DUST Search - Petition to Make Scouts dual sidearm

TritusX wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

IMHO Scouts should have one light weapon slot. This would force them to commit to their role.

Something just really needs to be done about the fact that a person in a scout suit can run multiple styles without ever changing suits. Currently a cloaked shotgun scout with an SMG is free to switch from stealth shotgunning to strafe spray and praying instantly and even carry his own ammo. Why is it that everyone went crazy over slayer logis being able to run multiple styles and excel at all of them yet scouts have experienced the same thing while at times also being far more OP than the slayer logi ever was?

Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three.

Ew. What about poor Minja? What happens when said frame runs into enemy when enemy decides to check his six? Said scout will be dead. A full Proto Minmatar Scout even with a Light Weapon and Nova Knives will die fast. Shield tank? Yeah, to get an EHP of 300. Armor tank? Can't run with plates. Now you're forcing Minja's to either run Nova Knives by themselves or a random gun. I would like you to try to run Nova Knives by themselves.

Shotgunners and SMG is not stealth shotgunning to spray and pray. If a shotgunner misses, the enemy will immediately whip around, backpedal, and fire with whatever weapon. And if you were stealth tanking, you're dead.

The SMG is not a long range weapon that transforms a stealth shotgun into a assault. A stealth shotgunner has very low EHP and with an SMG he's better off running away. Scouts are squishy. It's not a complete change of roles. He still needs stealth to use the SMG effectively if he stealth tanks. If armor tanked and shield tanked, he might as well run a good Light Weapon and Sidearm.

Thus, scouts can't change roles with a swap of a weapon. They need to hit up a supply depot somewhere to change.

Counter? Counter to scout is simple. If he is tanking, back up, and fire and strafe. If he is strafing, toss a grenade at the ground and get him to go away. Use area denial weapons like flaylocks and mass drivers to keep them away. There are many counters to scouts.

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Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 284	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:48:00 - [1] - Quote Maybe I am just terrible with light weapons or maybe using them makes me play like an assault even though I am in a scout suit but I dont use them at all its either flaylock bolt pistol scrambler pistol ion pistol paired with a nova knife ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Kuruld Sengar Y.A.M.A.H 163	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:51:00 - [2] - Quote /signed
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3732	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:54:00 - [3] - Quote Why? Situational awareness also known as passive scan. Minmatar omni-merc
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 378	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:57:00 - [4] - Quote You are completely free already to equip two sidearms if you wish "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
H0riz0n Unlimit Dead Man's Game 328	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:57:00 - [5] - Quote And what about sentinel with light weapon? The KTM DuKe lives here, send a message after the "beep".One of the few vehiculist remained in dust 514
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 284	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:01:00 - [6] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: You are completely free already to equip two sidearms if you wish Damage mods only apply to one of the two weapons if I am correct ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Ironyimation Inception Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 227	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:03:00 - [7] - Quote Minmatar Assault X2 Complex kinkats X1 Shotgun ??? Profit! Closed Beta Veteran Sadistic Asshat Professional Tear Miner
Middas Betancore Mantodea MC 378	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:06:00 - [8] - Quote It should apply to both as both weapons are classified as sidearms within the games code, but since I cannot see the code I cannot confirm this "Deploy the gas, we'll burn what's left"- Redacted
Ironyimation Inception Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 227	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:08:00 - [9] - Quote Middas Betancore wrote: It should apply to both as both weapons are classified as sidearms within the games code, but since I cannot see the code I cannot confirm this Damage mods apply the bonus damage to the weapon, not the slot. I put a Thales on my heavy frame and got bonus damage through light weapons modifications. Closed Beta Veteran Sadistic Asshat Professional Tear Miner
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 617	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:11:00 - [10] - Quote Here we are just throwing ideas around without any logic involved. Again. Give me one legitimate reason why a scout shouldn't be able to carry a light weapon. Note: because I don't like it isn't a valid reason. Robin Williams endorses this corp

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1803	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:21:00 - [11] - Quote IMHO Scouts should have one light weapon slot. This would force them to commit to their role. Something just really needs to be done about the fact that a person in a scout suit can run multiple styles without ever changing suits. Currently a cloaked shotgun scout with an SMG is free to switch from stealth shotgunning to strafe spray and praying instantly and even carry his own ammo. Why is it that everyone went crazy over slayer logis being able to run multiple styles and excel at all of them yet scouts have experienced the same thing while at times also being far more OP than the slayer logi ever was? Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three.
DozersMouse XIII Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 921	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:23:00 - [12] - Quote wtf "I had no idea you could milk a cat." "Oh yeah, you can milk anything with nipples."
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 618	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:25:00 - [13] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three. Two words, Mass driver Robin Williams endorses this corp
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1804	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:29:00 - [14] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three. Two words, Mass driver To counter a suit that is spammed everywhere people should only have 1 choice in weapon? Lets tell AV users they can only user swarms while tankers can switch between blaster and rail turrets on the fly.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7172	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:31:00 - [15] - Quote No. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 620	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:34:00 - [16] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: robin williams' ghost wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three. Two words, Mass driver To counter a suit that is spammed everywhere people should only have 1 choice in weapon? Lets tell AV users they can only user swarms while tankers can switch between blaster and rail turrets on the fly. No, you're right, no suit should have only 1 counter. The hmg is still an excellent counter. Even when shotties get the first hit on me I still usually have enough time to spin around and light him up. I also kill my fair share of scouts with an ACR or SMG, just not those pesky cal scouts. Robin Williams endorses this corp
Dreis Shadowweaver T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1748	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:37:00 - [17] - Quote I would have been happy making scouts dual-sidearmed before the nerfs. Not now, however. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 R3KT.
Ku Shala The Generals 1141	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:43:00 - [18] - Quote no thank-you light frames were originally sniper role. how would you fit a sniper or are you going to make that a sidearm? *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Tiger Style
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 36	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:48:00 - [19] - Quote If you like to play with two sidearms, great. Why should I care or be forced to do it. you are full of dumb, pray to jebus for more smart.
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 621	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:48:00 - [20] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: no thank-you light frames were originally sniper role. how would you fit a sniper or are you going to make that a sidearm? Yeah, make snipers sidearms so I can put one on my sentinel and when the hmg doesn't reach I break out the sniper! Great idea! Not. Robin Williams endorses this corp

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1839	Posted - 2015.01.20 16:53:00 - [21] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: The hmg is still an excellent counter. Even when shotties get the first hit on me I still usually have enough time to spin around and light him up. Sounds like a balance problem. You've been flanked and outplayed by a supposed counter. At the very best, your odds should be below 50:50.
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 626	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:21:00 - [22] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: robin williams' ghost wrote: The hmg is still an excellent counter. Even when shotties get the first hit on me I still usually have enough time to spin around and light him up. Sounds like a balance problem. You've been flanked and outplayed by a supposed counter. At the very best, your odds should be below 50:50. Well it depends, if it's a proto scout I'm good as dead. Most scouts in pubs that I see are bums and are easily killed. I'm not talking about the legit bad ass scouts out there. Robin Williams endorses this corp
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1804	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:50:00 - [23] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: deezy dabest wrote: robin williams' ghost wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three. Two words, Mass driver To counter a suit that is spammed everywhere people should only have 1 choice in weapon? Lets tell AV users they can only user swarms while tankers can switch between blaster and rail turrets on the fly. No, you're right, no suit should have only 1 counter. The hmg is still an excellent counter. Even when shotties get the first hit on me I still usually have enough time to spin around and light him up. I also kill my fair share of scouts with an ACR or SMG, just not those pesky cal scouts. All mainly close counters but yes those are somewhat viable. On open land, which there is a lot of in this game, the scout can easily be king and then it can still go steam roll almost anything but a heavy in CQC using a SMG without changing fittings. This is an example of the issue I have. If you want to be the best in CQC you should have to give up the ability to be the best in mid ranged combat and vice versa. In the current enviroment that is simply far from the case. Between strafing ability giving an advantage even with a lesser weapon, 2 equipment slots, and extreme visibility something has got to give. I hope this clarifies my argument towards only one light weapon slot. I feel like this is the easiest and most balancing thing that could be done to the scout without over nerfing it or really hurting the true scout who fits his suit to a single role and capitalizes on his advantages.
Feldt-Grace Anaheim Electronics Manufacture Company 67	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:53:00 - [24] - Quote SMG & Boltpistol~ yay underpowerd~ TRANS-AM! Gundam, DUST and more Gameplays
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 663	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:03:00 - [25] - Quote Is killing something with 300 ehp so hard that you have to take away their ability to fight back? Have you considered a career in costumed aggression?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2918	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:12:00 - [26] - Quote I regularly run a dual sidearm scout for the lolz. However, I think it is too much of a nerf to a class that's been hit hard already.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2849	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:39:00 - [27] - Quote Lol this thread. Also no. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Vesperz Algintal Core Gallente Federation 199	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:28:00 - [28] - Quote No, shut up. "Live by honor, kill by stealth." Gal Scout since 1.0, Min Scout since 1.1
noob cavman And the ButtPirates 2001	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:33:00 - [29] - Quote Well at least cores are still grenade I want to be a caveman! Ccp: LEGION Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Full steam ahead into the enemies booty yarrr.
Ku Shala The Generals 1142	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:34:00 - [30] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: Ku Shala wrote: no thank-you light frames were originally sniper role. how would you fit a sniper or are you going to make that a sidearm? Yeah, make snipers sidearms so I can put one on my sentinel and when the hmg doesn't reach I break out the sniper! Great idea! Not. shakes head that was sarcasm *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Tiger Style

Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 285	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:29:00 - [31] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: robin williams' ghost wrote: deezy dabest wrote: robin williams' ghost wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three. Two words, Mass driver To counter a suit that is spammed everywhere people should only have 1 choice in weapon? Lets tell AV users they can only user swarms while tankers can switch between blaster and rail turrets on the fly. No, you're right, no suit should have only 1 counter. The hmg is still an excellent counter. Even when shotties get the first hit on me I still usually have enough time to spin around and light him up. I also kill my fair share of scouts with an ACR or SMG, just not those pesky cal scouts. All mainly close counters but yes those are somewhat viable. On open land, which there is a lot of in this game, the scout can easily be king and then it can still go steam roll almost anything but a heavy in CQC using a SMG without changing fittings. This is an example of the issue I have. If you want to be the best in CQC you should have to give up the ability to be the best in mid ranged combat and vice versa. In the current enviroment that is simply far from the case. Between strafing ability giving an advantage even with a lesser weapon, 2 equipment slots, and extreme visibility something has got to give. I hope this clarifies my argument towards only one light weapon slot. I feel like this is the easiest and most balancing thing that could be done to the scout without over nerfing it or really hurting the true scout who fits his suit to a single role and capitalizes on his advantages. You are asking for a light logi which cannot kill anyone I am asking for a light commando. I think I make a cooler argument haha ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 7298	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:33:00 - [32] - Quote No. I also only use side arms, but that doesn't mean I think everyone else should have to as well. Sniper scouts are legit (its what I started the game as), as are PLC scouts, Shotgun scouts, AV Swarm Scouts, etc. So just no. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
BLOOD Ruler Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 820	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:19:00 - [33] - Quote Sign... but make sniper rifle a sidearm even though we all know its a light. Feel The Burning Pain Of My Knives While Your Skull And Mind Is Wrecked By My Pistol.
Khulmach Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 93	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:20:00 - [34] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: Sign... but make sniper rifle a sidearm even though we all know its a light. Sign and agre with Blood. Darkness,Evil,Hatred,Even Fear My Ally While The Light Taughts,Mocks,and Burns Me.I Have No Side But The Side I Choose.
sir RAVEN WING Amathophobic Nightmare 2694	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:29:00 - [35] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: no thank-you light frames were originally sniper role. how would you fit a sniper or are you going to make that a sidearm? Best reason right here. Scout were the original sniper, and some of us keep that tradition alive. CCP wants commandos to be snipers now though... "Fuck Your Proto" - Random words I'm not afraid of death, my corporation is.
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 288	Posted - 2015.01.20 23:48:00 - [36] - Quote If sidearm damage mods can affect both sidearms used in a scout suit then I am golden. Its fun shooting and sending strafers flying . Just want both my weapons to benefit from the damage mods. Probably going to use triple damage mods on my mk0 MUAHAHAHA. Romulus I am coming for you ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
TritusX PH4NT0M5 126	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:03:00 - [37] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: IMHO Scouts should have one light weapon slot. This would force them to commit to their role. Something just really needs to be done about the fact that a person in a scout suit can run multiple styles without ever changing suits. Currently a cloaked shotgun scout with an SMG is free to switch from stealth shotgunning to strafe spray and praying instantly and even carry his own ammo. Why is it that everyone went crazy over slayer logis being able to run multiple styles and excel at all of them yet scouts have experienced the same thing while at times also being far more OP than the slayer logi ever was? Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three. Ew. What about poor Minja? What happens when said frame runs into enemy when enemy decides to check his six? Said scout will be dead. A full Proto Minmatar Scout even with a Light Weapon and Nova Knives will die fast. Shield tank? Yeah, to get an EHP of 300. Armor tank? Can't run with plates. Now you're forcing Minja's to either run Nova Knives by themselves or a random gun. I would like you to try to run Nova Knives by themselves. Shotgunners and SMG is not stealth shotgunning to spray and pray. If a shotgunner misses, the enemy will immediately whip around, backpedal, and fire with whatever weapon. And if you were stealth tanking, you're dead. The SMG is not a long range weapon that transforms a stealth shotgun into a assault. A stealth shotgunner has very low EHP and with an SMG he's better off running away. Scouts are squishy. It's not a complete change of roles. He still needs stealth to use the SMG effectively if he stealth tanks. If armor tanked and shield tanked, he might as well run a good Light Weapon and Sidearm. Thus, scouts can't change roles with a swap of a weapon. They need to hit up a supply depot somewhere to change. Counter? Counter to scout is simple. If he is tanking, back up, and fire and strafe. If he is strafing, toss a grenade at the ground and get him to go away. Use area denial weapons like flaylocks and mass drivers to keep them away. There are many counters to scouts. Believe in RUST Don't hate the DUST lol
xavier zor Rogue Instincts 443	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:06:00 - [38] - Quote Ironyimation Inception wrote: Minmatar Assault X2 Complex kinkats X1 Shotgun ??? Profit! the 2nd last step is you are classed a scrub, and a FotM noob for this fit Official Ishokune supporter Knifed duna2002's tank, then the mercenary himself
Starlight Burner ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 85	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:14:00 - [39] - Quote Signed in agreement. x[uStarlight Burner[/u] Thank god for CCP Rattati!! Rogue Relics is my home away from home.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2463	Posted - 2015.01.21 00:17:00 - [40] - Quote No. Scout have the right to fufill any role. As cool as a IshuKone Assault SMG in both hands is, still a no. Recon is an Art PSN Sil4ntChaozz/Protofits SilentChaozz WERE NOT EVEN RELATED!!

Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 289	Posted - 2015.01.21 03:43:00 - [41] - Quote TritusX wrote: deezy dabest wrote: IMHO Scouts should have one light weapon slot. This would force them to commit to their role. Something just really needs to be done about the fact that a person in a scout suit can run multiple styles without ever changing suits. Currently a cloaked shotgun scout with an SMG is free to switch from stealth shotgunning to strafe spray and praying instantly and even carry his own ammo. Why is it that everyone went crazy over slayer logis being able to run multiple styles and excel at all of them yet scouts have experienced the same thing while at times also being far more OP than the slayer logi ever was? Every suit is meant to have a counter but how do you counter someone with one suit when they have the ability of two or three. Ew. What about poor Minja? What happens when said frame runs into enemy when enemy decides to check his six? Said scout will be dead. A full Proto Minmatar Scout even with a Light Weapon and Nova Knives will die fast. Shield tank? Yeah, to get an EHP of 300. Armor tank? Can't run with plates. Now you're forcing Minja's to either run Nova Knives by themselves or a random gun. I would like you to try to run Nova Knives by themselves. Shotgunners and SMG is not stealth shotgunning to spray and pray. If a shotgunner misses, the enemy will immediately whip around, backpedal, and fire with whatever weapon. And if you were stealth tanking, you're dead. The SMG is not a long range weapon that transforms a stealth shotgun into a assault. A stealth shotgunner has very low EHP and with an SMG he's better off running away. Scouts are squishy. It's not a complete change of roles. He still needs stealth to use the SMG effectively if he stealth tanks. If armor tanked and shield tanked, he might as well run a good Light Weapon and Sidearm. Thus, scouts can't change roles with a swap of a weapon. They need to hit up a supply depot somewhere to change. Counter? Counter to scout is simple. If he is tanking, back up, and fire and strafe. If he is strafing, toss a grenade at the ground and get him to go away. Use area denial weapons like flaylocks and mass drivers to keep them away. There are many counters to scouts. I was loving your post until I saw the word : "strafe". I have ran just a nova knife and its a lot of fun but most people think scouts are over powered because of strafing or modded controllers. I kill heavies with a 200eHP standard scout with only standard weapons, I kill full proto sentinels too unless I am unlucky but non scouts are screwed before I started playing as a scout I suffered too. I have missed killing an assault at point blank range in a tight space with a heavy machine gun because he was strafing so fast that bullets dont register. Maybe your definition of strafe is different but to those who are not playing as scouts and playing against others who use model controllers or exploits, then your post is pretty disappointing....... ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 129	Posted - 2015.01.21 05:41:00 - [42] - Quote I thought this idea was shot down months ago? Here and here and here. I think this post still pretty much sums up the idea (the idea in the thread this post was taken from included making a shotgun a sidearm): Atiim wrote: Or, you could address the problems causing the Scouts to outperform other suits as opposed to making a change that is not only unnecessary, but an awful idea for reasons stated in the last time a "sidearm only" nerf was suggested. Lets look at all of the problems that would be addressed: Scouts w/Combat Rifles Now lets look at all the unnecessary playstyles that would be removed here: Scout w/Plasma Cannon Scout w/Mass Driver Scout w/Sniper Rifle Scout w/Plasma Rifle Scout w/Laser Rifle Scout w/[Insert anything other than Combat Rifle here] Moving the shotgun would pretty much equate to every Medium Frame and their mothers, brothers, grandmothers, and next door neighbors carrying Shotguns in their Sidearm slot. This is bad because it would give suits capable of moving over 7m/s incredible ganking power with no actual sacrifice. (Just picture a Six Kin ACR with a CreoDron SG at 7.5m/s and 500HP of shields). The real problems with Light/Scout Frames: Possible eHP ceiling is too high No firing delay on clacks Lack of incentive to use Assault Frames Now tell me, which problem(s) would be addressed by revoking their Light Weapon Slot?
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 289	Posted - 2015.01.21 14:03:00 - [43] - Quote Like I said I was thinking 2 sidearms would be a great idea as I dont use light weapons and would like for my damage mods to work with both weapons. I still havent gotten confirmation that sidearm damage mod works on a sidearm placed in the light weapon slot. And I think that even if shotguns are sidearms the high fitting cost will turn the suit into a squishy suit ISK Weekly Lottery Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15161	Posted - 2015.01.21 14:35:00 - [44] - Quote Timtron Victory wrote: Middas Betancore wrote: You are completely free already to equip two sidearms if you wish Damage mods only apply to one of the two weapons if I am correct They apply to all weapons of the same type. Should you choose to run dual sidearms the DMs will effect both of them, regardless of which weapon slot they're in. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND


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