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xavier zor Rogue Instincts 429	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:22:00 - [1] - Quote I have noticed an increase in swarm launcher threads related to dropships, i just thought of a grand idea! Since in real life missiles have a travel range and a certain amount of fuel, why not change the lock-on range and travel time between the tiers? E.G militia can lock on up to 150 metres, travel 250 metres whereas prototype swarm launchers can do double what militia does? Official Ishokune supporter Knifed duna2002's tank, then the mercenary himself
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 689	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:38:00 - [2] - Quote Or leave them how they are and make vehicles better.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:54:00 - [3] - Quote 1. How about injecting some skill and more importantly aim into the SL
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1932	Posted - 2015.01.20 13:59:00 - [4] - Quote xavier zor wrote: I have noticed an increase in swarm launcher threads related to dropships, i just thought of a grand idea! Since in real life missiles have a travel range and a certain amount of fuel, why not change the lock-on range and travel time between the tiers? E.G militia can lock on up to 150 metres, travel 250 metres whereas prototype swarm launchers can do double what militia does? The problem is largely that it's way too easy to get too many volleys of incredibly high damage swarms in the air, too fast before a pilot can react. Swarms are overperforming in terms of dps, alpha damage and ease of use, massively beating out forges and plasma cannons in almost all aspects. This is compounded with commando suits reload bonus, and the damage bonus minmatar (shouldn't) get to swarms. Swarms probably need their locking time increased and that would make them considerably more balanced. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15142	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:24:00 - [5] - Quote So basically make the Swarm Launcher's progression through tiers broken? I fail to see what this proposal would do beyond making the lower tiered SLs underperform even more than they already do. MINA Longstrike wrote: The problem is largely that it's way too easy to get too many volleys of incredibly high damage swarms in the air, too fast before a pilot can react. Swarms are overperforming in terms of dps, alpha damage and ease of use, massively beating out forges and plasma cannons in almost all aspects. This is compounded with commando suits reload bonus, and the damage bonus minmatar (shouldn't) get to swarms. Confirmed for not knowing what their talking about. Swarms "massively beat out Forges in almost all aspects" yet they have only 50% of the range, slightly lower DPS, require a direct FOV to hit, slower projectile speed, and can't attack Infantry. The fact that you mentioned PLCs is appalling, of course it's going to under-perform when compared to AV weapons which aren't terrible. The Commando's Damage bonus has no effect on the Swarm Launchers TTK (as confirmed here), so removing it won't do anything to cater to nerf Swarms campaign. As for not being able to react in time, the average human reacts at .215s and yet it takes (at least) 2.2s to launch 2 volleys, giving you ample time to react. MINA Longstrike wrote: Swarms probably need their locking time increased and that would make them considerably more balanced. "Considerably more balanced" or objectively inferior? Not that the latter doesn't mean the former to Pilots but stating your actual intentions would save both of us a lot of time. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2282	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:31:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: So basically make the Swarm Launcher's progression through tiers broken? I fail to see what this proposal would do beyond making the lower tiered SLs underperform even more than they already do. MINA Longstrike wrote: The problem is largely that it's way too easy to get too many volleys of incredibly high damage swarms in the air, too fast before a pilot can react. Swarms are overperforming in terms of dps, alpha damage and ease of use, massively beating out forges and plasma cannons in almost all aspects. This is compounded with commando suits reload bonus, and the damage bonus minmatar (shouldn't) get to swarms. Confirmed for not knowing what their talking about. Swarms "massively beat out Forges in almost all aspects" yet they have only 50% of the range, slightly lower DPS, require a direct FOV to hit, slower projectile speed, and can't attack Infantry. The fact that you mentioned PLCs is appalling, of course it's going to under-perform when compared to AV weapons which aren't terrible. The Commando's Damage bonus has no effect on the Swarm Launchers TTK (as confirmed here), so removing it won't do anything to cater to nerf Swarms campaign. As for not being able to react in time, the average human reacts at .215s and yet it takes (at least) 2.2s to launch 2 volleys, giving you ample time to react. MINA Longstrike wrote: Swarms probably need their locking time increased and that would make them considerably more balanced. "Considerably more balanced" or objectively inferior? Not that the latter doesn't mean the former to Pilots but stating your actual intentions would save both of us a lot of time. Confirmed for continued support of their skill-less and all-powerful weapon. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1933	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:34:00 - [7] - Quote 175m locking range atiim, 400 meter travel range. Vs the forges 300m range and requiring unobstructed line of fire to hit. Swarms will chase targets - you don't have to predict for movement or travel time like you do with a forge. Are you counting pilot 'reaction' from when swarms are first fired? or when they first impact - because rendering and audio bugs are still very, very present. Those first swarms hit while the second volley is in the air and the third volley is on its way. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:44:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: So basically make the Swarm Launcher's progression through tiers broken? I fail to see what this proposal would do beyond making the lower tiered SLs underperform even more than they already do. MINA Longstrike wrote: The problem is largely that it's way too easy to get too many volleys of incredibly high damage swarms in the air, too fast before a pilot can react. Swarms are overperforming in terms of dps, alpha damage and ease of use, massively beating out forges and plasma cannons in almost all aspects. This is compounded with commando suits reload bonus, and the damage bonus minmatar (shouldn't) get to swarms. Confirmed for not knowing what their talking about. Swarms "massively beat out Forges in almost all aspects" yet they have only 50% of the range, slightly lower DPS, require a direct FOV to hit, slower projectile speed, and can't attack Infantry. The fact that you mentioned PLCs is appalling, of course it's going to under-perform when compared to AV weapons which aren't terrible. The Commando's Damage bonus has no effect on the Swarm Launchers TTK (as confirmed here), so removing it won't do anything to cater to nerf Swarms campaign. As for not being able to react in time, the average human reacts at .215s and yet it takes (at least) 2.2s to launch 2 volleys, giving you ample time to react. MINA Longstrike wrote: Swarms probably need their locking time increased and that would make them considerably more balanced. "Considerably more balanced" or objectively inferior? Not that the latter doesn't mean the former to Pilots but stating your actual intentions would save both of us a lot of time. 1. This is a bait post but il bite 2. All 3 volleys gone at 4seconds 2a. All volleys will be fired before he is out of lock range 2b. 50% of 400m is 200m atiim because that is the missile max range, the FG can only fire to 300m 2c. Require a direct FOV of target - False - I can lock on through cover/terrain and fire while not looking at the target 2d. Slower projectile speed - Maybe but a ADS finds it hard to outrun the missiles so they are not that slow considering they recently got a speed buff and do not deaccelerate only move at top speed and top speed settings 2e. 10% off the bat from a suit - That is better than a complex damage module so it will effect the SL 2f. 2 seconds to react is fine? - But i ask how can you react when invisible swarms hit you? You can only react when you see the danger and as a ADS pilot not everything renders and infantry are invisible from 100m up and sometimes do not render till you are skiming the ground - Before you mention the FG and that instantly hitting at least they have to aim and not have a weapon that will always hit so i have a chance to dodge the FG where as with the SL you have already fired 3 volleys which will hit
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15142	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:47:00 - [9] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: 175m locking range atiim, 400 meter travel range. Vs the forges 300m range and requiring unobstructed line of fire to hit. Swarms will chase targets - you don't have to predict for movement or travel time like you do with a forge. Are you counting pilot 'reaction' from when swarms are first fired? or when they first impact - because rendering and audio bugs are still very, very present. Those first swarms hit while the second volley is in the air and the third volley is on its way. The 400m travel range is impractical when comparing to other weapons, as the 400m range is only useful when the Swarms were already fired while the FG's 300m can be used any time. As for requiring an unobstructed line of sight, if an HAV is mostly behind cover yet has a small part of it's side peeking out the FG can still hit it while doing full damage yet the Swarm will do nothing but crash into the wall. "Direct FOV" probably wasn't the best way to explain that assertion, though. Albeit anecdotal, the audio bug has yet to happen to me and I spent about 6hrs in a DS just to test it. Even if it didn't and you still had no idea about the 1st volley until it hit, that's still a good 1.5s before the next volley reaches you, which still gives ample time to react. Harpyja wrote: Confirmed for continued support of their skill-less and all-powerful weapon. Confirmed for being even more butthurt and tear filled than you were pre-1.7. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
ishtellian SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 108	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:56:00 - [10] - Quote I think one problem with Vehicles and AV is the fact that buffer fitting anyting is an absoulute terrible idea, evven with 2 complex plates and a harrdenner, a swaarm launcher can burn through that insanely fast. Now yes, I know this isnt eve blah blah blah, however in eve the bonus of buffer fitting is that you can take high alpha damage because of your large pool of hitpoints, meaning for example you could take a shotgun round and survive. Reps are balanced because they have a harder time surviving alpha but they can repair damage. I think for Dust buffer fits need to be much more viable for vehicles, and it could also help if Swarms could actually miss things even if you were in there range, they straight up to 90 degree turns to get to their targets wich kinda sucks, also I think decreasing reload speed and lock on speed could help. My Heavy Never Dies. Logibro In training.

Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15142	Posted - 2015.01.20 14:57:00 - [11] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: [...] 2. Means nothing, 3 volleys only kills LAVs and vehicles with Base HP. Even if it didn't 4s is ample time to react. 3. Depends on the vehicle, but ADSs can travel further than 175m in 4s and that's assuming they start from 0m away. 4. False, SL locks require a direct FOV and I've tested this myself. 5. My statement is true, yours has nothing to do with a comparison to FGs so it's irrelevant. 6. Forgot to link, see evidence here. 7. Swarms are rarely invisible, even if they were you can still hear them. Even if you couldn't hear them you still have time to react once the first volley is fired. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 549	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:04:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. This is a bait post but il bite 2. All 3 volleys gone at 4seconds 2a. All volleys will be fired before he is out of lock range 2b. 50% of 400m is 200m atiim because that is the missile max range, the FG can only fire to 300m 2c. Require a direct FOV of target - False - I can lock on through cover/terrain and fire while not looking at the target 2d. Slower projectile speed - Maybe but a ADS finds it hard to outrun the missiles so they are not that slow considering they recently got a speed buff and do not deaccelerate only move at top speed and top speed settings 2e. 10% off the bat from a suit - That is better than a complex damage module so it will effect the SL 2f. 2 seconds to react is fine? - But i ask how can you react when invisible swarms hit you? You can only react when you see the danger and as a ADS pilot not everything renders and infantry are invisible from 100m up and sometimes do not render till you are skiming the ground - Before you mention the FG and that instantly hitting at least they have to aim and not have a weapon that will always hit so i have a chance to dodge the FG where as with the SL you have already fired 3 volleys which will hit [...] 2. Means nothing, 3 volleys only kills LAVs and vehicles with Base HP. Even if it didn't 4s is ample time to react. 3. Depends on the vehicle, but ADSs can travel further than 175m in 4s and that's assuming they start from 0m away. 4. False, SL locks require a direct FOV and I've tested this myself. 5. My statement is true, yours has nothing to do with a comparison to FGs so it's irrelevant. 6. Forgot to link, see evidence here. 7. Swarms are rarely invisible, even if they were you can still hear them. Even if you couldn't hear them you still have time to react once the first volley is fired. 2. I can basically kill most vehicles or scare them off for a good 30seconds 3. No they cannot unless they are already moving 4. Wrong again - I can lock on through cover and terrain and have done mulitple times in a match 5. Its false 6. 3.5% is better than nothing and adds more damage 7. They still are invisible 7a. I can only hear them if i am close enough to the launch and if i hear them as they approch the vehicle its too late they will hit me 100% 7b. Only if i see them can i react but the fact it the 1st volley will always hit
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1731	Posted - 2015.01.20 15:56:00 - [13] - Quote How about we WAIT until THE NEXT TIER comes out before we have all of these fear mongering and damaging post about swarms , when the next tier comes we will get QQ from both sides ... so let's just wait until we have all the items involved before we go and try to " fix " anything because to nerf them now could prove all that more damaging . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15148	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:25:00 - [14] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 2. I can basically kill most vehicles or scare them off for a good 30seconds 3. No they cannot unless they are already moving 4. Wrong again - I can lock on through cover and terrain and have done mulitple times in a match 5. Its false 6. 3.5% is better than nothing and adds more damage 7. They still are invisible 7a. I can only hear them if i am close enough to the launch and if i hear them as they approch the vehicle its too late they will hit me 100% 7b. Only if i see them can i react but the fact it the 1st volley will always hit 2. Most vehicles in 3 volleys? Give me some builds. 3. Yes, they can. 4. Show me a video of you locking onto a vehicle behind a wall. 5. No, it's true and common knowledge. The FG's projectile travels much faster than the SL's volley. 6. That 3.5% damage still has no changes on the amount of volleys needed to destroy an HAV, therefore irrelevant. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Jack Galen Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 9	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:28:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: [...] 2. Means nothing, 3 volleys only kills LAVs and vehicles with Base HP. Even if it didn't 4s is ample time to react. 3. Depends on the vehicle, but ADSs can travel further than 175m in 4s and that's assuming they start from 0m away. 4. False, SL locks require a direct FOV and I've tested this myself. 5. My statement is true, yours has nothing to do with a comparison to FGs so it's irrelevant. 6. Forgot to link, see evidence here. 7. Swarms are rarely invisible, even if they were you can still hear them. Even if you couldn't hear them you still have time to react once the first volley is fired. 3:We can no longer straight up outrun Swarms - even on Afterburner. When we do escape, it is by employing the haphazard curved flight tactic, or due to us being already on the very edge of your lock range when you fire. Both occasions require that at the time of firing, we are already up to top speed. 4: once you have that lock, you can choose a different angle to launch towards, which should be considered, but I see your point. I particularly disagree with 7 The thing is, not all of our hardware is the same. My PS3, for whatever reason, seems to slightly underperform. For me, swarms are 50/50 invisible/visible. We can no longer straight up outrun Swarms - even on Afterburner. When we escape, it is by employing the haphazard curved flight tactic, or we are already on the very edge of your lock range when you fire, both of which implies that at the time of firing, we are already up to top speed. I saw a post with the idea that dropships would be given +75 pg and cpu, which would help immensely. I don't believe that nerfing the swarms again will help, rather a slight buff to dropships tanking ability through fitting. The issues for us arose because AV was buffed against all vehicles, rather than tanks and dropships separately. What we really need is to stop having a go at each other like small children, and have a meaningful discussion...
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 551	Posted - 2015.01.20 17:54:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 2. I can basically kill most vehicles or scare them off for a good 30seconds 3. No they cannot unless they are already moving 4. Wrong again - I can lock on through cover and terrain and have done mulitple times in a match 5. Its false 6. 3.5% is better than nothing and adds more damage 7. They still are invisible 7a. I can only hear them if i am close enough to the launch and if i hear them as they approch the vehicle its too late they will hit me 100% 7b. Only if i see them can i react but the fact it the 1st volley will always hit 2. Most vehicles in 3 volleys? Give me some builds. 3. Yes, they can. 4. Show me a video of you locking onto a vehicle behind a wall. 5. No, it's true and common knowledge. The FG's projectile travels much faster than the SL's volley. 6. That 3.5% damage still has no changes on the amount of volleys needed to destroy an HAV, therefore irrelevant. 2. If the vehicle doesnt move after 3 volleys its going to be dead 3. No 4. I might just take a picture with the orange lock box on through cover instead because i have no video equipment but anyone can do it 5. The FG has a chance of missing due to aim and the missile never miss and they outrun and catch upto a DS these days so really projectile speed means nothing and you didnt dispute this at all 6. Thats 3.5% more damage which means TTK does change
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2801	Posted - 2015.01.20 18:36:00 - [17] - Quote xavier zor wrote: I have noticed an increase in swarm launcher threads related to dropships, i just thought of a grand idea! Since in real life missiles have a travel range and a certain amount of fuel, why not change the lock-on range and travel time between the tiers? E.G militia can lock on up to 150 metres, travel 250 metres whereas prototype swarm launchers can do double what militia does? So lock on out to 300m? lolno I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2801	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:01:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: 4. Show me a video of you locking onto a vehicle behind a wall. Not everybody cares to own a capture card. If you played more, you'd understand. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Savage Mangler Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:21:00 - [19] - Quote I don't get all this QQ about swarms. Do people just stop, bend over and take it when they get hit nowadays? What ever happened to hardener+afterburner/fuel injector and getting the hell out of dodge? As an avid forgegunner who has moonlighted as a swarmer for a long time, any pilot worth his salt usually dips out after taking fire. -YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED- "Good, then they'll know who killed them." Salvation...through Annihilation
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 565	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:31:00 - [20] - Quote Savage Mangler wrote: I don't get all this QQ about swarms. Do people just stop, bend over and take it when they get hit nowadays? What ever happened to hardener+afterburner/fuel injector and getting the hell out of dodge? As an avid forgegunner who has moonlighted as a swarmer for a long time, any pilot worth his salt usually dips out after taking fire. 1. They nerfed hardener 2. They nerfed afterburner 3. They increased swarm missile speed so its basically impossible to outrun swarms 4. They still havnt fixed the broken SL so trying to avoid invisible missiles which still do happen is impossible and when missiles avoid cover what am i supposed to do? go underground?

Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 692	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:48:00 - [21] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: 4. Show me a video of you locking onto a vehicle behind a wall. Not everybody cares to own a capture card. If you played more, you'd understand. Its possible, but you can't lock through every single wall. It usually happens near edges and stuff.
Savage Mangler Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2015.01.20 19:54:00 - [22] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Savage Mangler wrote: I don't get all this QQ about swarms. Do people just stop, bend over and take it when they get hit nowadays? What ever happened to hardener+afterburner/fuel injector and getting the hell out of dodge? As an avid forgegunner who has moonlighted as a swarmer for a long time, any pilot worth his salt usually dips out after taking fire. 1. They nerfed hardener 2. They nerfed afterburner 3. They increased swarm missile speed so its basically impossible to outrun swarms 4. They still havnt fixed the broken SL so trying to avoid invisible missiles which still do happen is impossible and when missiles avoid cover what am i supposed to do? go underground? 1 & 2. Could you be so kind as to refresh my memory of what they nerfed about them exactly? 3. Really? Because I've seen plenty of (A)DS's and tanks eat the first volley, pop their hardener and waltz away just fine. 4. There's a directional damage indicater for reason. When it pops up, regardless of whether you see missles or not, drive/fly the other direction. If your cover isn't covering you, find better cover. -YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED- "Good, then they'll know who killed them." Salvation...through Annihilation
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 567	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:09:00 - [23] - Quote Savage Mangler wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Savage Mangler wrote: I don't get all this QQ about swarms. Do people just stop, bend over and take it when they get hit nowadays? What ever happened to hardener+afterburner/fuel injector and getting the hell out of dodge? As an avid forgegunner who has moonlighted as a swarmer for a long time, any pilot worth his salt usually dips out after taking fire. 1. They nerfed hardener 2. They nerfed afterburner 3. They increased swarm missile speed so its basically impossible to outrun swarms 4. They still havnt fixed the broken SL so trying to avoid invisible missiles which still do happen is impossible and when missiles avoid cover what am i supposed to do? go underground? 1 & 2. Could you be so kind as to refresh my memory of what they nerfed about them exactly? 3. Really? Because I've seen plenty of (A)DS's and tanks eat the first volley, pop their hardener and waltz away just fine. 4. There's a directional damage indicater for reason. When it pops up, regardless of whether you see missles or not, drive/fly the other direction. If your cover isn't covering you, find better cover. 1. Resistance - 60 to 40% but Armr hardeners are worse off from 40% to 25% 2. Activation time and cooldown times 3. Well they hit me fine everytime and i spend half my time in the sky doing sweet FA 4. The directional damage indicator is broken
Savage Mangler Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 247	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:24:00 - [24] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Savage Mangler wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Savage Mangler wrote: I don't get all this QQ about swarms. Do people just stop, bend over and take it when they get hit nowadays? What ever happened to hardener+afterburner/fuel injector and getting the hell out of dodge? As an avid forgegunner who has moonlighted as a swarmer for a long time, any pilot worth his salt usually dips out after taking fire. 1. They nerfed hardener 2. They nerfed afterburner 3. They increased swarm missile speed so its basically impossible to outrun swarms 4. They still havnt fixed the broken SL so trying to avoid invisible missiles which still do happen is impossible and when missiles avoid cover what am i supposed to do? go underground? 1 & 2. Could you be so kind as to refresh my memory of what they nerfed about them exactly? 3. Really? Because I've seen plenty of (A)DS's and tanks eat the first volley, pop their hardener and waltz away just fine. 4. There's a directional damage indicater for reason. When it pops up, regardless of whether you see missles or not, drive/fly the other direction. If your cover isn't covering you, find better cover. 1. Resistance - 60 to 40% but Armr hardeners are worse off from 40% to 25% 2. Activation time and cooldown times 3. Well they hit me fine everytime and i spend half my time in the sky doing sweet FA 4. The directional damage indicator is broken 1. Ok I'll admit that has got to blow for armor vehicles, a small buff to the armor hardeners might be in order. However swarms are +20/-20 so armor isn't ideal in the first place. 2. I can't really make a comment on that one. 3. How do you fit your ship? How many volleys can you take, hardened and unhardened? 4. Broken as in "registers each missile individually and therefore doesn't give good info" or broken as in "completely fails to indicate direction"? -YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED- "Good, then they'll know who killed them." Salvation...through Annihilation
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 568	Posted - 2015.01.20 20:45:00 - [25] - Quote Savage Mangler wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Savage Mangler wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Savage Mangler wrote: I don't get all this QQ about swarms. Do people just stop, bend over and take it when they get hit nowadays? What ever happened to hardener+afterburner/fuel injector and getting the hell out of dodge? As an avid forgegunner who has moonlighted as a swarmer for a long time, any pilot worth his salt usually dips out after taking fire. 1. They nerfed hardener 2. They nerfed afterburner 3. They increased swarm missile speed so its basically impossible to outrun swarms 4. They still havnt fixed the broken SL so trying to avoid invisible missiles which still do happen is impossible and when missiles avoid cover what am i supposed to do? go underground? 1 & 2. Could you be so kind as to refresh my memory of what they nerfed about them exactly? 3. Really? Because I've seen plenty of (A)DS's and tanks eat the first volley, pop their hardener and waltz away just fine. 4. There's a directional damage indicater for reason. When it pops up, regardless of whether you see missles or not, drive/fly the other direction. If your cover isn't covering you, find better cover. 1. Resistance - 60 to 40% but Armr hardeners are worse off from 40% to 25% 2. Activation time and cooldown times 3. Well they hit me fine everytime and i spend half my time in the sky doing sweet FA 4. The directional damage indicator is broken 1. Ok I'll admit that has got to blow for armor vehicles, a small buff to the armor hardeners might be in order. However swarms are +20/-20 so armor isn't ideal in the first place. 2. I can't really make a comment on that one. 3. How do you fit your ship? How many volleys can you take, hardened and unhardened? 4. Broken as in "registers each missile individually and therefore doesn't give good info" or broken as in "completely fails to indicate direction"? 3. If its shield i do not want to take 3 hit unhardened and armor i can take 3 due to more HP but same thing i have to run i cannot dual a SL user at all due to knockback and 4seconds 3 volleys 4. As in it says i got hit from the left and its the right side and im flying towards the direct of the AV user
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15149	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:31:00 - [26] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: [...] 2. Nope, I can list several builds that can survive 3 volleys. Though if you're stupid enough to stand there for 3 volleys you deserve to die several times over. 3. Yes 4. Fell free to do so, and when you do feel free to post proof that it actually hits the target as well. 5. Irrelevant to the point, taking this as admission of me being correct. 6. Still false, see here. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15149	Posted - 2015.01.20 21:37:00 - [27] - Quote Jack Galen wrote: What we really need is to stop having a go at each other like small children, and have a meaningful discussion... See the problem with this, is that there's nothing to discuss. CCP Rattati already claimed that Swarms were fine and that they needed no immediate balance attention. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Jack Galen Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 10	Posted - 2015.01.21 09:31:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: Jack Galen wrote: What we really need is to stop having a go at each other like small children, and have a meaningful discussion... See the problem with this, is that there's nothing to discuss. CCP Rattati already claimed that Swarms were fine and that they needed no immediate balance attention. We can still discuss it, as that allows ideas for making the game better for all to arise. Discussion is a very good thing for this sort of game. I just can't stand the whole 'I think this' -> 'You're stupid' -> 'No YOU'RE stupid'. Sadly these forums are rife with it; I haven't come across such concentration of bickering since playing CoD 5 or 6 years ago! The main thing people need to realise (and CCP are getting much better at this - props to you Rattati and team) is that a little goes a long way, and as such small tweaks are all that are required. My position is that, aside from the age old rendering issues etc that will never be fixed, swarms are absolutely fine. I may not like that they are fire-and-forget, but meh, I'm not going to like everything. I believe dropships could just do with a tiny bit more fitting room, but that is just icing on an already tasty cake.


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