DUST Search - When CCP chose the engine for DUST

deezy dabest wrote:

Daddrobit wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

Jathniel wrote:

Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine.

Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine.

Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it.

UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion.

CCP Android wrote:

We are running on a heavily modified UE3 engine. Heavily modified means that we have taken almost all parts of it and extended or changed them. Take our lighting for example, we have completely moved to fully dynamic lighting that supports bounce lighting. Take a look at a presentation one of our programmers did a few years ago on our lighting. The presentation is a little old, but the key concepts are still the same.

http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2012/CCP/Malan-Dust_514_GI_reflections(Siggraph2012).pptx

This technology has been in active development since then and is getting very advanced (IGÇÖll see if I can get CCP Photon to do a devblog on the current state of it and where we intend to take since it)

We are also using a few very impressive middleware technologies. That means that we get code from companies that are experts in a certain technology and integrate it into our game. The NVIDIA PhysX middleware is a good example. It contains things like advanced particles, advanced physics and GÇª yes destruction. So the reason we are not doing destruction right now is not that our engine does not support it, but rather its not our focus right now.

What engine is chosen at the beginning of development should be thought of more as a starting point for a game rather than a box that the game is developed in.

Quoted from here

They also tweeted the same thing but twitter search sucks.

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Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13887	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:09:00 - [1] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/Zxbi4lT.gif Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13887	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:16:00 - [2] - Quote Playstation best girl confirmed. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1054	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:19:00 - [3] - Quote well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 Should Legion be on the ps4?
Immortal John Ripper 26632	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:19:00 - [4] - Quote Creepy Creepy People Alt of Jadek. Anyone with less likes than me is not a forum warrior. Anyone with more likes than me is a forum warrior
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13888	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:22:00 - [5] - Quote da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 Oh god if they stuck with that engine... 5 months after release "Hey guys! We're happy to announce that after much optimization we increased the average frame rate from 4 to 5! Please tell us what you think and keep that feedback rolling!". Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1054	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:39:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 Oh god if they stuck with that engine... 5 months after release "Hey guys! We're happy to announce that after much optimization we increased the average frame rate from 4 to 5! Please tell us what you think and keep that feedback rolling!". well I believe someone said that it was running on the ps3 that day so ya it wasn't the software that was the problem it was the hardware. It should've been on the pc from the start and CCP wouldn't have been held behind on dust 514's development for so many years. Should Legion be on the ps4?
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 9018	Posted - 2014.12.15 22:43:00 - [7] - Quote da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 The carbon engine melted PS3 If they could get it to work on PS4, I would... I'm not sure what I'd do. Born Deteis Caldari. Rejected by my Kinsman. Found a new family in the Vherokior Tribe. Nobody messes with my family
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13895	Posted - 2014.12.15 22:44:00 - [8] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 The carbon engine melted PS3 If they could get it to work on PS4, I would... I'm not sure what I'd do. It probably could. The PS4 is probably stronger than any PC from 2009. Though they would need to optimize it for 8 weak cores instead of 2-4 powerful cores. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3479	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:48:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 The carbon engine melted PS3 If they could get it to work on PS4, I would... I'm not sure what I'd do. It probably could. The PS4 is probably stronger than any PC from 2009. Though they would need to optimize it for 8 weak cores instead of 2-4 powerful cores. I'll show you a powerful core! supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2659	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:02:00 - [10] - Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games There's plenty of great games on UE3 for PS3 that ran completely fine. The engine isn't what limits DUST, it's the innate technical limitations of the PS3 combined with the immense complexity of the game that CCP tried to design. Think about it, when you play a game like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Halo, etc., there's very little the game is having to calculate in terms of player health, damage, basic things like that because those games have, for the most part, a set player health with set damage for each weapon. Then you think about DUST 514 and how literally every individual has completely different health variations of shield/armor, different damage types that also have to consider proficiency skills and dropsuit modules. Literally every person on the battlefield has different stats, and that computation is very taxing compared to simply everyone having 100 HP or whatever and each gun always having X amount of damage. Follow me on Twitch.tv!

Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1251	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:18:00 - [11] - Quote Well, It's really not the Engines fault per se, but the scope of the game and the platform it has to perform it on in conjunction with the relative inexperience of the Shanghai team with the engine and platform. I mean you can just look a the track record of the Engine and see it's not a wimp. Best Product or Service NCTA - 2012 GÇô 2012 Best Tools Provider 2012 Develop Industry Excellence Awards GÇô 2012 Best Taste of Next-Gen GamesRadar, E3 2012 Important Stuff Awards GÇô 2012 Coolest Tech IGN, Best of E3 2012 Awards GÇô 2012 Best Tech Game Informer, Best of E3 2012 Awards GÇô 2012 Best Game Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2011 Top Industry Driven Tech of the Year NCTA GÇô 2011 Best Game Engine Develop GÇô 2011 Best Game Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2010 Best Game Engine Develop GÇô 2010 Best Game Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2009 Best Game Engine Develop GÇô 2009 Best Tools Provider Develop GÇô 2008 Top Industry Driven Technology of the Year NCTA GÇô 2008 Hall of Fame Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2008 Best Game Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2007' Best Technology Game Developer Choice Awards GÇô 2007 Outstanding Achievement in Online Game Play AIAS Interactive Achievement Awards GÇô 2007 Outstanding Achievement in Visual Engineering AIAS Interactive Achievement Awards GÇô 2007 Best Game Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2006 Best Graphics (Technical) GameSpot GÇô 2006 Best Graphics:Reader's Choice (Technical) GameSpot GÇô 2006 Best Graphics Spike TV Video Game Awards GÇô 2006 Best Graphics TeamXbox GÇô 2006 Best Game Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2005 Best Graphics Technology (Xbox 360), Technological Excellence IGN GÇô 2005 Best Game Engine Game Developer Magazine Front Line Awards GÇô 2004 Ya see, there are some beautiful award winning games on the PS3 system, and there are many that use the UE3. However, an overwhelming majority of those games are campaign games only. And for those that do have multiplayer capabilities, they are generally no where near as expansive as this game. When the system tries to run a game like say COD, it has to take into consideration a few things and open up "packs" that contain these things so they can be used in the game. These include the different weapons, different attachments, kill streaks, and a couple perks that might affect your characters physical performance. Now think in terms of Dust's pack size. It has to load in packs that contain over 100 different weapons, vehicles each with dozens of weapons and dozens modules that affect their performance and survivability, each one fitted uniquely, dropsuits that have over 100 different modules that affect your performance and survivability, again each one fitted uniquely, and 100's of skills, each different for each player, several of which have to be used in conjunction with the skills of the other players and calculated accordingly on the fly. Dust has so much it has to process at any given time that quite frankly, it's incredible they've gotten this far on the limitations the PS3 infringes, (256 MB RAM? You can buy the Raspberry Pi computer for 35$ and it has double that, or upgrade my desktop to 8 gigs for $40.) O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2712	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:36:00 - [12] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Snip... Unreal 3 engine is a good engine at certain things. This is known industry wide. Is it a good MMO FPS shooter Engine?... Everyone in the industry would of screamed in unison "NO" It has inherent problems with the engine that make it terrible at that function. Does the UE3 build good modern games? Of course... Even the new game "Thief" was just built on the UE3. Single player games or low player count multiplayer modes it can handle well. But between Frame rate problems with the engine that are known industry wide.. Texture pop in problems.. Rendering issues.. You can spend 20 mins on google searching developers opinions on the UE3 who have built games with it. It is just not built to build games like DUST on it... Why did CCP Use the UE3 engine? It was cheap as hell. 100 dollars for a developers license, then royalties after launch.. At this time CCP was having on going issues for over a year at CCP Atlanta.. EVE Valkyrie was becoming a thing and CCP Newcastle was in the works... And DUST and CCP Shanghai was underway... With a few hiccups. CCP was capped out of cash... They can't afford to buy rights to another engine or go through the learning curve of using another one at this point. Are there 5-10 other engines that could run DUST or legion better? YES. Would it speed up development for Legion? Nope. DUST took a 3 million dollar game concept... And built it on a $10,000 dollar foundation. Literally.
Jathniel G I A N T 1323	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:48:00 - [13] - Quote Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 594	Posted - 2014.12.16 01:10:00 - [14] - Quote >sh*t tier grill as ps3 >CCP fapping hand >Could you stop trolling plz. #geomodenginebestengine GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1054	Posted - 2014.12.16 01:24:00 - [15] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 The carbon engine melted PS3 If they could get it to work on PS4, I would... I'm not sure what I'd do. It probably could. The PS4 is probably stronger than any PC from 2009. Though they would need to optimize it for 8 weak cores instead of 2-4 powerful cores. I'll show you a powerful core! Sir plz put it away!! Should Legion be on the ps4?
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1346	Posted - 2014.12.16 03:01:00 - [16] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1252	Posted - 2014.12.16 03:39:00 - [17] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it. UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5088	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:36:00 - [18] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 The carbon engine melted PS3 If they could get it to work on PS4, I would... I'm not sure what I'd do. It probably could. The PS4 is probably stronger than any PC from 2009. Though they would need to optimize it for 8 weak cores instead of 2-4 powerful cores. I'll show you a powerful core! A Variable Wing Core? Get out. You're not Ikaros.
KILL3R H3LLH0UND Nox Lupos 78	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:38:00 - [19] - Quote da GAND wrote: well the engine that they had working during that 2009 presentation wasnt gonna do well on the ps3 I'm okay with my PS3 melting 10x over for DUST Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my CalAss BPO collector.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13926	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:41:00 - [20] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it. UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion. Nope, they're sticking with their heavily modified UE3. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++

KILL3R H3LLH0UND Nox Lupos 81	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:49:00 - [21] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Daddrobit wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it. UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion. Nope, they're sticking with their heavily modified UE3. They have to be idiots. RUN THE CARBON ENGINE :D Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my CalAss BPO collector.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13927	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:57:00 - [22] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Daddrobit wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it. UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion. Nope, they're sticking with their heavily modified UE3. They have to be idiots. RUN THE CARBON ENGINE :D When they switched from CARBON to UE3, they had to throw all of their assets away because they weren't compatible. I imagine doing that in reverse would have the same effect. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1058	Posted - 2014.12.16 04:59:00 - [23] - Quote KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Daddrobit wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it. UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion. Nope, they're sticking with their heavily modified UE3. They have to be idiots. RUN THE CARBON ENGINE :D Seems to me that they've done too much work with the ue3 to stop now lol, the might just be too use to this engine by now and wouldn't want to have to teach those that haven't worked with the carbon engine. Should Legion be on the ps4?
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1348	Posted - 2014.12.16 06:02:00 - [24] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it. UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion. CCP Android wrote: We are running on a heavily modified UE3 engine. Heavily modified means that we have taken almost all parts of it and extended or changed them. Take our lighting for example, we have completely moved to fully dynamic lighting that supports bounce lighting. Take a look at a presentation one of our programmers did a few years ago on our lighting. The presentation is a little old, but the key concepts are still the same. http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2012/CCP/Malan-Dust_514_GI_reflections(Siggraph2012).pptx This technology has been in active development since then and is getting very advanced (IGÇÖll see if I can get CCP Photon to do a devblog on the current state of it and where we intend to take since it) We are also using a few very impressive middleware technologies. That means that we get code from companies that are experts in a certain technology and integrate it into our game. The NVIDIA PhysX middleware is a good example. It contains things like advanced particles, advanced physics and GÇª yes destruction. So the reason we are not doing destruction right now is not that our engine does not support it, but rather its not our focus right now. What engine is chosen at the beginning of development should be thought of more as a starting point for a game rather than a box that the game is developed in. Quoted from here They also tweeted the same thing but twitter search sucks.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1254	Posted - 2014.12.16 07:32:00 - [25] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Daddrobit wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Jathniel wrote: Should have known something was wrong, the moment you had to drop your intended engine. Hopefully, Legion will work with the Carbon engine, and run just fine. Legion is also being built on UE3, or atleast it was the last time they spoke of it. UE4 I believe. I'm excited to see what can be done with the engine. And I mean that in general, not just solely for Legion. CCP Android wrote: We are running on a heavily modified UE3 engine. Heavily modified means that we have taken almost all parts of it and extended or changed them. Take our lighting for example, we have completely moved to fully dynamic lighting that supports bounce lighting. Take a look at a presentation one of our programmers did a few years ago on our lighting. The presentation is a little old, but the key concepts are still the same. http://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2012/CCP/Malan-Dust_514_GI_reflections(Siggraph2012).pptx This technology has been in active development since then and is getting very advanced (IGÇÖll see if I can get CCP Photon to do a devblog on the current state of it and where we intend to take since it) We are also using a few very impressive middleware technologies. That means that we get code from companies that are experts in a certain technology and integrate it into our game. The NVIDIA PhysX middleware is a good example. It contains things like advanced particles, advanced physics and GÇª yes destruction. So the reason we are not doing destruction right now is not that our engine does not support it, but rather its not our focus right now. What engine is chosen at the beginning of development should be thought of more as a starting point for a game rather than a box that the game is developed in. Quoted from here They also tweeted the same thing but twitter search sucks. Oh, dumb move tbqh. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1349	Posted - 2014.12.16 07:46:00 - [26] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Oh, dumb move tbqh. I have reserved judgement on that. This allows for a certain amount of charing between Legion and Dust which is a good thing. Also, which would work better a generic newer platform of an older platform which is slightly more stable and has been modified to specifically fit your needs? Not to mention the things they have learned about UE3 in their time spent here on Dust.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3388	Posted - 2014.12.16 07:59:00 - [27] - Quote The reason UE3 was chosen is because it is legacy technology and is cheap. Also it was probably chosen in a period of panic, due to CCPs "real" engine not working out quite as anticipated in the PS3 during the alpha testing. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13933	Posted - 2014.12.16 12:07:00 - [28] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Oh, dumb move tbqh. Not really. A game engine can be modified so heavily it's unrecognizable. The Source Engine's base is the Quake 1 engine, and it still has a lot of legacy code in it from that era. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 940	Posted - 2014.12.16 12:26:00 - [29] - Quote Maybe using their heavily modified UE3 engine means they can upgrade to UE4 at some point in the future? Valkyrie switched to UE4 later in its development (not sure what engine it started on). The source engine is a good example of how much an engine can be changed and modified to suit a developer's needs for a game. The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 13933	Posted - 2014.12.16 12:46:00 - [30] - Quote sabre prime wrote: Maybe using their heavily modified UE3 engine means they can upgrade to UE4 at some point in the future? Valkyrie switched to UE4 later in its development (not sure what engine it started on). The source engine is a good example of how much an engine can be changed and modified to suit a developer's needs for a game. I remember them saying that switching from UE3 and UE4 would be quite difficult because of all of the modifications they did. They have probably decided it would be more efficient at this point to just keep modifying UE3 to suit their needs. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++



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