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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7901
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Posted - 2015.01.19 08:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Playtime has nothing to do with how useful the CPM is, I will say it again, it is incredibly important for us (and me personally) to have a ready gang of players who know the game intimately, on Skype or email, to bounce ideas or thoughts off of.
I quite literally speak with them ten times a day.
Who do we talk to if we feel the CPM isn't advocating or representing us fairly / in a manner we'd like?
I am... La línea roja artillero..!
Tears collected from Redline sniping -:- 45
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7901
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Posted - 2015.01.19 08:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Went through my contacts and for monthly kills
Zatara - 0
Judge Rhadamanthus - 0
Soraya Xel - 0
Iron Wolf Saber - 1
Kevall Long stride - 60
Cross atu - 146
Sir man boy - 510
I'm at least glad 2 of our 7 CPM members have been playing the game.
Here's why I'm not confident in the current CPM.
Was the Thale's scope OP? Debatable. But when you have the balls to basically say that anyone who disagrees with you is 'wrong', I can't help but consider that as grounds for extreme bias in your general attitude toward everything related to the game. Lot of the other CPM aren't much better, either. Cross Atu and Kevall Longstride are the most sane/approachable of the lot but they won't discuss gameplay aspects they're not 100% comfortable in. I can respect that, at least.
About the only thing the majority of the CPM are good for is trolling the players as hard as humanly possible, being completely AWOL, or having some pretty noticeable bias toward gameplay aspects they're interested in. Of course you can't prove this because we don't get Summit Minutes like Eve Online does but I've been told that bringing this sort of thing up is just baseless drama, so take what I say as a grain of salt.
Not saying I'd do a better job, though. I quit caring. I've had a lot of resentment toward the game as a whole and find it incredibly difficult to keep up the drive to continue playing like I used to. But I do know that this current system needs to change or we're just going to be going in circles. I think that Dust 514 has only gotten as far as it has by CCP Rattati thinking like an Engineer and doing right by the numbers but eventually the CPM's "feedback" is going to start to show the signs of degradation, which I feel it already has in some of the more niche areas and specializations.
At this point, I'd argue that the community should start forming sub-communities that align with congruent viewpoints. Only way you're going to have the momentum to actually get your voices heard unless it just happens to align with whatever idea the current CPM has for the game.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7908
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Posted - 2015.01.19 21:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Who do we talk to if we feel the CPM isn't advocating or representing us fairly / in a manner we'd like? The CPM2 ballot box. Sorry I nerfed your class. (Not sorry./Wasn't even me./I like sniping too.)
Can be as sarcastic as much as necessary to make yourself feel better. When you completely ignore specialist feedback and are acting arrogant and egotistical, you aren't representing the game and the players who (potentially) voted for you.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7909
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Posted - 2015.01.19 23:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Can be as sarcastic as much as necessary to make yourself feel better. When you completely ignore specialist feedback and are acting arrogant and egotistical, you aren't representing the game and the players who (potentially) voted for you. Specialists have an agenda to keep their weapon/dropsuit/vehicle/playstyle in its current state or better. A sniper rifle balance wouldn't even be on the table unless Rattati saw it was overperforming or somehow a high-reward low-risk playstyle. If it got nerfed then it needed a nerf. Sorry, not sorry 
Except the feedback given by actual snipers who saw problems with the design was completely ignored. They buffed headshot damage considerably but in return nerfed the range and scopes.
The problem with this (not that I honestly expect anyone to actually listen past that first sentence) was that it did absolutely nothing to redline snipers, which the community massively supported the range nerfs for. All it did was make it -harder- to kill redline snipers because counter-snipers now had to move up even closer, putting themselves further at risk.
The community wanted less redline snipers and supported changes to make it harder to kill them, conversely of any changes that actually affected redline snipers.
Explain to me how that contributes further to a high-risk/low-reward playstyle..?
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7909
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Posted - 2015.01.19 23:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Can be as sarcastic as much as necessary to make yourself feel better. When you completely ignore specialist feedback and are acting arrogant and egotistical, you aren't representing the game and the players who (potentially) voted for you. Specialists have an agenda to keep their weapon/dropsuit/vehicle/playstyle in its current state or better. A sniper rifle balance wouldn't even be on the table unless Rattati saw it was overperforming or somehow a high-reward low-risk playstyle. If it got nerfed then it needed a nerf. Sorry, not sorry Specialist feedback is great, and some of the rest of the suggestions Aeon mentioned in the conversation (the part he didn't feel like sharing) were pretty good, if perhaps taxing in dev time to benefit a single role. But it's also key to bear in mind that specialists do, by their nature, have a biased agenda. And when someone is advocating that a weapon that was almost never destroyed but easily able to farm kills was not overpowered, you can safely write off that opinion. ;)
Please copy and paste where I was suggesting that the sniper rifle be a weapon that was easily able to farm kills. I'd like to see where and when I said this.
EDIT: And no, the "rest of the suggestions" I mentioned would not "benefit a single role". They would be intended for that role, absolutely, but much in the same way Cloaking devices are intended for Scouts and Repair Tools are intended for Logis they can be used by anyone with an equipment slot...
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7909
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Posted - 2015.01.19 23:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Actually, Aeon, if I'm reading the Hotfix Delta spreadsheet correctly, scope zoom was actually buffed slightly everywhere except for the Thale's, which got a significant nerf because, as mentioned, it was OP as heck. And for standard-style sniper rifles, range was brought down, but still well above the distance most people would realistically be sniping from on most maps.
#StillNotVariableZoom
#WhatWorksForYouDoesn'tAlwaysWorkForMe
#HowCanAScopeBeOP
On the discussion of maps, what range would snipers 'realistically' be sniping from, in your superior opinion...? EDIT: Also, if I post in the thread about AR's and why they're not being used more, are my opinions even going to matter or is my opinion too bias because I'm a specialist?
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7912
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Posted - 2015.01.20 03:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:
I will ask your help interpreting what I read wrong later then. :/ Because I was pretty confident.
Didn't you tell me you used to snipe 'a lot'? How could you not see this change..?
What's worse is this now betrays the anecdotal evidence given by this thread: That you don't need to play the kittening game to have knowledge of it.
Vesta Opalus wrote:
Scope was OP at the longer ranges the sniper rifle was effective at because it gave you a clear view of the guys you are shooting at even in the 500-600 meter range (as opposed to the other rifles which shows you a head the size of a single pixel at those ranges)
I disagree that countersniping is worse off, one shot from a charge sniper will kill damn near anything, before you had to hope the other guy was lagging or stupid to actually kill him before he moved behind cover.
I would like some variable zoom though!
So, it was OP because it allowed the sniper rifle to fire at ranges that it was originally meant to engage..? Wow. Who'd have thought that would actually make it so viable. (For the record, scopes meant for longer ranges also mean that they're less effective at -LESSER- ranges, but no-one complains about that).
Countersniping -is- worse off and using the Charge Sniper Rifle's damage as evidence as to why it's not is about as much of a stretch as I can imagine. If the redline sniper is 450m away, using a vanilla sniper rifle, and you're using a Charge sniper Rifle.... That means you have to get within 400m of him to do any damage at all. All the while:
a) His teammates can freely engage you.
b) He can take a few steps backward and get out of your range.
c) He's already been shooting at you for 50m.
d) He's already ready to fire, while you have to get set up and ready to go.
No. The scope is not OP because it allows the sniper to engage at his weapon's intended range. The Thale's -MAY HAVE BEEN OP- for other factors but being able to shoot at it's range is surely not one of them.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Cool that means deleting the scope on sniper rifle shouldn't be a problem now.
Aiming with it should require the use of the mk. 1 bio-optics.
Not only hyperbole but going in the exact opposite direction that the argument is presenting. Variable scopes would allow snipers to be able to -actually do their job- whereas an "OP Scope" is considered allowing them to engage at longer ranges with any sort of reasonable expectations. Removing scopes because someone says they're not sure what makes them OP is basically making a weapon completely useless when the playerbase is wanting them to be more viable for the weapon in question. But what do I know, I actually play the game.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7912
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Posted - 2015.01.20 03:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:the current CPM or the one you quoted? We each have individual strengths Aeon. ;)
I realize that. Shame that none of those strengths involve actually communicating with players outside of personal social cliques or trolling the community on the forums.
Even more of a shame that I feel like I have to wait for the CPM2 to come around to be able to talk to anyone that actually cares about anyone's opinion other than their own.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7913
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Posted - 2015.01.20 05:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:the current CPM or the one you quoted? We each have individual strengths Aeon. ;) I realize that. Shame that none of those strengths involve actually communicating with players outside of personal social cliques or trolling the community on the forums. Even more of a shame that I feel like I have to wait for the CPM2 to come around to be able to talk to anyone that actually cares about anyone's opinion other than their own. *sigh* Well this conversation is going places with an attitude like that. I would assert I have quite an open mind...indeed I think anyone who knows me particularly well is aware of how genuinely and often I am open to changing my opinion. I posted openly in my campaign thread that for me conviction is a destination. I care deeply about others opinions. And as I've said elsewhere on these forums many times...even when a person asserts some hairbrained idea (for example to remove all vehicles...or to create different queue's for differing numbers of point on skirmish match maps) I will either try to engage the idea and reason together...or I find that it's not a waste of time at all because I can see a different concern that's prompted such an idea as a solution...or the idea serves as inspiration to a brand new idea. I love talking with all players. I welcome their feedback and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone serving on the CPM who would claim the contrary. Indeed, I notice threads in direct contradiction to the assertion that the CPM do not care for opinions outside their 'cliques' unless you would fathom defending the idea the entirety of the forums are a clique. But as always...at least one of us will openly admit they may well be wrong. Goodnight Aeon.
In retrospect I might have come off a bit unfairly toward you, specifically, Zatara. I won't make excuses toward that and I apologize for grouping you in with the rest of the uhh... unsavory characters in the CPM.
As dubious as I am to admit it, CEOPyrex put it best when he said that I get easily frustrated when I don't have justifiable answers to things. Even worse when I feel like I'm not being listened to or when I'm being trolled. IMO, Hans Jagerblizen was the best CPM and since he left I kinda feel like there's no-one to actually have those engaging conversations with as to why something can or cannot work, what should or should not be implemented, etc.
It's a really pain in the kitten to try and hit someone up on Skype and never get a response. It's even worse to come here on the forums and be met with a stonewall barrier that basically says, "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" and "blah blah blah bias" and Soraya isn't the only one who does it.
IMO, a perfect CPM representative engages with players even when the idea sounds hair brained. They read between the lines of what a person is trying to say rather than what their saying. They don't waste time trying to argue as to why it's a bad idea but instead try to find reasons why it's a good idea. Admittedly, Zatara, you're more reasonable than most when it comes to that but you sort of just.... disappeared.
But anyway.
EDIT: It also helps to have some semblance of a kittening clue as to what the hell players are talking about instead of pretending like you know what you're talking about.... but this doesn't usually apply to you, Zatara.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7916
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Posted - 2015.01.20 08:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:
I will ask your help interpreting what I read wrong later then. :/ Because I was pretty confident.
Didn't you tell me you used to snipe 'a lot'? How could you not see this change..? Actually still think I'm right. Trying to get IWS to tell me what I'm seeing wrong on the spreadsheet. Snipers got a buff, man. Aeon Amadi wrote:Even more of a shame that I feel like I have to wait for the CPM2 to come around to be able to talk to anyone that actually cares about anyone's opinion other than their own. If nobody on CPM2 listens to you either will you start to realize part of the CPM's job is to filter out bad feedback and that your feedback was bad when it was ignored? Or will it just mean two bad CPMs were elected? As irritating as your attitude is, you have some good ideas buried in there, and yes, I do read your posts and try to dig them out. But I'm not going to apologize for disregarding blatantly ridiculous suggestions with a clear role bias.
Again, what role does it play..?
There aren't any ways that a Sniper can benefit it's team besides equipment disposal and the killing of high value targets. Range reduction further encourages redline sniping for reasons mentioned. Without communication (something a sniper can't really do in PC when comms need to be clear) that 'role' serves literally no purpose. Proposals to influence team-based gameplay are considered dev taxing and anything else is considered 'bad feedback'.
I've asked before but never received an answer: What are snipers supposed to do -OTHER- than shoot from the redline if there is nothing anyone is willing to do to change it?
And as for 'disregarding blatantly ridiculous suggestions with a clear role bias' maybe you should actually read what people are saying instead of writing it off as bias... Symbiotic's suggestions on the Charge sniper were far from over-powering and there isn't anything 'bias' about wanting hit detection that actually works.
Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback
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