DUST Search - Things commandos need to make them fun and viable.

Kierkegaard Soren wrote:

Things commando needs:

Minor Speed and stamina increase.
Additional slot per tier, to bring them in line with sentinel slot layout.
Grenades, since it's often used as an AV platform and grenades are crucial to this.
Minor buff to suit precision. It's ok for them to be seen, but they go toe to toe with assaults more often than not so why be blind to them?
Additional durability, regen not hp. Don't want to step on sentinel toes.

In terms of bonuses, commandos used to have one that buffed any defensive module fitted. It allowed them to have decent durability without increasing the slot count. Well, in theory, anyway. It was only 10% maxed out. 25% maxed might be more substantial. I'm aware that in the list above I've mentioned a slot increase, but I reckon just the one extra per tier shouldn't make them the unstoppable "heavy assaults" that were the initial concern when CCP first introduced them.

Caldari: +% to Shield Recharchers
Minmatar: +% to Shield Regulators
Gallente: +% to Armor Repairers
Amarr: Maybe +% Reduction to Armor Plate Speed Penalty

Thoughts? And could really do with CPM and CCP feedback on what direction, if any, they want to take this suit. I'm aware that they might have bigger concerns to resolve right now, but a general idea of what and when would be really appreciated. Thanks.

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Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 1300	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:38:00 - [31] - Quote Buff Commandos O.O They are already borderline op (well, the proto) I run amarr commandos, and decimate the enemies. My people have been respeccing to it just because of how much it wrecks the opposition. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4311	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:55:00 - [32] - Quote Another direction you could go with any sort of additional bonus is giving them an offensive weapon bonus that specifically targets the racial weapons that the Assault doesnt affect, or affects in different way. Amarr: Decreased Charge Time for Laser Weapons. Caldari : Decrease Charge Time/Decreased Recoil for Rail Weapons (Whichever one the Assault doesn't end up with). Gallente: Increase Splash Radius/Projectile Speed for Blaster Weapons (Not sure sure on this one tbh since it would only affect the PLC). Minmatar: Increase Splash Radius for Explosive Weapons. As much of a fan of regen fits as I am, I'm thinking if the Commandos get a secondary bonus, that a more offensively oriented one would be the best choice. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1851	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:05:00 - [33] - Quote Problem with your amarr commando suggestion of additional low pokey: Any assault with 3 high slots beats out a commando with only 1 for damage. I really think that moving all commandos to a 3/2 or 2/3 is probably for the better (even though it flies in the face of some of the 'traditional' slot layouts). It gives the caldari commando the opportunity to actually use shield regulators (along side say a reactive plate), it allows gallente and amarr commando's to beat out their comparative racial assaults for damage (at least in the 'short term'). The minmatar commando really needs some buffing to its shield recharge value (18hp/sec, really?). Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4311	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:11:00 - [34] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Problem with your amarr commando suggestion of additional low pokey: Any assault with 3 high slots beats out a commando with only 1 for damage. I really think that moving all commandos to a 3/2 or 2/3 is probably for the better (even though it flies in the face of some of the 'traditional' slot layouts). It gives the caldari commando the opportunity to actually use shield regulators (along side say a reactive plate), it allows gallente and amarr commando's to beat out their comparative racial assaults for damage (at least in the 'short term'). The minmatar commando really needs some buffing to its shield recharge value (18hp/sec, really?). I'll admit I simply copied the Sentinel slot layout but did not cross check fits between them and the Assault so you raise a good point. I'd be curious to check to see what sort of relative resource cost is required for an assault to achieve what you describe. If the assault has to drop its defense below that of the Commando in order to gain more damage than the Commando, I don't see too much of a problem with that. I honestly see the two as fulfilling nearly the same role as attacking damage dealers so I'm fine with them being similar as long as one isn't clearly better than the other. And yes, considering the Minmatar in EVE typically have badass shield recharge, I have no idea why it sucks so bad in Dust. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 704	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:27:00 - [35] - Quote Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4312	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:30:00 - [36] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 188	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:19:00 - [37] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: At a 25% bonus to Rechargers and Energizers, 4 Complex Energizers would push the Callmando up to 136.6 HP/s. Granted that's a totally ******** fit since it would drop its shield HP by 6% per energizer, but still kinda wild. I'll do a spreadsheet later with theoretical values for each suit. I actually have a Cal Sentinel with a similar fit, but about 20HP/s less, and it can be fun as hell popping in and out of cover every few seconds to mow people down. If Commandos could do this we'd definitely see more out there more varied fits than AV. Purifier. First Class.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 704	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:22:00 - [38] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ I'd rather put it in a 2nd equipment slot or not risk "rebalancing" at all. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4313	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:34:00 - [39] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ I'd rather put it in a 2nd equipment slot or not risk "rebalancing" at all. The last thing we need is another class starting to push in on the Logi's territory with equipment. I'm not happy with the Scout's getting 2 as it is. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 189	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:42:00 - [40] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ I'd rather put it in a 2nd equipment slot or not risk "rebalancing" at all. Commandos don't need to become high HP Rep + Needle carries following a Sentinel. Purifier. First Class.

Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 129	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:44:00 - [41] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Things commando needs: Minor Speed and stamina increase. Additional slot per tier, to bring them in line with sentinel slot layout. Grenades, since it's often used as an AV platform and grenades are crucial to this. Minor buff to suit precision. It's ok for them to be seen, but they go toe to toe with assaults more often than not so why be blind to them? Additional durability, regen not hp. Don't want to step on sentinel toes. In terms of bonuses, commandos used to have one that buffed any defensive module fitted. It allowed them to have decent durability without increasing the slot count. Well, in theory, anyway. It was only 10% maxed out. 25% maxed might be more substantial. I'm aware that in the list above I've mentioned a slot increase, but I reckon just the one extra per tier shouldn't make them the unstoppable "heavy assaults" that were the initial concern when CCP first introduced them. Caldari: +% to Shield Recharchers Minmatar: +% to Shield Regulators Gallente: +% to Armor Repairers Amarr: Maybe +% Reduction to Armor Plate Speed Penalty Thoughts? And could really do with CPM and CCP feedback on what direction, if any, they want to take this suit. I'm aware that they might have bigger concerns to resolve right now, but a general idea of what and when would be really appreciated. Thanks. Minmatar comando needs a tweak in its delays and a little buff in shield recharge, cus it is supposed to be shield tanked, but its shield sux in every way, just my opinion. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 706	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:51:00 - [42] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ I'd rather put it in a 2nd equipment slot or not risk "rebalancing" at all. The last thing we need is another class starting to push in on the Logi's territory with equipment. I'm not happy with the Scout's getting 2 as it is. So pull that 2nd off the scouts, problem solved. Stupid they got it in the first place. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4313	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:53:00 - [43] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: So pull that 2nd off the scouts, problem solved. Stupid they got it in the first place. Well ok, but this thread isn't about Scouts ^_^ "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 706	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:07:00 - [44] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ I'd rather put it in a 2nd equipment slot or not risk "rebalancing" at all. Commandos don't need to become high HP Rep + Needle carries following a Sentinel. meh, anyone playing like that will deserve the prolapse they'll be left with when the match ends. No rep bonus+ denial of combat bonus b/c too busy repping = DumbDeadMando. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 706	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:09:00 - [45] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: So pull that 2nd off the scouts, problem solved. Stupid they got it in the first place. Well ok, but this thread isn't about Scouts ^_^ Agreed, though I didn't bring them up. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 189	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:28:00 - [46] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Unless you're giving it a second equipment slot (and the cpu/pg/bw to use it) my MinMando would appreciate being left alone, thanks. It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ I'd rather put it in a 2nd equipment slot or not risk "rebalancing" at all. Commandos don't need to become high HP Rep + Needle carries following a Sentinel. meh, anyone playing like that will deserve the prolapse they'll be left with when the match ends. No rep bonus+ denial of combat bonus b/c too busy repping = DumbDeadMando. Or something that would make the current rep-train on a Sentinel issue worse, since a Commando has better thank (in theory) than a Logi while able to offer better fire support. Purifier. First Class.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 706	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:45:00 - [47] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: It's ok, you don't have to put anything in your extra high slot if you don't want to ^_^ I'd rather put it in a 2nd equipment slot or not risk "rebalancing" at all. Commandos don't need to become high HP Rep + Needle carries following a Sentinel. meh, anyone playing like that will deserve the prolapse they'll be left with when the match ends. No rep bonus+ denial of combat bonus b/c too busy repping = DumbDeadMando. Or something that would make the current rep-train on a Sentinel issue worse, since a Commando has better thank (in theory) than a Logi while able to offer better fire support. If that were the case though, it'd be the case now since Commandos have a slot to pack a repper in already. And, while I'm obviously not in every game all of the time, I see RepMandos very rarely. They tank, yes, but have nowhere near the mobility, profile or hitbox to be more than a casual exercise at running beams and an EZ target all the while. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
IREK Ladybox Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.01.08 05:49:00 - [48] - Quote Everything in the op is mostly along the lines of what the suit needs. Except for the bonus. It needs to stay right were it is. Giving those kinds of bonuses would immediately get it labelled OP, and rightfully so. Then it being nerfed into complete uselessness.
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Striker 643	Posted - 2015.01.08 08:01:00 - [49] - Quote The bonuses suggested were what the suit originally had; an efficiency bonus to all defensive modules equiped, and it was largely worthless becAUSE it only maxed out at 10% and, back then, an ADV commando had a whopping two slots to play with. The theory behind it, however, was sound; low slot count compared to other suits in order to limit it's fitting flexibility but high module efficiency to make certain tank and regen modules quite potent. It's a way of keeping the commando alive in combat without turning it into a fat assault. Thanks for all the feedback so far. Pokey, 4% seems to be the sweet spot for module bonuses to me. Thanks for working all of that out man. Dedicated Commando. CEO of Eridani Light Horse Strikers. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4318	Posted - 2015.01.08 15:31:00 - [50] - Quote Personally I'd suggest a slight increase to speed and stamina, the addition of the extra slot (MINA raises a good point about modified slot layouts), and the addition of a grenade slot. Hold off on modifying any sort of bonuses before we see where the cards land. Again as fun as regen bonuses would be, they could get overpowered quickly. I think that if any sort of bonus is added it might be best to look more at alternate weapon support skills, but again hold off on that until initial changes are made. Oh and I'd tweak the minmatar shield regen rate up a bit, it's pretty dismal given that they're typically supposed to be shield tanked "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 711	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:18:00 - [51] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: The bonuses suggested were what the suit originally had; an efficiency bonus to all defensive modules equiped, and it was largely worthless becAUSE it only maxed out at 10% and, back then, an ADV commando had a whopping two slots to play with. The theory behind it, however, was sound; low slot count compared to other suits in order to limit it's fitting flexibility but high module efficiency to make certain tank and regen modules quite potent. It's a way of keeping the commando alive in combat without turning it into a fat assault. Thanks for all the feedback so far. Pokey, 4% seems to be the sweet spot for module bonuses to me. Thanks for working all of that out man. Disproven theories tho, ie RegenBonusMando=BestMando, are exactly that: Disproven Theories. They looked good on paper, but in practice weren't really viable so not really worthwhile. The current setups, while not neccessarily the best for all circumstances, have definitley led to more Mandos being used more regularly, more often, more successfully. At least thats been my observation. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1570	Posted - 2015.01.08 23:30:00 - [52] - Quote @ Minmando Shield Regulator Bonus Quicker recharge delay would be swell if my recovery rate was higher (18 hp/sec). I'd have to ran regs + energizer or recharger to get any mileage out of that perk; methinks this suit doesn't have enough slots for shield tanking. Maybe it would with +1 high slot, but definitely not with the current 2/2.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4414	Posted - 2015.01.18 20:33:00 - [53] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Minmando Shield Regulator Bonus Quicker recharge delay would be swell if my recovery rate was better than 18 hp/sec. Would have to run regulator + energizer or recharger to get any mileage out of this perk ... that's 50% of the suit's slots. Totally agree, Minmatar shield regen is too damn low, especially since the Commando lacks slots to properly boost it up. Honestly I've been kicking around the general concept that Caldari have the short delay but slower regen so they're a slower but more constant recharge, whereas the Minmatar have a longer delay but a faster recharge rate. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 533	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:32:00 - [54] - Quote I was told that commandos have the worst locating Ewar in the game. Blinder than heavies. Is this true? If so it would seem that that is a major obstacle to their ability to fight.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5600	Posted - 2015.01.19 05:26:00 - [55] - Quote Speed, stamina, and scans buff I'm all for. They're designed as an Assault's best friend being behind them covering their backs with constant fire. Without speed, they can't catch up (i thought they were stripped of all their excess armor. Shouldn't they be faster than they currently are?). And scans should at least be at Sentinel level. Or, have THE worst profile, but assault precision and Sentinel range. This might make things interesting. I don't really feel as if they need more slots, neither do I think a change of bonuses would be a game changer. What if you just increase the suits' innate racial tank and call it a day? More armor for Amarr, more reps for Gallente, etc.
Lahut K'mar Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2015.01.19 12:30:00 - [56] - Quote Commando suits have all the strength of a sentinel, but aren't weighed down by copious armour, right? So what if we made commandos capable of throwing stuff (like 'nades) further and gave them more stamina? They would still be whiter than assaults; heavy frame has higher torque but lower speed like a tractor, so speed and jump height will still be lower. However the commando can run for ages since neither clone nor exoskeleton even notices the exertion. This is three buffs (stamina buff, +1 grenade slot and throwing boost) though, so maybe it's a bit much. To balance, drop commando's CPU and PG and leave the mod slots as is. Or better yet allow the equipment slot to have grenades too. A non-heavy suit can equip a second grenade of the same type for up to 4 grenades. Or 10 IMO, commando is just a different flavour of assault. Salt uses mods to get a terrain advantage while habanero is ready for whatever the reds throw at him. Keep them as rival means to the same end and I'll be happy. Horrifying? That's a strange way to spell "romantic". FIX THE WHEEL, CCP!


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