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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2420
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Posted - 2014.12.24 16:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:It seems like it would make much more sense for Warbarges to be a corp owned asset and have these personal bonuses be something that applies to your merc quarters. When you join a corporation you then can move your merc quarters aboard the corp-owned barge. I'm thinking one of the factors strongly motivating CCP's warbarge proposal is to have the barges act as a gate on alt corps/locking and and other PC shenanigans from the past.
Corp-owned warbarges wouldn't do that.
I don't necessarily agree with CCP's approach here, but i can see the attraction.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2420
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Posted - 2014.12.24 19:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:While I agree that a metric to measure actual activity would be very useful for removing, at least somewhat , blatant alt corporations and related shenanigans from planetary conquest, for what it's worth. I would entreat you to not confuse the current loyalty rank system with such a metric. Implementing a minimum required activity level for a corporation to enter PC will fail massively as a way to say, stop people from creating alt corporations to lock districts with, if the mechanic can be easily spoofed by just spending a handful of aurum... Particularly when, with the implementation of simple trading, any AUR spent on items on even a completely throw away alt isn't even wasted. Agree. Loyalty rank is the wrong metric.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2420
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Posted - 2014.12.24 19:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:While I would love to see War Barges be something that EVE players can interact with, I think it is unnecessary at this point in the design phase. We need War Barges to work properly before we let people blow them up, you know? Agree. At this point in DUST's developement, warbareges should be thought of as an abstract game mechanic. It is totally unrealistic(and undesireable) to implement them in EVE.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2422
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Posted - 2014.12.25 07:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Posting something here from an ancient thread. It didn't get much traction then but we have a new regime now so worth another shot. The whole thread is worth re-reading tbh.
The most fundamental point in designing PC for playability, relevancy and with the ability to engage the entire DUST population is how we motivate PC. Game-designer hubris can be a real danger here, we need a way to keep complex systems/game modes grounded:
A'Real Fury wrote:A few quicks thoughts. Sorry if it has been mentioned before as this is a pretty long thread. Outside of ideological reasons I think a lot of wars are fought over resources i.e you lack something you need or want something somebody else has. Now to avoid nap fests going on too long you can limit the amount of resources that can be derived from a given district by gradually reducing the amount of it available until you hit a minimum baseline. This would result in a weakness that others can exploit, particularly if you link resource consumption to battles. The more fights in your district, even if you win, will result in repairs needing to be made and disruption to production. This could allow small corps or even individuals into Sovereign wars as they could be used for hit and run tactics, smash and grabs, and espionage to test out or even create instability into the system. Also resource reduction will result in these static corps moving onto greener pastures. Once this district has changed hands the new corp could use new "methods" to gradually increase production to where it was before it gradually declines again. With large corps employing small, deniable asset, corps in a low intensity war with sovereign nations will eventually lead to all out large scale conflicts because those nations will only see their resources being depleted through equipment loss etc. These small corps could also use low cost militia gear attacks with the intent to damage production and equipment with little Isk cost to them. This way the small corps can stay profitable because their costs are very limited and the big corp/nation can employ lots of them to attack districts etc. Within district attacks you could even reduce it to attacking specific building e.g the building where the corp stores some or a lot of their tanks which could then be destroyed or even stolen, though more likely to steal dropsuits, weapons , modules or even the resource being produced. I think it would be interesting to have specific skills available that would allow a player to increase resources that could be derived from that district making them particulary valuable to corps who want to hold districts even to the point of hiring them away from their current corps or skills like sabotage/high explosives to allow players to create a disproportionate amount of damage in sneak or hit and run campaigns. Hopefully these possibilities would result in a more fluid battle environment. Vrain Matari wrote:^ This is the point exactly. +1.
It's the underlying resource politics that need to inform the discussion of mechanics. This is how you build a system for longevity and playability. These systems need to be built fron the bottom up if they are to have any kind of coherent structure to them.
If you make the design error of trying to paste an arbitrary set of mechanics onto an underlying set of resource mechanics what I'd expecty you to end up with is a system with inherent pathologies.
Done right, player actions are driven and connected to real politics and hence other players, and not merely driven by max/min-ing a ruleset.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2430
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Posted - 2014.12.26 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
TL:DR at bottom.
A primary design goal for a conquest/defend gamemode with persistence in a lobby FPS is balancing the innate advantage held by a small group of strong FPSers.
Our current system is in effect gifting small but strong corps the pass at Thermopylae for every battle. Furthermore the current implementation of Genolution clone packs allows that pass at Thermopylae to be teleported to every battle, offensive or defensive, close to home or far away.
In more open-world games(e.g. EVE), the zerg can balance the elites. That's not an option in DUST. But alternative balancing mechanics are possible: Financial/logistical limits to empire-building or other mechanics. We're going to have to propose & debate various mechanics meant to balance the power of small groups of strong players.
While we do this we'll need to keep in mind other important goals for Planetary Conquest:
- Immersion in and eventual integration with New Eden/EVE
- Broad participation by the DUST playerbase
- Meaningful gameplay, independent of the New Eden/EVE connection
- Gameplay that cannot be 'gamed' to avoid battles, e.g. district locking and timer games
- Rewarding, but not in a way that will unbalance Pubs
- Make a system where the players generate the content along with outrageous stories to boot
- Most importantly, fun. Challenging and engaging are also pretty much necessities for the premier gamemode that is meant to distinguish DUST from the common shooter.
It's a big ask to satisfy that list of criteria in a game as complex as DUST.
My take on CCP's 'personal warbarge' mechanic is that it's meant to address the issues in the above list. What i don't like about it is that it's a set of meta rules imposed on top of the already broken PC game mechanics. Players have pointed out ITT that at a fundamental level the proposed warbarge mechanics won't fix what's broken in PC, and won't bring a broader demographic to PC. Barring more information from CCP, we'll have to find another way.
A kick at the can for meaningful PC
Q. Why PC? What are we fighting for? A. The standard reason for war and atrocity: Strategic Resources extracted from planets. This means 'something' that will allow one corp to beat it's twin corp in a single battle, or seriously challenge a stronger corp. A 'must have' for any PC contender.
Doesn't matter what it is so long as it fits our list of design criteria. I'm going to suggest 'Weaponized Nanites' à la the 'Dust Wars' of Neal Stephenson's 'The Diamond Age'.
The Strategic advantage of 'Nanites': Apply DoT damage/healing to enemy/friendly warbarge or installations or vehicles or dropsuits. We can work out the details later, but it's a simple mechanic and easy to implement.
Please note that these 'Weaponized Nanites' cannot be used for Pubs, because Concord/Empires/Pirates would NUKE THE KITTENFUCK out of anyone who even joked about it.
Keep clones and their production infrastructure for obvious reasons.
Q. How do we handle the ability of the Elite corps to win individual timer-based matches for district ownership? A. We don't - they deserve that district because they are better than you are. If you decide to go mano a mano with them, you're foolish or brave. What we really need is a way to nip at their tendons - a pack of wolves bringing down a bear.
In other words, smaller(6v6, 8v8, 10v10 or 12v12) non-timer non-ownership battles. The outcomes of these pre-battles, if successful, would be persistent infrastructure damage: tacnet degradation, hack/rehack timer changes, RDV delivery times, CRU spawn times, Supply depot resupply rate, steal nanites, steal clones, etc. The debuffs would have to be small, but big enough so that if the district owner lost/noshowed for all pre-battles then they'd definitely feel it during the big timer-based district defense fight. Also, district owners could repair this damage...by spending Nanites ;)
The number of these raid attacks available against a district owner would be a function of the total districts held. Small landholders would have multiple opportuities to raid large landholders, but would face limited raids themselves.
Also, don't forget....if you hold more weaponized Nanites than they do, and you're a solid corp, they're going to have a serious fight on their hands.
Q. How do we get everybody involved? A. We need a contract system, for a couple of reasons.
District owners can contract out defense for those smaller annoying little non-timer pre-battles, or even a big timer-based defense contract if they needed to.
Corps who covet a district could hire smaller corps to harry the district owner with those non-timer pre-battles. Who knows Allies might even attack allies through the contract system, imagine the warroom dramas ;)
Contracts would replace Genolution packs in that small corps could engage in PC anywhere for non-timer based battles. If Clone-stealing was one of the small non-timer battle modes we could get rid of Genpacks altogether. Maybe any corp could have a small 'clone wallet' of say 200 clones or whatever, we can work it out if peeps think this is a good idea.
TL;DR
- Motivate PC via strategic military resources. Resources are 'Weaponized Nanites' and clones. Nanites do DoT damage/healing to MCCs or Installations or Vehicles or Dropsuits. 'Weaponized Nanites' cannot be used outside of PC.
- Add small(6-merc teams or bigger), optional(for the attackers) non-timer tactical battles designed to soften up enemies. Effects would be persistent but repairable with those Weaponized Nanites. More districts = more raid vulnerability.
- Get big corps employing smaller corps for all the above shenanigans: implement a contract system for PC battles.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2431
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Posted - 2014.12.28 03:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I don't believe active bonuses would be the way to go. I'd rather see things like:
VR simulation and mnemonic enhancement area. Adds a bonus to active/passive SP.
Contract filtering computers: higher ISK/LP payouts.
Limited manufacturing: build x fit dropsuits per day or X vehicles.
Salvage drone deployment: better EOM salvage.
Things like this can enhance gameplay without breaking the in game battles and gunplay. Agree Breakin. Although i'm hardcore anti-tiericide, we absolutely do not need another set of bonuses that vets have over noobs.
PSN: RationalSpark
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