DUST Search - THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE ASCR

hfderrtgvcd wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:

I don't see how this might be a problem but the only true way might see something that could work is the following.
Remember when projectile weapons had a -5/+10? It was changed to balance out the rest of the weapons. I donly see how laser weapons would be over powered if they get a little twist. It's currently +20/-20 I believe. You mind doing the math if you switch it to +20/-15? I don't really see how else the asr could be fixed. I'd also like you to try this with laser/scrambler rifles to see how their stats would change.

-15% damage profile would give the ASCR 340 dmg per second, its still the most inferior weapon.

Say we made changed its damage profile to + 15 - 15

We get :

460 vs shield 340 vs armor

It still does about 3% or 13 less damage than a CBR worst case and falls behing by 18 points best case

But if we up the ROF by 4%

705.88 + 4% = 705.88 + 28.2352 = 734.1152

Shots per second = 727.0564 / 60 = 12.2352

Damage per second base = 34.1 x 12.2352 = 417.22032

+15% = 417.22032 + 62.583038 = 479.803368

- 15% = 417.22032 - 62.583038 = 354.637272

Best case scenario

1hp better than the ACBR

Worst case secnario

1hp better than ACBR.

i.e roughly identical to the ACBR with a difference in dmg of 0.2% best case and 0.2% worst case.

The gek would still be slightly worse vs shields and still remain better vs armor, in keeping with gallente hybrid blaster tech. The ARR would not have as much dmg but can still hit very hard a longer ranges. Would still be better by 6 hp in the worst case scenario, and keeps its range as a tactical advantage in the best case scenario. the ARR might need some more love, but i don't think player data supports that.

tl;dr to make the assault scrambler rifle viable up ROF by 4% and change its damage profile to +15 vs shields and -15 vs armor. The math for once holds up.

You can't change the damage profile just for the assault scrambler. You would have to change it for all laser weaponry. That would make the breach scp, laser rifle, and scrambler quite overpowered.

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Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 596	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:14:00 - [1] - Quote Cool, so rattati wants the ASCR to be compared to another factional rifle. Basically we need it to counter its natural enemy, the minmatar's close range weapon the Assault combat rifle. I 'm comapring the Advanced variants because those are the one more likley to be used. Proto can be tweaked up and down as necessary. CRD-9 ASCR - Damage: 34.1 HP - ROF :705.88RPM - Charge-Up Time: 2s - Clip Size :72 - Max. Ammo: 325 - Reload Time: 2.5 - Heat Build-Up Per Second: 21 - Seize Duration: 5s - Feedback Damage: 50HP - Effective Range: 88m - Absolute Range: 250m - Lazer + 20% shields - 20% vs armor BK-42 Assault Combat Rifle - Damage: 20.837HP - ROF: 1200RPM - Clip Size: 68 - Max. Ammo: 408 - Reload Time: 2.6s - Effective Range: 79m - Absolute Range: 250m - Projectile - 15% vs shields + 15 vs armor The GEK-38 by comparision does 800 RPM with 32.5 damage per shot. The SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle does 600 RPM but does 40 damage per shot. Per second damage ( RPM / 60 ) Combat rifle: 20 shots x 20.83 dmg = 416.6 ASCR: 11.75 shots x 34.1 dmg = 400 GEK: 13.3 shots x 32.5 dmg = 433 ARR: 10 shots x 40=dmg 400 Profile damage Sheilds VS Armor ACBR: 353.6 vs 478 ASCR: 480 vs 320 Gek: 476 vs 389 ARR: 360 vs 480 As you can see the ASCR has the highest penalty which does the lowest damage of all the rifles. ASCR does 33 less damage per second that its racial and mathematical rival the ACBR. 40 less the the ARR, and 69 worse than the GEK. At the same time it only ties the ARR in terms of maximum damage, and yet is only 3 more damage ahead of the gek 38 vs shields, and only 2 more damage compared to the ACBR vs armor. Scramblers are supoosed to be shield killers and its bonus to shield damage barely keeps up with the other rifles bonus. Its massive penalty is far beyond any other weapons, which makes it the worst choice of them all. I met the other forum warriors decide how to fix this. Personally, i would go for a combined DPS buff and maybe an adjustment on the Profile to get the penalty up to around 355 - 360 damage Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
hfderrtgvcd 1524	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:33:00 - [2] - Quote Your numbers are off for the arr. Its damage versus armor is only 440. That said, the gek completely outclasses the ASCR. It does nearly the same dps vs shields and much more dps to armor. It also as much less muzzl flash and recoil. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 596	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:34:00 - [3] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Your numbers are off for the arr. Its damage versus armor is only 440. That said, the gek completely outclasses the ASCR. It does nearly the same dps vs shields and much more dps to armor. It also as much less muzzl flash and recoil. correcting now. Now that you mention it, it looks like the ARR needs a bit more love too. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
BL4CKST4R Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3464	Posted - 2014.12.13 17:43:00 - [4] - Quote The aSCR is longer range that's why it's DPS is lower. Effective range is useless in determining weapon performance, use optimal range values. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 596	Posted - 2014.12.13 18:41:00 - [5] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: The aSCR is longer range that's why it's DPS is lower. Effective range is useless in determining weapon performance, use optimal range values. Optimal range for the ASCR is 55 meters compared to the ACBR of 50. The regular scrambler rifle has an optimal of 72m by comaprion. That and its charge shot means it has more engagement option. For the ASCR 5 meters is a poor trade off of doing 2 more damage under each weapons best cricumstances and losing 33 damage in each weapons worst. Plus base minmatar sprint speed can cover those 5 meters in under a second. When things go south, of all the weapons the ASCR is the worst one to carry. Thats why its the least popular. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 122	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:37:00 - [6] - Quote I don't see how this might be a problem but the only true way might see something that could work is the following. Remember when projectile weapons had a -5/+10? It was changed to balance out the rest of the weapons. I donly see how laser weapons would be over powered if they get a little twist. It's currently +20/-20 I believe. You mind doing the math if you switch it to +20/-15? I don't really see how else the asr could be fixed. I'd also like you to try this with laser/scrambler rifles to see how their stats would change. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 122	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:40:00 - [7] - Quote See, the problem is that most players are armor tankers. The only other solution I can think of is giving the amarr assault an asr bonus to armor damage. That way only the asr is bet used with a racial fitting and not making it as over powered or misused, let's say with a cloaked scout. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15842	Posted - 2014.12.13 21:41:00 - [8] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: The aSCR is longer range that's why it's DPS is lower. Effective range is useless in determining weapon performance, use optimal range values. And yet at no time ever in Mother Game EVE does a pulse laser have more range or less DPS than Railguns....... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 597	Posted - 2014.12.13 22:50:00 - [9] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I don't see how this might be a problem but the only true way might see something that could work is the following. Remember when projectile weapons had a -5/+10? It was changed to balance out the rest of the weapons. I donly see how laser weapons would be over powered if they get a little twist. It's currently +20/-20 I believe. You mind doing the math if you switch it to +20/-15? I don't really see how else the asr could be fixed. I'd also like you to try this with laser/scrambler rifles to see how their stats would change. -15% damage profile would give the ASCR 340 dmg per second, its still the most inferior weapon. Say we made changed its damage profile to + 15 - 15 We get : 460 vs shield 340 vs armor It still does about 3% or 13 less damage than a CBR worst case and falls behing by 18 points best case But if we up the ROF by 4% 705.88 + 4% = 705.88 + 28.2352 = 734.1152 Shots per second = 727.0564 / 60 = 12.2352 Damage per second base = 34.1 x 12.2352 = 417.22032 +15% = 417.22032 + 62.583038 = 479.803368 - 15% = 417.22032 - 62.583038 = 354.637272 Best case scenario 1hp better than the ACBR Worst case secnario 1hp better than ACBR. i.e roughly identical to the ACBR with a difference in dmg of 0.2% best case and 0.2% worst case. The gek would still be slightly worse vs shields and still remain better vs armor, in keeping with gallente hybrid blaster tech. The ARR would not have as much dmg but can still hit very hard a longer ranges. Would still be better by 6 hp in the worst case scenario, and keeps its range as a tactical advantage in the best case scenario. the ARR might need some more love, but i don't think player data supports that. tl;dr to make the assault scrambler rifle viable up ROF by 4% and change its damage profile to +15 vs shields and -15 vs armor. The math for once holds up. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 194	Posted - 2014.12.13 22:54:00 - [10] - Quote They say its got range but you practicallyhave to cram the barrelup someones pooper to do dmg with it

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 597	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:10:00 - [11] - Quote JUDASisMYhomeboy wrote: They say its got range but you practicallyhave to cram the barrelup someones pooper to do dmg with it The regular scrambler rilfe has great range. The Assault variants however do not. 55 m optimal is as 5 m better than a assault combat rifle, compared to 72m with the assault rail rifle. Basically give them the roughly the same optimal, near identical damage but a reverse damage profile than the minmatar. You will still be in trouble when ever you run into armor stacked suits, but it won't be as comical as it is now. Gallete rifles will still be king of CQC. Caldari rifles king of long range. Amarr and the minmatar duke it out medium to close range. The regular combat rifle has a greater optimal than the assault scrambler. The regular scrambler has a greater optimal than both but is be the worst CQC of the lot (overheats quickly, high damage feedback, and if the charge shot misses is a sitting duck). assault scrambler might get the dps but cannot pput down the sustained fire of the minmatar, or engage in mulitple targets as quickly as the minmatar. 1 vs 1 in cqc the minmatar edges it because it has a shield penalty amarr moslty fit armor tanks, so it has short duration with a dmg penalty but a longer duration of bonus damage than the ASCR. The ASCR has a short duration of damage bonus but potentially a lower duration of damage penalties dependin on the minmatar fit. Kind of balanced i would say. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
hfderrtgvcd 1526	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:14:00 - [12] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I don't see how this might be a problem but the only true way might see something that could work is the following. Remember when projectile weapons had a -5/+10? It was changed to balance out the rest of the weapons. I donly see how laser weapons would be over powered if they get a little twist. It's currently +20/-20 I believe. You mind doing the math if you switch it to +20/-15? I don't really see how else the asr could be fixed. I'd also like you to try this with laser/scrambler rifles to see how their stats would change. -15% damage profile would give the ASCR 340 dmg per second, its still the most inferior weapon. Say we made changed its damage profile to + 15 - 15 We get : 460 vs shield 340 vs armor It still does about 3% or 13 less damage than a CBR worst case and falls behing by 18 points best case But if we up the ROF by 4% 705.88 + 4% = 705.88 + 28.2352 = 734.1152 Shots per second = 727.0564 / 60 = 12.2352 Damage per second base = 34.1 x 12.2352 = 417.22032 +15% = 417.22032 + 62.583038 = 479.803368 - 15% = 417.22032 - 62.583038 = 354.637272 Best case scenario 1hp better than the ACBR Worst case secnario 1hp better than ACBR. i.e roughly identical to the ACBR with a difference in dmg of 0.2% best case and 0.2% worst case. The gek would still be slightly worse vs shields and still remain better vs armor, in keeping with gallente hybrid blaster tech. The ARR would not have as much dmg but can still hit very hard a longer ranges. Would still be better by 6 hp in the worst case scenario, and keeps its range as a tactical advantage in the best case scenario. the ARR might need some more love, but i don't think player data supports that. tl;dr to make the assault scrambler rifle viable up ROF by 4% and change its damage profile to +15 vs shields and -15 vs armor. The math for once holds up. You can't change the damage profile just for the assault scrambler. You would have to change it for all laser weaponry. That would make the breach scp, laser rifle, and scrambler quite overpowered. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 597	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:19:00 - [13] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: You can't change the damage profile just for the assault scrambler. You would have to change it for all laser weaponry. That would make the breach scp, laser rifle, and scrambler quite overpowered. Why not? Why can't the devs make a dmg profile subcategory for the assaults variants? As much as i want to keep with Lore, at the end of the day, its just code. Its not carved into stone. We can do what we want with it. I think it balances out the assault quite nicely. And there is no need to tweak everything in respect to it. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15846	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:36:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: You can't change the damage profile just for the assault scrambler. You would have to change it for all laser weaponry. That would make the breach scp, laser rifle, and scrambler quite overpowered. Why not? Why can't the devs make a dmg profile subcategory for the assaults variants? As much as i want to keep with Lore, at the end of the day, its just code. Its not carved into stone. We can do what we want with it. I think it balances out the assault quite nicely. And there is no need to tweak everything in respect to it. I honestly find this lets change damage types cuz we can...... a very bad idea. Would be so much simpler if we had the 4 classic types with static profiles. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1397	Posted - 2014.12.13 23:36:00 - [15] - Quote AScR is pretty bad so i hope it gets buffed. Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 122	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:36:00 - [16] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I don't see how this might be a problem but the only true way might see something that could work is the following. Remember when projectile weapons had a -5/+10? It was changed to balance out the rest of the weapons. I donly see how laser weapons would be over powered if they get a little twist. It's currently +20/-20 I believe. You mind doing the math if you switch it to +20/-15? I don't really see how else the asr could be fixed. I'd also like you to try this with laser/scrambler rifles to see how their stats would change. -15% damage profile would give the ASCR 340 dmg per second, its still the most inferior weapon. Say we made changed its damage profile to + 15 - 15 We get : 460 vs shield 340 vs armor It still does about 3% or 13 less damage than a CBR worst case and falls behing by 18 points best case But if we up the ROF by 4% 705.88 + 4% = 705.88 + 28.2352 = 734.1152 Shots per second = 727.0564 / 60 = 12.2352 Damage per second base = 34.1 x 12.2352 = 417.22032 +15% = 417.22032 + 62.583038 = 479.803368 - 15% = 417.22032 - 62.583038 = 354.637272 Best case scenario 1hp better than the ACBR Worst case secnario 1hp better than ACBR. i.e roughly identical to the ACBR with a difference in dmg of 0.2% best case and 0.2% worst case. The gek would still be slightly worse vs shields and still remain better vs armor, in keeping with gallente hybrid blaster tech. The ARR would not have as much dmg but can still hit very hard a longer ranges. Would still be better by 6 hp in the worst case scenario, and keeps its range as a tactical advantage in the best case scenario. the ARR might need some more love, but i don't think player data supports that. tl;dr to make the assault scrambler rifle viable up ROF by 4% and change its damage profile to +15 vs shields and -15 vs armor. The math for once holds up. You can't change the damage profile just for the assault scrambler. You would have to change it for all laser weaponry. That would make the breach scp, laser rifle, and scrambler quite overpowered. That's one reason why I said there could be a bonus to only that rifle, the same way the min get a bonus to nova knives. I mean, I don't really see how it might annoy people that only amarr can use it to its full potential and that the other laser weapons don't get a bonus. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 122	Posted - 2014.12.14 00:43:00 - [17] - Quote The final solution I would have is to increase its headshot bonus. I mean, it shoots fast enough to scramble someone without really scrambling them. If you increase its headshot bonus, then you at least have a better chance of killing people without have to really "change" the weapon. I personally would like to see this actually. If you think about it it might work. I mean, you have long range and shoot dozens of shots in second, all you would do at mid to far range is aim for the head and fire for a few seconds. At close to mid range, just shoot at the top of the enemy. It will be likely that you will headshot him. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 598	Posted - 2014.12.14 19:56:00 - [18] - Quote bump Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.


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