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Lazer Fo Cused wrote:

Pseudogenesis wrote:

Lazer Fo Cused wrote:

Stupid Blueberry wrote:

If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it.

1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment

2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle

3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective

4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team

Your logical fallacy is... false equivalence!

When you swap from heavy to scout, you stop helping your team as a heavy and start helping your team as a scout.
When you swap from scout to assault, you stop helping your team as a scout and start helping your team as an assault.
If you swap from logi to AV, you should stop helping your team as a logi and start helping your team as AV

End of story.

1. Missing the point as usual - The Logi is the only suit that can put down a range of equipment because that is its sole purpose in this game espc for the Amarr and Caldari who have bonuses for deployable equipment if i put down a box then change into jeans it doesnt disappear now does it?

2. If i swap from Logi to AV then im adapting to the situation at hand, why is the logi punished for helping the team out when needed? no other class is punished if they swap from one role to another, its called teamwork but only the logi is not allowed to take part

3. So lets say if you start as heavy you stay as heavy and ll the same for the commando/scout and assault - That means the supply depot should be changed so you cannot swap roles at all while in the match, you can only swap when you are dead and have to respawn

4. Lag is still about anyway and on the usual maps

5. If it was about WP farming then simple - If you swap to another class you stop gaining WP from the equip you put down

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jpmannu 74	Posted - 2014.12.25 10:15:00 - [1] - Quote ... So this guy, he is a Gallente Logi. he wants to help and give a team contribution, he gets to this position where a couple of forge guns are actually AVing and drops nanohives... He then decides to get changed and join the other fellas forging, but... uh surprise surprise, once he eventually gets back there the nanohives just "poufffff".... this is HILARIOUS... ...but we did achieve a framerate increase didnt we? CCP, community feedback, and also CPM brains that have suggested such a clever and smart solution to the framerate issue, are you insane? I just cant stand this neverending nerfs policy.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 731	Posted - 2014.12.25 10:16:00 - [2] - Quote If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1162	Posted - 2014.12.25 10:27:00 - [3] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 475	Posted - 2014.12.25 10:44:00 - [4] - Quote There is less lag, it was all the uplink's fault. I may not have a mic, but trust me, you NEED me in your squad if you want to win. When I'm on a roll, I'm unstoppable.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 735	Posted - 2014.12.25 11:13:00 - [5] - Quote TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: There is less lag, it was all the uplink's fault. Hives hurt really bad, too. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1786	Posted - 2014.12.25 11:46:00 - [6] - Quote The problem is not the fact your equipment went poof. The problem is you tried to do 2 roles at the same time. If your dropping gear for the sole purpose of using it with another suit then you better make sure you have the bandwidth to do so. There is a reason heavies don't have equipment. Someone throwing gear down and changing into a heavy is abusing this All Hail Legion
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14074	Posted - 2014.12.25 11:48:00 - [7] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1161	Posted - 2014.12.25 11:54:00 - [8] - Quote He's so mad, he went insane. CB Vet // True Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Learning Coalition and RTG Mentor
Sequal's Back Les Desanusseurs 31	Posted - 2014.12.25 14:42:00 - [9] - Quote Lags and framerate didn't change at all, it was a useless feature added by people who don't play the gameGÇª
CrotchGrab 360 Yon Hyaku Nijuu Moyase 1725	Posted - 2014.12.25 14:48:00 - [10] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. DUST VIDEOS

abdullah muzaffar G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 123	Posted - 2014.12.25 14:49:00 - [11] - Quote Yup. Bandwith is complete BS. Theres a reason that i specced into equipment. There would have been better ways to reduce spam than BW, which does absolutely nothing to increase fps, as we were in a lagfacility match last night with no eq on our side, and huuge fps drops. All it did was kill the lonewolf and make matches more onesided, with usually 0 uplinks on the losing team.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5537	Posted - 2014.12.25 14:54:00 - [12] - Quote abdullah muzaffar wrote: Yup. Bandwith is complete BS. Theres a reason that i specced into equipment. There would have been better ways to reduce spam than BW, which does absolutely nothing to increase fps, as we were in a lagfacility match last night with no eq on our side, and huuge fps drops. All it did was kill the lonewolf and make matches more onesided, with usually 0 uplinks on the losing team. The only reason matches would be one-sided is because people think they should be able to deploy a bunch of support equipment and then switch back to being a Slayer. What other game can you think of that allows you to carry and throwdown 4 boxes of ammo, then switch to Assault and run around killing people while you continue to get assist points for the ammo boxes? If you want to play support, PLAY SUPPORT. Don't try and half-ass it. As someone who runs dedicated Logi, I see no problem with Bandwidth whatsoever. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Sequal's Back Les Desanusseurs 31	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:00:00 - [13] - Quote I see a problem when the blueberries in my team are all a bunch of assholes and if I don't put all the uplinks and slay at the same time, they will stare at the stars without even trying to respawn and fight. You need a squad of 5+ players if you want to have a normal fight nowadays.
abdullah muzaffar G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 123	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:01:00 - [14] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: abdullah muzaffar wrote: Yup. Bandwith is complete BS. Theres a reason that i specced into equipment. There would have been better ways to reduce spam than BW, which does absolutely nothing to increase fps, as we were in a lagfacility match last night with no eq on our side, and huuge fps drops. All it did was kill the lonewolf and make matches more onesided, with usually 0 uplinks on the losing team. The only reason matches would be one-sided is because people think they should be able to deploy a bunch of support equipment and then switch back to being a Slayer. What other game can you think of that allows you to carry and throwdown 4 boxes of ammo, then switch to Assault and run around killing people while you continue to get assist points for the ammo boxes? If you want to play support, PLAY SUPPORT. Don't try and half-ass it. As someone who runs dedicated Logi, I see no problem with Bandwidth whatsoever. AV is still support.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 749	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:03:00 - [15] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Lags and framerate didn't change at all, it was a useless feature added by people who don't play the gameGÇª Framerate improved dramatically now that people can't spam nanohives and uplinks. Obviously some people either weren't around or don't remember Nyain San intentionally lagging the game out by spamming equipment. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5539	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:06:00 - [16] - Quote abdullah muzaffar wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: abdullah muzaffar wrote: Yup. Bandwith is complete BS. Theres a reason that i specced into equipment. There would have been better ways to reduce spam than BW, which does absolutely nothing to increase fps, as we were in a lagfacility match last night with no eq on our side, and huuge fps drops. All it did was kill the lonewolf and make matches more onesided, with usually 0 uplinks on the losing team. The only reason matches would be one-sided is because people think they should be able to deploy a bunch of support equipment and then switch back to being a Slayer. What other game can you think of that allows you to carry and throwdown 4 boxes of ammo, then switch to Assault and run around killing people while you continue to get assist points for the ammo boxes? If you want to play support, PLAY SUPPORT. Don't try and half-ass it. As someone who runs dedicated Logi, I see no problem with Bandwidth whatsoever. AV is still support. AV is not the same as carrying Nanohives and Uplinks. You shouldn't be able to do both at once, and now you can't. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1791	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:12:00 - [17] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: abdullah muzaffar wrote: Yup. Bandwith is complete BS. Theres a reason that i specced into equipment. There would have been better ways to reduce spam than BW, which does absolutely nothing to increase fps, as we were in a lagfacility match last night with no eq on our side, and huuge fps drops. All it did was kill the lonewolf and make matches more onesided, with usually 0 uplinks on the losing team. The only reason matches would be one-sided is because people think they should be able to deploy a bunch of support equipment and then switch back to being a Slayer. What other game can you think of that allows you to carry and throwdown 4 boxes of ammo, then switch to Assault and run around killing people while you continue to get assist points for the ammo boxes? If you want to play support, PLAY SUPPORT. Don't try and half-ass it. As someone who runs dedicated Logi, I see no problem with Bandwidth whatsoever. Agreed. Also Bandwidth only affects a logistics in 1 way. It makes all our equipment 100% useful as we don't have to compete with spammers. Any real logi is unaffected. All Hail Legion
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 288	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:12:00 - [18] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1633	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:16:00 - [19] - Quote Framerate lag was not that much reduced, the game still suffers too much from it. There will still be enough equipment around, especially those nanohives with fancy-pansy special visual shiny bubble and sound effects. When they overlap... Smoothness disappears. Add more of those and other factors into the mix, enter The Lagman. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 749	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:19:00 - [20] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team Heavies, scouts and assaults won't continue to rack up wp after switching out of their suit. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.

Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1186	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:25:00 - [21] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team Your logical fallacy is... false equivalence! When you swap from heavy to scout, you stop helping your team as a heavy and start helping your team as a scout. When you swap from scout to assault, you stop helping your team as a scout and start helping your team as an assault. If you swap from logi to AV, you should stop helping your team as a logi and start helping your team as AV End of story. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 750	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:27:00 - [22] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team Your logical fallacy is... false equivalence! When you swap from heavy to scout, you stop helping your team as a heavy and start helping your team as a scout. When you swap from scout to assault, you stop helping your team as a scout and start helping your team as an assault. If you swap from logi to AV, you should stop helping your team as a logi and start helping your team as AV End of story. ^Said it better than me Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1417	Posted - 2014.12.25 15:58:00 - [23] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Sequal's Back Les Desanusseurs 32	Posted - 2014.12.25 16:43:00 - [24] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Lags and framerate didn't change at all, it was a useless feature added by people who don't play the gameGÇª Framerate improved dramatically now that people can't spam nanohives and uplinks. Obviously some people either weren't around or don't remember Nyain San intentionally lagging the game out by spamming equipment. Nothing changed and you believe CCP's stories.. that's so cute of you :)
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 772	Posted - 2014.12.25 18:53:00 - [25] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Lags and framerate didn't change at all, it was a useless feature added by people who don't play the gameGÇª Framerate improved dramatically now that people can't spam nanohives and uplinks. Obviously some people either weren't around or don't remember Nyain San intentionally lagging the game out by spamming equipment. Nothing changed and you believe CCP's stories.. that's so cute of you :) Keep riding that CCP hate wagon son, it'll make ya look cooool! Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 370	Posted - 2014.12.25 19:03:00 - [26] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team Yeah I agree. Our capability is greatly reduced because some tryhard cant stand the idea of someone in a heavy suit getting the occasional 10WP. Instead of coming up with a half and half solution (equipment stays, but WP is not collected), we just get shut down completely. The logic was its "to improve framerate and stop spam", but we have since seen neither has happened. Now the real reasons seems to be "pick a role and keep it". If thats the case, the logi community should push for more restrictions on suit switching. You shouldn't be able to switch from a scout to a double swarm commando and then back. Or an assault that runs up to a depot and switches to a HMG to attack approaching enemies. If picking a role and keeping it is so important, we should make sure everyone else is held to it too.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5576	Posted - 2014.12.25 19:19:00 - [27] - Quote I love it, although I've literally noticed zero difference. It hasn't affected me as a logi at all. I wish they could make elevated uplinks require more bandwidth. I saw a dude single handedly ruin a pub the other day. He kept throwing out uplinks on high. Blues were spawning on the 5 or 6 uplinks randomly. Spreading out the team and they were getting farmed as they dropped down. Most just stayed up there. I saw a dude shooting an SMG from about 200 meters on a tower. I tried getting proper uplinks out but the crap uplinks spread everyone out too much. My uplinks would killed killed quickly. No place to push from. I messaged the dude afterward and he couldn't see how damaging they were to the match. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 291	Posted - 2014.12.25 19:26:00 - [28] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team Your logical fallacy is... false equivalence! When you swap from heavy to scout, you stop helping your team as a heavy and start helping your team as a scout. When you swap from scout to assault, you stop helping your team as a scout and start helping your team as an assault. If you swap from logi to AV, you should stop helping your team as a logi and start helping your team as AV End of story. 1. Missing the point as usual - The Logi is the only suit that can put down a range of equipment because that is its sole purpose in this game espc for the Amarr and Caldari who have bonuses for deployable equipment if i put down a box then change into jeans it doesnt disappear now does it? 2. If i swap from Logi to AV then im adapting to the situation at hand, why is the logi punished for helping the team out when needed? no other class is punished if they swap from one role to another, its called teamwork but only the logi is not allowed to take part 3. So lets say if you start as heavy you stay as heavy and ll the same for the commando/scout and assault - That means the supply depot should be changed so you cannot swap roles at all while in the match, you can only swap when you are dead and have to respawn 4. Lag is still about anyway and on the usual maps 5. If it was about WP farming then simple - If you swap to another class you stop gaining WP from the equip you put down
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 3008	Posted - 2014.12.25 19:47:00 - [29] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team Yeah I agree. Our capability is greatly reduced because some tryhard cant stand the idea of someone in a heavy suit getting the occasional 10WP. Instead of coming up with a half and half solution (equipment stays, but WP is not collected), we just get shut down completely. The logic was its "to improve framerate and stop spam", but we have since seen neither has happened. Now the real reasons seems to be "pick a role and keep it". If thats the case, the logi community should push for more restrictions on suit switching. You shouldn't be able to switch from a scout to a double swarm commando and then back. Or an assault that runs up to a depot and switches to a HMG to attack approaching enemies. If picking a role and keeping it is so important, we should make sure everyone else is held to it too. "Doing both roles at once" was mentioned by Rattati when the change was coming through. Framerate was the primary pushing point though. In truth, it doesn't really matter what the reason was if it is still an understandable change/idea. Henry Ford could have said "the assembly line is only good for automobiles and is terrible for everything else!" on his deathbed and it wouldn't change the fact that it was still a good idea. I don't see how a Logistics capability has been reduced. You are able to help out your team in the role of "Mr. Equipment" as long as you stay as you stay as a Logistic suit. If you swap to a different suit, you are no longer being a Logistic role. Same goes for the Scout, Assault, or Heavy. You can all swap back just fine. It seems the only viable complaints that can be made are: 1. Logistics requires more setup than the other roles. 2. Logistics/Support is so very passive. Both are true. While AV, Heavies, Assaults, and Scouts do need to get into position to do their role most optimally, a Logistics suit that can't throw down their equipment is a complete non-factor. For any other FPS I have played, Logistics in this game is the most passive of any role with the possible exception of the Engineer from TF2 but even they have to more actively guard their equipment. This would require CCP to look into the Logistics class as a whole. However: I would argue that is now possible when before it was not. If you have a class that is all about the Equipment but they have the ability to throw it down and than do another role, that role cannot be worked on for the problems it has because no one is really staying in that role. Now that you are "forced to stay a Logistics", the problems can be worked on. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Stupid Blueberry Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm 773	Posted - 2014.12.25 19:55:00 - [30] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: If you're gonna be a logi, you're gonna stay a logi. Get over it. 1. If you're gonna be a heavy, you're gonna stay a heavy until you dont need to be and can swap to scout to flank at anytime you want with no punishment 2. If you're gonna be a assault, you're gonna stay a assault until you dont need to be and can swap to heavy to help AV a vehicle 3. If you're gonna be a scout, you're gonna stay a scout until you dont need to be and can swap assault to help a quick push to the objective 4. You are punished for being logi because you cannot at all swap to another role to help out the team Your logical fallacy is... false equivalence! When you swap from heavy to scout, you stop helping your team as a heavy and start helping your team as a scout. When you swap from scout to assault, you stop helping your team as a scout and start helping your team as an assault. If you swap from logi to AV, you should stop helping your team as a logi and start helping your team as AV End of story. 1. Missing the point as usual - The Logi is the only suit that can put down a range of equipment because that is its sole purpose in this game espc for the Amarr and Caldari who have bonuses for deployable equipment if i put down a box then change into jeans it doesnt disappear now does it? 2. If i swap from Logi to AV then im adapting to the situation at hand, why is the logi punished for helping the team out when needed? no other class is punished if they swap from one role to another, its called teamwork but only the logi is not allowed to take part 3. So lets say if you start as heavy you stay as heavy and ll the same for the commando/scout and assault - That means the supply depot should be changed so you cannot swap roles at all while in the match, you can only swap when you are dead and have to respawn 4. Lag is still about anyway and on the usual maps 5. If it was about WP farming then simple - If you swap to another class you stop gaining WP from the equip you put down ok.... first shot... 1: False attribution 2: False equivalence 3: Appeal to ridicule 4: Mind projection 5: Argument to moderation Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Haajakin Kalen.



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