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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6787
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Posted - 2015.01.21 14:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was in a dom match last night. The initial wave of redberries was pretty diverse; I saw a Minmatar logi here, Gallente assault there, Minmatar commando there. It felt like I was fighting a fighting force with some variety.
The fire fights were good. I died a lot. I killed a lot. Good times were had by all.
My squad capped the objective.
Then everything changed. Redberries were either Minmatar assault, Amarr Sentinel, or the occasional Caldari scout. That's it. My squad switched to our higher tiered adv/proto and full proto fittings; didn't do anything to the full proto HMG Amarr sentinels. Minmatar assaults were strafing so hard, and tanked so high, that you felt good just breaking their ******* shields.
I do not want to be forced to dump SP into Amarr sentinel of Minmatar assault just to remain competitive. That is asinine.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6789
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Posted - 2015.01.21 14:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Everyone complaining about minmatar assault strafe speed is a scrub. It is a 5% difference in speed compared to cal/gallente which the eye cannot even notice. It's not that fact that they can strafe faster. It's the fact that they can strafe faster AND fit an above average dual tank. Add to that, when people lag the benefit of strafing is made even more pronounceable.
PRO Gallente Assault eHP: 823 Strafe: 4.5m/s
PRO Minmatar Assault eHP: 1037 Strafe: 4.77m/s
The Minmatar assault boasts 6% faster strafe speed and roughly 20% more eHP. They pack decent shields and armor, which gives them added protection against weapons designed to wreck a specific tanking style. Up against a ScR? Well it's got armor to spare. How about another CR? Well it's got shields too.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6789
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Posted - 2015.01.21 15:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:Wow, ok. How about comparing apples to apples! You got two damage mods and duel armor rep on the gal that' over 200 hp worth you "forgot" to equip! So what was your point again? Within 30 meters that gal would wreck that MinASS Here is a GalAssault with more extenders. 1002 eHP and 4.5m/s strafe. The Minmatar assault still comes out with more eHP and better strafe speed.
Jack McReady wrote:it is actually 5.6% which the eye does not notice. beside that both of your fits arent great. your minmatar fit has low self repair and big shield delays and potentially only ~424,3 base dps if you can actually hit with everything. and your gallente fit does not have 3 complex damage mods, nough said.
your minmatar fit is just pub stomp material and will be crushed by a tripple damage modded gallente with TAC AR any day of the week. I will take almost twice the DPS for only ~20% less hp with better self repair any day. Where do you get that the eye won't notice a faster movement speed? I can damn sure notice Minmatar assaults moving faster than I can pin a reticle on them. I don't have that problem with Caldari, Amarr, or Gallente dropsuits. It's noticeable and I'm a terrible player on my best day.
Also, you still haven't addressed the issue with lag making the "benefits" of strafing even more pronounced. There is a good reason why a lot of latino corps run Minmatar assault.
In regard to my Minmatar assault fitting: the need for local reps is lessened if you run with a squad that has a logi. I do. If your shields are down just run away. You have incredible sprint speeds and stamina regen rates; use them. I don't have a single SP into the Minimatar assault dropsuit command, and I only have CR op IV, yet I go 2 - 3 K/D consistently in my APEX MinAssault. Reiterating that I am a terribad player and I can go 2+ K/D in this thing
In regard to my Gallente assault fitting: Triple stacking damage mods is lawl-worthy. That third mod is giving tiny DPS increases. You will get a better RoI if you fit a shield extender or precision enhancer.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6790
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Posted - 2015.01.21 16:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Where do I get that eye cant notice? I did a next to next comparison ingame there is a noticeable difference, after a few seconds though, a time frame where you already died long ago due to TTK. Sounds interesting. Care to share that comparison that you no doubt captured so that this is a valid point and not just your word against mine?
Jack McReady wrote:Lag is no benefit in a server sided communication layout, your opponent will miss equally if he lags and I never had issues hitting someone fast lag or not. I believe that you believe that
Jack McReady wrote:Even after diminishing returns, the difference between 2 complex mods and 3 is 5% more damage cause it is multiplicative. a TAC AR with 3 complex damage mods does twice the dps compared to the base damage of a CR and the gallente bonus makes it very accurate too. if you think that is lolworthy then there is no hope. Numbers please. I'm tired of being the only one linking protofits to substantiate my points.
First light damage mod: 7% Second: 6.08% Third: 4%
The third damage mod is granting 4% more damage. That's 1% higher than a standard damage mod. You would be much better off having a more durable tank or better scan precision than fitting that third mod unless you are stacking incredibly high alpha weapons like a shotgun, sniper rifle, or PLC.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6795
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Posted - 2015.01.21 16:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:lol I am too poor to get a capture card. why dont you just take a watch and sprint for 3 seconds with both suits yourself So that's a "no" then? Alright. I notice a difference.
Jack McReady wrote: 100% => 7% 86.9% => 6,083 57.1% => 3,997
total damage bonus 3 damage mods = 1.07 * 1.06083 * 1.03997 = 1,180457571357 = ~18% total damage bonus 2 damage mods = 1.07 * 1.06083 = 1,1350881 = ~13,5% net difference 0,045369471357 = ~4,5%
on a TAC AR this is 33 extra DPS pushing it to above twice the DPS your minmatar fit deals.
AR DPS with 3 damage mods: 615 AR DPS with 2 damage mods: 591
Difference: 24 more DPS
Would still rather take the added shielding or scan precision.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6795
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Posted - 2015.01.21 16:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:I like how he keeps saying that 5% is not noticeable by the human eye, yet I can see MinAss's strafing faster than any other suit. Maybe to your eyes is not noticeable. But to mine aren't. We've found the answer: Jack has not trained Eyes Operation V.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6800
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Posted - 2015.01.21 18:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:Your link is wrong Apologies. Was playing around with this fitting to get some DPS numbers for Jack in a previous post. I have returned the fitting to 3x proto extenders.
Bright Steel wrote:Also your numbers don't add up GalASS has 3/5 and MinASS is 4/4 So the galASS has an extra ferroscale for 75hp in place of the MinASS extender that is only 66 And the MinASS has lower base hp So please link the right fitting or you case will be dismissed due to falsified evidence With the corrected fitting...
Gallente assault eHP: 1002 Minmatar assault eHP: 1037
And the Minimatar assault has a faster walk/strafe/sprint speed.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6800
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Posted - 2015.01.21 18:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:dude, TACTICAL AR, not the regular why someone would fit the regular AR over the TAC on the gallente assault is beyond my understanding. more dps, more range and the accuracy boost from gallente assault bonus turns it into death impersonate Because full-auto weapons hit more often than single shot semi-auto weapons when you are spraying and praying at a matrix dodging MinAssault
Jack McReady wrote:I found your problem: lack of skill V. consider a respec and git gud. Lack of Skill isn't a skill. That would be silly to have a skill to indicate a lack of skill. I will never "git gud". It's against my very nature. I enjoy my shitawfulness game, thank you
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6800
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Posted - 2015.01.21 18:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:If you think that 5% difference in speed is game breaking then you have issues. Jack, just the strafe speed alone is not game breaking. There is more at work here that just Min strafe speed > everyone else. It's a combination of strafe speed, dual tanking, Minmatar CR being a beast vs. armor metagame, hit detection being a bit... finicky at times, Minmatar assault's high sprint speed, and so on.
Now, the answer is not to nerf the Minmatar assault's strafe speed. I think it probably doesn't need a straight reduction. Instead, CCP reducing lag and improving hit detection is a better answer. It effects the entire game in a positive way, not just punishing the MinAssault for CCP having issues with their servers.
Jack McReady wrote:stop being funny, it demotivates me dust is serious! We are having spirited, passionate debates about how a brown jumpsuit crabwalks faster than all the other jumpsuits... this was never a serious conversation
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6801
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Posted - 2015.01.21 18:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:well that is an entirely different problem. I just see "OP STRAFE, PLZ NERF!" everywhere and it makes me sick. I have even once read someone claiming heavy strafe is broken... Well, Minmatar sentinels do dance like a gorilla playing DDR, but nothing like some of the medium or light dropsuits. Even if they do little strafe dances I still manage to hit them, so I don't view that as a huge problem.
Bright Steel wrote:What's in the lows? Please link galASS with all extenders high and ONE rep low with rest ferroscale It will end up with more eHP than the Minmatar, and not capitalize on the Gallente's armor repair tanking style. It would be same as putting an armor plate on the Minmatar assault.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6801
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:I just got a covenant calASS and it wiggles pretty good to, because of no plates.... Most of the assaults can wiggle strafe well, except the Amarr, if they don't fit armor plates. The Minmatar assault is just better at it.
And I'll point you to at one of my replies to Jack, the Minmatar's strafe speed is viewed as god-mode because of a host of other variables. The top ones being hit detection and dual tanking prevalence. If we had ways of fixing the lag and hit detection then we probably won't notice the Minmatar assault's crazy I-just-got-star-power-Mario levels of invulnerability.
There is nothing more frustrating that emptying a clip into a MinAssault, seeing his shields flare and flash the entire time, and him taking maybe 5% shield damage.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6803
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:That MinFit is bad, but I'll bite. It's an eHP fitting.
Atiim wrote:That MinAssault only has an extra 214 HP and .28m/s strafe speed over the Gallente, which is insignificant. Not to mention that it has horrible regen for both of it's tanks and it's Armor HP isn't that great either. Couple that with the lack of a Grenade or EQ and you have a terrible suit which isn't practical in any situation.
In a real 1v1, those shields would be dropped almost instantly by the Duvolle AR and with a 10s delay it won't be getting them back. Since it only has 490 Armor the Gallente Assault would have the option to either finish it off with a Grenade or he could just keep firing for about 1 more second and it's dead.
The MinAssault would also be firing, but even with it's +15% Armor Dmg it won't compete with the Gallente's 900 DPS. It also won't have the option to run to cover in time as it's too slow and unlike the Gallente it won't be able to use a Grenade to lower the Gallente's eHP to gain the upper hand, should things start going south. In a perfect, lagless Dust match with accurate hit detection and both owner's PS3's modding for reduced heat problems you are probably right. Since we don't live in that wonderful world right now...
P.S. - I posted an eHP Gallente assault without a grenade and equipment as well.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
6803
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Posted - 2015.01.21 19:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:I have mated with my controller try to do the wiggle dance and most times I move slow as hell but there is a sweet spot were you start almost sprinting hole wiggling. From my understanding m/k do this much better/easier but it can be done by skilled "wigglers". I don't know about this. I've seen other dropsuits strafe dance, but the MinAssault does it 500% better. It reminds me of the Caldari scouts a while ago, to be honest. Shield flare, constant movement, "Press X to call for help".
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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