DUST Search - Shield Strafe Penalties

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Doshneil Antaro wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Cavani1EE7 wrote:

Petra 222 SoM wrote:

So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great.

But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well?

Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault.
This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents.

High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken?

FYI
You can't put kin cats in a pure shield tanked Caldari assault due to their lolPG unless you sacrifice significative stuff.

CalScouts are an easy kill unless they are brick tanked and you are using an anti-armor weapon.

If the issue is MinAssault's scout-like strafe speed just call for a nerf on it.

Kincats don't enhance strafe speed. they enhance sprinting ONLY. You can't sprint and strafe at the same time.

Your entire argument is invalid.

I agree with the basis of your statement about kincats, but you can still bob and weave while sprinting to the same effect of breaking hit detection. The caveat is that you cannot sprint and strafe as well as shoot.

No, hit detection is entirely dependent upon side to side movement. the only forward/back is circle strafing because it's the most convenient way to do it with a DS3/DS4. It's the rapid direction changes from side to side without acceleration/deceleration that break detection. KinCats cannot be used to enhance the side to side motion, that's hard-locked at 90% of base movement speed.

Kincats ONLY enhance forward-moving sprint speeds.

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Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 21	Posted - 2014.12.18 19:52:00 - [1] - Quote So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken?
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3959	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:06:00 - [2] - Quote Seriously? If you add penalties then double their hp otherwise quit the QQ You can stack more hp with DMG mods then you can shields without DMG mods. Armor can can be repped and use triage. But yes let's nerf the only thing useful about shields. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 628	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:09:00 - [3] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Seriously? If you add penalties then double their hp otherwise quit the QQ You can stack more hp with DMG mods then you can shields without DMG mods. Armor can can be repped and use triage. But yes let's nerf the only thing useful about shields. inb4anarmortankerexaggeratesaboutshieldsregen
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 21	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:11:00 - [4] - Quote Heimdallr69 , hmm you seem to be having a rough day. sorry about that. Why don't you inform me why i am wrong instead of attacking. i dont claim to be expert on the subject. Just giving feedback in the feedback thread. Cavani, is regen the problem? i don't have much regen on my MIn assault.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3960	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:15:00 - [5] - Quote Petra 222 SoM wrote: Heimdallr69 , hmm you seem to be having a rough day. sorry about that. Why don't you inform me why i am wrong instead of attacking. i dont claim to be expert on the subject. Just giving feedback in the feedback thread. I have all assaults proto and I use them all. This is how I base my facts. And I did tell you why you're wrong. I'm sick of all the QQ about shields it only has 1 good use and armor tankers want it nerfed. What I want is balance and if I see something that will ruin balance I will call it out. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 733	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:20:00 - [6] - Quote Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? I agree there should be a balancing draw-back related to shields. However it should not be a speed based penalty. It should be based on either ewar signature or (if possible) an increase in model size for hit detection purposes.
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 22	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:21:00 - [7] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Petra 222 SoM wrote: Heimdallr69 , hmm you seem to be having a rough day. sorry about that. Why don't you inform me why i am wrong instead of attacking. i dont claim to be expert on the subject. Just giving feedback in the feedback thread. I have all assaults proto and I use them all. This is how I base my facts. And I did tell you why you're wrong. I'm sick of all the QQ about shields it only has 1 good use and armor tankers want it nerfed. What I want is balance and if I see something that will ruin balance I will call it out. I can appreciate that. You clearly have more experience than I do. I am not demanding any changes. With my limited experience i perceived a problem. I then was able to replicate the perceived problem with Min assault. I am fully aware that my opinion could be off base, and that is why i put up a thread to hear opinions like yours... thanks for the response.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 629	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:22:00 - [8] - Quote Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? FYI You can't put kin cats in a pure shield tanked Caldari assault due to their lolPG unless you sacrifice significative stuff. CalScouts are an easy kill unless they are brick tanked and you are using an anti-armor weapon. If the issue is MinAssault's scout-like strafe speed just call for a nerf on it.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 629	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:28:00 - [9] - Quote For people calling for a penalty as a "compensation" to shield extenders for this nerf to the already underused armor plates, then extenders are better getting a HP buff (66 > 75) - along with a PG reduction because reasons - and we may have a deal.
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 23	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:33:00 - [10] - Quote haha Cavani are you a business man? im always down to make a deal lol. I don't care what gets nerfed/buffed as long as it is to the betterment of the game.

Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 338	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:56:00 - [11] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Seriously? If you add penalties then double their hp otherwise quit the QQ You can stack more hp with DMG mods then you can shields without DMG mods. Armor can can be repped and use triage. But yes let's nerf the only thing useful about shields. You completely missed the point. This has nothing to do with shields or armor modules specifically. High strafe speeds under latency cause hit detection to fail. Petra is pointing out that the current fix only helps remedy the situation for players that are fitting armor plates. Whether armor or shields get nerfed buffed or left alone doesn't matter in the LEAST with this. If hit detection itself doesn't work properly, it's pretty important and needs to be addressed.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2690	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:59:00 - [12] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: High strafe speeds under latency cause hit detection to fail. Petra is pointing out that the current fix only helps remedy the situation for players that are fitting armor plates. Whether armor or shields get nerfed buffed or left alone doesn't matter in the LEAST with this. If hit detection itself doesn't work properly, it's pretty important and needs to be addressed. Truth, as I see it.
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 25	Posted - 2014.12.22 18:42:00 - [13] - Quote appreciate the info. This is obviously an issue that needs to be addressed. I hear these similar complaints much too often over comms.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 315	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:22:00 - [14] - Quote There is nothing wrong with shields and making them useless like they did plates should not be considered.. The issue is that speed can be abused easier on shield suits, but is not the fault of the players that choose to use them, but rather CCP's for not simply reducing all speeds to the point were hit detection is tolerable. Sage /thread
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5925	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:27:00 - [15] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? FYI You can't put kin cats in a pure shield tanked Caldari assault due to their lolPG unless you sacrifice significative stuff. CalScouts are an easy kill unless they are brick tanked and you are using an anti-armor weapon. If the issue is MinAssault's scout-like strafe speed just call for a nerf on it. Kincats don't enhance strafe speed. they enhance sprinting ONLY. You can't sprint and strafe at the same time. Your entire argument is invalid. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 25	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:29:00 - [16] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: There is nothing wrong with shields and making them useless like they did plates should not be considered.. The issue is that speed can be abused easier on shield suits, but is not the fault of the players that choose to use them, but rather CCP's for not simply reducing all speeds to the point were hit detection is tolerable. If this were the case, It would seem that armor suits could actually abuse speed more because they have more slots to stack kincats with similar amounts of hp. also, you think armor plates are useless now?
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 315	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:30:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? FYI You can't put kin cats in a pure shield tanked Caldari assault due to their lolPG unless you sacrifice significative stuff. CalScouts are an easy kill unless they are brick tanked and you are using an anti-armor weapon. If the issue is MinAssault's scout-like strafe speed just call for a nerf on it. Kincats don't enhance strafe speed. they enhance sprinting ONLY. You can't sprint and strafe at the same time. Your entire argument is invalid. I agree with the basis of your statement about kincats, but you can still bob and weave while sprinting to the same effect of breaking hit detection. The caveat is that you cannot sprint and strafe as well as shoot. Sage /thread
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5925	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:33:00 - [18] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? FYI You can't put kin cats in a pure shield tanked Caldari assault due to their lolPG unless you sacrifice significative stuff. CalScouts are an easy kill unless they are brick tanked and you are using an anti-armor weapon. If the issue is MinAssault's scout-like strafe speed just call for a nerf on it. Kincats don't enhance strafe speed. they enhance sprinting ONLY. You can't sprint and strafe at the same time. Your entire argument is invalid. I agree with the basis of your statement about kincats, but you can still bob and weave while sprinting to the same effect of breaking hit detection. The caveat is that you cannot sprint and strafe as well as shoot. No, hit detection is entirely dependent upon side to side movement. the only forward/back is circle strafing because it's the most convenient way to do it with a DS3/DS4. It's the rapid direction changes from side to side without acceleration/deceleration that break detection. KinCats cannot be used to enhance the side to side motion, that's hard-locked at 90% of base movement speed. Kincats ONLY enhance forward-moving sprint speeds. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 315	Posted - 2014.12.22 19:37:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Doshneil Antaro wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? FYI You can't put kin cats in a pure shield tanked Caldari assault due to their lolPG unless you sacrifice significative stuff. CalScouts are an easy kill unless they are brick tanked and you are using an anti-armor weapon. If the issue is MinAssault's scout-like strafe speed just call for a nerf on it. Kincats don't enhance strafe speed. they enhance sprinting ONLY. You can't sprint and strafe at the same time. Your entire argument is invalid. I agree with the basis of your statement about kincats, but you can still bob and weave while sprinting to the same effect of breaking hit detection. The caveat is that you cannot sprint and strafe as well as shoot. No, hit detection is entirely dependent upon side to side movement. the only forward/back is circle strafing because it's the most convenient way to do it with a DS3/DS4. It's the rapid direction changes from side to side without acceleration/deceleration that break detection. KinCats cannot be used to enhance the side to side motion, that's hard-locked at 90% of base movement speed. Kincats ONLY enhance forward-moving sprint speeds. I once again agree, but we all know that speed breaks hit detection and has already been confirmed by CCP, and has been a known issue for a long time. Sage /thread
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1385	Posted - 2014.12.22 21:02:00 - [20] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: What I want is balance and if I see something that will ruin balance I will call it out. Is balance a big concern to Nyain San these days?

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5926	Posted - 2014.12.22 21:03:00 - [21] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: What I want is balance and if I see something that will ruin balance I will call it out. Is balance a big concern to Nyain San these days? only when it lets them stomp more easily. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law 668	Posted - 2014.12.22 21:04:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cavani1EE7 wrote: Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? FYI You can't put kin cats in a pure shield tanked Caldari assault due to their lolPG unless you sacrifice significative stuff. CalScouts are an easy kill unless they are brick tanked and you are using an anti-armor weapon. If the issue is MinAssault's scout-like strafe speed just call for a nerf on it. Kincats don't enhance strafe speed. they enhance sprinting ONLY. You can't sprint and strafe at the same time. Erm, where did I say that? 10100111001 Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
Bojo The Mighty Condor Squad 5344	Posted - 2014.12.22 23:08:00 - [23] - Quote I sensed a lot of bullshit when I read the thread title I was wrong; it's a bunch of horseshit Look: Shields should never limit mobility in any sense, end of story Bojo For CPM
Jacques Cayton II Kaalmayoti Warzone Control 1279	Posted - 2014.12.22 23:21:00 - [24] - Quote Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? Just stop your the reason shields will be nerfed again We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 26	Posted - 2014.12.22 23:23:00 - [25] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I sensed a lot of bullshit when I read the thread title I was wrong; it's a bunch of horseshit Look: Shields should never limit mobility in any sense, end of story Look: its hard to take you seriously when you don't even present info, just your naked opinion which we already have plenty of. This is a feedback and discussion thread, care to join?
Jacques Cayton II Kaalmayoti Warzone Control 1279	Posted - 2014.12.22 23:24:00 - [26] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? I agree there should be a balancing draw-back related to shields. However it should not be a speed based penalty. It should be based on either ewar signature or (if possible) an increase in model size for hit detection purposes. Thwn if you add plates make the suit bigger. Since i mean you are adding plates We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 26	Posted - 2014.12.22 23:28:00 - [27] - Quote Why do these conversations have to turn into an elementary shield vs armor thread. That isn't even the issue at hand. How about we try some critical thinking for a change.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2315	Posted - 2014.12.22 23:43:00 - [28] - Quote Shield penalty should be to profile. There should also be a "ferroscale" extender with less HP but no profile penalty. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
We are 138 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 587	Posted - 2014.12.23 00:26:00 - [29] - Quote Petra 222 SoM wrote: So strafe penalties to armor plates have been added, great. But are the problems with strafing and shields going to be addressed as well? Currently I can mimic the hit detection issues that plagues the Cal Scout with my MIn Assault. This is great for me but noticeably unfair for my opponents. High speed plus shields seems to be an issue. Am I mistaken? Are you stupid? Learn to aim scrub. Or let's just take out sheilds altogether and every one can run armor then every one can have the exact same loadout with no diversity and we can JUST ******* CALL IT COD514! really though you have no idea how this works at all do you? Hello? any one there?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1385	Posted - 2014.12.23 02:28:00 - [30] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Shield penalty should be to profile. There should also be a "ferroscale" extender with less HP but no profile penalty. Dear Rattati, I understand that you may be considering adding drawbacks to shields. Please pick a drawback which does not in any way affect me and my L337 Slayer dual-tanked loadouts. Long live King HP.

Bojo The Mighty Condor Squad 5348	Posted - 2014.12.23 03:28:00 - [31] - Quote Petra 222 SoM wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I sensed a lot of bullshit when I read the thread title I was wrong; it's a bunch of horseshit Look: Shields should never limit mobility in any sense, end of story Look: its hard to take you seriously when you don't even present info, just your naked opinion which we already have plenty of. This is a feedback and discussion thread, care to join? It's hard to take the idea seriously. You propose to eliminate an essential characteristic of shields, basically one of the two pros it has, for the sake of fixing an observation you made that is inconsistent with my end of things, my end being the armor tanker who is killing all yall shield tankers, and lastly if it is a consistent problem as you are inferring, then why not slow everything down so that shields remain as is and hit detection remains fixed, why not come up with alternatives. Because a shield strafe penalty defeats the purpose of shields: a mobile, light, self healing line of defense. Bojo For CPM
Petra 222 SoM Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 26	Posted - 2014.12.23 18:12:00 - [32] - Quote [/quote] It's hard to take the idea seriously. You propose to eliminate an essential characteristic of shields, basically one of the two pros it has, for the sake of fixing an observation you made that is inconsistent with my end of things, my end being the armor tanker who is killing all yall shield tankers, and lastly if it is a consistent problem as you are inferring, then why not slow everything down so that shields remain as is and hit detection remains fixed, why not come up with alternatives. Because a shield strafe penalty defeats the purpose of shields: a mobile, light, self healing line of defense. [/quote] The only thing I proposed was a an observation and a question, creating a topic for discussion. I am looking for information and opinions. Believe it or not i am not alone in these observations and until CCP comes out informing us otherwise there will be debate. Did you read the thread at all? You could have used this thread to do exactly what you are pointing your finger at me for but you didn't. and sorry to use you as an example (you do seem sincerely passionate) but it's really funny to see some of your reactions.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 4026	Posted - 2014.12.23 19:26:00 - [33] - Quote This thread is about shields not your QQ about my corp. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro


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