
It can be totally random before attacking...and once you attack you now know what you will be fighting on.
win win
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
910
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Posted - 2015.01.23 17:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
bigolenuts wrote:I like it, seems as if you guys (CCP) left the bar and did some work, congrats.
But I will say this; you just created the biggest and most stubborn blue donut this game has ever seen. The PC vets will merge together for spite to prove a point.
Just watch and see.
Again, nice job.
And then when the DUST settles. ..and we have beaten them all up...we will turn on each other and have some fun haha
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
912
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Posted - 2015.01.23 18:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:Roman837 wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Updated Concept: Maps We want to move from always fighting on Cargo Hubs, so while PC2.0 is being implemented, maps should be more randomly generated and possibly all SI' bonuses set to zero.
This concerns me, as it came out of the left field completely. Please tell me, PLEASE tell me, that when you say you plan to randomly generate district maps, you mean THE SOCKETS, not the actual maps? And you mean randomly generate the sockets ONCE, not between each battle? The district map (not the sockets) being the actual physical layout, the geography, the placement of the different sockets. There are 3 in PC, currently. And I believe the reason those 3 were probably the only ones put in PC to start with still stands. They are quite possibly the only maps in the pub rotation that are actually any good for this sort of competitive play with such small teams, they have enough variation combined with balance to be viable. Also, the main issue. The reason why so many districts are set to Cargo Hubs, is because you didn't make the other types desirable enough in comparison.So, maybe instead of doing away with the relevance of the SI to the actual district, you actually rebalance the different district types and make is not desirable to only hold cargo hubs? There, problem solved, no more having to mostly fight on that one large socket. Though, replacing the gallente research facility in the rotation would probably do almost as much to add variety. Another thing... you make mention of SIs, as in changing them costs points, but you are also saying you plan to make them meaningless by removing their bonuses and even removing the relationship between the SI and the large outpost on the district. Then, what is the point of the different SIs? Just do away with them entirely, if they are no different from each other? CCP. This proposal looks much better to swallow then the original. Thank you for taking the time to listen and make the change. The only issue I see is what Zaria mentioned. We need to know what the battle field is that we are going to be fighting on. If it generates randomly and we do not know till we deploy..This will be disastrous to the Field Commanders. We pick our players based on map lay out. We do reconnaissance missions sometimes just to find out what the lay out will be. I understand you want us fighting on more then Cargo hubs. My Kdr and pride has been left in the floor many of times in what we call meat grinder fights. my solution to this woukd be simple and meet both our needs. Don't tell us what the map is....until we attack it. Then...In contract details... Tell us what map it is! In detail. Is it 3 in 2 out cargo hub. Is it a bridge map production facility. That way we know and have 24 hours to plan. It can be totally random before attacking...and once you attack you now know what you will be fighting on. win win Not win-win, but slightly less lose-lose. There will be no value to gathering intel, there will be no way to plan ahead, there will be no way to choose to play to your team's strengths. Also, it eliminates the potential of the defender having the advantage of knowing their land, if the attacker is going in blind attacking for the first time. No, I don't think just the act of attacking should give you the map intel automatically, but there needs to be a way to know the map (if you put in the effort) before loading in to the battle. Otherwise, we are in yet another way making PC fights not very different from pubs. If someone wants to fight on a random, unknown map, they can go deploy into a pub or fw anytime they please. Some of us appreciate and enjoy the planning and tactics involved in thinking ahead, and would appreciate the continued ability to do so.
As we discussed on skype. What I mean is if they do ignore the Intel gathering fact. And do decide to randomize it. Please at least give us a heads up of what map were going into.
Currently. When I have a pc. I have my players get on comms and leave their matches 30 minutes before the battle. If I have stacked timers. ..that time goes up. First thing I do when everyone is on comms....is discuss what map were going into. And talk about who we are up against and what on this map works best against them.
We use strategy. We plan. And we pick our players based on that. Inside city map...less vehicles and less av. More scouts and more heavies.
It makes a huge difference in how we play.
so yes. BEST case scenario is please don't randomized them so we don't know what we're going into. Worst case scenario If you ignore that...Please let us know in detail what map we are going into once we click attack.
I am not saying I can't handle the change up. I have fcd hundreds of pcs. Deployment is the most critical. What this will do is just make me improvise faster.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
916
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Posted - 2015.01.24 13:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
All very interesting suggestions.
My theory. To make raids much more attainable on both side...woukd be to make raids only be 8 attackers and 8 defenders.
Make the map always a 4 point map.
Reasons why. Raids are lightning fast. They hit you hard. The enemy wouldn't form a large army to do a raid. It would be seen. Instead the pick the best of the best. The small elite raiders. And they hit.
The defender...When sensing a battle always prepares. They man the walls and have their army ready to repel. In a raid. It may be tough for every corp...even large corps...more so for the smaller corps to get 16 players to go defend it. 8 tho is very manageable.
Or as we see now in PC(myself as guilty party) included...The 16 defenders will be picked not from your corp...but from who ever you can scramble.
raids need to be small party's. Please make them 8 vs 8. Attacker has the advantage of selecting the best 8 and preparing before they attack. Defender needs the benefit of the doubt that they can field 8 players aswell. 16 may be very tough for small corps.
Other than that..If you successfully defend a raid...your district should be free from being raided for a locked period of time but not locked from being hit with real attack. When a district gets hit by a real attack it should cease all production of goo. This prevents people from locking them selves with alt corps and cashing in on goo.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
917
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Posted - 2015.01.24 14:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
The idea is to promote fights correct? If you want fights. Make raids 8 vs 8. Both teams can manage finding 8. For a raid and 8 for the defense.
Also. Make raids...corp only. Attack and defense. This will promote using your own guys. It will also prevent well established large groups from forming raiding party's based off their elite friends. Make it corp exclusive.
Yes. Defenders with land...will need to recruit. And will stop alt corps from just using alts to raid and bringing in their real corp as ringers.
8 vs 8. Way to go with raids.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
917
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Posted - 2015.01.24 14:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Can raids be a dom or an ambush. It should be about inflicting clone damage. Smash and grab. 8V8 dom or ambush woukd be an exciting change.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
918
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Posted - 2015.01.24 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
bigolenuts wrote:I puked in my mouth when I agreed with Roman but;
8v8 Corp Specific Ambush/Domination
*spits*
Quoted so you can't edit. GG
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
921
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Posted - 2015.01.24 16:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
8v8. My answers final lol.
Would be good for both sides.
Make it 100 clones. If the defender no shows easy penalty. They lose a hundred clones on their districts. This will weakened their defence against a real attack.
Point of raid. Strategic strike.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Reason why I believe raids are suppose to be exclusive to Corp members..... because if not. This is going to be easy for us to form 16 elite players....not launch real attacks for pc..watch weak corps come online. Hit them. Split profit. Don't even launch real attacks ever. Farm on our districts. Or launch vs each other. Because raids more profit. I don't want that. Corp exclusive means we include our corps in our attacks. ..and makes it so weak corps don't get raided by the elites farming them
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Roman837 wrote:8v8. My answers final lol.
Would be good for both sides.
Make it 100 clones. If the defender no shows easy penalty. They lose a hundred clones on their districts. This will weakened their defence against a real attack.
Point of raid. Strategic strike. If you kill the core clones off a district you risk the stakes being far too high for raids. If you want to affect the ownership position of a district launch a full attack. Stopping production and regeneration of the clones/MCC seems to be a pretty good middle ground. Let the attacker choose the size or the raid and match type. Depending on the match the stakes are raised and the rewards are different. Raid - 8 v 8 Ambush - 1x CP Raid - 8 v 8 Dom - 1.5x CP Raid - 8 v 8 Skrim - 2x CP Raid - 16 v 16 Skirm - 3x CP The potentially rewards would scale in a similar fashion as the CP. Steal 10% of Daily Clones Steal 20% of Daily Clones Steal 30% of Daily Clones Steal 50% of Daily Clones
Do you not see the huge issue here. You are forcing the fcs to be online at all times during their districts being online. Fcs control 16 players. With help of squad leaders. This will be a mess to defend vs 16. Unless you are in a very large and elite corp.
But it's very easy for us to form 16 elite players. And watch and wait for districts to hit.
defender has no advantage. 8v8. Corp exclusive. Prevents us farming corps.
trust me. I know. I am not concerned for my corp. Right now if this change is implemented. I will hold 4 districts. And not attack with them. Or attack friends for fun battles. I will dedicate our time to what we will call Raid Farming. We will pillage everyone using 16 elites. The small corps use to be able to counter this. Because they had time to prepare. Now. They won't. They will be slaughtered. I do not want this because I care about the game. This will greatly benefit me.
8V8. Corp exclusive. Limits the noon farming
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:If you make it impossible to profit by using +50% ringers it's win/win. You don't prevent people from playing with friends (or recruiting before accepting).
It doesn't need to be impossible to make profits but if you increase the CP cost of actions then you provide a strong incentive to be in the same corp during corp actions. What I like about CP is that it opens up options like setting up a defense contract with another corp at the cost of CP. I hate no shows as well, but I think if you make a raid cost the defender CP and they keep noshowing they'll have their CP burn out anyways. Maybe if you no show a raid it actually cost you double the CP. This way you don't get directly into high stakes ownership levels, but if a corp vanishes then you eat through their CP. Maybe if you hit 0 CP your districts become unoccupied?
Horrible idea. No. Raids are for resources. Not occupation. District shouldn't be effected.
This is not promoting good fights this is promoting noob farming.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
What is going to happen point blank. Is Planetary conquest will turn into....no conquest. Just launching 200 clones for a fun competitive fight. Then we all form raiding parties and pillage noobs.
Because it will find out fun pc fights. We will farm you.
This is a bad idea. Unless it's 8v8 and corp exclusive. So teams can defend vs us.
We will focus purely on raid ddefences. Ans farm
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Sounds like raids would be a great opportunity to train new FCs then. Also, I do really agree that these raids should HAVE to have an FC available. Your 16 won't be able to be everywhere at once and the stakes aren't extremely high.
You describing elites running amok is exactly why core ownership clones should NOT be affected by a raid.
Hence Corp exclusive. It is imperative. Defends and attacks. Corp exclusive.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Roman837 wrote: Horrible idea. No. Raids are for resources. Not occupation. District shouldn't be effected.
Districts should be affected to the extent that a successful raid interrupts farming operations. If the raiders are beaten back, then back to business-as-usual. Incentives for showing up for the fight.
Farms of resource yes. Clones no
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Roman837 wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Sounds like raids would be a great opportunity to train new FCs then. Also, I do really agree that these raids should HAVE to have an FC available. Your 16 won't be able to be everywhere at once and the stakes aren't extremely high.
You describing elites running amok is exactly why core ownership clones should NOT be affected by a raid. Hence Corp exclusive. It is imperative. Defends and attacks. Corp exclusive. I would have to strongly disagree. I think something like Thor mentioned where it cost more CP to bring in ringers would be fine, but players should be allowed to freely associate even if there is a cost to that. Corps may very well want to bring only potential recruits on a raid to try them out as well as a myriad of other potentials. Corp purity is a much lower priority than the freedom to associate in what's the only real sandbox arena in Dust.
Kane. Roman837 the CEO will thrive on this change. We will farm everyone via raids. My corp will do great given our connections.
Dan the dude who plays on Roman837. Sees this as a bad idea. And will promote huge coalitions of farming. We will fight each other in pc for the thrill of competition. Shake hands..then go to our raiding chat. Check the star map for people outside our "friend zone" and raid them.
Because as you all have pointed out there is no reason for us to go own much land. So why try and take land. When you and your corps can own that land. And through your hard work...fund us.
Sad. But very true
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fellas. These are all great ideas. It's amazing that our I'm out can directly influence a game. Some of you hate me in game. I'm not speaking as I do in game. I want this game to thrive. The changes currently will allow my corp and corps like mine. ..to explode. I truly want to limit that and give you the best advantage.
We are experts at 16 v 16 combat. We are experts at quick decisions and forming teams. We have the connections and net works.
Please limit us. You may have 12 good active players online to defend vs our 16.
Why not make it so you can bring in your 8 best. Making so our 16 elite don't stomp you. Yiu stand a better chance.
Making it corp exclusive gives you an even better chance!
Please head this advice. Or I am not responsible for your hate when we use the mechanics given to us to farm you.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
923
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Roman837 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Roman837 wrote: Horrible idea. No. Raids are for resources. Not occupation. District shouldn't be effected.
Districts should be affected to the extent that a successful raid interrupts farming operations. If the raiders are beaten back, then back to business-as-usual. Incentives for showing up for the fight. Farms of resource yes. Clones no And if the two are one and the same?
I hope they are not. Clones are for combat.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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Roman837
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
944
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Posted - 2015.01.25 03:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Is this going to be retro active just like the loyalty ranks and points? So corps can start at a certain level on the scale? Or are we all starting at zero?
A huge no to CP being used to accept or kick players. And a no the size Kane's ego to CP being drained by people leaving.
Just playing with you Kane. Couldn't think of something else that would represent how much I ment that no.
Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Character Cesar Sousa, CEO of Murphys-Law
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