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pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1152	Posted - 2014.12.20 11:37:00 - [1] - Quote When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2014.12.20 11:38:00 - [2] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. Scrambler rifle can kill a shield user in under a second. Proto scr prof 3 is what, 100 damage at least? Choo Choo
jade gamester B.A.L.A.M.O.R.Y. G.L.O.R.Y. 69	Posted - 2014.12.20 11:43:00 - [3] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. How often do you see that though? I mean I see most assaults using bar on shield suites. Shield weapons have advantage as they hit the bonus first! However it's advisable to armour stack anymore so taking out armour is alot easier it's balanced kinda, I just want racial suits to use there own weapon! :( What's the story in balamory?
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1179	Posted - 2014.12.20 11:46:00 - [4] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Scrambler rifle can kill a shield user in under a second. Proto scr prof 3 is what, 100 damage at least? 71.5 for a Viziam 71.5 (base) * 1.2 (+20% vs shields) * 1.15 (Prof 5) = 98.67 98.67 * 600 (ROF) / 60 = 986.7 DPS vs Shields 71.5 * 0.8 (-20% vs armour) = 57.2 57.2 * 600 / 60 = 572 DPS vs Armour Assuming 500 Shields/250 Armour that's: 0.506s to strip all shields 0.437s to strip all armour 0.943s to kill. (I may have done a dumb somewhere, so if anyone has the maths down better than I, please correct me.) Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1082	Posted - 2014.12.20 11:49:00 - [5] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. Shield tankers must use speed and distance. Please support fair play!
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1590	Posted - 2014.12.20 11:54:00 - [6] - Quote When the player with a spaghetti cannon and superior gun game meets the oblivious proto wearing spazztard the spaghetti cannon always wins. I'm not going to prove it astrologically. I'm not going to use a ouija board to let ghosts explain this, I lost the plastic bit the ghosts move around. Just something my grandma tells me after the potato soup fueled orgy. Hero of the Amarrinese. Wheeee!
Clone D Grundstein Automation 1129	Posted - 2014.12.20 11:56:00 - [7] - Quote John Psi wrote: Shield tankers must use speed and distance. And cover, to quickly regenerate shield and get back into the action. ISK Trader channel: blitz
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1153	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:09:00 - [8] - Quote John Psi wrote: pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. Shield tankers must use speed and distance. How should a minass with his cr use distance against an amarrass with a SR? One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:14:00 - [9] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Scrambler rifle can kill a shield user in under a second. Proto scr prof 3 is what, 100 damage at least? 71.5 for a Viziam 71.5 (base) * 1.2 (+20% vs shields) * 1.15 (Prof 5) = 98.67 98.67 * 600 (ROF) / 60 = 986.7 DPS vs Shields 71.5 * 0.8 (-20% vs armour) = 57.2 57.2 * 600 / 60 = 572 DPS vs Armour Assuming 500 Shields/250 Armour that's: 0.506s to strip all shields 0.437s to strip all armour 0.943s to kill. (I may have done a dumb somewhere, so if anyone has the maths down better than I, please correct me.) Yep, way too much. Most people use damage mods on the scr too. Choo Choo
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 178	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:16:00 - [10] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. The game was designed this way. You described a fight with no cover, where they both accidentally encounter another, or the shield tanker sees the armor tanker too late and is not close enough to cover and is not far away enough to outrun the enemy. The game has a map which includes cover, shield tankers need to rely on cover more than armor tankers to survive. The armor tankers are front line fighters, they rely on cover slightly less. Which ever opponent uses there playstyle the best, wins and survives. There is only ever 1 survivor. In reality: The shield tanker must out regen the enemy using range and cover and difference in height. (shield tanker must be much higher or much lower in height to increase the distance / effort required for armor tanker to reach the shield tanker) The armor tanker must try to deal as much damage to the shield tanker as possible when the shield guy exposes himself to attack the armor guy. Then the shield tanker must hide in cover to out regen the armor guy and hope that the effort required for armor guy to reach the shield guy is a lot. That allows the shield guy to expose himself again to fire at the armor guy. After regenerating once I can usually kill the armor tanker. (the encounter usually takes 8 to 10 seconds because of armor tankers slower speed). If the armor guy has very similar speed to the shield guy then the shield guy has a chance in a firefight. (both opponents with have very similar total health points). I usually engage enemies at 35m to 90m when im using shield suits. You must have very good aim in order to use shield suits properly (this deters armor tanker from charging and overrunning your position). Otherwise the armor tanker will see you as a small threat and charge at you with 70 to 100% weapon accuracy and obliterate you. Because you convinced him that he had better aiming skills than you. You could fire then run, then fire then run to different cover again but that usually only works in cities with using no biotic mods.

duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:16:00 - [11] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Psi wrote: Shield tankers must use speed and distance. And cover, to quickly regenerate shield and get back into the action. How can you regenerate when right when you fire all your shields are gone again? Choo Choo
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1153	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:24:00 - [12] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Scrambler rifle can kill a shield user in under a second. Proto scr prof 3 is what, 100 damage at least? 71.5 for a Viziam 71.5 (base) * 1.2 (+20% vs shields) * 1.15 (Prof 5) = 98.67 98.67 * 600 (ROF) / 60 = 986.7 DPS vs Shields 71.5 * 0.8 (-20% vs armour) = 57.2 57.2 * 600 / 60 = 572 DPS vs Armour Assuming 500 Shields/250 Armour that's: 0.506s to strip all shields 0.437s to strip all armour 0.943s to kill. (I may have done a dumb somewhere, so if anyone has the maths down better than I, please correct me.) Yep, way too much. Most people use damage mods on the scr too. You forgot charged shot, that destroy your shield in 1 hit. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
LHughes Dead Man's Game RUST415 211	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:31:00 - [13] - Quote jade gamester wrote: pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. How often do you see that though? I mean I see most assaults using bar on shield suites. Shield weapons have advantage as they hit the bonus first! However it's advisable to armour stack anymore so taking out armour is alot easier it's balanced kinda, I just want racial suits to use there own weapon! :( Didn't the tortoise win the race?..... This is a bold signature
LHughes Dead Man's Game RUST415 211	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:35:00 - [14] - Quote Sheid weapons are OP because most people armour tank, therefore people using shield weapons say it needs a buff because it doesn't kill as much as an armour gun. So when a shield gun vs a shield dropsuit it rinses them. Shields don't need a buff.... Most shield guns need a nerf, then you will see more shield users, then the shield guns will become balanced again. This is a bold signature
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 178	Posted - 2014.12.20 12:39:00 - [15] - Quote Every time the shield guy exposes himself and the armor guy attacks (draining your shields) you must also attack him to do some damage (that damage may be smaller but you need to be very accurate, imagine where the enemy is while your behind cover, ''predictive wall hacking'' I call it, you predict where enemy is and fire after exposing yourself, some people do this well) Then you rinse and repeat that shield regen process. Slowly killing him if he has less armor regen If he has a tac AR or SCR, you must wait until another ally attacks him head on, then you attack him together, his SCR may not have enough shots to kill you both. (if your both assault suits with high shields and you don't stay still so you and the ally dodge 30% of all shots) Or you must flank him or get behind him, your faster speed is meant to help you get to cover fast enough that he wont notice you until its too late. Then you must be very accurate to you have a 200 hp or 400 hp damage advantage. You should try to flank and attack from cover.
CrotchGrab 360 1683	Posted - 2014.12.20 13:01:00 - [16] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Scrambler rifle can kill a shield user in under a second. Proto scr prof 3 is what, 100 damage at least? 71.5 for a Viziam 71.5 (base) * 1.2 (+20% vs shields) * 1.15 (Prof 5) = 98.67 98.67 * 600 (ROF) / 60 = 986.7 DPS vs Shields 71.5 * 0.8 (-20% vs armour) = 57.2 57.2 * 600 / 60 = 572 DPS vs Armour Assuming 500 Shields/250 Armour that's: 0.506s to strip all shields 0.437s to strip all armour 0.943s to kill. (I may have done a dumb somewhere, so if anyone has the maths down better than I, please correct me.) hey, since you're good at maths and I am terrible, (and ccp don't care about including stats) could you please tell me how much damage my viziam is doing based on: prof 5, 2 complex damage mods? thanks! DUST VIDEOS
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6493	Posted - 2014.12.20 13:20:00 - [17] - Quote All I know is I'm soloing proto sentinels in my Advanced Minmatar Assault with no issues. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 399	Posted - 2014.12.20 13:51:00 - [18] - Quote A Caldari Heavy can get his shields stripped by an alcoholic with a laser rifle trying to write his name on a building in not even 2 seconds. The State will always survive.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 646	Posted - 2014.12.20 14:04:00 - [19] - Quote Shield tanking is not viable. You either double tank your CalAssault (something like 500-400) or don't expect you'll have an easy match. The ARR TTK on 700-800 armor is huge, so by double tanking it you can also put a damage mod. I for one am still using my pure shield tanked Ck.0. Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1180	Posted - 2014.12.20 14:28:00 - [20] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Scrambler rifle can kill a shield user in under a second. Proto scr prof 3 is what, 100 damage at least? 71.5 for a Viziam 71.5 (base) * 1.2 (+20% vs shields) * 1.15 (Prof 5) = 98.67 * 1.07 (1st Cx DMod) * 1.0602 (2nd Cx DMod) = 111.93 111.93 * 600 (ROF) / 60 = 1119.3 DPS vs Shields 71.5 * 0.8 (-20% vs armour) = 57.2 * 1.07 (1st CxDMod) * 1.0602 (2nd Cx DMod) = 64.89 64.89 * 600 / 60 = 648.9 DPS vs Armour Assuming 500 Shields/250 Armour that's: 0.447s to strip all shields 0.385s to strip all armour 0.832s to kill. (I may have done a dumb somewhere, so if anyone has the maths down better than I, please correct me.) hey, since you're good at maths and I am terrible, (and ccp don't care about including stats) could you please tell me how much damage my viziam is doing based on: prof 5, 2 complex damage mods? thanks! There you go Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 114	Posted - 2014.12.20 14:53:00 - [21] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Shield tanking is not viable. You either double tank your CalAssault (something like 500-400) or don't expect you'll have an easy match. The ARR TTK on 700-800 armor is huge, so by double tanking it you can also put a damage mod. I for one am still using my pure shield tanked Ck.0. I do that too. But it's absolutely pointless, 509 shields goes down faster than anything. Choo Choo
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 311	Posted - 2014.12.20 15:01:00 - [22] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. Agreed. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Colossus of Sardia SWARMYARD 5	Posted - 2014.12.20 15:24:00 - [23] - Quote LHughes wrote: Sheid weapons are OP because most people armour tank, therefore people using shield weapons say it needs a buff because it doesn't kill as much as an armour gun. So when a shield gun vs a shield dropsuit it rinses them. Shields don't need a buff.... Most shield guns need a nerf, then you will see more shield users, then the shield guns will become balanced again. I used to be Caldari everything but when my KD in a pub with a Cal assaut after being Cal since closed beta is 3..... Then I respec into min ass and it becomes 6 overnight by dual tanking (weekly KD still rising as I get better with it)..... Something MUST be wrong. your rise in KD may be something to do with the min assault itself. i find the min assault the hardest enemy to kill on the battlefield. many times they just dance through my HMG without taking noticable damage. i'd rather take on a proto cal sentinel than a adv minmatar assault with my min heavy.
THE MILLIONCLONE CHALLENGE Xer Cloud Consortium 82	Posted - 2014.12.20 15:38:00 - [24] - Quote RemingtonBeaver wrote: When the player with a spaghetti cannon and superior gun game meets the oblivious proto wearing spazztard the spaghetti cannon always wins. I'm not going to prove it astrologically. I'm not going to use a ouija board to let ghosts explain this, I lost the plastic bit the ghosts move around. Just something my grandma tells me after the potato soup fueled orgy. This. K den. Assert dominance is actually a little kid. Assert pocket money. RealityGäó
LHughes Dead Man's Game RUST415 215	Posted - 2014.12.20 15:47:00 - [25] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Scrambler rifle can kill a shield user in under a second. Proto scr prof 3 is what, 100 damage at least? 71.5 for a Viziam 71.5 (base) * 1.2 (+20% vs shields) * 1.15 (Prof 5) = 98.67 98.67 * 600 (ROF) / 60 = 986.7 DPS vs Shields 71.5 * 0.8 (-20% vs armour) = 57.2 57.2 * 600 / 60 = 572 DPS vs Armour Assuming 500 Shields/250 Armour that's: 0.506s to strip all shields 0.437s to strip all armour 0.943s to kill. (I may have done a dumb somewhere, so if anyone has the maths down better than I, please correct me.) hey, since you're good at maths and I am terrible, (and ccp don't care about including stats) could you please tell me how much damage my viziam is doing based on: prof 5, 2 complex damage mods? thanks! TOO MUCH!!!! This is a bold signature
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 311	Posted - 2014.12.20 15:49:00 - [26] - Quote I see some different fittings working atm: Cal / Gal Shotgun Scouts Min Assault + CR Amarr Assault + ScR Heavies of different coleur, mainly Amarr + Gal though everything else seems not happening so much The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 648	Posted - 2014.12.20 15:57:00 - [27] - Quote Hansei Kaizen wrote: I see some different fittings working atm: Cal / Gal Shotgun Scouts Min Assault + CR Amarr Assault + ScR Heavies of different coleur, mainly Amarr + Gal though everything else seems not happening so much Gal assaults with modded ARR are a thing too but they're not OP as much. What's really wrecking everything now is Min assaults with ARs... and ScRubs obv. Brick tanking your shotgun scout is more viable than going eWAR from what I see. Amarr sents are still getting spammed like crazy in most maps. Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 224	Posted - 2014.12.20 16:12:00 - [28] - Quote its funny how before, anti-armor weapons were "too effective against shields" and now anti-shield weapons are "too effective against armor." just saying... i guess it just goes to show if you appease one crowd, you'll upset the other... Gallente-Fu Grand Master Gallente Federation Patriot
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1337	Posted - 2014.12.20 16:13:00 - [29] - Quote John Psi wrote: pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. Shield tankers must use speed and distance. ScR has one of the longest ranges in the game. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
OliX PRZESMIEWCA Academy Inferno E-R-A 239	Posted - 2014.12.20 16:36:00 - [30] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: John Psi wrote: pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. Shield tankers must use speed and distance. ScR has one of the longest ranges in the game. Still shorter than RR. Shield guys as an Amarr Scr user prof.5 I will give U a small tip: Listen to Cavani. He's an excellent cal user and always got problem with him. Most people stand still while shooting which U don't really want to do against SCR.

Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 649	Posted - 2014.12.20 16:53:00 - [31] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: John Psi wrote: pagl1u M wrote: When the shield tankers with an Anti-armor rifle meets the armor tanker with an Anti-shield rifle, the shield tankers is a dead man. I'm not going to prove it mathematically. I'm not going to explain why this happens, I don't know it. It's just something I always see on the battlefield. Shield tankers must use speed and distance. ScR has one of the longest ranges in the game. Range fights between ARR and ScR are balanced, both require gun game to win. Troubles againts a ScR come in mid-close range, where you don't have much ease to win other than throwing nades and switching very fast from cover to cover. Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3541	Posted - 2014.12.20 17:06:00 - [32] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Hansei Kaizen wrote: I see some different fittings working atm: Cal / Gal Shotgun Scouts Min Assault + CR Amarr Assault + ScR Heavies of different coleur, mainly Amarr + Gal though everything else seems not happening so much Gal assaults with damage modded ARR are a thing too altho they're not OP as much. What's really wrecking everything now is Min assaults with ARs... and ScRubs obv. Brick tanking your shotgun scout is more viable than going eWAR from what I see. Amarr sents are still getting spammed like crazy in most maps. EDIT: Balanced Shield / Armor values on a Caldari assault plus a damage mod on RR/ARR is OP too. So true at least I can say I've been doing that since prior to the AR buff. I have no clue what they thought when they buffed the burst in the manner they did, it functions the same as a burst CR with more rounds than a min ass w/ a CR nullifying the need to use the suits bonus. It has a much more attractive profile the sights and range are similar, the only down sides I see are really just the extra fitting and CR is better against 1200+ armor sentinels. Regular AR is still kind of meh only pull it out against scouts and shield tanked Cal assaults. Fatal Absolution Director
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 649	Posted - 2014.12.20 17:13:00 - [33] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So true at least I can say I've been doing that since prior to the AR buff. I have no clue what they thought when they buffed the burst in the manner they did, it functions the same as a burst CR with more rounds than a min ass w/ a CR nullifying the need to use the suits bonus. It has a much more attractive profile the sights and range are similar, the only down sides I see are really just the extra fitting and CR is better against 1200+ armor sentinels. Regular AR is still kind of meh only pull it out against scouts and shield tanked Cal assaults. I am confident the Burst AR is getting a clip size nerf because it totally nullifies the point of ScR and Breach AR's clip size nerf (I.E. reducing their damage per clip), along with what you said above. Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 445	Posted - 2014.12.20 17:20:00 - [34] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Psi wrote: Shield tankers must use speed and distance. And cover, to quickly regenerate shield and get back into the action. And let your target close the distance & gank you while your recharging. Have you considered a career in costumed aggression?
pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1161	Posted - 2014.12.20 18:02:00 - [35] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Every time the shield guy exposes himself and the armor guy attacks (draining your shields) you must also attack him to do some damage (that damage may be smaller but you need to be very accurate, imagine where the enemy is while your behind cover, ''predictive wall hacking'' I call it, you predict where enemy is and fire after exposing yourself, some people do this well) Then you rinse and repeat that shield regen process. Slowly killing him if he has less armor regen If he has a tac AR or SCR, you must wait until another ally attacks him head on, then you attack him together, his SCR may not have enough shots to kill you both. (if your both assault suits with high shields and you don't stay still so you and the ally dodge 30% of all shots) Or you must flank him or get behind him, your faster speed is meant to help you get to cover fast enough that he wont notice you until its too late. Then you must be very accurate to you have a 200 hp or 400 hp damage advantage. You should try to flank and attack from cover. Ok I ll rewrite my sentence: When 2 shield tankers with 2 Anti armor weapons meet a armor tankers with Anti shield weapons 1 of the two is a dead man. The second one can hope that the armor tankers finish his clip, otherwise he is a dead man too. "Balance" One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!


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