DUST Search - The ASCR Conundrum (I have no idea whats wrong with it)

John Demonsbane wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

I believe that a large part of the issue with amarr weapons is a lot of the 'headspace' focus on heat mechanics (66% of their weapons not counting variants have heat mechanics. In theory to compensate for extremely punishing heat mechanics the laser and scr have to be 'overpowered' in some regard.

Unfortunately the AScR lacks anything that makes it 'overpowered' enough in one area to compensate for being tied to heat mechanics. Also when you combine the fact that assault weapons are meant to be 'easy' to use you're left with two real options, buff the AScR and risk it being incredibly dominant over other weapons or separate it from potentially crippling heat mechanics opening up a niche for non amarr assaults that want to use a SCR variant.

This is very much a possibility for why the AScR is unused.
In fact, it might be the main reason.

You can get just about the same weapon, minus the worry of overheating, by just using an AR.

Its just much simpler to lay into a trigger on a weapon that let's you focus completely on aiming and tracking, than it is to to have to take concentration away from the task at hand in order to manage your heat gauge. I think that most players have decided in their minds that an extra 12 rounds in a magazine just isn't worth all that trouble.

I gotta agree with this. The LR and ScR are so OP it's ridiculous... if they didn't overheat.

The simple fact that the AScR is good but not great compared to other assault variants but nonetheless has the same punishing overheat mechanic is all the excuse the average player needs to stay the hell away from it.

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Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7441	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:13:00 - [1] - Quote Okay, so, started playing around with this after my Burst Rifle Conundrum thread thinking maybe I could math my way through to a solution while I was at work. Maaaaan, I dunno what's wrong with this thing. Mathematically, it's an astounding weapon. I seriously have no idea what's wrong with it or why it would be underperforming. After a few matches with it, I actually kind of like it - packs quite a bit of a punch and seems to perform as well or better than my Assault Rifle (heresy, I know). CCP Rattati said not to compare it with the Scrambler Rifle, and to only compare it against other Assault Variants. While I will mostly honor that in this thread, I do want to point out some obvious things when you compare the two. SCR (theoretical): 650 DPS 2,925 damage per magazine 14,625 damage per max ammo 6 second cooldown 2.5 second reload ASCR: 388.234 DPS 2,376 damage per magazine 11,880 damage per max ammo 9 second cooldown 2.5 second reload Okay, so obviously it's not just the charge-shot factor that makes the SCR outweigh the ASCR by miles. It's pure performance. If you have a good enough trigger finger you can spam that thing to high heaven and trust me when I say it's entirely possible. Admittedly, that video is a little old (Pre 1.8), but that fire rate is a little crazy powerful when look at that above DPS value and consider the ability to charge up. NOTE: That was with a Templar Sentinel. No heat bonuses there! Anyway, moving on to the important bits. When compared to other Assault variants, this thing is just... WOW. Just take a look at the numbers: ASCR: 388.234 DPS 2,376 damage per magazine 11,880 damage per max ammo 9 second cooldown 2.5 second reload 72 mag size AR: 412 DPS 1,854 damage per magazine 9,270 damage per max ammo 3 second reload 60 mag size ACR: 397 DPS 1,350 damage per magazine 8,099 damage per max ammo 2.6 second reload 68 mag size ARR: 296.4 DPS 1,719 damage per magazine 10,315 damage per max ammo 3.2 second reload 58 mag size So, right out of the gate it already has the fastest reload speed out of the bunch. It has the largest magazine size (though this is weighed by it's heat build up, even though that's not really a factor for Amarr Assaults), the highest damage per magazine, and the highest damage per maximum ammo count. The only thing it falls short on is DPS (bested by the AR and ACR) and Range (bested by the ARR, even though it's not listed). Funny thing is, this spreadsheet doesn't even take into account the ARR's charge-up time. Okay, so maybe it's the damage profile? That seems to be a common complaint. Except... Well, the results might surprise you. Here's how it stands up against a few 'in the wild' fits I either saw or just happen to use myself. Small Spreadsheet Stuff I would have gone further and compared it against some more fits but just from a quick glance I can already recognize a pattern forming. The fact that, even though it's got a hefty +20/-20 damage profile in favor of shields... It actually doesn't perform that badly on paper. In fact, the worst contender out of the group was the ARR which had trouble punching through targets it was actually designed to kill. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't have the most -amazing- performance, being second worst in two categories and second best in the last... But it certainly isn't that bad. The differences in TTK are marginal at best, with 0.54 seconds of TTK difference even in the worst play out of the three. Which, to put that into perspective, that's just 0.09 seconds longer than it takes to charge up a Rail Rifle. That's 0.06 seconds faster than it takes to cool down a vanilla Scrambler Rifle. That's about twice the time it takes you -blink your eyes-. So the damage profile isn't -terrible-. What about kick? Well, okay, so the kick might be a little worse for the wear... But not many people know that the weapon has -ZERO- muzzle climb. It'll bounce around a lot while you fire but it will never leave it's firing position, where-as all the other rifles will slowly stagger upward the longer you fire it. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself! Jump into a domination match and stand next to a supply depot. Find something to aim at and fire away with a few different weapons. That being said... Based purely on paper and what little experience I decided to throw into it... I have no idea what's wrong with this weapon or why it is underperforming other than the myth that it is terrible. Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 123	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:17:00 - [2] - Quote I always thought it wasn't to bad, but that was 1.7 and there has been major changes. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14437	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:23:00 - [3] - Quote Well one issue, is that IIRC the Carthum ASCR does the exact same damage as the CRD-9. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7441	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:29:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: Well one issue, is that IIRC the Carthum ASCR does the exact same damage as the CRD-9. Hah! Wow, yeah, that'd be a glaring reason wouldn't it? CRD-9 34.10 damage Carthum 34.10 damage Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Spankdamonke ScReWeD uP InC 51	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:41:00 - [5] - Quote Personally, I would like to see the following changes 1) A ROF increase to 735rpm. This would effectively give it the same 4% damage buff the ACR received a while back. 2) A 4-5m optimal increase. As it stands, it only has a 5m advantage over the ACR, but 17m less than the vanilla Scrambler. 3) The same 6 second cooldown of the regular Scrambler. As it stands, if you find yourself facing multiple opponents (and with the extra shots needed to defeat the penalty against armor) you will almost always find yourself in an overheat situation. Those 3 seconds are a lifetime in a heated fight. ....These changes would warrant a decrease to the clip size, perhaps dropping mag size to 65? Of course, with the incoming HP changes to armor plates, it may prove more battle capable than now.
Spankdamonke ScReWeD uP InC 51	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:47:00 - [6] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Atiim wrote: Well one issue, is that IIRC the Carthum ASCR does the exact same damage as the CRD-9. Hah! Wow, yeah, that'd be a glaring reason wouldn't it? CRD-9 34.10 damage Carthum 34.10 damage I've been trying to get a Dev's attention on this in the Tech Support/Bug section for a while now. I suppose I wasn't flashy enough https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=183166&find=unread
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2774	Posted - 2014.12.14 05:26:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Atiim wrote: Well one issue, is that IIRC the Carthum ASCR does the exact same damage as the CRD-9. Hah! Wow, yeah, that'd be a glaring reason wouldn't it? CRD-9 34.10 damage Carthum 34.10 damage I can't say that I am a big user of the assault scrambler but I kinda like it to be honest. I am pretty sure that this is a fairly recent bug as I am quite sure it has not always been the same DMG @ proto level as at ADV. level. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 888	Posted - 2014.12.14 05:30:00 - [8] - Quote Okay just throwing in some thoughts here, I have this weapon in all my general fits but don't exactly fair too well as my regular ScR. 1. Make damage profile of all Laser Weaponry to +15/-15 2. Improve the "zoom" of both ScR 3. Remove the wild visual spread while in ADS(I know it's just visual but this is unnecessary and brutal to handle for my eyes) 4. Decrease cooldown time to 6-7 No one does it better than PIE Lasers4life "Gravity released me. Don't ever hold me down."
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1350	Posted - 2014.12.14 06:05:00 - [9] - Quote If i had to guess... Its the overall handling of the thing, whether its cosmetic or not. It feels hard to handle, and has a jarring muzzle flash. Both of which makes it oddly difficult to track enemies. Slap a flash suppresor on it and make it stop vibrating so much. Fixed. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1107	Posted - 2014.12.14 07:47:00 - [10] - Quote I love my AScR, even more now I have a STD version! I honestly don't give a hoot about the +20/-20 profile, it still rips people up. And when paired with my Flaylock it's even more beastly Not really sure what I'd suggest as a change, perhaps an increase in heat build up (such that its higher damage per mag/ammo is mitigated) in accordance with an increase in either direct damage or ROF to align its DPS on the range/damage curve? Though looking at your numbers I think its actually already there. Maybe it performs badly because not enough people use it to give it solid enough data? Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

The Eristic Dust 90210 658	Posted - 2014.12.14 09:45:00 - [11] - Quote The muzzle flash is a big deal, as is the weird jitter it has. The flash practically blinds you when ADS, and the jitter makes it feel like you're moving off target when you really aren't., forcing you to unconsciously compensate and take yourself off target, meaning you're actually throwing shots away while your brain thinks you're keeping them on the enemy. Tone those down and it might fix it. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 597	Posted - 2014.12.14 10:01:00 - [12] - Quote I solved it here Basically, although its supposed to be a shield killer specialist, the ADV ASCR does only 4 more damage per second as the GEK 38, and only 2 better than the ADV Breach. The penalty difference vs armor is a whopping 78.6 damage less than the GEK and 83.9 damage less than the Breach. To summerize the ASCR is an average rifle at best in its shield killing role, and has the largest penalty not only vs armor, but of all the rifles in dust. I got a spreadsheet thrown together, will post it later. But yeah, the ASCR needs some help. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3380	Posted - 2014.12.14 10:37:00 - [13] - Quote Increase damage per shot, reduce range, rename to Breach Scrambler Rifle. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7455	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:27:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: I solved it here Basically, although its supposed to be a shield killer specialist, the ADV ASCR does only 4 more damage per second as the GEK 38, and only 2 better than the ADV Breach. The penalty difference vs armor is a whopping 78.6 damage less than the GEK and 83.9 damage less than the Breach. To summerize the ASCR is an average rifle at best in its shield killing role, and has the largest penalty not only vs armor, but of all the rifles in dust. I got a spreadsheet thrown together, will post it later. But yeah, the ASCR needs some help. Kinda skewed don't you think? Why not show results for shield damage comparisons between the ASCR and the AR while you're mentioning armor =P But as others commented in your thread, range is also a factor, as well as the fact that you never have to worry about upward muzzle climb. I'd imagine if people could see through the sepia tone filter on the screen when firing (referring to the muzzle flash) they'd be deadly accurate. Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7455	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:30:00 - [15] - Quote What about if we reduced the muzzle flash and jitter, but made the jitter gradually build up in ADS like muzzle climb with all the other rifles? That way there is incentive to firing in a controlled manner and take a moment to let the (negligible) heat cooldown for a second as you let the weapon stabilize itself? Also, fixing ADV and Proto damage values is a great place to start as well. I'm wary about changing the damage profile, personally, because then we're slighting the weapon's chosen target field by comparison of Explosives. But, yanno, I can understand a +15/-15 argument because then it'd just be the opposite of a Projectile weapon... Dunno, really. Could also look into reducing PG/CPU values for the ASCR specifically so that it's not just an automatic SCR with worse everything. Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1355	Posted - 2014.12.15 04:56:00 - [16] - Quote An unconventional fix that might work for the AScR: Heat=Damage Just like the laser. The higher your heat, the more damage per shot you do. Obviously this would have to only be in a small scale, perhaps 15% more damage at nearly maximum heat. But, I think this would add a nice rsk vs reward balance into the very mechanics of the AScR. You could risk overheating to get more damage, or you could play it safe and settle for a low damage. Please, make my Opus pretty...
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11698	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:03:00 - [17] - Quote Some thoughts about the aSCR: To actually fix it, I would suggest making it the most precise and accurate rifle assault variant (it is a laser weapon afterall). Tighten up ADS as well as hipfire dispersion, and tone down the jitter. I never understood how the muzzleflash hindered anyone, yet other users report it somehow effects them. I think it's a minor issue (if it's an issue at all), and reducing that won't fix anything. I remember doing tests with the aSCR, and while it had very negligible barrel climb, it was still present. The damage profile is fine, and I can't stand it when people suggest changing it. Other weapons with this damage profile have no issue (SCR, SCP, LR), and to have a variant have a different profile then it's base weapon kind of defeats the point of that weapon being a variant. Holy crap, the damage of the Carthum aSCR ! How did I not notice this problem before? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11698	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:11:00 - [18] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: An unconventional fix that might work for the AScR: Heat=Damage Just like the laser. The higher your heat, the more damage per shot you do. Obviously this would have to only be in a small scale, perhaps 15% more damage at nearly maximum heat. But, I think this would add a nice rsk vs reward balance into the very mechanics of the AScR. You could risk overheating to get more damage, or you could play it safe and settle for a low damage. Fun idea, I like it. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 599	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:45:00 - [19] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: I solved it here Basically, although its supposed to be a shield killer specialist, the ADV ASCR does only 4 more damage per second as the GEK 38, and only 2 better than the ADV Breach. The penalty difference vs armor is a whopping 78.6 damage less than the GEK and 83.9 damage less than the Breach. To summerize the ASCR is an average rifle at best in its shield killing role, and has the largest penalty not only vs armor, but of all the rifles in dust. I got a spreadsheet thrown together, will post it later. But yeah, the ASCR needs some help. Kinda skewed don't you think? Why not show results for shield damage comparisons between the ASCR and the AR while you're mentioning armor =P But as others commented in your thread, range is also a factor, as well as the fact that you never have to worry about upward muzzle climb. I'd imagine if people could see through the sepia tone filter on the screen when firing (referring to the muzzle flash) they'd be deadly accurate. That is the results vs shields. Its supposed to be a specialist with a massive penalty to to armor, yet does only 2 more dps than its direct enemy ACBR vs Armor, or 4 more vs its direct shield killing competitor the gek 38. The range is a myth. Range is only slightly better than combat rifles by 5 meters. You don't have the range to make upfor its drawbacks, your don't have any more accuracy than a BK42, and a comparativley low rate of fire, for its lack of punch. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1769	Posted - 2014.12.15 06:38:00 - [20] - Quote I believe that a large part of the issue with amarr weapons is a lot of the 'headspace' focus on heat mechanics (66% of their weapons not counting variants have heat mechanics. In theory to compensate for extremely punishing heat mechanics the laser and scr have to be 'overpowered' in some regard. Unfortunately the AScR lacks anything that makes it 'overpowered' enough in one area to compensate for being tied to heat mechanics. Also when you combine the fact that assault weapons are meant to be 'easy' to use you're left with two real options, buff the AScR and risk it being incredibly dominant over other weapons or separate it from potentially crippling heat mechanics opening up a niche for non amarr assaults that want to use a SCR variant. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1356	Posted - 2014.12.15 07:05:00 - [21] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I believe that a large part of the issue with amarr weapons is a lot of the 'headspace' focus on heat mechanics (66% of their weapons not counting variants have heat mechanics. In theory to compensate for extremely punishing heat mechanics the laser and scr have to be 'overpowered' in some regard. Unfortunately the AScR lacks anything that makes it 'overpowered' enough in one area to compensate for being tied to heat mechanics. Also when you combine the fact that assault weapons are meant to be 'easy' to use you're left with two real options, buff the AScR and risk it being incredibly dominant over other weapons or separate it from potentially crippling heat mechanics opening up a niche for non amarr assaults that want to use a SCR variant. This is very much a possibility for why the AScR is unused. In fact, it might be the main reason. You can get just about the same weapon, minus the worry of overheating, by just using an AR. Its just much simpler to lay into a trigger on a weapon that let's you focus completely on aiming and tracking, than it is to to have to take concentration away from the task at hand in order to manage your heat gauge. I think that most players have decided in their minds that an extra 12 rounds in a magazine just isn't worth all that trouble. Please, make my Opus pretty...
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 415	Posted - 2014.12.15 07:14:00 - [22] - Quote I've noticed that the Militia AScR does 3 damage per shot less and has a slower fire rate than the Standard-level AScR, making the Amarr frontline starter fit crap. My Paladin will hurt you. Very badly.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1357	Posted - 2014.12.15 07:21:00 - [23] - Quote TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: I've noticed that the Militia AScR does 3 damage per shot less and has a slower fire rate than the Standard-level AScR, making the Amarr frontline starter fit crap. This combined with the god awful 2/0 slot layout just ends up making the worst thing in the game for new players. I don't wish that hell upon my worst enemies. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2682	Posted - 2014.12.15 07:40:00 - [24] - Quote The heat is only a minor factor, I'd like to see heat management become more significant in exchange for buffing the longer-range fully auto ADS precision, and possibly a slight damage buff. So heat will require more management, but in exchange you'll get significantly less jitter/muzzle flash, a bit more range, possibly a bit more zoom on the ADS (like 5%), and a small damage buff, either directly or via a small RoF buff (the RoF option is probably better because you'll have to manage ammo a bit more). Best PvE idea ever!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11698	Posted - 2014.12.15 08:47:00 - [25] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I believe that a large part of the issue with amarr weapons is a lot of the 'headspace' focus on heat mechanics (66% of their weapons not counting variants have heat mechanics. In theory to compensate for extremely punishing heat mechanics the laser and scr have to be 'overpowered' in some regard. Unfortunately the AScR lacks anything that makes it 'overpowered' enough in one area to compensate for being tied to heat mechanics. Also when you combine the fact that assault weapons are meant to be 'easy' to use you're left with two real options, buff the AScR and risk it being incredibly dominant over other weapons or separate it from potentially crippling heat mechanics opening up a niche for non amarr assaults that want to use a SCR variant. This is very much a possibility for why the AScR is unused. In fact, it might be the main reason. You can get just about the same weapon, minus the worry of overheating, by just using an AR. Its just much simpler to lay into a trigger on a weapon that let's you focus completely on aiming and tracking, than it is to to have to take concentration away from the task at hand in order to manage your heat gauge. I think that most players have decided in their minds that an extra 12 rounds in a magazine just isn't worth all that trouble. I never understood why a lot of people pushed to have the heat player a greater role on the aSCR (you know ho you are). It used to not have to overheat unless you emptied an entire magazine, reloaded, and resumed shooting. There was never any balance justification besides "it's a scrambler rifle but it doesn't overheat!" Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6416	Posted - 2014.12.15 11:54:00 - [26] - Quote Its visual recoil does not match its actual recoil. That is what balances it out and keeps most people from using it. Those who know though have no issues with this weapon. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4930	Posted - 2014.12.15 14:40:00 - [27] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I believe that a large part of the issue with amarr weapons is a lot of the 'headspace' focus on heat mechanics (66% of their weapons not counting variants have heat mechanics. In theory to compensate for extremely punishing heat mechanics the laser and scr have to be 'overpowered' in some regard. Unfortunately the AScR lacks anything that makes it 'overpowered' enough in one area to compensate for being tied to heat mechanics. Also when you combine the fact that assault weapons are meant to be 'easy' to use you're left with two real options, buff the AScR and risk it being incredibly dominant over other weapons or separate it from potentially crippling heat mechanics opening up a niche for non amarr assaults that want to use a SCR variant. This is very much a possibility for why the AScR is unused. In fact, it might be the main reason. You can get just about the same weapon, minus the worry of overheating, by just using an AR. Its just much simpler to lay into a trigger on a weapon that let's you focus completely on aiming and tracking, than it is to to have to take concentration away from the task at hand in order to manage your heat gauge. I think that most players have decided in their minds that an extra 12 rounds in a magazine just isn't worth all that trouble. I gotta agree with this. The LR and ScR are so OP it's ridiculous... if they didn't overheat. The simple fact that the AScR is good but not great compared to other assault variants but nonetheless has the same punishing overheat mechanic is all the excuse the average player needs to stay the hell away from it. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4930	Posted - 2014.12.15 14:44:00 - [28] - Quote Also... I don't use it much currently (arguably my main weapon in 1.4-1.6 era) for 2 reasons: The PG cost is tough to absorb on the Amarr logi suit compared to the others, and it was so useless after Charlie (maybe Bravo? not sure) I deleted it from all the remaining fits it was on (moved to BrAR, if you are curious). I only mention that because I totally agreee with this: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Its visual recoil does not match its actual recoil. That is what balances it out and keeps most people from using it. Those who know though have no issues with this weapon. When I used it all the time I learned to deal with the flash and recoil. Using it only occasionally, the same thing happens to me that surely happens to people trying it out for the first time: The visual recoil totally fcks with your aim.* If you don't know any better, you get a little disoriented by the crazy muzzle flash, and, more importantly, you start trying to compensate for the recoil, even if it's only subconsciously. You start getting a lot of body shots and no headshots as you pull down to adjust for recoil that isn't actually there. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx 200	Posted - 2014.12.15 17:04:00 - [29] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: An unconventional fix that might work for the AScR: Heat=Damage Just like the laser. The higher your heat, the more damage per shot you do. Obviously this would have to only be in a small scale, perhaps 15% more damage at nearly maximum heat. But, I think this would add a nice rsk vs reward balance into the very mechanics of the AScR. You could risk overheating to get more damage, or you could play it safe and settle for a low damage. I REALLY like this idea
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7456	Posted - 2014.12.15 18:49:00 - [30] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I believe that a large part of the issue with amarr weapons is a lot of the 'headspace' focus on heat mechanics (66% of their weapons not counting variants have heat mechanics. In theory to compensate for extremely punishing heat mechanics the laser and scr have to be 'overpowered' in some regard. Unfortunately the AScR lacks anything that makes it 'overpowered' enough in one area to compensate for being tied to heat mechanics. Also when you combine the fact that assault weapons are meant to be 'easy' to use you're left with two real options, buff the AScR and risk it being incredibly dominant over other weapons or separate it from potentially crippling heat mechanics opening up a niche for non amarr assaults that want to use a SCR variant. This is very much a possibility for why the AScR is unused. In fact, it might be the main reason. You can get just about the same weapon, minus the worry of overheating, by just using an AR. Its just much simpler to lay into a trigger on a weapon that let's you focus completely on aiming and tracking, than it is to to have to take concentration away from the task at hand in order to manage your heat gauge. I think that most players have decided in their minds that an extra 12 rounds in a magazine just isn't worth all that trouble. I gotta agree with this. The LR and ScR are so OP it's ridiculous... if they didn't overheat. The simple fact that the AScR is good but not great compared to other assault variants but nonetheless has the same punishing overheat mechanic is all the excuse the average player needs to stay the hell away from it. Other than the fact that even without an Amarr Assault you can still dish out a whole 57 rounds (just three less than the AR has in it's mag since we're using that as some crazy baseline example in this thread) before it overheats. I don't think many players are going to "stay the hell away from it" when their target is either dead or in cover long before they overheat the weapon and if you manage to get to that point you're probably missing every single shot anyway. IMO, the best solution right now - without going crazy and changing a bunch of mechanics at once because of whack job theories that the weapon is under performing because it "isn't OP" (??!?!!) - is to simply increase the damage on the Proto tier so that it's higher than the ADV tier, and MAYBE reduce some of the jitter/muzzle flash since it seems to be this huge problem. Even though, personally, I think the jitter is the only thing causing any sort of drawback to long-range fire since it has zero (or negligible, in the words of KAGEHOSHI) muzzle climb. I don't think for a second that we need to immediately shoot for Laser-Rifle like damage increasing heat mechanics or changing what little heat mechanics it already has when there is an obvious, simple, glaring issue staring us right in the face. Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions



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