DUST Search - A thought on balance between the suits. CCP please read.

Maken Tosch wrote:

The Infected One wrote:

All it's done is allowed medium frames to mimic scouts in speed and stealth, with higher EHP, and totally mucked over the Amarr and tell Caldari scouts.

The Concentric Circles don't give any suits more HP and you can get under their passive scans with enough profile dampeners in the lows which is what the circles are trying to get you to do if you're in a scout suit.

I have plenty of beef with scouts who tried to tank up their suits thinking they only need the suit's innate profile dampening advantage. With concentric circles, only scouts who fitted enough dampening mods -- in my case it's one or two complex damps mixed with a kin cat on my minscout -- can get under those circle scans effectively which meaning they have to sacrifice a lot of tank to get that close. The cloak helps with hiding scouts from the dedicated scanner logies, but that's usually the extent of the cloak now. Since it reduces the passive scan range of the user once activated, you don't really see medium suits use it especially when the cloak gimps their CPU/PG availability.

The point here is that the scout can't outclass the assault anymore and the assault can't outclass the scout. This reinforces both roles as now both suits are no longer marginalizing each other.

However, I do have to admit that those range amplifiers may need to be looked into which I feel were overnerfed since 1.10. The reason the Caldari scouts are where they are now is because the range amps have been gimped which diminishes their roles. Not sure about the Amarr scout though.

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
The Infected One Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1404	Posted - 2015.01.05 05:06:00 - [31] - Quote I honestly have less of a problem with the light assault idea as the OP may have eluded to it. The whole point was to get people talking about how to get the scouts Ewar back to a more usable state. I still love running my Minja, my Gal/SG combo, Cal/ACR. Only thing on all my scouts that we've noticed is that the Ewar on the suits is very underwhelming over all. Yes, I know that limiting scouts to sidearms would only mean that we would see more sidearm kills, and that it wouldn't really downplay the lethality of good scouts. I generally run my sidearm only min scout with mag sec and knives and do very well, but if it would get us our Ewar back, we would support it. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10668	Posted - 2015.01.05 05:21:00 - [32] - Quote The Infected One wrote: I honestly have less of a problem with the light assault idea as the OP may have eluded to it. The whole point was to get people talking about how to get the scouts Ewar back to a more usable state. I still love running my Minja, my Gal/SG combo, Cal/ACR. Only thing on all my scouts that we've noticed is that the Ewar on the suits is very underwhelming over all. Yes, I know that limiting scouts to sidearms would only mean that we would see more sidearm kills, and that it wouldn't really downplay the lethality of good scouts. I generally run my sidearm only min scout with mag sec and knives and do very well, but if it would get us our Ewar back, we would support it. The thing with EWAR is that it impacts everyone. The EWAR you're asking back is based off of old mechanics before CCP Rattati's concentric circles were implemented for all suits. EWAR is one of those special cases that has a lot of factors affecting it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 924	Posted - 2015.01.05 05:22:00 - [33] - Quote The Infected One wrote: I honestly have less of a problem with the light assault idea as the OP may have eluded to it. The whole point was to get people talking about how to get the scouts Ewar back to a more usable state. I still love running my Minja, my Gal/SG combo, Cal/ACR. Only thing on all my scouts that we've noticed is that the Ewar on the suits is very underwhelming over all. Yes, I know that limiting scouts to sidearms would only mean that we would see more sidearm kills, and that it wouldn't really downplay the lethality of good scouts. I generally run my sidearm only min scout with mag sec and knives and do very well, but if it would get us our Ewar back, we would support it. I would not. I am not a rogue. If I wanted to be a rogue I would be a Min scout. I play my scouts Cal/Gal as Sniper/Marksman or should I say a hunter. You know the other kind of scout that is not a rogue. Where do people get the idea that scouts are only knife or pistol users If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
The Infected One Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1404	Posted - 2015.01.05 05:50:00 - [34] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The Infected One wrote: I honestly have less of a problem with the light assault idea as the OP may have eluded to it. The whole point was to get people talking about how to get the scouts Ewar back to a more usable state. I still love running my Minja, my Gal/SG combo, Cal/ACR. Only thing on all my scouts that we've noticed is that the Ewar on the suits is very underwhelming over all. Yes, I know that limiting scouts to sidearms would only mean that we would see more sidearm kills, and that it wouldn't really downplay the lethality of good scouts. I generally run my sidearm only min scout with mag sec and knives and do very well, but if it would get us our Ewar back, we would support it. The thing with EWAR is that it impacts everyone. The EWAR you're asking back is based off of old mechanics before CCP Rattati's concentric circles were implemented for all suits. EWAR is one of those special cases that has a lot of factors affecting it. Okay, so maybe the Ewar we had before was a little bit much, but we need something better than what we currently have. The concentric circles thing isn't working. All it's done is allowed medium frames to mimic scouts in speed and stealth, with higher EHP, and totally mucked over the Amarr and tell Caldari scouts. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10668	Posted - 2015.01.05 06:14:00 - [35] - Quote The Infected One wrote: All it's done is allowed medium frames to mimic scouts in speed and stealth, with higher EHP, and totally mucked over the Amarr and tell Caldari scouts. The Concentric Circles don't give any suits more HP and you can get under their passive scans with enough profile dampeners in the lows which is what the circles are trying to get you to do if you're in a scout suit. I have plenty of beef with scouts who tried to tank up their suits thinking they only need the suit's innate profile dampening advantage. With concentric circles, only scouts who fitted enough dampening mods -- in my case it's one or two complex damps mixed with a kin cat on my minscout -- can get under those circle scans effectively which meaning they have to sacrifice a lot of tank to get that close. The cloak helps with hiding scouts from the dedicated scanner logies, but that's usually the extent of the cloak now. Since it reduces the passive scan range of the user once activated, you don't really see medium suits use it especially when the cloak gimps their CPU/PG availability. The point here is that the scout can't outclass the assault anymore and the assault can't outclass the scout. This reinforces both roles as now both suits are no longer marginalizing each other. However, I do have to admit that those range amplifiers may need to be looked into which I feel were overnerfed since 1.10. The reason the Caldari scouts are where they are now is because the range amps have been gimped which diminishes their roles. Not sure about the Amarr scout though. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 296	Posted - 2015.01.05 06:21:00 - [36] - Quote I dont know if this would be a good idea, but I'd give it a shot for a month or two and see how things pan out, with the following changes added along with it: scan radius modules increased back up a bit (30-50% or something?), and give points for passive scan intel assists. That way scouts are rewarded for doing their job (providing intel).
voidfaction Nos Nothi 924	Posted - 2015.01.05 07:24:00 - [37] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The Infected One wrote: All it's done is allowed medium frames to mimic scouts in speed and stealth, with higher EHP, and totally mucked over the Amarr and tell Caldari scouts. The Concentric Circles don't give any suits more HP and you can get under their passive scans with enough profile dampeners in the lows which is what the circles are trying to get you to do if you're in a scout suit. I have plenty of beef with scouts who tried to tank up their suits thinking they only need the suit's innate profile dampening advantage. With concentric circles, only scouts who fitted enough dampening mods -- in my case it's one or two complex damps mixed with a kin cat on my minscout -- can get under those circle scans effectively which meaning they have to sacrifice a lot of tank to get that close. The cloak helps with hiding scouts from the dedicated scanner logies, but that's usually the extent of the cloak now. Since it reduces the passive scan range of the user once activated, you don't really see medium suits use it especially when the cloak gimps their CPU/PG availability. The point here is that the scout can't outclass the assault anymore and the assault can't outclass the scout. This reinforces both roles as now both suits are no longer marginalizing each other. However, I do have to admit that those range amplifiers may need to be looked into which I feel were overnerfed since 1.10. The reason the Caldari scouts are where they are now is because the range amps have been gimped which diminishes their roles. Not sure about the Amarr scout though. Not sure my opinion on range amps. Since shared passive is not going anywhere then keep it how it is. If they could/would remove shared passive then buff them 5%. Cal scout can still have higher range in comparison to everyone else. Only change I would make is decrease the range on the inner ring. < nerf As far as Amarr scouts I would say it killed them. I think It needs the range of the inner and middle ring increased. < buff Can those be buffed/tweaked per suit? I like how if I want to be a recon scout I can use a active scanner that is shared with the team. It is not 360 and all scouts can beat it should they want to. I do think the new eWar was needed. Now if only we could get rid of shared passive. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
The Infected One Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1405	Posted - 2015.01.05 08:24:00 - [38] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Can those be buffed/tweaked per suit? I like how if I want to be a recon scout I can use a active scanner that is shared with the team. It is not 360 and all scouts can beat it should they want to. I do think the new eWar was needed. Now if only we could get rid of shared passive. Per suit would be awesome. I would say get rid if team share, maybe make it squad share, and give points to the passive scan scout? I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1474	Posted - 2015.01.05 13:53:00 - [39] - Quote Where were you, Infected, when your CEO and CPM was laying out his "360 wallhack" agenda before Rattati? We were there. We explained in no uncertain terms that devaluing EWAR would be bad for both Scout design and class parity. We explained as we'd previously explained that the worse we make EWAR for Scouts, the more Scouts will gravitate toward "Assault Lite" slayer builds. Zatara rebutted that Assault Lite wasn't a real problem, rather the real problem was the "360 degree wallhacking" EWAR Scout. We gave it our best shot. Zatara laughed at expert feedback. It's all here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=181381&find=unread And ^ there ^ is where we should have had this conversation. In the end, Rattati ruled in favor weakening passive scans. Right or wrong, that was his ruling. Fortunately, he followed up the strafe penalty and the "Assault Lite" exodus is now well underway. Mission Accomplished. Fast Forward to today ... Scouts have always opposed a Sidearm Only restriction. It doesn't matter whether or not we could pull it if; it would severely limit build diversity. It would distill an entire class down to a handful of optimized loadout options. Yes, the combat-oriented MinScout would be largely unaffected, but there's more to the class than one suit. Most importantly, there is no good reason to do it. Secondly, this quid-pro-quo approach makes no sense. You're saying, "Scouts should be better at EWAR so take away their Light Weapon." If Scouts should be better at EWAR, then make them better at EWAR; there's no need to trade. If it is in fact your goal to make the Scout Dust's optimal recon unit, then why not make Active Scanners scout-only equipment? This would accomplish the goal with fewer moving parts and less blowback. The only suit you'll need fix after the fact is the GA Logi.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1474	Posted - 2015.01.05 14:05:00 - [40] - Quote Counterproposal: Reinforcing the Recon Scout Prerequisites * Replace current GA Logi racial bonus * Restrict Active Scanners to Scout class * Set all Scanners to Team Share Implementation * AM Scout - Counter-infiltration. Bonus to high intensity, short range scanners. * CA Scout - Long Range Recon. Bonus to low intensity, long range scanners. * GA Scout - Infiltration. No bonus to scanners. * MN Scout - Hack and Slash. No bonus to scanners.



Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page