DUST Search - Vehicle reintroductions, is it dead?

Echo 1991 wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

@Spkr

Alena did answer your question, you chose to dismiss the answer.

I can't believe I'm doing this.

Alena answered but failed to give reasons beyond "I think it's unfair." Using an abstraction between the differences in HP between dropsuits and HAVs is irrelevant because they are scaled differently.

The weapons that can damage vehicles can one-shot a dropsuit, thus necessitating comparative bonus increases to the armor/shields of an HAV in order to survive the incoming fire.

Now that I have agreed with spkr, I must go cleanse myself.

With napalm and fire.

I will never feel clean again.

By the way, my spreadsheet for vehicles is up. I'll be adding the modules I just found that I couldn't earlier later tonight. It's on the last couple pages of the HAV debacle.

If they are scaled differently, why would you give them the same bonus to HP per level? A tank shouldn't be given the same amount as a bonus as we are dealing with much larger numbers. Giving them a free basic heavy plate isnt balanced is it?

Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4348	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:31:00 - [61] - Quote And yet another vehicle thread quickly turns to poop. Thanks for the response Rattati, good to see the vehicle conversation has not been lost despite the heavy focus on PC rework. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2370	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:10:00 - [62] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: And yet another vehicle thread quickly turns to poop. Thanks for the response Rattati, good to see the vehicle conversation has not been lost despite the heavy focus on PC rework. How do you figure? Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4348	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:13:00 - [63] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: And yet another vehicle thread quickly turns to poop. Thanks for the response Rattati, good to see the vehicle conversation has not been lost despite the heavy focus on PC rework. How do you figure? hm? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2370	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:16:00 - [64] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: And yet another vehicle thread quickly turns to poop. Thanks for the response Rattati, good to see the vehicle conversation has not been lost despite the heavy focus on PC rework. How do you figure? hm? How do you figure? This isn't nearly as bad as some of the threads. Amarr/Minmatar vehicles are OP (especially Minmatar speed tanks) ^The reason why CCP is afraid to release them
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2710	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:21:00 - [65] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Spkr Alena did answer your question, you chose to dismiss the answer. Because it's a stupid answer. Why is it fair for infantry to get 5% per level for armor and shield, but not vehicles? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3648	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:25:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Absolutely, there is a learning period for us devs to figure out the the real contributors, and it's clear to me who they are. I'm a nostalgic of the old vehicle situation, many other are for various reasons, personally i was enjoying pre 1.7 for diversity and previous skill tree for being very well designed and give real advantages (it was more like infatry skill tree). It was cool to spider tanking, it was cool to stack skill on little turrets, it was cool to be self sustaining with every turret, but most of all there was choice. Numbers are up to you, but please consider to the option to make a step back, just for the feelings, numbers may change, fun is not always related to them. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4349	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:28:00 - [67] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: And yet another vehicle thread quickly turns to poop. Thanks for the response Rattati, good to see the vehicle conversation has not been lost despite the heavy focus on PC rework. How do you figure? hm? How do you figure? This isn't nearly as bad as some of the threads. Oh just people bickering already, forgive me I'm a little tired of it, that's all. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14989	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:11:00 - [68] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Oh just people bickering already, forgive me I'm a little tired of it, that's all. Than do yourself a favor. Click on [Non-Constructive Scrub]'s name and then hit the "HIde Posts" option. Now you'll be free to read any of the Vehicle Threads and you'll only see the posts worth reading. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10704	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:33:00 - [69] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: If you ever need some resources to help you out... https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rookie-resources/ Thanks but no thanks, I already have enough games and none of them are subscription based. There's actually a way to play Eve Online for free without having to continue to pay cash for it. PLEX can be purchased in Eve using in-game ISK and is then redeemed to add 30 days to your account. But you'll have to be able to gather enough ISK each month to get one from the secondary market. Right now, PLEX is going for about 814 Million ISK per unit in the market. Price will fluctuate although we expect PLEX prices to go down over the next 3-4 months now that ISBoxing has been officially banned by CCP in their Dev Blog recently. PLEX prices in Eve Online https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668 On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix 647	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:16:00 - [70] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Spkr Alena did answer your question, you chose to dismiss the answer. I can't believe I'm doing this. Alena answered but failed to give reasons beyond "I think it's unfair." Using an abstraction between the differences in HP between dropsuits and HAVs is irrelevant because they are scaled differently. The weapons that can damage vehicles can one-shot a dropsuit, thus necessitating comparative bonus increases to the armor/shields of an HAV in order to survive the incoming fire. Now that I have agreed with spkr, I must go cleanse myself. With napalm and fire. I will never feel clean again. By the way, my spreadsheet for vehicles is up. I'll be adding the modules I just found that I couldn't earlier later tonight. It's on the last couple pages of the HAV debacle. If they are scaled differently, why would you give them the same bonus to HP per level? A tank shouldn't be given the same amount as a bonus as we are dealing with much larger numbers. Giving them a free basic heavy plate isnt balanced is it?

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:38:00 - [71] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: @Spkr Alena did answer your question, you chose to dismiss the answer. I can't believe I'm doing this. Alena answered but failed to give reasons beyond "I think it's unfair." Using an abstraction between the differences in HP between dropsuits and HAVs is irrelevant because they are scaled differently. The weapons that can damage vehicles can one-shot a dropsuit, thus necessitating comparative bonus increases to the armor/shields of an HAV in order to survive the incoming fire. Now that I have agreed with spkr, I must go cleanse myself. With napalm and fire. I will never feel clean again. By the way, my spreadsheet for vehicles is up. I'll be adding the modules I just found that I couldn't earlier later tonight. It's on the last couple pages of the HAV debacle. If they are scaled differently, why would you give them the same bonus to HP per level? A tank shouldn't be given the same amount as a bonus as we are dealing with much larger numbers. Giving them a free basic heavy plate isnt balanced is it? So let's say for the sake of argument that we're dealing in two different scales of HP totals that are connected (these are not anywhere dust values, just going to be used to demonstrate how scale matters). Infantry - 100 HP Vehicle - 2000 HP Infantry weapons doing 25 DPS Vehicle (and anti-vehicle) weapons doing 500 DPS a 25% bonus will give Infantry - 125 HP Vehicles - 2500 HP So assuming the weapons stay the same, both the infantry and the vehicle will have gained 1 second of time living since the weapons also operate on the same scale, the same percentage bonus gives you the same TTK. (It's the same reason why the 5% to HP buffers per level works well on everything from Frigates to Titans in EVE, they're going to be mostly fighting against things that do Damage scaled to hit against their HP) In essence, the same bonus to HP per level can work because not only are the HP values on different scales, but so are the weapons designed to kill them (in the past in DUST the dropsuit HP skills also effected vehicles in the same amounts) Also, Sentinel Dropsuits gain essentially a free enhanced plate (most more HP than that), yet it isn't exactly something that most people think about Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Taskanoss Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 43	Posted - 2015.01.11 17:18:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Neither my mental state nor vacations are affecting this. After the first 20 pages were dragged down into the useless drivel I have come to expect between vehicle and infantry discussions, I decided to let it simmer and see if it would dig itself out of the hole. And it seems to be doing so, spreadsheets being worked on etc. This initiative is full on, but without quality feedback, we will just work on it internally. Sooooooooooo.....What you are saying is you need feedback, right? I got your back Bro Beans!
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 110	Posted - 2015.01.11 22:20:00 - [73] - Quote Sadly I do not have a spreadsheet to show a projection for performance but ultimately I think vehicles should perform besides piloting ability better based on the amount of SP one specs into the role. Much like in pre 1.8 for example the enforcer tank would have increased range and damage based on the amount of SP that you allocate into the skill tree and the same worked for armor rep, plating, etc. I feel the ADS is on the right track as far as unlocking the turret of choice then putting SP into small turret damage followed by putting SP into the ADS of choice gaining a raised ROF and ammo capacity. Vehicles shouldn't be treated as disposable.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16497	Posted - 2015.01.11 22:37:00 - [74] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Oh just people bickering already, forgive me I'm a little tired of it, that's all. I would be too if I'd put the same time and effort into constructing a proposal of the quality you did. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.


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