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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
849
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 11:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Incoming wall of text but I must get on my laptop. My phone won't cut it |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
849
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 12:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Its too bad before the elections for CPM you guys crushed my hopes for my favorite game or else this info already would have been placed into the idea. However here we go.
Regarding Districts in General. What you guys have posted about the Cargo Hub abuse gives CCP a very real chance to fix district type simply by changing some numbers around. Consider this Cargo hub spam is used because it not only gives you an additional defence in case of a loss but it gives you a larger force to send out for attacks. the issue with Cargo Hubs is they produce too many clones. A production facility offers only a 20 clones increase against cargo hubs and holds 150 less. Surface research labs got lost in the mess due to clone attrition being a LOL thing.
Cargo Hubs In my opinion Cargo Hubs should be at the center of your defensive net. They should offer a security blanket at full clones and be a liability when low. Clone production should be reduced to 20 clones a day to prevent the current abuse of cargo hubs but they should also have a maximum Clone Capacity of 600. This allows an attacker to spam attacks to take a cargo hub just based on the fact that it cant replenish fast enough. Making it again a liability when at low clones.Taking into account CCP original idea of attacker clones that are not killed go to the defender's clone count. So if an attack of 200 clones is unsuccessful and 100 remain the district would absorb 50 clones Making big attacks on Cargo Hubs a possible loss for the attacker if unsuccessful. Selling Clones should have a reduced CP cost on Cargo Hubs. Should a corp have nothing but cargo hubs they would suffer from a lack of clone production and be unable to defend in the long run. . Production Facilities Should do just that produce clones. These facilities are weak but can be used to restore lost clones on your cargo hubs. A production rate of 150 clones and a max Capacity of 200 Clones makes them difficult to preserve but invaluable against players attempting to take your Cargo hubs as well as being self sufficient when properly defended. This will allow nice balance for corps to get out of the current Cargo Hubs or nothing mentality. Moving clones to owned districts should have a reduced CP cost. Selling Clones should have an increased CP cost. Because of CP being needed to make value off clones if a corp has nothing but Production facilities 1000's of clones a day could be wasted with no return.
Surface Research Lab For the piece de resistance. Surface Research Labs are the laughing stock or the Eve Universe right now giving no benefits in any way. So how do we fix this? Clone Attrition needs to be a very real threat to corps attempting to attack an enemy district. With the current system i can send an attack (172) from Eoldulf : Mimiror to Almur : Sakulda and arrive with 95 clones. Take into consideration that this is 9 Jumps in the different constellations themselves and 3 warps to other constellations. A movement from say Mimiror to Ennur should be a 20% loss of clones from a non surface research lab (2 jumps) and a similar attack from Mimiror to Meildolf should be a 50% loss of clones 30% from a constellation warp. Those same attacks from a Surface research lab would be cut by 75% and CP cost reduced by 50% so that same attack to Meildolf becomes a loss of 12.5%. This gives massive incentive if you are an aggressive corp that wants to attack your enemy not on your planet or solar system to hold some surface research labs to send attacks off of. If clone attrition actually becomes a thing surface research labs become your attacking hardpoints being the only district you can send a force large enough to truly attack your enemy. Selling clones on surface research labs will have an increased cp cost. With a maximum clone count of 300 and a production value of 60 the district without being reinforced by a production facility can be withered away through even unsuccessful attacks. Holding nothing but SRL will be the least detrimental of the penalties but be penalized by making a lower profit and they are vulnerable to multiple attacks due to clone inefficacy
District Balance Through a proper clone attrition rate we can make a balance for corps that hold multiple districts to have desire in holding different types of districts.Cargo Hubs will be valuable for the extra clone capacity and ability to efficiently generate a profit. Production Facilities though weak are self sufficient but cannot be used as a defense against a siege or for a profit and merely are used to support the defense/offense of your other districts. Surface research labs now become what they were made to do and be your offensive districts. A corp would manage these districts using this new form of currency of CP. So corps that want to make a profit that day will use CP to move clones from a production facility to a cargo hub then sell those clones. A corp that wants to take a district will use CP to launch an attack from their SRL and reinforce using production facilities and trying to hold only one type of district will leave your owned districts vulnerable in some way. This may even remove the need for a randomness for districts as all 3 types of main sockets will be used. I would like to see The maps we see in pubs that aren't in pc used in pc by allowing owners to change the maps using CP. So if you make a SRL you can make the main map socket be caldari or gallente. When you make a production facility you can have the main socket be the Twin towers map we all love or the wide open bridge map or the pipeline map. Cargo hubs could be the current map we have or the underground bunker map. As a defender your biggest asset is knowing the map so you can create a team to best fit that map you are about to play on so please do not remove that asset.
P.S Since i ran out of characters another wall of text inbound. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
850
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 13:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Regarding CP Am very glad you decided to make a new currency as our current one is the reason why the game is as broken as it is. This currency needs to be proportional to amount of districts owned. Say corp A has 10 districts and corp B has 2 districts corp A will have 5x more CP at max then Corp B. I also believe that as this threshold becomes larger the CP generation slows. So now if Corp A has 20 Districts they have a max CP that is greatly superior to corp B that still has only 2 districts but to achieve that max takes not the same amount of effort as reaching corp B needs to reach their max not because its more but because CP generation is lowered. So not only is the cap higher but its more difficult to achieve the cap. This means small elite corps like 0.H wouldn't be able to take over the entire star map because we cant generate the CP required without growing our in corp population. With your check in place we wouldn't be able to lock districts with alt corps because no CP is being generated to send out an attack. As long as CP is implemented with small corps the ability to launch raids multiple times a day if they want to possible and PC corps needing a player base proportional to their districts held we will will see many positive changes in PC.
Regarding Raids
We have been screaming for some type of game mode in which you can have a competitive setting without the high stakes of PC and if done right this may be that mode.
Raid Mechanics The attacker should not need a district to launch an attack from i suppose this is self explanatory but it needs said. Removing that gap gives everyone the opportunity to perform this action. CP cost should be proportional to actually sending an attack to take a district for corps that own a district and be substantially less for corps that do not. This gives an endgame for corps that do not wish to participate in PC but rather be a pirate type corporation. This makes it more difficult for a corp in PC to try to manage raiding with the other CP actions. As much as i want this to be a big battle a raid as opposed to a battle is a small scale event and should be handled as such. 6v6 or 8v8 in a domination type match would be ideal for a raid. Battles should also have no clone limit and play until the MCC is destroyed to allow sides to use as many resources as possible/wanted to achieve victory. A vehicle cap should also be in place of 1 major vehicle HAV/ADS and 1 minor Vehicle LAV/DS. This makes the match much more tactical and prevents a corporation from deploying 6 tanks to hold the one point. A 1 minute warning should be all a corporation receives and this 1 minutes can be within 1 hour of your timer for example 0.H has a district timer set at 01:00 A raid can happen at 00:01-02:01 if the raid is placed at 00:00 or at 2:00. This is a perfect raid style timer. Making your opposition scramble to find people not currently deployed to defend against the raid. The War Barge should also only be 1 minute long. Many may disagree with this short of a warning but a raid should not give you advance warning because with greater then 2 minutes i can get the 6-8 of the best 0.H players into this battle as if we knew it was going to happen the whole time. Even with 2 minutes it will still be relatively easy to field a team to fight those battles. I also believe multiple raids by different corporations on even the same district should be allowed. Doing so would cause those small elite corps like 0uter.Heaven the inability to field the players necessary to prevent all raids from being successful and keep us out of pubs where we destroy the hopes of many players. Since raids cost CP this makes corps that have districts less able to Send Attacks, Sell Clones, Move Clones, Change Timers and (if anyone read my previous thread) Change Map Layout.
Raid Benefits Raids need to have great incentive for the competitive player base not currently in PC to use their CP to do raids. So in light of that statement i believe
A successful Raiding Corporation should receive PC style payouts (ISK and Salvage) AND massively increased chance for random officer gear drops. Should the match result in a no show by the defending corporation there needs to be a severe penalty either through isk or CP I currently don't know how to penalize and need help from the CPM's and CCP to make it worthwhile to at least provide a resistance or for the attackers to stay through a noshow. This further takes competitive players from public matches and gives the new players a chance to love the game.
A successful Raided Corporation will receive NO isk, Enemy Salvage and a Massively increased chance for random officer gear drops. The no isk part is essential as this makes the defending corporation want to be as efficient as possible. If say 0.H gets raided by P.E we will want to attempt to win the match with minimal casualties due to the isk inefficiency possibility. However if officer gear is more circulated we will finally see them used in PC due to the ability to have a reliable way to earn more.
Closing The changes i am seeing are something that should have been done 14 months ago to maintain a large part of the competitive community that has already moved on but nonetheless i am very excited to see CCP implement these changes. Hopefully it can be done very professionaly with minor bugs that can be worked out during maintenance and not requiring massive updates. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
852
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 14:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Tieing CP pool to district amount seems unnecessary and could create some negative results. One of the issues right now is that in many ways whoever has the most districts wins logistically. There is no need to extend that mechanic in CP pools. Attack and Defense power should not be increased with district growth but through player activity to regenerate the pool and by upgrading the Corporate Command. Read my CP proposal it takes your fear out of tiered CP. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
855
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 00:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Radar R4D-47 wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Tieing CP pool to district amount seems unnecessary and could create some negative results. One of the issues right now is that in many ways whoever has the most districts wins logistically. There is no need to extend that mechanic in CP pools. Attack and Defense power should not be increased with district growth but through player activity to regenerate the pool and by upgrading the Corporate Command. Read my CP proposal it takes your fear out of tiered CP. I read through it. The issue is you want the CP pool to be fairly limited so a lot of activity would drain the pool if it's not being actively replenished. Stockpiling CP because you have a lot of districts eliminates the need to be constantly replenishing the pool, which means if a corp has over extended their holdings past their active player base they would still have a large buffer of CP to fall back on which somewhat defeats the purpose of the CP in the first place. No its the opposite Kain if a corp has overextended themselves they won't have CP because it can't actively be gained quickly. Thus having too many districts is a burden on a corp instead of a boon. Holding more land in my proposal gives incentive to those that maintain a larger active player base and penalizies small elite forces like 0.H from attempting to take over too much.
Example if 0.H is hitting this cap however it is implemented either daily weekly monthly or just filling until full (being able to be met multiple times in even the same day) with 4 districts we would want to expand to a point where our corp meets the cap and have a decent buffer but if we expand to much that becomes inefficient. Over expansion could leave us vulnerable to attack since we wouldn't be able to make enough CP to do any PC required action.
Since based on what I have read CP will be more valuable spent then stored I don't believe corps would attempt to stockpile CP unless they are expecting to need it for defenses or if they want to launch a lot of raids all at once. I personally see no true downfall to giving corps incentive to hold land as that is how wars will begin because corps are greedy and want to be famous/rich/powerful. Originally the incentive was isk but it got so broken that we are at our current situation. Since there will be a cap however and the need to actively maintain this currency there cannot be another isk situation. Unfourtantly if there isn't incentive to hold more then 2 districts then PC will not change and continue to be a LOL fest with no wars like early PC had.
In closing this means a PRO style force could be just as effective as a TP/0.H style force. This would also encourage teams like 0.H to allow more players in corp wich hopefully would lead to a larger PC player base because as stated previously the percentage of PC to actual players is stupid low. Give corps a reason to want to take multiple districts and hopefully lead to a more fulfilling PC experience. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
856
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 06:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Raiding corps who don't own land is a bad idea.
How is that a bad idea? Raiding should be accessible by the many and PC by the few or else we are stuck with the current situation of 1% of the playerbase actually performing an endgame mode. Remember that since CP is a factor players will actually have to be apart of a corporation to experience this version of endgame. Raiding will either be the best way to troll or the best way to play dust based on how CCP releases it. As long as CP is something that requires a moderate level of activity to gain any corp should be allowed to launch a raid on district owners. To allow all corps accessibility to endgame content without the fear of and highstakes that comes with being a land owning PC corp.
Raiding to me is a casual competitive way to play dust and PC is the hardcore way to play dust. However since raiding is still competitive it allows a corporation to test their mettle against a PC active corp to not only train their troops but to gauge the talent of their corporation and attempt to breakout on the PC scene instead of raiding.
CCP just needs to make sure holding land gives a large incentive to players or else we will be as stagnant in PC in the future as we are now. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
858
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 09:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Raiding in my opinion should not affect PC except in the case of a no show in which some kind of penalty should be inflicted on the district holder. If you read my post about raiding should those mechanics be used it gives the masses availability to raid a long as they have CP to spend. With attackers having a greater reward then defenders to encourage people to raid and district holders would want to defend to prevent the penalty from affecting them. I would like feedback on what a penalty should be for a no show as that would be the best information Rattati could glean from this thread. Next to a general idea of how the community wants raiding to be. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
861
|
Posted - 2015.01.24 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:Regarding Raids We have been screaming for some type of game mode in which you can have a competitive setting without the high stakes of PC and if done right this may be that mode. Raid MechanicsThe attacker should not need a district to launch an attack from i suppose this is self explanatory but it needs said. Removing that gap gives everyone the opportunity to perform this action. CP cost should be proportional to actually sending an attack to take a district, for corps that own land, and be substantially less for corps that do not. This gives an endgame for corps that do not wish to participate in PC but rather be a pirate type corporation. This makes it more difficult for a corp in PC to try to manage raiding with the other CP actions. As much as i want this to be a big battle a raid, as opposed to a battle, is a small scale event and should be handled as such. 6v6 or 8v8 in a domination type match would be ideal for a raid. Battles should also have no clone limit and play until the MCC is destroyed to allow sides to use as many resources as possible/wanted to achieve victory. A vehicle cap should also be in place of 1 major vehicle HAV/ADS and 1 minor Vehicle LAV/DS. This makes the match much more tactical and prevents a corporation from deploying 6 tanks to hold the one point. A 1 minute warning should be all a corporation receives and this 1 minutes can be within 1 hour of your timer for example 0.H has a district timer set at 01:00 A raid can happen at 00:01-02:01 if the raid is placed at 00:00 or at 2:00. This is a perfect raid style timer. Making your opposition scramble to find people not currently deployed to defend against the raid. The War Barge should also only be 1 minute long. Many may disagree with this short of a warning but a raid should not give you advance warning because with greater then 2 minutes i can get the 6-8 of the best 0.H players into this battle as if we knew it was going to happen the whole time. Even with 2 minutes it will still be relatively easy to field a team to fight those battles. I also believe multiple raids by different corporations on even the same district should be allowed. Doing so would cause those small elite corps like 0uter.Heaven the inability to field the players necessary to prevent all raids from being successful and keep us out of pubs where we destroy the hopes of many players. Since raids cost CP this makes corps that have districts less able to Send Attacks, Sell Clones, Move Clones, Change Timers and (if anyone read my previous thread) Change Map Layout. Raid BenefitsRaids need to have great incentive for the competitive player base not currently in PC to use their CP to do raids. So in light of that statement i believe A successful Raiding Corporation should receive PC style payouts (ISK and Salvage) AND massively increased chance for random officer gear drops. Should the match result in a no show by the defending corporation there needs to be a severe penalty either through isk or CP I currently don't know how to penalize and need help from the CPM's and CCP to make it worthwhile to at least provide a resistance or for the attackers to stay through a noshow. This further takes competitive players from public matches and gives the new players a chance to love the game. A successful Raided Corporation will receive NO isk, Enemy Salvage and a Massively increased chance for random officer gear drops. The no isk part is essential as this makes the defending corporation want to be as efficient as possible. If say 0.H gets raided by P.E we will want to attempt to win the match with minimal casualties due to the isk inefficiency possibility. However if officer gear is more circulated we will finally see them used in PC due to the ability to have a reliable way to earn more.
I know its a wall but a lot of arguments could be settled about time for notice before a raid, reasoning behind size of the raid, incentive to perform a raid and with feedback incentive for corporations to want to actively defend against a raid. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
877
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 11:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
nickmunson wrote:also ccp, think , if you have a standard timer, for those who prime time is different like japans night time is. your forcing them to play american timers, if anything your looking at a possible lawsuit cause no where in your ula does it state that this is a primarily an american time game. the way you have it is fine, it calls for logistics just like on eve, eve people want to hit the russians they have to plan a week or two in advance, alarm clock that, make sure the approriate pilots will be available. this is no different on dust. your just listening to the dumbest qq in game so far to date.and if anything i will be on the foriegners side. because a set default timer forces other to grind while a select group does not have to do a damn thing. you call that balance? the game is balanced timer wise, just not as many foriegn players, and no one is to blame but your company and your advertising ability as well as sonys advertising of your game.do your self a favor save your time , effort and money, and just advertise to get a bigger player base in the regional timers that your lacking player count. like do i seriously have to tell you how to run a company correctly? so what if 65% if the players complain about timers,(all american timers) , to set a default is to single out, to single out people is possible and most likely a lawsuit, i know i would if you had it 12 hour different from when i played, You dont understand at all how this is going to work apparently. PC when it released was a massive land grab with people getting as much land as they could and changing the timers to suit themselves. Luckily at that time we had a playerbase of around 40k so there was a good player base for all regions and time zones. So balance was had with corps attacking corps based on their timers. However we now have a player base of 10k or less. the main players are North American, followed by EU then Asia. The goal is to make timers have a default time for the district to make sure there is always a districts to attack at different time zones. This in theory will allow a broader timer placement instead of our current 00:00-05:00 (117 Districts) and 12:00-13:00 (37) making up 63% of our districts. So the 245 districts will be split evenly between all 23 hours of the day making each hour have 10.7 districts in that hour. If the community lets that shift it shifts gradually based on activity and not by instantaneous transfer.
Example- Nyain San taking a district out of thier timezone and instantly setting it to 12 thus unattainable by defenders to attempt to retaliate. The goal is when the attackers take a district they have logistical issues trying to achieve a timer that suits them. This gives defenders a chance to retake the land. Should the New owner be able to defend the district at this default timer they are rewarded by being allowed to slowly adjust the timer to something more suited to them.
This gives foreigners, as you say, protection against a team that is "alarmclocking" to quickly take the district and change it to something unattainable. Again everyone can still "alarmclock" to take a district but if its a timer that is well out of reach of your corps comfort zone you will have to prepare to get up multiple days in a row to defend till you can spend the cp to get it to a more manageable timer. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
898
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 09:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lavallois Nash wrote:el OPERATOR wrote: some sort of mechanism to whoop a raiders' ass enough that they can't raid for a while. Just like a fat hole in the side of a classical pirate's ship OR lengthy prison time for a contemporary Somali Pirate who's been caught.
Im ok with that. Some corps might risk the chance that there will be a retaliation ,and they might not have enough people online to defend, but thats part of the dynamic. if you initiate a raid on just a "space leasing" raider corp, and they dont show, you get a bunch of their stuff and any corp that suffers a string of losses like that is either going to have to back out or declare bankruptcy. el OPERATOR wrote: I...don't see the monopoly element potential here, outside of typical "blueing up" agreements. Which, btw, is what most any alliance is.
Sounds like we're on the same page with Raider HQ's/WarBarges/CorpHQs etc. Just some reasonable element which allows for an opportunity for raid retribution.
The monopoly potential is if the most powerful corps decide that, hey, lets just sit on districts and collect their benefits, and just do raids as PC fights. And use our combined might to confiscate land from anyone who doesn't comply with the arbitrary raiding system. Its very possible. they might even get a system where they grab a bunch of districts, and then rent them out to small corps interested in raid fights, but then cancel the agreement if they raid at an inopportune time or raid a corp, like a "billboard" corp, that the regulars don't want to see raided. The big corps in Molden Heath...will...put their own interests and bottom lines over those of the game. Thats fine, they are trying to build empires, but that doesn't mean that they should be given leverage over everything. The only leverage these powerful corps should hold is the promise of daily, repeated revenge raids. You know what im saying? Id rather see raiders controlled through use of force, rather than see them controlled though just politics. I fear Molden Heath coming together to exile and ban a very successful raiding corp from raiding by barring their access to land. Thats what I want to prevent. I want raider corps access to be determined by their war effort. If they are always putting up a good fight, they will carve a spot people will have to respect, if they lose their fights, they will lose their ability to continue their war effort and will have to withdraw. But yes, overall, we are in complete agreement that raiders should be vulnerable to being raided themselves, otherwise we have a unbalanced system. You should not go out raiding unless you are aware of the potential backlash from the people you just raided. Our difference of opinion mainly centers on the how this should be done. So your saying you want to see the same 100 or so players control raiding and control PC at the same time. For me personally it wouldn't bother me at all. However your proposal in my honest opinion is completely wrong to the purpose of the inplatation of this system. If CCP wanted the same 100 players to control raiding as we already control PC they would have updated PC only.
Raiding is entry level PC. It is low stakes without reprecution for the new corps trying to see if they have what it takes to play with the big boys. It also allows a semi training ground for these corps. So why would you guys want to put a fear barrier in front of these corps to discourage them from doing any end game at all. No person should be condemned from playing the competitive scene of this game.
The risk of raiders losing is already very high against corps that own a stake in PC why would they want to take that risk of failure on top of, after losing, getting there faces stomped again in some way by the corporation thy already failed to do anything against. Wipe this thought that land owning corps should be able to retaliate against raiders. Not only does it make no sense tactically and militarily speaking but it completely destroys all chances that this new system will be used by many. |
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Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
912
|
Posted - 2015.02.01 08:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote: You're idea limits hits per district, my idea limits hits based on indvidual daily success. To-mae-to,To-mah-toe
Why are you trying to limit a gamemode? This reduces activity server wide. Since Warlords Endgame will revolve around CP why would CCP limit the amount of times someone can raid when we have a limited amount of a resource we have to produce? If 0.H has 2000CP and to raid it cost 200 CP we better be able to use all of our CP to raid if that's what we feel like doing that day.
You all keep forgetting CP is going to be the driving factor of everything. I posted this back on page 5. No one should be limited by mechanics only by a resource. Currently we can PC as much as we want but it costs time and isk. So why should we limit raiding? As long as raiding has a cost to limit its infinite potential then a corp can only raid till that cost can no longer be met.
That being said CCP will make or break the game based off this currency the community knows nothing about. So I hope it is implemented with extreme caution. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
931
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 22:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote: BTW- Every single one of those pillaging groups you describe was killed, dead never to to rob/****/pillage ever again ever, when caught or successfully opposed. Which I also proposed as a possible risk mitigatory element, that losing a raid would disable those raiders' raiding ability for a period.
Right there is why there shouldn't be a way to counter raid. You said it perfectly Every single famous raiding group was very successful until they were famously opposed and destroyed. They got away with so much because no one could/would oppose them. Show up and beat your raiders and they don't raid you again simple as that. |
Radar R4D-47
0uter.Heaven
931
|
Posted - 2015.02.06 22:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
not what I meant. If you crush a team of raiders you really think they will waste their resources on another loss against your corp? |
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