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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
683
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Posted - 2015.01.06 00:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I have a idea about a SG nerf
Why not have Al the stats as they are now but reduce the kipp size to 3 ? Still inuff to kill most suits but if you miss a shoot or to you can be in trubble.
What do you guys think ?
War never changes
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MEDICO RITARDATO
Dead Man's Game RUST415
410
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Posted - 2015.01.06 00:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
3 is too low. 6 for the normal version, 4 for the specialist and 2 for the breach.
The pen is on the table.
TheD1CK is a scrub.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2748
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Posted - 2015.01.06 00:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
5 seems about right.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6869
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Posted - 2015.01.06 00:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
The shotgun is underpowered in all situations that don't involve a scout being behind you. If you are dying to a scout from the front you are bad and your suit is bad.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6869
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Posted - 2015.01.06 00:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:5 seems about right.
Also reduce the range. I'm sick of backpedaling and getting killed +15m away. That's lag. Chances are that he shot you at 7m~ but the shot didn't register until afterwards. The shotgun has some of the worst hit detection in this game and is the reason I am able to shoot around a corner, go back into cover and not get the kill until I'm back in cover.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Zindorak
Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance
1566
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Posted - 2015.01.06 02:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
No
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6167
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Posted - 2015.01.06 08:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you're dying at 15m you were killed by lag.
Optimal is 5-7m and it rapidly loses damage after that.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
684
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Posted - 2015.01.06 08:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
well I think 3 or 4 is just fine. It's more than sufficient to do the sneaky thing that they do now. But if they miss they can't do the 5 extra shoots at you when you backpedal.
It's kind of a fix with the hitdetection and the lag issue.!
War never changes
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
684
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Posted - 2015.01.06 08:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:5 seems about right.
Also reduce the range. I'm sick of backpedaling and getting killed +15m away. That's lag. Chances are that he shot you at 7m~ but the shot didn't register until afterwards. The shotgun has some of the worst hit detection in this game and is the reason I am able to shoot around a corner, go back into cover and not get the kill until I'm back in cover.
Dude it says 10-15 meters in the kill info
War never changes
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TooMany Names AlreadyTaken
Going for the gold
517
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Posted - 2015.01.06 09:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
The shotgun can still deal damage at 15m... even though it's significantly less, you can still die if you're on low health.
I may not have a mic, but trust me, you NEED me in your squad if you want to win.
When I'm on a roll, I'm unstoppable.
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
684
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Posted - 2015.01.06 09:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:The shotgun can still deal damage at 15m... even though it's significantly less, you can still die if you're on low health.
Yeah and that's why it maybee need a klip nerf !
This is how I look at it if you get in there shot of 3-4 shells and the guy is not dead you should be out of bullets forceing you to go to your side arm or runaway.
Sorry for any bad English buy the way =ƒÿë
War never changes
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Apocalyptic Destroyer
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
239
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Posted - 2015.01.06 09:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Watch out, last time I proposed a nerf to the SG I got banned for a month
Amarrian In Disguise..
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Proto : ADS Pilot, Tanker, Heavy, Scout, Assault
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Breakin Stuff
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
6167
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Posted - 2015.01.06 10:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:The shotgun can still deal damage at 15m... even though it's significantly less, you can still die if you're on low health. Yeah and that's why it maybee need a klip nerf ! This is how I look at it if you get in there shot of 3-4 shells and the guy is not dead you should be out of bullets forceing you to go to your side arm or runaway. Sorry for any bad English buy the way =ƒÿë
Nerfing the range is a stupid idea. You already have to be sneaky as hell or greased lightning to get into range to use that thing. Quit being bad at CQC.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
685
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Posted - 2015.01.06 11:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bro read upp, no one is suggesting a range nerf, just a klipp size nerf
War never changes
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound
2465
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Posted - 2015.01.06 12:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
I would:
1. Reduce ROF to 50 RPM. This puts DPS at around 400 for the standard shotgun if I remember my calculations. 2. Reduce magazine size to 5, putting damage per mag at 2400, well above the majority of light weapons damage per magazine. 3. Increase optimal range to 15m.
These changes close the gap between shotgun DPS and other light weapons, while the increased range means they are useful on some slower suits and don't need the fast speed of scouts to get full damage.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
2091
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Posted - 2015.01.06 12:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I would:
1. Reduce ROF to 50 RPM. This puts DPS at around 400 for the standard shotgun if I remember my calculations. 2. Reduce magazine size to 5, putting damage per mag at 2400, well above the majority of light weapons damage per magazine. 3. Increase optimal range to 15m.
These changes close the gap between shotgun DPS and other light weapons, while the increased range means they are useful on some slower suits and don't need the fast speed of scouts to get full damage. yeah shotgun has to much damage per clip.
KEQ diplomat.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1508
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Posted - 2015.01.06 13:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
The Shotgun used to be able to 2HK Heavies in Chromosome at 3x present range. Today's Heavies moan about being 4-5HK'd by a weapon with a 5m optimal range.
How many seconds does it take to get behind a target and into optimal range? And how many subsequent seconds does it take to center and fire a shotgun 5 times? How do those figures compare to the 0.30 - 0. 75 second lifespan of a Scout under HMG fire? |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9132
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Posted - 2015.01.06 14:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Take one shot away from the regular and give it to the Breach.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Cody Sietz
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
4303
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Posted - 2015.01.06 14:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
When they reduce the heavy turn speed and give back the RoF it once had before nerfing the shotgun.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1512
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Posted - 2015.01.06 14:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Take one shot away from the regular and give it to the Breach.
Wouldn't object to this if the breach's slowed reload speed and fire rate were reevaluated. Also, it'd be nice if they fix the breach shotgun bug where pressing fire triggers weapon swap >_< |
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
685
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Posted - 2015.01.06 15:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:The Shotgun has long been considered a counter to the Heavy. Prior to Uprising, it 2-3HK'd Heavies at 3x its present range. It was truly a terrifying weapon. Today, many Heavies moan when 4-5HK'd by a weapon with a mere 5m optimal range. To put this duration in perspective, the time required to fire a shotgun 5x is over 5x the average scout's lifespan under HMG fire.
( 85.71 RPM / 60 * 5 = 3.5 seconds || 400HP / 800 DPS = 0.5 seconds || 3.5 sec / 0.5 sec = 7 )
When it comes to free passes, today's HMG Heavy is not lacking. Let's not give him another one by nerfing the Shotgun.
I don't buy into the "prior to uprising" talk as a valid statement any longer. As far as 4-5 shots to kill a heavy, that must be the fully tanked out heavy that are so staked that the scout dances like a ballerina around the heavy if he is dumb to move out in the open.
Personally it's 2 hit kills that dominates when I go SG with some 1 and 3.
5 kills wtf don't even remember when I had to 5 shoot some one with s SG to kill him
Sorry 4 any bad English
War never changes
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1513
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Posted - 2015.01.06 15:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:The Shotgun has long been considered a counter to the Heavy. Prior to Uprising, it 2-3HK'd Heavies at 3x its present range. It was truly a terrifying weapon. Today, many Heavies moan when 4-5HK'd by a weapon with a mere 5m optimal range. To put this duration in perspective, the time required to fire a shotgun 5x is over 5x the average scout's lifespan under HMG fire.
( 85.71 RPM / 60 * 5 = 3.5 seconds || 400HP / 800 DPS = 0.5 seconds || 3.5 sec / 0.5 sec = 7 )
When it comes to free passes, today's HMG Heavy is not lacking. Let's not give him another one by nerfing the Shotgun. I don't buy into the "prior to uprising" talk as a valid statement any longer. As far as 4-5 shots to kill a heavy, that must be the fully tanked out heavy that are so staked that the scout dances like a ballerina around the heavy if he is dumb to move out in the open. Personally it's 2 hit kills that dominates when I go SG with some 1 and 3. 5 kills wtf don't even remember when I had to 5 shoot some one with s SG to kill him Sorry 4 any bad English
Buy it or not, it is a fact the shotgun has been heavily nerfed in Uprising, beginning with massive range reduction followed by decreased RoF all the while contending with an increasing HP ceiling. You are right about one thing, though; 2-3 shotgun blasts should suffice to kill a Heavy, heavily tanked (as most Heavies are) or otherwise. |
Shiyou Hidiyoshi
Ancient Exiles.
1163
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
How many of you actually use the shotgun enough to see the actual problem?
The lower tier is too strong. A proto shotgun is fine but the STD, MLT, and ADV are too strong. You can barely tell the difference between a ADV shotgun and a proto one if at all. A MLT and STD shotgun can 1 shot scouts and 2 shot many assaults. The proto is working as intended, it has a very short range and does a lot of damage. I use it all the time in PC and kill the heavy after a couple shots from behind. By the time the heavy dies, he has turned around and just started shooting his hmg or just turned around. If I miss one shot I have a good chance of dying if the heavy is good.
If people want a clip nerf then nerf the clip of the lower tiers but leave the proto shotgun alone.
As for range, you suck if a person with a shotgun kills you and you see them. The range is fine, they have to get really close to deal damage. The 15M kills are a shotgun dealing very low damage and finishing a very weak target.
Do not touch the RoF, it is fine. With a low range they have to get close to kill you. Lowering the RoF means it will take a shotgunner longer to kill you which gives you more time to turn around and lol hipfire them instantly. Heavies will rejoice because they will have plenty of time to turn around and kill a shotgunner instantly.
To dodge a shotgun, just move to the side. When shooting a gun at far range, you barely have to adjust your aim if a target moves 5m. As a target gets closer, you have to adjust your aim more when they move. At point blank range, you have to adjust a lot more if a target moves to the side back and forth. They call it this mystical thing called strafing.
"I don't always lock threads but when I do, I vigorously masturbat afterwards." - CCP LockingBro
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2036
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Posted - 2015.01.06 17:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
My only problem with Shotguns are the Specialists variants.
Normally, specialist variants are only available via the Loyalty Store. This is not the case with the SG. You can buy them from the regular market. This needs to change. Remove them from the regular market.
Home at Last <3
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14875
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Posted - 2015.01.06 19:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote: Normally, specialist variants are only available via the Loyalty Store.
There are actually several Specialist variants available for ISK, the Specialist SL is one that comes to mind.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9136
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Posted - 2015.01.06 19:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote: Normally, specialist variants are only available via the Loyalty Store.
There are actually several Specialist variants available for ISK, the Specialist SL is one that comes to mind. Specialist shotgun Specialist Sniper rifle Specialist mass driver right? Specialist swarm launcher Uhhhhhh specialist Plasma Mortar
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
687
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Posted - 2015.01.06 19:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote:How many of you actually use the shotgun enough to see the actual problem?
The lower tier is too strong. A proto shotgun is fine but the STD, MLT, and ADV are too strong. You can barely tell the difference between a ADV shotgun and a proto one if at all. A MLT and STD shotgun can 1 shot scouts and 2 shot many assaults. The proto is working as intended, it has a very short range and does a lot of damage. I use it all the time in PC and kill the heavy after a couple shots from behind. By the time the heavy dies, he has turned around and just started shooting his hmg or just turned around. If I miss one shot I have a good chance of dying if the heavy is good.
If people want a clip nerf then nerf the clip of the lower tiers but leave the proto shotgun alone.
As for range, you suck if a person with a shotgun kills you and you see them. The range is fine, they have to get really close to deal damage. The 15M kills are a shotgun dealing very low damage and finishing a very weak target.
Do not touch the RoF, it is fine. With a low range they have to get close to kill you. Lowering the RoF means it will take a shotgunner longer to kill you which gives you more time to turn around and lol hipfire them instantly. Heavies will rejoice because they will have plenty of time to turn around and kill a shotgunner instantly.
To dodge a shotgun, just move to the side. When shooting a gun at far range, you barely have to adjust your aim if a target moves 5m. As a target gets closer, you have to adjust your aim more when they move. At point blank range, you have to adjust a lot more if a target moves to the side back and forth. They call it this mystical thing called strafing.
Best post so far
War never changes
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IZI doro
Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V.
31
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Posted - 2015.01.06 21:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
I use a SG on an EWAR-specced Assault and it can do pretty well with the magazine size now. I can average 2-4 rounds/KO inside optimal, 3-7 rounds/KO within effective. If a nerf to the magazine happens, there needs to be a slight buff to the spread pattern. Ammo allows forgiveness but removing that needs to make each round more rewarding.
Ignorance is only a problem when left untreated. Stop the spread of ignorance with a daily dose of knowledge!
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