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Ares 514 wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

To me it's easy to give a district a window. You can upgrade it for stronger defenses thus allowing the window for attack to be smaller.

Unless you are an idiot you'd set the timers for your corporation's active times. CCP could make certain times used for hiding districts not available (during obvious inactive times for all of Dust). This is the easiest way to ensure that small groups can't control too much land no matter how good they are.

You need to change the whole timer model. Make timers cover much larger periods and make attacks happen within 1 hour etc so you can build a team that's online and launch an attack knowing who you have as well as knowing you won't always be facing the same 16 die hard guys that had 24/48 hours of notice to prepare and get any necessary ringers.

Also, Thor's points about involving B/C teams in PC via new mechanics would breath some fresh life into PC. Districts should flip more and battle lines be more fluid and those are the teams that should bring that to life instead of A team fighting the same A team time and again.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4020	Posted - 2014.12.24 13:57:00 - [1] - Quote So initially Warbarges won't have any Planetary Conquest logistical aspect to them? Also, I see that timers and district overview haven't been expounded on. Any chance to get more info on these things, because at face value it doesn't look like the mechanics for PC are going to be changing much in the next patch. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4022	Posted - 2014.12.24 14:02:00 - [2] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: My first thought and hope is that with our own Warbarges we will be able to move around. I really want some way to get out of the one starbase in one star system. I would love to see mercs moving to differwnt systema and using differwnt local chats. Have to agree that without a icon on the map at least the idea of owning something that doesn't have an actual location seems.... odd. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4023	Posted - 2014.12.24 14:12:00 - [3] - Quote Corbina Ninja wrote: simple trading is too simple but better than nothing Looks like CCP is going to introduce one the easiest way to scam in New Eden. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4023	Posted - 2014.12.24 14:45:00 - [4] - Quote It seems like it would make much more sense for Warbarges to be a corp owned asset and have these personal bonuses be something that applies to your merc quarters. When you join a corporation you then can move your merc quarters aboard the corp-owned barge. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4029	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:10:00 - [5] - Quote One question I have is will you be able to trade BPOs, Boosters, and Salvage boxes? Are certain items going to be untradeable? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4029	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:28:00 - [6] - Quote STYLIE77 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I would suggest to require moving your warbarge to above the district before you can initiate attack, and have that move take time depending on distance. Battles shouldn't happen from thin air, you should be required to move your forces. They scrapped so much of those mechanics that they envisioned and shared with us sadly... but I agree with you. "One Universe, One War" ... is but a memory now... Even if the barge "moves" it doesn't have to be an Eve asset, which is off the table right now from everything I can tell and that's okay. A barge really should be corp owned and have a location on the star map at the very least. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4034	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:41:00 - [7] - Quote Something that I really hope doesn't get missed is adding an ability to transfer a district from one corp to another outside of combat. It's something that has been missing from this game for a long time. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4034	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:46:00 - [8] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: In my opinion making these attackable in Eve would be a TERRIBLE idea. There's just not enough interest overall for there to be the type of Eve support necessary to protect such assets. You'd end up needing every single Dust interested Eve pilot fighting together to make PC possible. Totally agree with this point in the initial phase. Later on this could be revisited I'm sure. Also, speaking barges why not instead of just warbarge modules have modules for districts as well (in addition to the very hamfisted surface infastructure bonuses)? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4038	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:55:00 - [9] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Just glad that you good people have a clearer idea of what some of the terms in the roadmap Trello now mean. One of the things I'm most looking forward to is a greater sense of being in a Corporation that these features should help usher in. It's always been my hope that a stronger feeling of brotherhood, for lack of a better term, be created and easily maintained by CEO and directors. One of my biggest annoyances about the PC mechanic as it was and still is at the moment, is the fact it was largely an elite few fighting for their own gain and not contributing to the larger corperation membership. Stronger corps in the game are the silver bullet when it comes to player retention. New UI such as corp adverts and finders should help tell new players about player run corps and the benefits they have over the NPC ones. I know I'm speaking for the rest of the CPM when I say we're looking forward to your feedback on all this. At the same time talent pooling is a very real and problematic part of planetary conquest even today. One of my concerns is that by giving 'corp-wide' bonuses to compel people into corps you could very well end up with a stronger incentive for the 'elite' to all just aggregate into one super corp. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4040	Posted - 2014.12.24 16:34:00 - [10] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Kain Spero wrote: At the same time talent pooling is a very real and problematic part of planetary conquest even today. One of my concerns is that by giving 'corp-wide' bonuses to compel people into corps you could very well end up with a stronger incentive for the 'elite' to all just aggregate into one super corp. That is a shared concern. But what has been described so far is very much a generalisation of the warbarge concept. There is more depth to it but it's for CCP to speak more to that when they're ready. Let me put it this way, my general dissatisfaction with the mechanic and the increasingly large amounts of player burnout that PC brought with it, is what caused me to pull D-UNI out of it. I'm actually considering a return to Molden Heath once this all goes live because I believe it will benefit player retention and increase the number of corps fighting PC, not diminish it. Keep what you kill sounds like a good plan, but if CCP doesn't address clones being your source of income and your tool of war you will end up with a lot of the same problems. Also, if these barges don't have a location on the map then how does that address force projection? Modifying clone loss mechanics for districts just forces everyone to break out a spreadsheet for when they are going to launch attacks. CCP should really look at the barge being what you use to launch attacks unless you are fighting from district to district on the same planet. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

Kain Spero Goonfeet 4044	Posted - 2014.12.24 17:44:00 - [11] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: While I agree that a metric to measure actual activity would be very useful for removing, at least somewhat , blatant alt corporations and related shenanigans from planetary conquest, for what it's worth. I would entreat you to not confuse the current loyalty rank system with such a metric. Implementing a minimum required activity level for a corporation to enter PC will fail massively as a way to say, stop people from creating alt corporations to lock districts with, if the mechanic can be easily spoofed by just spending a handful of aurum... Particularly when, with the implementation of simple trading, any AUR spent on items on even a completely throw away alt isn't even wasted. Couldn't agree more with this. And trying to lock items to a character would be a crappy way to prevent something like this. If you are going to have trading let it be open. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4057	Posted - 2014.12.27 00:25:00 - [12] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: To me it's easy to give a district a window. You can upgrade it for stronger defenses thus allowing the window for attack to be smaller. Unless you are an idiot you'd set the timers for your corporation's active times. CCP could make certain times used for hiding districts not available (during obvious inactive times for all of Dust). This is the easiest way to ensure that small groups can't control too much land no matter how good they are. You need to change the whole timer model. Make timers cover much larger periods and make attacks happen within 1 hour etc so you can build a team that's online and launch an attack knowing who you have as well as knowing you won't always be facing the same 16 die hard guys that had 24/48 hours of notice to prepare and get any necessary ringers. Also, Thor's points about involving B/C teams in PC via new mechanics would breath some fresh life into PC. Districts should flip more and battle lines be more fluid and those are the teams that should bring that to life instead of A team fighting the same A team time and again. I think what is needed is to have different types of attacks that follow different timer rules. I do agree that timers should be set to a 2 to 4 hour span instead of the current 1 hour attack window. Attacks that happen in less than 24 hours should be fights to steal production from the districts (clones, resources, etc.) while I think that attacks for ownership should still occur with at least a 23 hour heads up. One of the reasons the A-teams are always used is because the stakes for battles are to the extreme (district ownership) and if you have lower stakes battles in PC it would give the opportunity for B/C teams to make a show. Also, I think removing clone packs and replacing them with a corp-owned Warbarge that generates clones over time will do wonders to increase accessibility. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4062	Posted - 2014.12.28 02:10:00 - [13] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Two quick comments: - Personally I don't think I will look into PC as long as timers are a thing that exist. I'm just not that committed to Dust to schedule a match. Take that feedback for what it is, a subjective opinion. - What is the purpose of the Warbarge-concept? What I personally read is that I will be granted a bonus over new players. More so if I team up with other vets on the new players. Is that the intent? If not, what exactly is the intent behind Warbarges? I really don't see the barge granted in-match bonuses as being acceptable (more damage, more ammo, more health, etc.) for this exact reason. Also, a personally owned barge is a really dumb idea and everyone running around with a capital ship in their pocket seems just plain silly (a personal ship maybe). A corp-owned asset that provides logistical bonuses in Planetary Conquest, LP bonuses in Faction Warfare, Salvage Bonuses in Pub matches, etc. I could see. Upgrading your merc quarters or your personal Merc vessel (not a personal capital ship, c'mon it's just silly) in this sort of End of Match vein I could see. In this vein I see Agent Jara actually as a good example of a personal upgrade and the direction the kinds of bonuses should take. On the point of timers. Because we are in a lobby shooter you have to have some element of scheduling because having an empty fight when you are trying to get a fight really isn't that exciting or having all of your stuff taken while you are asleep isn't compelling gameplay. Timer windows would make much more sense (2-4 hours) and be tied to district resource production. One of the reasons passive ISK generation was such a bad element of gameplay was because the output didn't scale with activity level. Districts need to produce something of value that is separate from clones and this needs to be actively extracted. While this extraction is occurring players with a Corp Warbarge in range (or maybe just anyone with a Corp Warbarge) can raid this extraction in order to steal the resources. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4062	Posted - 2014.12.28 02:16:00 - [14] - Quote Reserved to explain active resource game mode (using either domination or skirmish). Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4088	Posted - 2014.12.29 06:32:00 - [15] - Quote Rattati, it just seems like the personally owned item and Corp owned barge should have different nomenclature. Also, while personal vessels and Corp-owned barges don't need a location in eve online for now I think a location conveyed on the dust star map and gameplay associated with that is needed to truly make these assets feel like home. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4089	Posted - 2014.12.29 07:23:00 - [16] - Quote I guess my question is then is it possible to give the flotilla a location for the purpose of limiting the range of clone packs launched from them or other planetary conquest game play mechanics? Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4096	Posted - 2014.12.29 23:51:00 - [17] - Quote I would say that the social in Dust is the strongest of any FPS on console already. I think it's important to drive players towards corporations, but we can't loose sight that those corporations need something for those players to DO as a corporation to actually keep people logging in for that social. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4099	Posted - 2014.12.30 05:30:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: I guess my question is then is it possible to give the flotilla a location for the purpose of limiting the range of clone packs launched from them or other planetary conquest game play mechanics? That is a good idea for making logistics work, clone packs should be good to get a foothold but not sustainable. Some form of distance formula penalty from warbarge using clonepacks would make sense. Then reinstill the movement penalties on land, and then the whole system starts working as intended, i.e. investments in infrastructure to overcome logistic penalties, just like war. Having location matter will really be key to getting planetary conquest humming like a well oiled machine. It might be worthwhile to examine replacing messy clone loss mechanics with load clones from district to barge/flotilla (or have barge generate clones via the vat if you have no districts) then move barge/flotilla in range of targets. Instead of range (movement) costing clones potentially have it cost fuel. Trying to figure out how many clones were actually going to land for a fight back in the old days of planetary conquest was a pain and I'd hate to see that return. I think the list of targets you mention could work well with this. Select the flotilla and get a list of targets in range according to filters the player sets. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Goonfeet 4131	Posted - 2015.01.03 11:15:00 - [19] - Quote One of the other things that caught my eye in the road map was the idea of fixed timers. My understanding from taking to the CPM is that these fixed timers would work just as they do today except you can never adjust them. The current timers would be scrambled and randomized based on the average % of active players online in a given hour, so basically any current district holdings would be nullified. All of this to remove the function of 'hiding' a district from attack. Probably the only real 'abuser' of timer 'hiding' is Nyain San and their ownership share has been decreasing steadily since it's height of over 40% in General Tso down to 20% today with the removal of most passive ISK. Some folks are so keen to fix this problem they seem willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. Forcing players into a system that removes their ability to set a time when they feel best capable of playing on the land they own because of a minority of players trying to game the system seems like a vast overreaction. Adding reasonable rules on how timers can be changed? Sure. Removing the ability of adjusting your land's timer entirely? Heck no Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news