DUST Search - Proficiency, it needs to change

Pokey Dravon wrote:

The True Inferno wrote:

Personally, I would rather have this up to the community, but my idea for it would be, proficiency would help make up for some of a weapons drawbacks.

An example would be that the RR proficiency gave a large reduction to kick or charge time, or a smaller bonus that reduced both kick and charge time. Another example would be that the AR proficiency gave a increase in the weapons range and a decrease in kick.

The problem is that most of those drawbacks are countered by the Weapon Operation skill, or other weapon skills such as Sharpshooter, so having proficiency do the same would not really be a beneficial skill to train, not to mention I would hate the redundancy.

I mean, I get what you're trying to say, but with that logic, many of the core skills make little sense. Like Engineering or Electronics...being skilled at using a suit wouldn't make it suddenly have better processing power or powergrid, right? Or Being used to using Armor or Shields...would not innately make them have 25% more HP, right? I typically subscribe to the idea that the skill allows the merc to modify the weapon/suit thus boosting its performance, because that logic works for the suit and weapons.I think this is just a case where...you can't let lore or a strict sense of realism dictate what makes a game perform properly, you know?

Also if you're worried about NPE and Proficiency, be happy that our Operation and Proficiency Skills are unlike EVE. Typically Operation is a +5% Damage/Lvl and Proficiency is a +2% RoF/Lvl

Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

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The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 123	Posted - 2014.12.23 12:02:00 - [1] - Quote Proficiency. It's one of the largest factors in affecting and multiplying the force of imbalance. It-ágives a direct advantage to veterans over new players (ignouring the proto we usually stomp them with). It's an incredibly mundane skill, simply granting increased damage of a damage type. It's a venom that Dust needs purging from, that or, needs to be morphed into a more engaging skill that creates a sort of synergy within the battlefield, a anti-venom if you will. ScP = GÖÑ If you like chiptune An Ace Pilot
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4852	Posted - 2014.12.23 13:40:00 - [2] - Quote To? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
ScI-Iurk Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.12.23 14:04:00 - [3] - Quote +1 I think the prof skill is sort of boring but essential. Some kind of skill drain / barrier.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4086	Posted - 2014.12.23 15:20:00 - [4] - Quote What would you change it to? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5561	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:28:00 - [5] - Quote Proficiency was already nerfed heavily and now only provides a 6% to 9% overall advantage at level 5 depending on the Shield/Armour configuration of the suit you are facing. If you have a clever alternative to recommend, that would be an interesting discussion, but I see no point in discussing its removal if you have no ideas as to what to replace it with. The Proficiency skill rewards specialization in a weapon. That is a good thing. If everyone could use every weapon equally well, the game would not be as interesting. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4087	Posted - 2014.12.23 16:33:00 - [6] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Proficiency was already nerfed heavily and now only provides a 6% to 9% overall advantage at level 5 depending on the Shield/Armour configuration of the suit you are facing. If you have a clever alternative to recommend, that would be an interesting discussion, but I see no point in discussing its removal if you have no ideas as to what to replace it with. The Proficiency skill rewards specialization in a weapon. That is a good thing. If everyone could use every weapon equally well, the game would not be as interesting. Fox is completely correct. Damage profile only matters in the HP difference between shields and armor so when the proficiency only affects a certain side of the profile, the effect is noticeable but often overestimated. I mean if I have Scrambler Rifle Proficiency V....does that really help me much against an Amarr Sentinel that's entirely brick tanked? If you have a better alternative I'd love to hear it, but unless a better idea presents itself, I think the current iteration is reasonable. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 695	Posted - 2014.12.23 17:37:00 - [7] - Quote Proficiency effecting damage never made much since to me, how does me being familure with the weapon affect how much damage each shot does??? I would rather it affect reload speed (minor bonus on top of current reload bonus) and dispersion. Now for dispersion it would not affect min and max dispersion but the increase and decrease up to the min and max amount already in place for the gun. Also decreasing the dispersion penalty for standing, walking, strafing, and jumping. This would allow high damage application dependent on player skill. With this a "a" player without profecency could apply as much damage as a "c" player with lvl 5 profecency. Link to how dispersion works Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
ScI-Iurk Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.12.23 17:44:00 - [8] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Proficiency was already nerfed heavily and now only provides a 6% to 9% overall advantage at level 5 depending on the Shield/Armour configuration of the suit you are facing. I don't think you can say this because you adopt the handicap of related things straight to the rifle damage profile. While this skill gives you an 15% more damaging weapon. It doesn't matter what target or used gun are. Then to say what could be a different option for the skill is indeed harder. I would say modifying the gun would be a much more reasonable benefit. CCP has talked in the past about the possibility to modify weapons. I don't know if this is a possibility now with where the game stands right now but it would be very nice. Think things like different scopes, range modifiers, clip size, ammo types and different auto fire / burst options. Similar to the different versions of the rifles but with more room for personal preferences.
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 129	Posted - 2014.12.23 23:26:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Proficiency was already nerfed heavily and now only provides a 6% to 9% overall advantage at level 5 depending on the Shield/Armour configuration of the suit you are facing. If you have a clever alternative to recommend, that would be an interesting discussion, but I see no point in discussing its removal if you have no ideas as to what to replace it with. The Proficiency skill rewards specialization in a weapon. That is a good thing. If everyone could use every weapon equally well, the game would not be as interesting. Fox is completely correct. Damage profile only matters in the HP difference between shields and armor so when the proficiency only affects a certain side of the profile, the effect is noticeable but often overestimated. I mean if I have Scrambler Rifle Proficiency V....does that really help me much against an Amarr Sentinel that's entirely brick tanked? If you have a better alternative I'd love to hear it, but unless a better idea presents itself, I think the current iteration is reasonable. Personally, I would rather have this up to the community, but my idea for it would be, proficiency would help make up for some of a weapons drawbacks. An example would be that the RR proficiency gave a large reduction to kick or charge time, or a smaller bonus that reduced both kick and charge time. Another example would be that the AR proficiency gave a increase in the weapons range and a decrease in kick. ScP = GÖÑ Burst AR all the way! An Ace Pilot
Heimdallr69 Amarr Templars 4029	Posted - 2014.12.23 23:48:00 - [10] - Quote Sp refund incoming.. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1511	Posted - 2014.12.24 01:17:00 - [11] - Quote Changed to what? You haven't offered any suggestions to the perceived problem... Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job... Armor has always been bad.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1574	Posted - 2014.12.24 04:25:00 - [12] - Quote COD / BF / HALO 514 , let's then get all the suits to have the same performance and stats , along with the weapons and vehicle's . Then no one would have anything to complain about and nothing would set this game from the average and the norm but , hey ... who care's about that , right ? Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
ScI-Iurk Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 30	Posted - 2014.12.24 09:06:00 - [13] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: COD / BF / HALO 514 , let's then get all the suits to have the same performance and stats , along with the weapons and vehicle's . Then no one would have anything to complain about and nothing would set this game from the average and the norm but , hey ... who care's about that , right ? That's not the point here genius. Just that the prof is now too important to take for new player. I consider it over powered. Other people seem to consider it a smaller buff. I'm all for experience and skills. I think some are just to limiting to new players and vets alike. Thats why I think the prof skill should have less of an impact. And thats why I'm for a form of tiercide. Skills have to have an impact, just a different / smaller one.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1574	Posted - 2014.12.24 10:23:00 - [14] - Quote ScI-Iurk wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: COD / BF / HALO 514 , let's then get all the suits to have the same performance and stats , along with the weapons and vehicle's . Then no one would have anything to complain about and nothing would set this game from the average and the norm but , hey ... who care's about that , right ? That's not the point here genius. Just that the prof is now too important to take for new player. I consider it over powered. Other people seem to consider it a smaller buff. I'm all for experience and skills. I think some are just to limiting to new players and vets alike. Thats why I think the prof skill should have less of an impact. And thats why I'm for a form of tiercide. Skills have to have an impact, just a different / smaller one. It is the point , as CCP thought up skills , the mechanics there in and the effects that said mechanics would have in it's over all structure and impact on the battlefield . I'm no Genius as your trying to insult me in a snide way , but I understand why and how Pro benefits this game and so does most that have commented already . Read what Fox said , I think that most who play this game can agree . Your trying to make this game vanilla and bland . COD / BF / HALO . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1152	Posted - 2014.12.24 11:29:00 - [15] - Quote How about no. Proficiency hasn't been a balance issue in the game for a long, long time. It's perfectly fine. HP mods, on the other hand... Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5594	Posted - 2014.12.24 12:49:00 - [16] - Quote ScI-Iurk wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Proficiency was already nerfed heavily and now only provides a 6% to 9% overall advantage at level 5 depending on the Shield/Armour configuration of the suit you are facing. I don't think you can say this because you adopt the handicap of related things straight to the rifle damage profile. While this skill gives you an 15% more damaging weapon. It doesn't matter what target or used gun are. Proficiency gives a Rail Rifle 0% additional damage against Shields. Proficiency gives a Scrambler Rifle 0% additional damage against Armor. Since all suits have both Armor and Shields your statement that "this skill gives you an 15% more damaging weapon" is inaccurate. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1147	Posted - 2014.12.24 13:49:00 - [17] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: ScI-Iurk wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Proficiency was already nerfed heavily and now only provides a 6% to 9% overall advantage at level 5 depending on the Shield/Armour configuration of the suit you are facing. I don't think you can say this because you adopt the handicap of related things straight to the rifle damage profile. While this skill gives you an 15% more damaging weapon. It doesn't matter what target or used gun are. Proficiency gives a Rail Rifle 0% additional damage against Shields. Proficiency gives a Scrambler Rifle 0% additional damage against Armor. Since all suits have both Armor and Shields your statement that "this skill gives you an 15% more damaging weapon" is inaccurate. Yeah DPS is increased with levels in Proficiency, but not 100% of the maximum (15% at L5) coz as you say, mercs have both shields and armour. Whether that's a big enough increase to be something that shouldn't exist I'm not sure. Let's face it the name of the skill (proficiency) can be applied to any of the other skills that affect the same weapon. Sharpshooter skills for example - those make your more proficient with the gun. So do the others...clip size, heat build-up etc. So to make it valid (if it isn't already, although it should be called "Damage profile" or something) you need a new skill. Having it affect an existing skill just makes the skill pointless...might as well roll it into the existing skill. You could add a skill that lowers the CPU or PG (depending which one already exists). Or what about crazy **** along the lines of it makes the cost of each weapon cheaper, or the # nanites required to replenish it lower? You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Arcadiia Kain The Naughty Ninjas 0	Posted - 2014.12.24 14:06:00 - [18] - Quote I see it as flawed. In a game where armor tanking is much more viable than shield tanking, pro5 Rails is benificial. On the other hand, its a completely wasted skill on a scrambler that already pops the shield of most suits in a single charged shot, yet I have to get pro4 just to get to fitting bonuses. Lasers? Wasted. It eats shields almost instantly. Shotguns? It actually helps a little since a single shot can tear through both shield and armor. Proficency caters to the armor profile. In the current state of the game, it IS unbalanced. This has been a point of conversation in many squads ive been in. You could make the claim that this is only because most players choose not to shield tank, but then it becomes an issue of tanking styles not being balanced. The cycle ensues. It would be perfectly fine if shield tanking were more viable. Oh, and just so there is no mistake on where im coming from... im stubborn and prefer to shield tank. The Naughty Ninjas CEO Minmatar scout/assault
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4126	Posted - 2014.12.24 15:09:00 - [19] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: Personally, I would rather have this up to the community, but my idea for it would be, proficiency would help make up for some of a weapons drawbacks. An example would be that the RR proficiency gave a large reduction to kick or charge time, or a smaller bonus that reduced both kick and charge time. Another example would be that the AR proficiency gave a increase in the weapons range and a decrease in kick. The problem is that most of those drawbacks are countered by the Weapon Operation skill, or other weapon skills such as Sharpshooter, so having proficiency do the same would not really be a beneficial skill to train, not to mention I would hate the redundancy. I mean, I get what you're trying to say, but with that logic, many of the core skills make little sense. Like Engineering or Electronics...being skilled at using a suit wouldn't make it suddenly have better processing power or powergrid, right? Or Being used to using Armor or Shields...would not innately make them have 25% more HP, right? I typically subscribe to the idea that the skill allows the merc to modify the weapon/suit thus boosting its performance, because that logic works for the suit and weapons.I think this is just a case where...you can't let lore or a strict sense of realism dictate what makes a game perform properly, you know? Also if you're worried about NPE and Proficiency, be happy that our Operation and Proficiency Skills are unlike EVE. Typically Operation is a +5% Damage/Lvl and Proficiency is a +2% RoF/Lvl "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
ScI-Iurk Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 33	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:25:00 - [20] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: ScI-Iurk wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Proficiency was already nerfed heavily and now only provides a 6% to 9% overall advantage at level 5 depending on the Shield/Armour configuration of the suit you are facing. I don't think you can say this because you adopt the handicap of related things straight to the rifle damage profile. While this skill gives you an 15% more damaging weapon. It doesn't matter what target or used gun are. Proficiency gives a Rail Rifle 0% additional damage against Shields. Proficiency gives a Scrambler Rifle 0% additional damage against Armor. Since all suits have both Armor and Shields your statement that "this skill gives you an 15% more damaging weapon" is inaccurate. I stand corrected. I thought the skill worked differently but Fox Gaden is right and it only effects shield or armor and never both. My appologies for the disinformation. I should have prepared my material better before arguing with the teacherGÇª

ScI-Iurk Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 33	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:26:00 - [21] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: ScI-Iurk wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: COD / BF / HALO 514 , let's then get all the suits to have the same performance and stats , along with the weapons and vehicle's . Then no one would have anything to complain about and nothing would set this game from the average and the norm but , hey ... who care's about that , right ? That's not the point here genius. Just that the prof is now too important to take for new player. I consider it over powered. Other people seem to consider it a smaller buff. I'm all for experience and skills. I think some are just to limiting to new players and vets alike. Thats why I think the prof skill should have less of an impact. And thats why I'm for a form of tiercide. Skills have to have an impact, just a different / smaller one. It is the point , as CCP thought up skills , the mechanics there in and the effects that said mechanics would have in it's over all structure and impact on the battlefield . I'm no Genius as your trying to insult me in a snide way , but I understand why and how Pro benefits this game and so does most that have commented already . Read what Fox said , I think that most who play this game can agree . Your trying to make this game vanilla and bland . COD / BF / HALO . First of all I don't want to offend you I just got annoyed with you putting words in my mouth. I don't want the game to be like COD / BF / HALO. But I''ll try to be more constructive now. I play dust to get away from regular lobby shooters. But dust has a problem with the size of the playerbase right now. If there would be a big diverse playerbase I would have less problems with tiers and essential skills being a barrier. Right now It really hard to get a good match going partly because there are few players and there is a huge time investment required to play on a competetive level. And unfortunatly Dust is still for the most part a regular lobby shooter. There is still a potential for growth on the PS3 but a huge barrier for newberries isn't helping. I've been around for a while so got my core skills maxed and some weapons and armor to choose from. But honestly starting now I would probably just quit and come back after a years worth of passive XP. Its just not fun to lose more than half of the shootouts because other people have higher level skills. Maybe the prof skill is not the place to make the difference for new players. But I think that until there is a huge pool of players there will have to be a lower skill ceiling. And I'm afraid a tiered match system will just spread the players out and have everybody wait longer for matches.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1158	Posted - 2014.12.24 23:17:00 - [22] - Quote ScI-Iurk wrote: I stand corrected. I thought the skill worked differently but Fox Gaden is right and it only effects shield or armor and never both. My appologies for the disinformation. I should have prepared my material better before arguing with the teacherGÇª It did used to be the way you say :) Wasn't changed that long ago. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1516	Posted - 2014.12.24 23:19:00 - [23] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: ScI-Iurk wrote: I stand corrected. I thought the skill worked differently but Fox Gaden is right and it only effects shield or armor and never both. My appologies for the disinformation. I should have prepared my material better before arguing with the teacherGÇª It did used to be the way you say :) Wasn't changed that long ago. 7 months isn't that long ago? Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job... Armor has always been bad.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5604	Posted - 2014.12.25 17:13:00 - [24] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: The True Inferno wrote: Personally, I would rather have this up to the community, but my idea for it would be, proficiency would help make up for some of a weapons drawbacks. An example would be that the RR proficiency gave a large reduction to kick or charge time, or a smaller bonus that reduced both kick and charge time. Another example would be that the AR proficiency gave a increase in the weapons range and a decrease in kick. The problem is that most of those drawbacks are countered by the Weapon Operation skill, or other weapon skills such as Sharpshooter, so having proficiency do the same would not really be a beneficial skill to train, not to mention I would hate the redundancy. I mean, I get what you're trying to say, but with that logic, many of the core skills make little sense. Like Engineering or Electronics...being skilled at using a suit wouldn't make it suddenly have better processing power or powergrid, right? Or Being used to using Armor or Shields...would not innately make them have 25% more HP, right? I typically subscribe to the idea that the skill allows the merc to modify the weapon/suit thus boosting its performance, because that logic works for the suit and weapons.I think this is just a case where...you can't let lore or a strict sense of realism dictate what makes a game perform properly, you know? Also if you're worried about NPE and Proficiency, be happy that our Operation and Proficiency Skills are unlike EVE. Typically Operation is a +5% Damage/Lvl and Proficiency is a +2% RoF/Lvl I agree. The skills that give you a bonus to your suit or weapons mean that you have the knowledge to get more out of your gear. As a real live analogy, if you know what you are doing you can overclock you PC Computer to get more processing speed out of it, but if you donGÇÖt know what you are doing and try that you are libel to melt your CPU and ruin your computer. I assume that the Electronics skill in DUST is almost exactly like that. By training the skill you learn how to override the safeties on the suit and overclock your CPU to get more processing power out of the suit without damaging it. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
ScI-Iurk Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 38	Posted - 2014.12.25 17:55:00 - [25] - Quote Wow that would be cool. Overclocking your suit at the risk of system failure.
DJINN HellFire Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13	Posted - 2014.12.25 19:58:00 - [26] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: Proficiency. It's one of the largest factors in affecting and multiplying the force of imbalance. It-ágives a direct advantage to veterans over new players (ignouring the proto we usually stomp them with). It's an incredibly mundane skill, simply granting increased damage of a damage type. It's a venom that Dust needs purging from, that or, needs to be morphed into a more engaging skill that creates a sort of synergy within the battlefield, a anti-venom if you will. Shut your dirty mouth. How dare you even bring this up. I'm so tired of you 2 week old players whining about the game. All you do is ruin this game crying about stuff like this. How about you just put 1.5m sp into your weapon so you can stop crying. Or how about you go back to call of duty. CEO of Hellstorm Inc.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 570	Posted - 2014.12.26 12:59:00 - [27] - Quote Proficiency should give a handling bonus. 1% reload, 1% dispersion, 1% less feedback damage, etc. Mostly because the name implies getting used to the weapon. Though I guess increased damage is also a logical result of getting better at utilizing a gun. But seriously, proto is much more of an issue than proficiency. Up until now, I've only been using basic, due to ISK concerns. But somehow I'm now floating in cash, so I used a Duvolle for the first time today. I didn't know how much of a difference proto makes. No wonder that proto stompers stomp. I, for one, welcome the idea of meta level locks.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 333	Posted - 2014.12.26 15:04:00 - [28] - Quote With the hugely increased skill cap and further booster multiplication I see no reason for your tears. I started this game when people already had proto, never played beta, struggled through not having an hdmi cable. At the start the game looked like a confusing barren landscape where I had no idea what to do. One day I found a guy with a mic, mad2kill, he was an Amazing tanker and brought into me also the seeds of dropship love. I blossomed from that day, and today, I'll give you a run for your money. What a cute story. Moral is don't give up and don't QQ. "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5586	Posted - 2014.12.26 15:11:00 - [29] - Quote We should make all skills to L5 attainable in 3 days too and remove squading and ISK Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1422	Posted - 2014.12.27 00:27:00 - [30] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: Proficiency. It's one of the largest factors in affecting and multiplying the force of imbalance. It-ágives a direct advantage to veterans over new players (ignouring the proto we usually stomp them with). It's an incredibly mundane skill, simply granting increased damage of a damage type. It's a venom that Dust needs purging from, that or, needs to be morphed into a more engaging skill that creates a sort of synergy within the battlefield, a anti-venom if you will. Tbh i find it confusing as to how upgrading your merc upgrades your weapon. Reload,kick,capacity,etc. are all merc sided. And they show your merc is getting better with that weapon. Yet proficiency is weapon sided. How about changing it to: 1-3 % per level for all the preliminary skills (reload,kick,capacity) So it becomes a merc side upgrade. -or- Have it only have 1 level... And the skill would be... -Able to reload while sprinting. Thoughts? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.



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"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014