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Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1453	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:00:00 - [1] - Quote So I did. I inherited a squad from squad finder, two new players showed up. We played 6 games, the total for the first was 1/62 kdr, he managed to get a couple hacks in. The other guy got no kill and died even more but managed some kill assists. I gave them some ISK.We played a full squad of ToP, all proto and a cheap tanker who popped out of his tank every time he was threatened. Then a full squad of ML, same story. Then we bumped into Duna2002, I don't think I need to say more. You would think that once they got to 15/0 they would realize that it is a mismatch and show some sportsmanship. OK, that was a joke. It was a normal night for me, I see the same thing every night, but because I squadded up I had to watch the ugliest part first hand, and now I am depressed. Because, that's why.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20767	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:07:00 - [2] - Quote 1/62 KDR.... Christ. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1263	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:10:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: 1/62 KDR.... Christ. IKR, the worst I have seen personally is 1/30. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1263	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:13:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah, using squad finder can be as bad as going in with 15 solo noobs. Squad up, but be smart about it, lol. If you come top of your team in a match, quickly make a squad and invite everyone that did well in that match (from both teams), this is a good way to meet other decent players and works a treat for me. You can then continue to invite the good players from each subsequent match, and replace any undesirables should the need arise. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4568	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:14:00 - [5] - Quote Dude, that dude is a freakin' badass! I only achieved 30 or so deaths deaths in one match during the million clone challenge by suicide. How that guy went 1-62 is freakin' mindblowin'.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20768	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:20:00 - [6] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Dude, that dude is a freakin' badass! I only achieved 30 or so deaths in one match during the million clone challenge by suicide. How that guy went 1-62 is freakin' mindblowin'. That was the total for the squad, which is both better and worse at the same time. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1699	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:34:00 - [7] - Quote I went 7/16 the other day. Lost my mind in a pub match. Decided I'd kill people in the proto squad with an HMG BPO suit. They were camping the ground spawn and being dicklord supremes. It worked 7 times. 16 times however it did not. I lost nothing but KD, and maybe some face. Go Here and vote! 1 like is 1 vote!
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 657	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:38:00 - [8] - Quote Squad Up doesn't mean : use squad finder to play with newbs. It rather means : join good public channel [You can find them in corporation description], and then show them what can you do so they'll invite you more often. Sooner or later, you can be invited to private channel where you'll always find squad. Loyal to State. Led by Tibus Heth. Not scared of death [like Admiral Yakiya Tobil-Toba]. Honour and Mission over money
sir RAVEN WING Kaalmayoti Warzone Control 2525	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:39:00 - [9] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: 1/62 KDR.... Christ. Exactly what I was about to say... You better not cry. You'd better not pout, I'm telling you why. Raven Claws is coming to town! I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 516	Posted - 2015.01.10 09:41:00 - [10] - Quote RemingtonBeaver wrote: I went 7/16 the other day. Lost my mind in a pub match. Decided I'd kill people in the proto squad with an HMG BPO suit. They were camping the ground spawn and being dicklord supremes. It worked 7 times. 16 times however it did not. I lost nothing but KD, and maybe some face. In my book, they lost both ISK and face. You lost nothing.

Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1453	Posted - 2015.01.10 14:58:00 - [11] - Quote Flint Beastgood III wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: 1/62 KDR.... Christ. IKR, the worst I have seen personally is 1/30. This was over the course of several games. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1453	Posted - 2015.01.10 14:59:00 - [12] - Quote Flint Beastgood III wrote: Yeah, using squad finder can be as bad as going in with 15 solo noobs. Squad up, but be smart about it, lol. If you come top of your team in a match, quickly make a squad and invite everyone that did well in that match (from both teams), this is a good way to meet other decent players and works a treat for me. You can then continue to invite the good players from each subsequent match, and replace any undesirables should the need arise. I don't think you understand what I find depressing. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1453	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:02:00 - [13] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Squad Up doesn't mean : use squad finder to play with newbs. It rather means : join good public channel [You can find them in corporation description], and then show them what can you do so they'll invite you more often. Sooner or later, you can be invited to private channel where you'll always find squad. I belong to a corp, on my main, where I can be the stomper 90% of the time. Frankly, that makes me feel worse. Because, that's why.
Amuf Oratok Dead Man's Game RUST415 58	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:34:00 - [14] - Quote So after all there are people who die a lot more than me.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5706	Posted - 2015.01.10 15:53:00 - [15] - Quote RemingtonBeaver wrote: I went 7/16 the other day. Lost my mind in a pub match. Decided I'd kill people in the proto squad with an HMG BPO suit. They were camping the ground spawn and being dicklord supremes. It worked 7 times. 16 times however it did not. I lost nothing but KD, and maybe some face. But you made their buttholes pucker a little and you win a moral victory for never giving up! Here's to you mister HMG BPO ground spawn guy! Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Timtron Victory Horizons' Edge 231	Posted - 2015.01.10 16:09:00 - [16] - Quote Do you want ISK? Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can kill me. Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 252	Posted - 2015.01.10 16:39:00 - [17] - Quote People who say "squad up" are just projecting their own dependence on squads to win. The squads that most people envy are basically the video game equivalent of group of friends who decided to knock on your door and burglarize your home or form a band or started their own business. They work together towards winning, they want to win, they know how to win, they understand what it takes... and they all agree that they have to do their own part. I usually feel like I'm in a good squad when I hear others understanding that they're going to lose and why. There's a difference between understanding and blaming, sometimes they mix together a bit- this is especially most apparent with people I've played with in Faction Warfare- Blaming: "God damn it, it's all because of how bad shield tanking is!" or "This is so unfair how they're Q-syncing against us!" Understanding: "******* blue dots won't clear the uplinks above the letter, but I can't do it because I'm in a logistics suit and I'm the only one laying uplinks and they keep getting destroyed!" EDIT: The difference to me is that one sounds more like helplessness or broad generalizations of things they can't change and the other tends to sound like battlefield awareness and a request for help. The squads that you're describing being in is literally the real world equivalent of gathering random people from a grocery store and asking them to play a complicated game that got infamy from it's negative reviews, brutal new player experience, unfulfilled expectations, bad matchmaking, offensive moves in customer relations, stories of developer studio mismanagement, complicated skill tree, complicated fitting... and against the squad I previously described. Now I'm not certain how many blue dots there are, but they are irredeemably awful at this game. Even if we put people together in squads automatically, they could not compete with better players... because they're better... Let's not kid ourselves, putting 5 people in a squad won't make the players any better than they were already are. Squad with people who a basic grasp of the game- you have a fighting chance. Squad with people who cover you, split up to hold objectives- you start winning more often. Squad with people who with prototype gear for PC or with playstyles complementary to your own- you dominate. Good players tend to cluster together and this upsets people, even more with the recent changes, they try to cling to winning easily and in comfort... And why shouldn't they? It's just a game after all... I'd say learn to market yourself or keep joining random squads or forming your own, if you're good eventually you'll get a random corporation or chat channel invitation. I accomplish these impressions in militia gear and I'm definitely not a great player. The truth is that everybody wants something, whether it's somebody reliable, or somebody who can stomp, somebody who can hold a conversation, somebody who can logi, somebody who gives them ISK, somebody to take out vehicles, somebody who is a girl, somebody who isn't a fat girl, somebody who is a sexy girl, somebody who is a girl who will have sex with them and sometimes they want somebody who can be a "yes man" and agree with whatever they say even if it's wrong or stupid. Sad, but true.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5412	Posted - 2015.01.10 16:43:00 - [18] - Quote I call bull. 1/62 just isn't feasible.
axINVICTUSxa Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 191	Posted - 2015.01.10 17:00:00 - [19] - Quote winces did they not want to stay alive? sighs Gluppi. Wherever the Wind (Aero) might take me, may it ever be True, for the way of the Commando is noble and right.
Vlad Rostok SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 58	Posted - 2015.01.10 17:16:00 - [20] - Quote Indy Strizer wrote: People who say "squad up" are just projecting their own dependence on squads to win. .....keen psychological insights..... Sad, but true. +1 for the psychology based analysis. But, my interpretation of what the OP finds depressing is the current situation with respect to the playerbase. We have: 1) the "original" players - the beta "vets" and those who picked up the game near the beginning of its life cycle. Many of those threw a hissy fit and left after the fanfest 2014 announcement about Legion. A lot of them have returned of late to sample Rattati's work. 2) the "middle" players - those who joined and were good enough to compete, got addicted, or otherwise manage to accumulate enough skill points to be competitive. This group probably contains more than a few masochists as well. 3) the "noob" players - I see many of these today and I suspect you all have too. These are the ones who are either totally clueless about the game, don't know what to do or don't care. To them it's a free game, pretty cool for free and that's all that matters. They can take it or leave it and their in game performance reflects that. I mean, I'm not even up to average in the skill department, but I'll get down if my deaths in a match approach double digits, much less enter that realm. I think anyone who had anything on the ball and was looking for some of the things Indy described decided that getting stomped continuously was a psychological downer and quit the game. This has left a significant gap between the top tier players and the bottom. If a lot of the top tier players weren't involved in PC, I shudder to think what the pub match realm would be like. As a side note, I find it curious how many players I encounter that are in NPC corps and yet are running full proto gear. I know there are some longer term players who have left player corps (mostly because the corp died) and likely can't find a suitable replacement and there are players who just prefer to run solo, but still.

7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 272	Posted - 2015.01.10 17:30:00 - [21] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Squad Up doesn't mean : use squad finder to play with newbs. It rather means : join good public channel [You can find them in corporation description], and then show them what can you do so they'll invite you more often. Sooner or later, you can be invited to private channel where you'll always find squad. ^ Cha Ching :) Conduct on the battlefield is the ultimate measure of a man
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1454	Posted - 2015.01.10 17:57:00 - [22] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I call bull. 1/62 just isn't feasible. Not in one game. It took six. Because, that's why.
Sned TheDead Y.A.M.A.H 76	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:00:00 - [23] - Quote The guy died 62 times? do you know why? like was he spawn camped, or was he rushing in wily-nilly? but 62 dang... any Ideas on how we can help the people like this find somewhere to learn, so the do not have to endure that every match? like drop a line to the learning alliance or something? Sned T. Dead. In a battle where the soldiers are immortal, what is the meaning of life? Random musing
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1454	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:00:00 - [24] - Quote axINVICTUSxa wrote: winces did they not want to stay alive? sighs Gluppi. They wanted to play. I told them there was no point in trying to win, to stay in the redline but they kept pushing. Idiots. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1454	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:06:00 - [25] - Quote Sned TheDead wrote: The guy died 62 times? do you know why? like was he spawn camped, or was he rushing in wily-nilly? but 62 dang... any Ideas on how we can help the people like this find somewhere to learn, so the do not have to endure that every match? like drop a line to the learning alliance or something? Sned T. Dead. My mic was glitched so I could only type. I tried to refer them to Dust Uni but I couldn't remember the channel name and when I tried to look for it didn't find it. These guys had a worse night than most, bad luck, but most new players can relate. I don't expect things to change, it is just sad and frustrating. New meta levels are in the works but I suspect people with maxed out skills and lots of experience will just use militia fits to stomp the new players. Because, that's why.
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1705	Posted - 2015.01.10 19:47:00 - [26] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I call bull. 1/62 just isn't feasible. You've obviously never witness a Faction Warfare Army member in action. Go Here and vote! 1 like is 1 vote!
LAVALLOIS Nash 405	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:18:00 - [27] - Quote Sned TheDead wrote: like drop a line to the learning alliance or something? . And what good would that do? What would they learn from the vet community? "The way to have success in this game is to squad up with people who have proto and go stomp militia suits with them". ^ Ive been on the forums for over a year, and the vast majority of vet solutions is exactly that. "Well why dont you squad up and stomp with me?" The irony of making people become part of the problem so it never ends. I guess thats the cost to catering to bad players who could never have any success if they had to stand on their own feet. We get a community and system geared towards appeasing the lowest common denominator.
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 181	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:25:00 - [28] - Quote It can be discouraging to be in a situation that is undesirable. There are many reasons people play and are at different levels, examples have been given above, the question is by trying to network yourself into better groups have you now become part of the problem as well. Stomping players who are not good as you, then sqauding with other elite players damages the community and the game as whole.No one likes to lose, and I think most people do not like to get their faces rubbed in it on a constant basis.The community should go out of their way to help and encourage new players not chase them away.It will hurt everyone in the end.I think it is be nice to new players month, grow the game or be the king of nothing, your choice.
Dreis Shadowweaver T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1579	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:19:00 - [29] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: squad finder Theeeeeeeeere's your problem! Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3 Join 'T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K PUB' channel
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 256	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:03:00 - [30] - Quote I honestly don't blame players for grouping up, in my mind, it should be part of the game. There was supposed to be both a progression in the player and the player's character, you network, you get skills, you get experience, you get training, this is something that I and many other players wanted from Dust514... Unforunately, it seems that CCP didn't consider how much a difference there would be between players with this type of simultaneous in game character progression and player progression... Not that I did either honestly. To succeed in Dust 514, you have to be good at FPS, dedicated to grinding SP, be motivated to win battles, psychological tough enough to weather consecutive defeats, knowledgeable of how fitting and skill mechanics work, have video game social skills and... probably... more that I don't know since not even I would consider myself a successful player and it's a lot to ask from people in a video game. Dust 514 really is like any other game, you play and you get better... but, the big difference is that the difficulty does not escalate as you get better, it's just unpredictably inconsistent. Sometimes you get stomped, sometimes you don't. For the longest time, we've had a game with a very discouraging new player experience where public matches were contaminated by passive ISK, contaminated by players with more knowledge and skill points, contaminated by players who know plenty of fellow skilled players to squad up with... All those amount to resources, resources that new players don't have. Is that fair? It's complicated, it's a question that even the greatest of philosophers of Dust haven't solved, but we all agree that it's not easy or pleasant... I can't blame the people who squad up for ruining the game because the game should've always been about having to squad up, gathering forces, and doing all that good stuff. It'd be gratifying, sure, I could have a fair fight every time, but then the game would get monotonous or worse- monotonously gratifying where I might as well be playing a mobile game that wants to nickel and dime me to poverty at that point. I like the occasional challenge of overwhelming opposition, but it wears me down too if it's constant. It'd be nice if new players could experience the same experience of progression that I did, I was lucky to be taught by some of the best players honestly and when I came in, everybody else was new- now end game worthy players appear in the first level to kill the learning experience for you if you're starting out.



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