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[Hotfix Echo] Sagaris

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DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 729	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:34:00 - [1] - Quote what stats would we want? (realistically of course) anyone have the old that can post them here for reference?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19969	Posted - 2014.12.09 21:39:00 - [2] - Quote The old Sagaris stats were: 3120 shields 1000 armour 24 HP/s shield regen 365 CPU 1840 PG 5 high slots 3 low slots However, the Sagaris existed at a time when vehicles worked very, very differently. These stats in the game now would not work. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.09 22:17:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The old Sagaris stats were: 3120 shields 1000 armour 24 HP/s shield regen 365 CPU 1840 PG 5 high slots 3 low slots However, the Sagaris existed at a time when vehicles worked very, very differently. These stats in the game now would not work. It's not going to be easy to balance Marauders using only 4 slots. I was going to suggest a Passive Tanked fit under the new model of regeneration I've suggested....... but that would be a Gunlogi with 400 more Shield HP. However if we don't adjust Shield regeneration rates we'll just have incredibly expensive arguably worse than OP Marauder tanks....... The fit (a Passive Tank) I wanted to suggest was something like Shield 3120 Armour 1000 5/2 3x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Shield Regenerator 1x Shield Hardener (@ 30% not 40) 1x PG Extender 1x Power Diagnostic Unit (if your remember these modules increase PG and Shield Regen by up to 9%) Total Shield 7095 Total Armour 1000 Shield EHP 9223.5 Total EHP 10223.5 With base regen of 24 Shield/sec plus skills for the modules (+25% regen) plus a 20% regen module, and a 9% module you get almost 40 rep/sec which is respectable but ensures that damage applied stays applied for longer. Critique this suggestion harshly please. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3403	Posted - 2014.12.09 22:49:00 - [4] - Quote Will it 1 shot bolas? If the answer is no, then it's not worth. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 729	Posted - 2014.12.09 22:57:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The old Sagaris stats were: 3120 shields 1000 armour 24 HP/s shield regen 365 CPU 1840 PG 5 high slots 3 low slots However, the Sagaris existed at a time when vehicles worked very, very differently. These stats in the game now would not work. It's not going to be easy to balance Marauders using only 4 slots. I was going to suggest a Passive Tanked fit under the new model of regeneration I've suggested....... but that would be a Gunlogi with 400 more Shield HP. However if we don't adjust Shield regeneration rates we'll just have incredibly expensive arguably worse than OP Marauder tanks....... The fit (a Passive Tank) I wanted to suggest was something like Shield 3120 Armour 1000 5/2 3x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Shield Regenerator 1x Shield Hardener (@ 30% not 40) 1x PG Extender 1x Power Diagnostic Unit (if your remember these modules increase PG and Shield Regen by up to 9%) Total Shield 7095 Total Armour 1000 Shield EHP 9223.5 Total EHP 10223.5 With base regen of 24 Shield/sec plus skills for the modules (+25% regen) plus a 20% regen module, and a 9% module you get almost 40 rep/sec which is respectable but ensures that damage applied stays applied for longer. Critique this suggestion harshly please. 40hp/s doesn't seem very competitive compared to passive armor reps. Should be 2 or 3 times the comparative amount of armor reps. And we should balance CPU/PG at level 5 skills so we don't need fitting mods
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:09:00 - [6] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The old Sagaris stats were: 3120 shields 1000 armour 24 HP/s shield regen 365 CPU 1840 PG 5 high slots 3 low slots However, the Sagaris existed at a time when vehicles worked very, very differently. These stats in the game now would not work. It's not going to be easy to balance Marauders using only 4 slots. I was going to suggest a Passive Tanked fit under the new model of regeneration I've suggested....... but that would be a Gunlogi with 400 more Shield HP. However if we don't adjust Shield regeneration rates we'll just have incredibly expensive arguably worse than OP Marauder tanks....... The fit (a Passive Tank) I wanted to suggest was something like Shield 3120 Armour 1000 5/2 3x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Shield Regenerator 1x Shield Hardener (@ 30% not 40) 1x PG Extender 1x Power Diagnostic Unit (if your remember these modules increase PG and Shield Regen by up to 9%) Total Shield 7095 Total Armour 1000 Shield EHP 9223.5 Total EHP 10223.5 With base regen of 24 Shield/sec plus skills for the modules (+25% regen) plus a 20% regen module, and a 9% module you get almost 40 rep/sec which is respectable but ensures that damage applied stays applied for longer. Critique this suggestion harshly please. 40hp/s doesn't seem very competitive compared to passive armor reps. Should be 2 or 3 times the comparative amount of armor reps. And we should balance CPU/PG at level 5 skills so we don't need fitting mods There will be no passive armour reps. **** them they need to die in a fire. As for fitting modules I currently see and huge imbalance in this especially for Shield HAV to the point where a Shield HAV that can fit its full racial tank and turret options without the use of fitting modules can abuse them to stack armour modules. This should never be possible EVER for any reason. But consider this. If CCP Rattati is serious about allowing for new modules and the return of old modules you not only have ammunition, Torque, Tracking Enhancers, and other weapons modifying modules. Not to mention I mentioned the Power Diagnostic Unit which does increase PG and Shield Regen rates. If a Sagaris is on the field and has as much Shield EHP as I have suggested it should never be able to stack or modify with armour modules. This however is only and example of a PASSIVE EHP tank that relies on its Shield Regen and Hardeners. Other variations will exist with Marauders having 2x Complex Extenders, Hardeners, Boosters, etc allowing EHP to spike when required or it due to the Shield Boosters instantaneous 1900 Shield Injection. By comparison an Armour tank will have similar HP values with less plate stacking, but not have any passive reps. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3895	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:16:00 - [7] - Quote Currently shield vehicles have the benefit of stacking multiple hardeners which performat 15% greater efficiency than armor hardeners allowing them massive eHP, with a pretty sizable amount of shield regen on top of that. In addition, with limited Anti-Shield AV as well as no Laser turrets (compared to Explosive Missiles), Shield vehicles have a sizable advantage over armor vehicle, so something has to give. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:18:00 - [8] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Currently shield vehicles have the benefit of stacking multiple hardeners which performat 15% greater efficiency than armor hardeners allowing them massive eHP, with a pretty sizable amount of shield regen on top of that. In addition, with limited Anti-Shield AV as well as no Laser turrets (compared to Explosive Missiles), Shield vehicles have a sizable advantage over armor vehicle, so something has to give. Just looking at my suggested fit would you consider that "fair" or could you see ways to abuse it? *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3895	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:22:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Currently shield vehicles have the benefit of stacking multiple hardeners which performat 15% greater efficiency than armor hardeners allowing them massive eHP, with a pretty sizable amount of shield regen on top of that. In addition, with limited Anti-Shield AV as well as no Laser turrets (compared to Explosive Missiles), Shield vehicles have a sizable advantage over armor vehicle, so something has to give. Just looking at my suggested fit would you consider that "fair" or could you see ways to abuse it? Well you basically built a Drake on Treads, which is innately obnoxious but I don't have any glaring issues with it. Only thing I worry about is that at that rate, it's nearly 3 minutes to recharge from 0% to full shields. I guess for me the question comes down to "Should HAVs have poor regen with high HP and be more reliant on Logistics to maintain said HP?" That's somewhat how Sentinels work. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:29:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Currently shield vehicles have the benefit of stacking multiple hardeners which performat 15% greater efficiency than armor hardeners allowing them massive eHP, with a pretty sizable amount of shield regen on top of that. In addition, with limited Anti-Shield AV as well as no Laser turrets (compared to Explosive Missiles), Shield vehicles have a sizable advantage over armor vehicle, so something has to give. Just looking at my suggested fit would you consider that "fair" or could you see ways to abuse it? Well you basically built a Drake on Treads, which is innately obnoxious but I don't have any glaring issues with it. Only thing I worry about is that at that rate, it's nearly 3 minutes to recharge from 0% to full shields. I guess for me the question comes down to "Should HAVs have poor regen with high HP and be more reliant on Logistics to maintain said HP?" That's somewhat how Sentinels work. I think HAV should be able to adjust their style. You either compromise for great EHP values and have less regenerations or you have solid regeneration and less EHP. E.G- The "Drake" Tank has massive EHP but suffers a lack of regenerative capacity. Another fit I could propose could have the standard 2x Extender, 1x Hardener, and two Boosters of varying size and efficiency. Comparatively this second fit has less EHP and significantly less passive regen but can re-actively tank according to damage taken making it more adaptable. The Latter would be likely a better solo tank, the former if Remote Reps were introduced would be a better squadron tank. EDIT - I should note that that bloody Hardener in the last calculation is active and likely should not be able to be fitted like that. Perhaps one of the only Passive Shield Ward Resistance Amplifiers or something would better? In assuming that it was an active hardener it has higher EHP than any armour HAV I can create but assuming its a passive mod @ 20-25% It could work wonders and reduce the need for that PG Extender allowing for the PDU and boosting shield regen up to around 45 per second. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.

DarthJT5 12th Shadow Legion 129	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:32:00 - [11] - Quote I suggest a 5/2 layout, 3500 shield/1250 armour, along with increased CPU and pg by about 20% to account for the extra slots, should cost about 450-600k isk for the hull. Maybe decreased speed but I don't see why it needs any drawbacks, seeing as how when an infantry goes from basic to assault they only get benefits. Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3895	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:35:00 - [12] - Quote Oh I'm totally on board with the high eHP low regen, I was more questioning the degree of that effect. Upping the regen to 45/s brings you to a bit over 2.5 minutes regen which is looking a bit better. I mean in that regard it comes down to tweaking the numbers, but I think you're on the right track, particularly if we go with my working model for Pilot Suits. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:36:00 - [13] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: I suggest a 5/2 layout, 3500 shield/1250 armour, along with increased CPU and pg by about 20% to account for the extra slots, should cost about 450-600k isk for the hull. Maybe decreased speed but I don't see why it needs any drawbacks, seeing as how when an infantry goes from basic to assault they only get benefits. Will need to cost more. The Hull itself could cost around 757,000 ISK (do you think this number is fair) In regards to having and additional two slots and 500 more modifiable EHP your suggestion would borderline make the Sagaris OP as hell. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:39:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Oh I'm totally on board with the high eHP low regen, I was more questioning the degree of that effect. Upping the regen to 45/s brings you to a bit over 2.5 minutes regen which is looking a bit better. I mean in that regard it comes down to tweaking the numbers, but I think you're on the right track, particularly if we go with my working model for Pilot Suits. Also consider that under your model and armour tank will require 2.5 cycles of a rep module to return to full HP, that could be up to 30 seconds per module activation with a down time of 30 seconds again..... that roughly equates to the same down time for armour HAV. The more I talk about Drake Tanks the more I can imagine 3 man squadrons with 2x 10K Passive Tanks and one light tank behind the lines fully equipped with Remote Shield Reps....... The whole cost for the column would be well over 5 million ISK...... and wholly reliant on that small HAV to keep them alive. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
DarthJT5 12th Shadow Legion 129	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:41:00 - [15] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: I suggest a 5/2 layout, 3500 shield/1250 armour, along with increased CPU and pg by about 20% to account for the extra slots, should cost about 450-600k isk for the hull. Maybe decreased speed but I don't see why it needs any drawbacks, seeing as how when an infantry goes from basic to assault they only get benefits. Will need to cost more. The Hull itself could cost around 757,000 ISK (do you think this number is fair) In regards to having and additional two slots and 500 more modifiable EHP your suggestion would borderline make the Sagaris OP as hell. Lol I haven't dealt with stats in a while true, pardon me for my rustiness. Heck, why don't we make the hulls cost 1.2m again that would be fun XD Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:43:00 - [16] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: I suggest a 5/2 layout, 3500 shield/1250 armour, along with increased CPU and pg by about 20% to account for the extra slots, should cost about 450-600k isk for the hull. Maybe decreased speed but I don't see why it needs any drawbacks, seeing as how when an infantry goes from basic to assault they only get benefits. Will need to cost more. The Hull itself could cost around 757,000 ISK (do you think this number is fair) In regards to having and additional two slots and 500 more modifiable EHP your suggestion would borderline make the Sagaris OP as hell. Lol I haven't dealt with stats in a while true, pardon me for my rustiness. Heck, why don't we make the hulls cost 1.2m again that would be fun XD Sorry I'm not trying to be antagonistic....just passionate about the subject. Personally I wouldn't mind the high costs. Would give infantry one less reason to whine. Also with the alterations I believe it will also bring Gunnlogi back into line vs Madrugars as currently their is no competition. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2689	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:46:00 - [17] - Quote I think we should discuss in general terms of relative terms (such as, "Compaired to the Gunnlogi..."). I mean, CCP will come up with their own numbers anyway, it would probably be best to describe what we want specifically and have them fit the bill. Personally, I think they should be glass cannons: high damage output but little defenses (compared to a gunnlogi), a bit faster and more agile (similar to ADSs). Either that or high damage, high resistance, but like 10% the movement speed. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14233	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:48:00 - [18] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The old Sagaris stats were: 3120 shields 1000 armour 24 HP/s shield regen 365 CPU 1840 PG 5 high slots 3 low slots However, the Sagaris existed at a time when vehicles worked very, very differently. These stats in the game now would not work. It's not going to be easy to balance Marauders using only 4 slots. I was going to suggest a Passive Tanked fit under the new model of regeneration I've suggested....... but that would be a Gunlogi with 400 more Shield HP. However if we don't adjust Shield regeneration rates we'll just have incredibly expensive arguably worse than OP Marauder tanks....... The fit (a Passive Tank) I wanted to suggest was something like Shield 3120 Armour 1000 5/2 3x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Shield Regenerator 1x Shield Hardener (@ 30% not 40) 1x PG Extender 1x Power Diagnostic Unit (if your remember these modules increase PG and Shield Regen by up to 9%) Total Shield 7095 Total Armour 1000 Shield EHP 9223.5 Total EHP 10223.5 With base regen of 24 Shield/sec plus skills for the modules (+25% regen) plus a 20% regen module, and a 9% module you get almost 40 rep/sec which is respectable but ensures that damage applied stays applied for longer. Critique this suggestion harshly please. I'll make a spreadsheet of the TTK vs different AV weapons and get back to you on that. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3895	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:50:00 - [19] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Oh I'm totally on board with the high eHP low regen, I was more questioning the degree of that effect. Upping the regen to 45/s brings you to a bit over 2.5 minutes regen which is looking a bit better. I mean in that regard it comes down to tweaking the numbers, but I think you're on the right track, particularly if we go with my working model for Pilot Suits. Also consider that under your model and armour tank will require 2.5 cycles of a rep module to return to full HP, that could be up to 30 seconds per module activation with a down time of 30 seconds again..... that roughly equates to the same down time for armour HAV. The more I talk about Drake Tanks the more I can imagine 3 man squadrons with 2x 10K Passive Tanks and one light tank behind the lines fully equipped with Remote Shield Reps....... The whole cost for the column would be well over 5 million ISK...... and wholly reliant on that small HAV to keep them alive. I would rather love making Vehicle Logistics a thing again. Underutilized in the past, nonexistent now. I'll be the first to admit that vehicle Logistic is really my ideal role in this game so I will always push for it. I think another important question to ask is, assuming the existence of Remote Armor Reps and Shield Transporters, how would those compare in HP/s? EDIT: Also I HATE trying to balance things via ISK cost. I"m fine with specialty vehicles being more expensive but I don't want prices to get so high that the loss of one means you're in the red for the next 2-3 hours either. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
DarthJT5 12th Shadow Legion 129	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:53:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: I suggest a 5/2 layout, 3500 shield/1250 armour, along with increased CPU and pg by about 20% to account for the extra slots, should cost about 450-600k isk for the hull. Maybe decreased speed but I don't see why it needs any drawbacks, seeing as how when an infantry goes from basic to assault they only get benefits. Will need to cost more. The Hull itself could cost around 757,000 ISK (do you think this number is fair) In regards to having and additional two slots and 500 more modifiable EHP your suggestion would borderline make the Sagaris OP as hell. Lol I haven't dealt with stats in a while true, pardon me for my rustiness. Heck, why don't we make the hulls cost 1.2m again that would be fun XD Sorry I'm not trying to be antagonistic....just passionate about the subject. Personally I wouldn't mind the high costs. Would give infantry one less reason to whine. Also with the alterations I believe it will also bring Gunnlogi back into line vs Madrugars as currently their is no competition. IMO, gunnlogi should stay where they're at while removing the ability to dual tank. That's the biggest problem is when I see 3000 armour 4000 shield gunnies on the field. Maddies should rule in ehp, like 6000 ish armour, along with a choice between either a active or passive rep. Maybe 75 hp/s for a complex passive and 450 hp/s for 15 seconds on a complex active rep. Please tell me how bad my suggestions are. EDIT: this is considering having the best modules on the tank. Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....

Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 407	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:53:00 - [21] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Currently shield vehicles have the benefit of stacking multiple hardeners which performat 15% greater efficiency than armor hardeners allowing them massive eHP, with a pretty sizable amount of shield regen on top of that. In addition, with limited Anti-Shield AV as well as no Laser turrets (compared to Explosive Missiles), Shield vehicles have a sizable advantage over armor vehicle, so something has to give. I think that with the new 300WP OB that drops almost instantly, the shield tanks have now something real to fear. I destroyed many shield tanks with friends using this OB tonight and it's an amazing technic! Just saying tho^^ I don't know enough about tanks to deal with them much more than that x) Assault, Logi, Scout, Heavy.. What do you need?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3895	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:56:00 - [22] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Currently shield vehicles have the benefit of stacking multiple hardeners which performat 15% greater efficiency than armor hardeners allowing them massive eHP, with a pretty sizable amount of shield regen on top of that. In addition, with limited Anti-Shield AV as well as no Laser turrets (compared to Explosive Missiles), Shield vehicles have a sizable advantage over armor vehicle, so something has to give. I think that with the new 300WP OB that drops almost instantly, the shield tanks have now something real to fear. I destroyed many shield tanks with friends using this OB tonight and it's an amazing technic! Just saying tho^^ I don't know enough about tanks to deal with them much more than that x) Well keep in mind your normal Warbarge OB is 24 volleys, the new ones are....2 I think. So 8.3% of the damage, and it's only to shields. And even if it was significant, Warbarge Orbitals don't exist in Facwar or PC, so you really can't count Orbitals as a balancing mechanic for one type of vehicle over the other. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3896	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:03:00 - [23] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: I suggest a 5/2 layout, 3500 shield/1250 armour, along with increased CPU and pg by about 20% to account for the extra slots, should cost about 450-600k isk for the hull. Maybe decreased speed but I don't see why it needs any drawbacks, seeing as how when an infantry goes from basic to assault they only get benefits. Will need to cost more. The Hull itself could cost around 757,000 ISK (do you think this number is fair) In regards to having and additional two slots and 500 more modifiable EHP your suggestion would borderline make the Sagaris OP as hell. Lol I haven't dealt with stats in a while true, pardon me for my rustiness. Heck, why don't we make the hulls cost 1.2m again that would be fun XD Sorry I'm not trying to be antagonistic....just passionate about the subject. Personally I wouldn't mind the high costs. Would give infantry one less reason to whine. Also with the alterations I believe it will also bring Gunnlogi back into line vs Madrugars as currently their is no competition. IMO, gunnlogi should stay where they're at while removing the ability to dual tank. That's the biggest problem is when I see 3000 armour 4000 shield gunnies on the field. Maddies should rule in ehp, like 6000 ish armour, along with a choice between either a active or passive rep. Maybe 75 hp/s for a complex passive and 450 hp/s for 15 seconds on a complex active rep. Please tell me how bad my suggestions are. The issue isn't the dual tanking. The issue is that currently shield HAVs had 3 high slots. Their shield regen naturally which means they dont need to use a repper of any kind. This allows them to stack 2 hardeners at 40% each on top of a shield extender. Armor on the other hand has to use a repper, which means they get similar levels of reps, but only a single plate and a single 25% hardener. And while its true that the plate gives more raw HP than an extender, resists are FAR better than raw HP. This is primarily due to the fact that shields and armor regen at an absolute rate, meaing a set amount of HP per second. However since hardeners block incoming damage, this means that the effective rep rate is higher. Imagine this scenario. Vehicle 1 has 100 base HP and adds 100 HP with a plate, but has no resists for a total of 200eHP. It repairs at 10HP/s Vehicle 2 has 100 base HP and has a 50% hardener, but with no extender for a total of 200eHP. It also repairs at 10HP/s AV Swarmer hits each vehicle with a weapon that deals 100 damage. Vehicle 1 resists no damage, loses 100HP. It will take 10 seconds to repair all the damage. Vehicle 2 resists 50% of the damage, loses 50HP. It will take 5 seconds to repair all the damage. Same eHP. Same Regen rate. Very different recovery times. This is the primary reason why shield vehicles perform so well currently. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:05:00 - [24] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: True Adamance wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: I suggest a 5/2 layout, 3500 shield/1250 armour, along with increased CPU and pg by about 20% to account for the extra slots, should cost about 450-600k isk for the hull. Maybe decreased speed but I don't see why it needs any drawbacks, seeing as how when an infantry goes from basic to assault they only get benefits. Will need to cost more. The Hull itself could cost around 757,000 ISK (do you think this number is fair) In regards to having and additional two slots and 500 more modifiable EHP your suggestion would borderline make the Sagaris OP as hell. Lol I haven't dealt with stats in a while true, pardon me for my rustiness. Heck, why don't we make the hulls cost 1.2m again that would be fun XD Sorry I'm not trying to be antagonistic....just passionate about the subject. Personally I wouldn't mind the high costs. Would give infantry one less reason to whine. Also with the alterations I believe it will also bring Gunnlogi back into line vs Madrugars as currently their is no competition. IMO, gunnlogi should stay where they're at while removing the ability to dual tank. That's the biggest problem is when I see 3000 armour 4000 shield gunnies on the field. Maddies should rule in ehp, like 6000 ish armour, along with a choice between either a active or passive rep. Maybe 75 hp/s for a complex passive and 450 hp/s for 15 seconds on a complex active rep. Please tell me how bad my suggestions are. My/ Pokey's suggestions follow a rather simple rebalance. Gunnlogi lose 300 armour but gain 350 Shields Shields - 3000 Armour- 1200 Madrugar lose 200 Shields and between 375 and 600 armour (bear with me a moment) Shields- 1000 Armour -3400 -3625 Power lies in the modules. Gunlogi can now attain 5650 Shields ( 7345 EHP + 1200 armour and passive reps) and have their fair armour tank. Madrugar with 180mm plating (part of the suggestions) can have 6375 Armour ( 7995 EHP + 1000 Shields, no passive reps) If we went back to 2/4 and 4/2 tanks we could do some very nice things especially if fitting is tight and we have lots more varied and valuable utility mods for our lows and highs. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2309	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:16:00 - [25] - Quote Seriously? We're not asking for racial parity in vehicles before we get old stuff back? Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14237	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:25:00 - [26] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seriously? We're not asking for racial parity in vehicles before we get old stuff back? It's much better to do what we can now than ask for something that probably won't ever come. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15630	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:25:00 - [27] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seriously? We're not asking for racial parity in vehicles before we get old stuff back? Give up mate. I have, lets work on actually balancing the modules and fleshing out how vehicles should work before we badger Rattati for place holders. Plus this is a Holiday Hotfix. It's unlikely he will even be able to get most of it done.....but if we submit a strong case for rebalances he may well take it into a proper update. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2690	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:34:00 - [28] - Quote Just as a point, last we heard from Rattati was that the Gunnlogi was underperforming compared to the Madrugar. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2309	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:37:00 - [29] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seriously? We're not asking for racial parity in vehicles before we get old stuff back? Give up mate. I have, lets work on actually balancing the modules and fleshing out how vehicles should work before we badger Rattati for place holders. Plus this is a Holiday Hotfix. It's unlikely he will even be able to get most of it done.....but if we submit a strong case for rebalances he may well take it into a proper update. I don't think it would be that hard to give us some reskins with tweaked stats as our racial parity. It isn't like we're asking for new models, reskins are all that the Sagris/Surya are anyway so why give us old broken instead of giving us new toys? Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15633	Posted - 2014.12.10 00:48:00 - [30] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: True Adamance wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Seriously? We're not asking for racial parity in vehicles before we get old stuff back? Give up mate. I have, lets work on actually balancing the modules and fleshing out how vehicles should work before we badger Rattati for place holders. Plus this is a Holiday Hotfix. It's unlikely he will even be able to get most of it done.....but if we submit a strong case for rebalances he may well take it into a proper update. I don't think it would be that hard to give us some reskins with tweaked stats as our racial parity. It isn't like we're asking for new models, reskins are all that the Sagris/Surya are anyway so why give us old broken instead of giving us new toys? Because the Surya and Sagaris benefit tank pilots more than any racial variants would at this current time. They require the bland and lacking vehicle skills tree to be addressed and altered and provide tank operators with an "End game unit" to put SP into and work towards indicating who is dedicated to their role and offering them another step up from the standard hull. Currently all I have to do to operate tanks is Vehicle Command V, HAV Command I This would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better if it required - Vehicle Command V - Racial HAV Operation V - Racial Marauder Operation V and encouraged - X Racial Tank Skills to V - Turrets V - Core Tank Skills V and rewarded dedicated tankers for it by offering them a machine they can customise deeply to their tastes and have pride in, and spend ISK on. I could care less about Sica and Soma unless I'm up against an organised team and want something cheap to ruin their ISK efficiency with, Gunnlogi and Madrugar are also lacking and just the run of the mill crap you see every day and only set me back 700,000 ISK a pop...... But a Surya [Sagaris} that costs 1.5-2 Million ISK a pop, allows me to invest all of my skills, fitting, etc into is something I would care about...... I wouldn't want to lose it, I'd protect it, I'd only get it out when I needed it, I could escalate depending on what my opponents brought to the fight, etc. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.



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