DUST Search - The ASCR Conundrum (I have no idea whats wrong with it)

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

I solved it here

Basically, although its supposed to be a shield killer specialist, the ADV ASCR does only 4 more damage per second as the GEK 38, and only 2 better than the ADV Breach.

The penalty difference vs armor is a whopping 78.6 damage less than the GEK and 83.9 damage less than the Breach.

To summerize the ASCR is an average rifle at best in its shield killing role, and has the largest penalty not only vs armor, but of all the rifles in dust.

I got a spreadsheet thrown together, will post it later. But yeah, the ASCR needs some help.

Kinda skewed don't you think? Why not show results for shield damage comparisons between the ASCR and the AR while you're mentioning armor =P

But as others commented in your thread, range is also a factor, as well as the fact that you never have to worry about upward muzzle climb. I'd imagine if people could see through the sepia tone filter on the screen when firing (referring to the muzzle flash) they'd be deadly accurate.


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Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 597	Posted - 2014.12.14 10:01:00 - [1] - Quote I solved it here Basically, although its supposed to be a shield killer specialist, the ADV ASCR does only 4 more damage per second as the GEK 38, and only 2 better than the ADV Breach. The penalty difference vs armor is a whopping 78.6 damage less than the GEK and 83.9 damage less than the Breach. To summerize the ASCR is an average rifle at best in its shield killing role, and has the largest penalty not only vs armor, but of all the rifles in dust. I got a spreadsheet thrown together, will post it later. But yeah, the ASCR needs some help. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 599	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:45:00 - [2] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: I solved it here Basically, although its supposed to be a shield killer specialist, the ADV ASCR does only 4 more damage per second as the GEK 38, and only 2 better than the ADV Breach. The penalty difference vs armor is a whopping 78.6 damage less than the GEK and 83.9 damage less than the Breach. To summerize the ASCR is an average rifle at best in its shield killing role, and has the largest penalty not only vs armor, but of all the rifles in dust. I got a spreadsheet thrown together, will post it later. But yeah, the ASCR needs some help. Kinda skewed don't you think? Why not show results for shield damage comparisons between the ASCR and the AR while you're mentioning armor =P But as others commented in your thread, range is also a factor, as well as the fact that you never have to worry about upward muzzle climb. I'd imagine if people could see through the sepia tone filter on the screen when firing (referring to the muzzle flash) they'd be deadly accurate. That is the results vs shields. Its supposed to be a specialist with a massive penalty to to armor, yet does only 2 more dps than its direct enemy ACBR vs Armor, or 4 more vs its direct shield killing competitor the gek 38. The range is a myth. Range is only slightly better than combat rifles by 5 meters. You don't have the range to make upfor its drawbacks, your don't have any more accuracy than a BK42, and a comparativley low rate of fire, for its lack of punch. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 604	Posted - 2014.12.15 18:54:00 - [3] - Quote Hey here is the spreadsheet where i demonstrate exactly what is wrong with the ASCR. Would like your feed back on my thread here, I think its a solution we can all agree on. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 614	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:30:00 - [4] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Give it and the ScR a +15/-15 profile. Keep the LR at +20/-20. This is two fold; not only does it align with the CR of -15/+15, but it also buffs the ASCR/SCR against armor. Now while people are sure to complain about the ScR getting more armor damage, this is a problem with the ScR itself, not a problem with the damage profile. Laser weaponry wasn't meant to be the polar opposite of projectiles, but rather explosive, which is +20/-20. Again, let's focus on the core issues before decided to touch on damage profile, which will cause problems later on if we need to do anything else to the weapon. The damage profile is the core issue. Right now vs shields the ASCR can give at good as it gets. But when it runs into armor the ADV ASCR and the Proto ASCR are are the worst rifles of all the rifles. Every ADV rifle vs its damage penalty (such as combat rifle vs shields) out performs the Proto ASCR. Compare the current Proto ASCR vs Armor the other rifles do: ADV Assault Rail + 6 more damage vs shields PRO Assault Rail + 47.76 more damage vs shields ADV Assault CBR +20.5 more damage vs Shields PRO Assault CBR + 39.84 more damage vs shields ADV Gek 38 + 60.8 more damage vs Armor PRO Duvolle AR + 82.12 more damage vs Armor A direct buff to armor via ROF or damage would make it very OP vs shields. Tweak the damage profile a bit and up the ROF by 4% and the Proto ASCR will do better than every ADV assault variant rifle penalty except the GEK (still the short rnge hybrid king) but it has range to make up for it. The ASCR will fall right in line. Compared to the Proto ASCR vs Armor the other rifles now do Pro Assault RR - 15.96 less damage than Pro ASCR vs shields Proto Assault CBR - 0.75 less damage than Pro ASCR vs shields Proto Duvolle AR +45 vs more damage than Pro ASCR vs armor ADV Assault Rail - 32.9 less damage than Pro ASCR vs shields ADV Assault CBR - 20.2 less damage than Pro ASCR vs shields ADV Gek 38 AR +20. 1 more damage than Pro ASCR vs armor Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 616	Posted - 2014.12.16 06:09:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Kay, seriously, the damage profile argument is really grasping at straws, especially when there's this much effort going into it. You're saying that because the damage profile is +20/-20 that the weapon is somehow flawed or impractical, yet we have an entire line-up of explosive weapons that have the exact opposite damage profile that no-one complains about. Mass Drivers, Flaylock Pistols, Grenades. More-over, the Laser Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, and Scrambler Pistol all do very well even despite this +20/-20 setup. The fact that it's being described as 'it has to be OP for it to be viable because #heat' is really... I can't even begin to wrap my head around it. I'd sooner say just remove the heat factor all together than change the damage profile on just the one weapon to accommodate for the fact that there's this warped scape-goat around it. I don't think so. The puzzle for the Devs is why is a weapon that put out as much damage as the other rifles so unpopular? Its because mathematically its Damage penalty is far out of proportion to the other rifles of the same class. Put two mercs facing each other, with identical EHP and armor to shield ratio, the Proto ASCR will lose to every ADV rifle every single time, by quite a large margin. Muzzle flash, heat and recoil was never an issue with the Geks or Duvolles, yet they were extremely unpopular as well when their damage application was seen as inferior. Heat doesn't really play a factor in in this. Bring the damage penalty in line with the other rifles is the first step. It would still suck vs armor, but not as bad as before. Better a hotfix than endless animation tweaks, heat build up, heat cooldown, etc. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.