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Why is Project Legion not appearing at Fanfest 2014?

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Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1841	Posted - 2014.12.07 15:33:00 - [1] - Quote Legion not appearing at Fanfest is obviously troubling. Why would CCP Shanghai not present their top priority game at CCP's biggest public event of the year by far? Logically we can only draw several conclusions, the correct one being known probably only to CCP (and possibly the CPM but not a guarantee.) Project Legion is not in a state to be shown to the public. Though this would be confusing given their showing of gameplay last year, it must be considered that Legion is undergoing heavy development and is unpresentable, be it from incompetence or an unknown external factor. From this we can infer that they may show off upcoming features of Dust 514, but those will no doubt be limited in scale and will be given to a game already dying through console age and fan faith alike. Arguably the most optimistic theory would be that Legion has either been renamed, or could not fit into the time schedule for unknown reasons. This would imply that something is coming in regards to EVE:Online, EVE:Valkyrie, or an unknown third product that somehow usurps Project Legion and doesn't allow time for it at Fanfest. Given the unlikely nature of that, it's probable that Project Legion has been renamed, as is regular with countless other projects that move on to become concrete games. (Project Beast -> Bloodborne, Project Ogre -> MGSV, Project Icarus -> Bioshock Infinite) This change in name would be inherently optimistic, in that CCP is confident enough in their product to give it a retail name, effectively bringing the concept into fruition. CCP Shanghai or CCP Iceland have made the decision to withhold Project Legion from Fanfest in order to have a reveal at a larger, more mainstream convention, the obvious candidate being E3. This would imply that they are confident in their product to the extent of presenting it to the general population at a large gaming convention, even if it meant they would withhold the information from loyal fans, instead opting for a larger reveal. If true, this would most likely warrant the name changing of Project Legion, giving it a final retail name, again in line with the previous piece of conjecture. The final, and more nihilistic conclusion to come to would be that development of Legion has either halted, or is being transitioned to a new product entirely. Considering the ambiguous nature of Project Legion, and our unknowingness of whether it's received the greenlight or not, we have to assume that this is a possibility. Whether or not this would mean the introduction of a new game, or just the cancellation of all FPS development, would remain unknown. However it is to be assumed that this would be the downfall of CCP Shanghai as a studio, unless they could be repurposed to develop an existing title. Obviously, the removal of Project Legion from CCP's development plans spells the end of the future of Dust, as well as the time and money invested by the fanbase. While such an act would be deplorable in the eyes of the Dust community, the small size of the group leads the cynic in me to believe that our complaints would go unheard, as the benefits of a new game entirely would most likely outweigh the downsides of an upset yet minuscule fanbase. While the exact nature of Project Legion's absence from Fanfest 2014 may remain unknown to us, this list is just about every logical conclusion you could come to on the matter. Even in the most optimistic of these scenarios, it's disappointing to learn of the continued silence and ambiguity surrounding the project's development. Unfortunately as a console gamer, theres also not much in the way of hope to be drawn from this. While it's certainly possible that a PS4 build could be unveiled in the future, CCP's silence on the topic of ports allows us only to assume that they wish to utilize PC exclusivity as a means of security. I only ask that the console gamers of the Dust community (myself included) continue to pressure CCP for a PS4 build, so that CCP may realize the folly of leaving behind a large percentage of their extremely dedicated and faithful fanbase. On an unrelated note, if you have formulated a theory or though process behind Legion's absence that I failed to acknowledge, feel free critique below. The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1033	Posted - 2014.12.07 17:21:00 - [2] - Quote Ya it's disappointing but like others have said they might just announce things for Legion before and after Fanfest. They don't need fanfest to announce something for Legion although it's where we would expect to hear something about Legion since it's been over 6 months since we've heard anything about Legion. Should Legion be on the ps4?
God Hates Lags Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1440	Posted - 2014.12.07 17:26:00 - [3] - Quote There are a lot of other potential reasons why Legion isn't being shown at fanfest. The one that CCP has stated and the CPM has confirmed on these forums is that CCP's biggest title, Valkryie, is going be the star of fanfest 2015. It will be the rift's most talked about game and has the potential to catapult CCP from obscure indie development corp to mainstream AAA studio which would be good not only for Dust and Legion, but for Eve as well. Even Eve will take a backseat to Valkryie come fanfest. Secondly, while Dust's future is still highly uncertain, just look around you and see that there are three new planned updates for it. Do you really think that's just Rattati programming those three updates solo? Dust is finally profitable now thanks to Respec and APEX suit $$ and you're seeing CCP's priorities shift from a game that could make money a year or two down the road to one that is making money now. Thirdly, I think you gravely underestimate the time it will take to develop Legion. If CCP wants to release a title that isn't half assed this time they will need to take at least two years to develop it, and it will not be conducive to that strategy to show a half-assed version of the game to fans. Fourthly, remember the fiasco last time and realize that CCP really doesn't want to have that happen again. If they talk up all the things planned for Legion without mentioning Dust, Dust players will feel shafted. If they talk about their roadmap for Dust, PC players will ask "why are you even still developing a dead game?" and some will doubt that Legion is even coming. It's a no win scenario that will just pit two crowds against each other. Better to stay quiet until there's something major to report. Rail Rifle and Bolt Pistol Champion Fatal Absolution Director
Bat Shard0 Stardust Incorporation 65	Posted - 2014.12.07 18:05:00 - [4] - Quote All we need is some info, a little update how far they are, nothing more http://dust514news.blogspot.com/
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1842	Posted - 2014.12.07 18:17:00 - [5] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: There are a lot of other potential reasons why Legion isn't being shown at fanfest. The one that CCP has stated and the CPM has confirmed on these forums is that CCP's biggest title, Valkryie, is going be the star of fanfest 2015. It will be the rift's most talked about game and has the potential to catapult CCP from obscure indie development corp to mainstream AAA studio which would be good not only for Dust and Legion, but for Eve as well. Even Eve will take a backseat to Valkryie come fanfest. Secondly, while Dust's future is still highly uncertain, just look around you and see that there are three new planned updates for it. Do you really think that's just Rattati programming those three updates solo? Dust is finally profitable now thanks to Respec and APEX suit $$ and you're seeing CCP's priorities shift from a game that could make money a year or two down the road to one that is making money now. Thirdly, I think you gravely underestimate the time it will take to develop Legion. If CCP wants to release a title that isn't half assed this time they will need to take at least two years to develop it, and it will not be conducive to that strategy to show a half-assed version of the game to fans. Fourthly, remember the fiasco last time and realize that CCP really doesn't want to have that happen again. If they talk up all the things planned for Legion without mentioning Dust, Dust players will feel shafted. If they talk about their roadmap for Dust, PC players will ask "why are you even still developing a dead game?" and some will doubt that Legion is even coming. It's a no win scenario that will just pit two crowds against each other. Better to stay quiet until there's something major to report. As I said, it's likely that Legion is being booted off of Fanfest in other to showcase something else (in your example EVE Valkyrie.) This in conjunction with lack or progress or anything to show would explain it's absence. Still, a simple speech or two on it's progress feels needed after months of silence. The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)
God Hates Lags Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1442	Posted - 2014.12.07 19:35:00 - [6] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: There are a lot of other potential reasons why Legion isn't being shown at fanfest. The one that CCP has stated and the CPM has confirmed on these forums is that CCP's biggest title, Valkryie, is going be the star of fanfest 2015. It will be the rift's most talked about game and has the potential to catapult CCP from obscure indie development corp to mainstream AAA studio which would be good not only for Dust and Legion, but for Eve as well. Even Eve will take a backseat to Valkryie come fanfest. Secondly, while Dust's future is still highly uncertain, just look around you and see that there are three new planned updates for it. Do you really think that's just Rattati programming those three updates solo? Dust is finally profitable now thanks to Respec and APEX suit $$ and you're seeing CCP's priorities shift from a game that could make money a year or two down the road to one that is making money now. Thirdly, I think you gravely underestimate the time it will take to develop Legion. If CCP wants to release a title that isn't half assed this time they will need to take at least two years to develop it, and it will not be conducive to that strategy to show a half-assed version of the game to fans. Fourthly, remember the fiasco last time and realize that CCP really doesn't want to have that happen again. If they talk up all the things planned for Legion without mentioning Dust, Dust players will feel shafted. If they talk about their roadmap for Dust, PC players will ask "why are you even still developing a dead game?" and some will doubt that Legion is even coming. It's a no win scenario that will just pit two crowds against each other. Better to stay quiet until there's something major to report. As I said, it's likely that Legion is being booted off of Fanfest in other to showcase something else (in your example EVE Valkyrie.) This in conjunction with lack or progress or anything to show would explain it's absence. Still, an insight into it's progress feels needed after months of silence. Odds are we would have just gotten a simple tech demo to showcase the game running and new art assets. Still, we could atleast get some info on Dust updates and Legion alike, so we know that the game replacing Dust is still making progress (even if console players are screwed anyway.) Another option occurs to me. It could be that Legion is at a crossroads. The APEX suits and Respec were a test to see if Dust could make money on consoles. CPM's in this forum have stated that Rouge was initially opposed to the conception of Legion on PC, but the orders came from on high because Dust wasn't making money. Maybe now that Dust is making money Rouge gets his way now and continues working on Dust instead of Legion. Rail Rifle and Bolt Pistol Champion Fatal Absolution Director
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1844	Posted - 2014.12.07 22:07:00 - [7] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: Another option occurs to me. It could be that Legion is at a crossroads. The APEX suits and Respec were a test to see if Dust could make money on consoles. CPM's in this forum have stated that Rouge was initially opposed to the conception of Legion on PC, but the orders came from on high because Dust wasn't making money. Maybe now that Dust is making money Rouge gets his way now and continues working on Dust instead of Legion. This sounds like it would screw over a lot of players who were anticipating the game on PC, some of which had already built PC's around playing Legion. Then again, a year ago I would've wholeheartedly expected a jump to PS4 in the foreseeable future, so it's not as if people have been excluded by CCP in the past. Although personally, anyone who buys a new platform entirely for Dust 514 either has ample money or questionable judgement. Never buy a console for one game......unless it's Metroid Prime 4. The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)
God Hates Lags Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1442	Posted - 2014.12.08 01:49:00 - [8] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: Another option occurs to me. It could be that Legion is at a crossroads. The APEX suits and Respec were a test to see if Dust could make money on consoles. CPM's in this forum have stated that Rouge was initially opposed to the conception of Legion on PC, but the orders came from on high because Dust wasn't making money. Maybe now that Dust is making money Rouge gets his way now and continues working on Dust instead of Legion. This sounds like it would screw over a lot of players who were anticipating the game on PC, some of which had already built PC's around playing Legion. Hence why no fanfest announcement. Rail Rifle and Bolt Pistol Champion Fatal Absolution Director
Saivix Avar Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.12.08 18:21:00 - [9] - Quote At one time I hated the very idea that they would end Dust 514 on ps3 and begin Legion for the pc. I hated legion when they announced it. But once my ps3 broke I changed my tune rather quickly. I like legion now and if they can connect next gen consoles to the pc variants then more console gamers might be satisfied (though that is very unlikely). I hope that they will offer a wider variety of combat situations and objectives in Legion if that is it's name or if it's been green lit. CCP don't screw this up. Fear is plentiful for kings. I am that fear. Contact me EVE side if you need me, my name is Saivix Avaris
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4992	Posted - 2014.12.08 19:42:00 - [10] - Quote Hynox, I'd like to offer you the official CPM1 complimentary collectible tin foil roll. Enjoy. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1866	Posted - 2014.12.08 21:53:00 - [11] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Hynox, I'd like to offer you the official CPM1 complimentary limited edition collectible tin foil roll. Enjoy. I'd like to thank the academy. The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)
DaReaperPW Net 7 47	Posted - 2014.12.08 22:40:00 - [12] - Quote I'm inclined to believe its a few things: 1) The Rouge wedding was pulled off horribly. They could fo easily done that whole thing a lot better. But they didn't. So instead of shooting themselves in the foot, better to keep your mouth shut 2) Fan fest i think will definitely be valk heavy. And also have more discussion of the New Eden Project. Does this mean CCP may not have done an about face on dust? Idk. But my guess is either we will have a new 4th project, or they just don't want to shoot themselves in the foot, and don;t have any huge progress to announce yet. 3) Dust is making money. If dust is making money, why would you risk prematurely killing a cash cow for something thats not yet ready. So again, remain quite. With this said, there is zero reason why ccp might not change plans for 'no dust.legion talk at fan fest' it could be very simple to have a round table and have idea go out that way, or even if say legion was greenlited have someone get on stage during ccp presents and make a small announcement. At this stage we really just don;t know. But i think its more they don; want to shoot dust if its found its footing. But dust is dead. Its life cycle will end, but why end it before you have whatever is going to replace it in place.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2424	Posted - 2015.01.09 05:52:00 - [13] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: Hynox Xitio wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: There are a lot of other potential reasons why Legion isn't being shown at fanfest. The one that CCP has stated and the CPM has confirmed on these forums is that CCP's biggest title, Valkryie, is going be the star of fanfest 2015. It will be the rift's most talked about game and has the potential to catapult CCP from obscure indie development corp to mainstream AAA studio which would be good not only for Dust and Legion, but for Eve as well. Even Eve will take a backseat to Valkryie come fanfest. Secondly, while Dust's future is still highly uncertain, just look around you and see that there are three new planned updates for it. Do you really think that's just Rattati programming those three updates solo? Dust is finally profitable now thanks to Respec and APEX suit $$ and you're seeing CCP's priorities shift from a game that could make money a year or two down the road to one that is making money now. Thirdly, I think you gravely underestimate the time it will take to develop Legion. If CCP wants to release a title that isn't half assed this time they will need to take at least two years to develop it, and it will not be conducive to that strategy to show a half-assed version of the game to fans. Fourthly, remember the fiasco last time and realize that CCP really doesn't want to have that happen again. If they talk up all the things planned for Legion without mentioning Dust, Dust players will feel shafted. If they talk about their roadmap for Dust, PC players will ask "why are you even still developing a dead game?" and some will doubt that Legion is even coming. It's a no win scenario that will just pit two crowds against each other. Better to stay quiet until there's something major to report. As I said, it's likely that Legion is being booted off of Fanfest in other to showcase something else (in your example EVE Valkyrie.) This in conjunction with lack or progress or anything to show would explain it's absence. Still, an insight into it's progress feels needed after months of silence. Odds are we would have just gotten a simple tech demo to showcase the game running and new art assets. Still, we could atleast get some info on Dust updates and Legion alike, so we know that the game replacing Dust is still making progress (even if console players are screwed anyway.) Another option occurs to me. It could be that Legion is at a crossroads. The APEX suits and Respec were a test to see if Dust could make money on consoles. CPM's in this forum have stated that Rouge was initially opposed to the conception of Legion on PC, but the orders came from on high because Dust wasn't making money. Maybe now that Dust is making money Rouge gets his way now and continues working on Dust instead of Legion. What makes you think Dust is making money for CCP? Second, assuming that Legion won't be shown, there's only one reason for that and it's Eve Valkrie, CCP's last chance at surviving the next two years intact. I think CCP just hasn't put money into Legion because they burnt so much on Dust and WOD. They can't afford another failure while Eve itself languishes in peril.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3440	Posted - 2015.01.09 08:08:00 - [14] - Quote Because: 1. Can't Code Properly. 2. Can't Communicate Properly. 3. CCP EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
DAMIOS82 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 151	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:02:00 - [15] - Quote I'm sure they will say something about it. Valkyrie might be the main game that they are showing, but there is more then one day to show it all. Not to mention that allthough CCP showed us last time some footage, to port over all the maps, etc over to PC is quite the task. That's just the foundation, then they still need to add the proper vehicles and stuff that's missing, just for the basegame. Not to mention make it all look new enough to attract players. So when they release the game, you still only have a beta version comparable to Dust514, only a bit different. I don't think it's coming out for a while yet, but i do think the longer CCP takes to release a beta version of legion, the more players decides to move on. Dust514 is simply still just here to hold on to whatever playerbase still remains and legion is the candy that needs to come to attract the rest.
lateriss ObscuriLateris 22	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:47:00 - [16] - Quote Because it is in the stage that is called "prototype"? GëíGïüGëí
KILL3R H3LLH0UND Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance 178	Posted - 2015.01.14 03:13:00 - [17] - Quote /tinfoil hat Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again. I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1100	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:52:00 - [18] - Quote lateriss wrote: Because it is in the stage that is called "prototype"? Wouldn't be surprised if it's in the same stage WOD was in. Should Legion be on the ps4?
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 123	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:33:00 - [19] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: ...Stuff... Legion not appearing at Fanfest is obviously troubling. No, its obviously reassuring, as legion appeared to be the final nail in the coffin for dust514. Why would CCP Shanghai not present their top priority game at CCP's biggest public event of the year by far? they will of course be presenting their top priority game(EVE Online) at fanfest, as they do every year. Legion was a prototype intended to determine how it would fare, and the response was overwhelming between EVE players unsubscribing, Dust players biomasing, and some even throwing their ps3 away in response. * Project Legion is not in a state to be shown to the public. Of course it isn't. If CCP learned anything last year it was that showing legion to a throng of hungry players starving from the developmental drought dust was experiencing was a very very bad idea. Legion was never ready to be shown to the public, and this public in particular foaming at the mouth from unfulfilled promises was in no shape to be shown what amounted to a massive waste of our investment in dust. Keep in mind some of us do pay for this game and were of course upset to see that our investment was being used on something other than what we invested in. Though this would be confusing given their showing of gameplay this year they didnt show gameplay last year, they showed the dust514 framework rigged up to run well enough to demo a couple features that were intended for this prototype if and only if it was greenlit. Giving legion a greenlight after half of us quit and the other half threatened to quit if this foolishness didnt stop would obviously be career suicide. From this we can infer that they may show off upcoming features of Dust 514, but those will no doubt be limited in scale and will be given to a game already dying through console age and fan faith alike. from this i can infer that you havent been playing dust and havent seen that the players are beginning to have faith in the 10-year game we were advertised * Arguably the most optimistic theory would be that Legion has either been renamed, or could not fit into the time schedule for unknown reasons. sure ill argue this. Legion is not a game. it was never a game. the most optimistic theory would be that ccp has been so hush hush about legion because they listened to their fans&customers and scrapped it before more of my and other players' money was wasted on it. This would imply that something is coming in regards to EVE:Online, EVE:Valkyrie, or an unknown third product that somehow usurps Project Legion there *ARE* 3 products in the EVE Online series: EVE Online, EVE: Dust 514, and EVE: Valkyrie. the third product youre forgetting is called EVE: Dust 514 * CCP Shanghai or CCP Iceland have made the decision to withhold Project Legion from Fanfest in order to have a reveal at a larger, more mainstream convention, the obvious candidate being E3. the obvious candidate being never. * The final, and more nihilistic conclusion to come to would be that development of Legion has either halted, or is being transitioned to a new product entirely. i would say this is the most optimistic conclusion you've presented, and would hope that the product in question is Dust 514 and not some new pet project for our lovable devs to waste my money on. we have to assume that this is a possibility. we should hope that this is the reality However it is to be assumed that this would be the downfall of CCP Shanghai as a studio, unless they could be repurposed to develop an existing title. i'm going to go out on a limb and say that instead of the downfall of CCP Shanghai, it would be a boon to them. assuming the team that did the work on the legion prototype has gotten back to work on Dust 514, that is. Obviously, the removal of Project Legion from CCP's development plans spells the end of the future of Dust, as well as the time and money invested by the fanbase. this is not obvious at all. in fact, it seems counter-intuitive to me considering that since the devs have stopped talking about legion, theyve stepped up Dust development to a release rate more in-line with EVE Online releases and have even put out an entirely new expansion. While such an act would be deplorable in the eyes of the Dust community, nah it seems to be working well so far... the small size of the group leads the cynic in me to believe that our complaints would go unheard, as the benefits of a new game entirely would most likely outweigh the downsides of an upset yet minuscule fanbase. big enough to get them developing dust again. Unfortunately as a console gamer, theres also not much in the way of hope to be drawn from this. as a console gamer, you should be happy that the ps3 flavor of EVE is thriving instead of being discarded. While it's certainly possible that a PS4 build could be unveiled in the future, EVE: Valkyrie has already been unveiled as the ps4 flavor of EVE I only ask that the console gamers of the Dust community (myself included) continue to pressure CCP for a PS4 build, so that CCP may realize the folly of leaving behind a large percentage of their extremely dedicated and faithful fanbase. I hope that they dont leave those of us behind that have gotten tired of sonys **** and wont be buying another PSWhatever On an unrelated note, if you have formulated a theory or thought process behind Legion's absence that I failed to acknowledge, feel free critique below. done. TL;DR Nah. Go ahead and read it Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 123	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:50:00 - [20] - Quote DAMIOS82 wrote: I'm sure they will say something about it. Valkyrie might be the main game that they are showing, but there is more then one day to show it all. Not to mention that allthough CCP showed us last time some footage, to port over all the maps, etc over to PC is quite the task. That's just the foundation, then they still need to add the proper vehicles and stuff that's missing, just for the basegame. Not to mention make it all look new enough to attract players. So when they release the game, you still only have a beta version comparable to Dust514, only a bit different. I don't think it's coming out for a while yet, but i do think the longer CCP takes to release a beta version of legion, the more players decides to move on. Dust514 is simply still just here to hold on to whatever playerbase still remains and legion is the candy that needs to come to attract the rest. you've kind of got the development process wrong. moving assets from one game to another is fairly easy. the hard part is moving code written for a proprietary processor that was intentionally designed to be ridiculously hard to program for (to keep young/indie/not rich/not japanese people from developing for it) over to be run on a simple, standardized x86_64 platform. A more curious point, and one i really want you to ponder for me, is why would CCP go to all the trouble of getting their dev team as trained and familiarized as they have since the legion teaser with developing for the CELL BE processor, shell out money to Sony for several client side updates, and throw all of that post-legion investment away by scrapping their actual, stable, released product thats actually making real money(as indicated by the resumed development of dust) to spend years rebuilding it for PC and losing thousands if not millions of dollars in the process? instead of treating dust like its dead and legion is the next big thing, you should try to remember that dust development is steadily continuing and legion has garnered the slient treatment. forget about legion and join the push to see dust become the game we were all promised. Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face

Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 123	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:59:00 - [21] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: There are a lot of other potential reasons why Legion isn't being shown at fanfest. The one that CCP has stated and the CPM has confirmed on these forums is that CCP's biggest title, Valkryie, is going be the star of fanfest 2015. It will be the rift's most talked about game and has the potential to catapult CCP from obscure indie development corp to mainstream AAA studio which would be good not only for Dust and Legion, but for Eve as well. Even Eve will take a backseat to Valkryie come fanfest. Secondly, while Dust's future is still highly uncertain, just look around you and see that there are three new planned updates for it. Do you really think that's just Rattati programming those three updates solo? Dust is finally profitable now thanks to Respec and APEX suit $$ and you're seeing CCP's priorities shift from a game that could make money a year or two down the road to one that is making money now. Thirdly, I think you gravely underestimate the time it will take to develop Legion. If CCP wants to release a title that isn't half assed this time they will need to take at least two years to develop it, and it will not be conducive to that strategy to show a half-assed version of the game to fans. Fourthly, remember the fiasco last time and realize that CCP really doesn't want to have that happen again. If they talk up all the things planned for Legion without mentioning Dust, Dust players will feel shafted. If they talk about their roadmap for Dust, PC players will ask "why are you even still developing a dead game?" and some will doubt that Legion is even coming. It's a no win scenario that will just pit two crowds against each other. Better to stay quiet until there's something major to report. CCP is already a AAA game developer with a long-running (over a decade long) flagship franchise, which is EVE Online Yes. This exactly. Moar of this. i think you're gravely underestimating the dev time required to make legion a game as well. no offense, but i'm pretty sure porting something as massive as dust and completely rewriting it for pc will take much longer than you expect(a year or two) true, and even better to just put legion in the "maybe some other time" bin and continue to focus their efforts to keep dust growing and viable Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 123	Posted - 2015.03.03 04:22:00 - [22] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: Another option occurs to me. It could be that Legion is at a crossroads. The APEX suits and Respec were a test to see if Dust could make money on consoles. CPM's in this forum have stated that Rouge was initially opposed to the conception of Legion on PC, but the orders came from on high because Dust wasn't making money. Maybe now that Dust is making money Rouge gets his way now and continues working on Dust instead of Legion. This sounds like it would screw over a lot of players who were anticipating the game on PC, some of which had already built PC's around playing Legion. Then again, a year ago I would've wholeheartedly expected a jump to PS4 in the foreseeable future, so it's not as if people have been excluded by CCP in the past. Although personally, anyone who buys a new platform entirely for Dust 514 either has ample money or questionable judgement. Never buy a console for one game......unless it's Metroid Prime 4. Dude they had a ps3 bundle specifically for dust 514. They were specifically trying to get ppl to buy a ps3 for dust. It even supposedly came with a gold colored saga, not that all of those codes necessarily worked I'm glaring at you CCP! How many people bought a n64 for ocarina of time? How many people bought a SNES for street fighter 2? How many people bought a genesis for sonic the hedgehog? You don't buy a system to only play one game, but there's always that one game that enticed you to actually drop the dollars for it. Dust promised to be a massive endeavor and a long-term game on console the likes of which had never been seen. It still can be, you know. you think the ps3 is tapped in terms of resources? Console gamers have no attention span. You have to look at each game in the eve series as a long term investment or it will never be able to mature properly. Dust wontbdie when the devs give up, it will die when we give up on the devs Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 123	Posted - 2015.03.03 05:00:00 - [23] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Because: 1. Can't Code Properly. 2. Can't Communicate Properly. 3. CCP 1. Can't code properly? They brought a PC dev team into the world of CELL programming with little to know idea what hell it is to learn to develop for the ps3. They've come farther in a shorter time than any comparably sized dev team could have imagined all while undertaking a programming feat that nobody else has successfully managed. ever. And you scoff at their socalled inability to program!? Good sir, i scoff right back at you. 2. Well, they're guilty of that. Thankfully they put a new head of strategy and planning in place who has been working hard to rectify that. 3. Lol. No srsly lol. This made me laugh out loud. An honest thumbs up to you for that PS: hynox, I'm haunting your thread Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3614	Posted - 2015.03.03 09:11:00 - [24] - Quote .... because this year they want focuse on valkary which is due out the moment VR headsets are. So you know throw marketing at GAME ABOUT TO COME OUT. Rather than game still in pre alpha. It's not really that hard guys you need accept your not the favourite child anymore you have better looking funner younger slibling everyone faws over. Are job is to make sure mum and dad don't screw her up as well. You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2259	Posted - 2015.03.03 18:40:00 - [25] - Quote What has been announced for Legion so far is open world scavenging. That sounds fun, but it isn't enough for a compelling game. What they need is what Dust was supposed to have, a meaningful outcome for battles which affects a shared world. That means somehow being linked to the sovereignty game in Eve. Unfortunately the mechanics in Eve for that haven't been updated in a very long time and are so ball-achingly painful to participate in that it started creating the blue donut. Because of this they've been spending the last year or two trying to figure out how to make it fun again. Fortunately, today they announced how the new system will work: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/politics-by-other-means/ I think this is why there's been so little news about Legion. The game appears to be function, but is lacking gameplay...which they couldn't design until the Eve team figured out what their design was. From the quick skim I've done of this blog there seems to be a lot of room for Legion / Valkyrie to get involved. The old system was a binary state, either you won the fights and kept control of the system or you didn't and lost everything. The new system gives different levels of defensive bonuses with the possibility of other kinds of bonuses linked to other structures. This means there will be mechanics connected to the sov game that other games can help or hurt without creating a sudden drastic change in the other game that seems completely arbitrary and makes no sense. Some ideas: 1) Disabling a station service requires a ship use an entosis link and be vulnerable for up to 40 minutes. Why not also be able to fire a boarding pod at that module on the station so that troops can sabotage it? Station owners could defend by buying stockpiles of merc clones, which they could buy from corps that own clone producing facilities like in PC. When a boarding pod is launched it gives a window where mercs who are marked as friendlies can join in on the battle, or they could open it up to randoms to defend. 2) Battles on the other sov structures to temporarily decrease their defensive bonus level. 3) Ground based facilities that give defensive and other bonuses to space for controlling them. Like fighter bases or listening posts. A non-defensive structure idea could be an ore processing platform, which increases the yield miners get from the asteroids in space. This speeds up mining so they make more money, but also helps them to increase their industrial index and reach a higher level of defensive bonus more quickly. They tried to do this with PC, but there just weren't enough Eve mechanics for Dust to influence that would actually be something interesting that people cared about. With the new system, that is no longer the case. So they're not showing us what they've got planned at fanfest because they haven't known enough to be able to plan yet. Now they can plan, it's just too late for it to be ready for fanfest.
ZDub 303 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 3387	Posted - 2015.03.03 20:01:00 - [26] - Quote I think there is still a big push for EVE: Universe which would be a unified gaming platform that you can play all three titles from directly, similar to Battle.net. I don't quite believe that Legion is cancelled yet, if it was I think they would announce that pretty quickly as it would probably cause a lot of people to come back to Dust. However, my suggestion would be to play Planetside 2, its pretty much the realization of the vision that CCP had for Dust but could never create. I just started playing about 3-4 weeks ago and I really wish I had started playing sooner, its a far far superior experience.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 178	Posted - 2015.03.03 23:23:00 - [27] - Quote They aren't talking about Legion because there isn't anything to talk about. Dust and Legion team is small so there wouldn't be any news about the game for a bit . There is a chance that they may just cancel the project if they hadn't already sometime in the future, especially if CCP doesn't do well financially again. A lot of people left, so if CCP isn't serious with Legion then they will cancel it and focus exclusively on Eve online and Valkyrie, probably shifting some devs to those games. Saying that Valkyrie is the focus in fanfest seems to be an excuse because they can talk about legion/dust at the CCP Presents keynotes or mention them at another keynote that's not exclusive Eve or Valkyrie. If the roundtables has barely Dust/Legion content and don't say much about them in the roundtables then that means those games isn't being committed to. There's a Dust roundtable, but it depends on the content and if there are others.
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 128	Posted - 2015.03.04 08:34:00 - [28] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: What has been announced for Legion so far is open world scavenging. That sounds fun, but it isn't enough for a compelling game. What they need is what Dust was supposed to have, a meaningful outcome for battles which affects a shared world. That means somehow being linked to the sovereignty game in Eve. Unfortunately the mechanics in Eve for that haven't been updated in a very long time and are so ball-achingly painful to participate in that it started creating the blue donut. Because of this they've been spending the last year or two trying to figure out how to make it fun again. Fortunately, today they announced how the new system will work: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/politics-by-other-means/ I think this is why there's been so little news about Legion. The game appears to be function, but is lacking gameplay...which they couldn't design until the Eve team figured out what their design was. From the quick skim I've done of this blog there seems to be a lot of room for Legion / Valkyrie to get involved. The old system was a binary state, either you won the fights and kept control of the system or you didn't and lost everything. The new system gives different levels of defensive bonuses with the possibility of other kinds of bonuses linked to other structures. This means there will be mechanics connected to the sov game that other games can help or hurt without creating a sudden drastic change in the other game that seems completely arbitrary and makes no sense. Some ideas: 1) Disabling a station service requires a ship use an entosis link and be vulnerable for up to 40 minutes. Why not also be able to fire a boarding pod at that module on the station so that troops can sabotage it? Station owners could defend by buying stockpiles of merc clones, which they could buy from corps that own clone producing facilities like in PC. When a boarding pod is launched it gives a window where mercs who are marked as friendlies can join in on the battle, or they could open it up to randoms to defend. 2) Battles on the other sov structures to temporarily decrease their defensive bonus level. 3) Ground based facilities that give defensive and other bonuses to space for controlling them. Like fighter bases or listening posts. A non-defensive structure idea could be an ore processing platform, which increases the yield miners get from the asteroids in space. This speeds up mining so they make more money, but also helps them to increase their industrial index and reach a higher level of defensive bonus more quickly. They tried to do this with PC, but there just weren't enough Eve mechanics for Dust to influence that would actually be something interesting that people cared about. With the new system, that is no longer the case. So they're not showing us what they've got planned at fanfest because they haven't known enough to be able to plan yet. Now they can plan, it's just too late for it to be ready for fanfest. Please tell me why any of this can't be done in dust? Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 128	Posted - 2015.03.04 08:39:00 - [29] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I think there is still a big push for EVE: Universe which would be a unified gaming platform that you can play all three titles from directly, similar to Battle.net. I don't quite believe that Legion is cancelled yet, if it was I think they would announce that pretty quickly as it would probably cause a lot of people to come back to Dust. However, my suggestion would be to play Planetside 2, its pretty much the realization of the vision that CCP had for Dust but could never create. I just started playing about 3-4 weeks ago and I really wish I had started playing sooner, its a far far superior experience. No. When CCP does something bad, people leave. When CCP announces that theyre going to undo that mistake, the people that didnt leave start leaving. Unfortunately everything CCP does is wrong, even when its the right thing. Dust development has begun again and look how many people hate everything they add/fix Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3616	Posted - 2015.03.04 09:01:00 - [30] - Quote You can please some people all the time You can please all people some of the time You can't please everyone all the time. Ccp have been at this for a while and eve is still going strong and they are safe money wise. The job cuts where a management clean out in the end and end of project layoffs. I will look to legion after I finished blowing up stuff in Valk. Also would a VR EvE work imagen 1000 man fleet battles like that =ƒÿå You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance

Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2259	Posted - 2015.03.04 14:36:00 - [31] - Quote Quote: Please tell me why any of this can't be done in dust? Because the PS3 didn't work for them as a platform. Two problems. Firstly the very obvious issue of hardware limitations. Legion runs the same engine as Dust. They've spent so much time customizing UE3 that it makes more sense for them to keep using it than switching to UE4 and recreating their customization. Compare the legion vid to the dust vid. Look at how smoothly it runs while looking far, far better. Look at how poorly dust runs. Granted, this has improved in the last year, but they're still having to remove content from the game because the PS3 just doesn't have the ability to use it without having performance issues. The PS3 simply isn't capable of executing the gameplay that they want to create. The second problem is the really big one, which comes down to project management limitations. CCP uses an agile methodology, where you release early and often (even if that release is just to a test server). This is particularly helpful when you're creating something entirely new and huge that your customers are already using, because you can get updates to users much faster then get feedback about the updates and use that to inform you for the next update. It speeds things up tremendously. On the PC platform they control their own servers and can release updates every day if they want. On the PS3 if they make any kind of server side change development basically stops for two weeks while PSN decides whether or not the update is approved. This also means that they can't give us a test server where we can log in and find all the nasty, unexpected issues introduced with an update. On PC you just create a copy of your client, change a setting and it logs into the test server instead. These things severely slow down the development cycle. This is probably the biggest factor in why we got a year worth of bug fixing and failed balancing attempts after release. No test server for players to find how changes can be abused, and when problems are found it can take a long while before they get fixed because you have to wait for Sony to approve any changes before your fix can be tried in a real environment. Then you find out your fix doesn't quite do the trick and you have to go through the whole hassle all over again. In an environment where you control the server it goes more like: 1) Deploy fix. Didn't work exactly as you wanted. 2) Alter something and deploy again. 3) Is it how you want it to be? No? Repeat step 2 until you're satisfied. You simply can't do this on a console. It just isn't an option. Choosing to go with a console was ambitious, and from a market perspective it was the way to go. There's far more money to be made there. But from a technical perspective it was the wrong place to start. They should have created a game that matches their vision on PC first with console limitations in mind and then, once it was feature complete, push it out to a console. I'm hoping this is what will happen with Legion. They could still create some links between Dust and the new sov mechanics, but they'd have to create a lot of new content and server side changes to support it and the project management limitations imposed by the console platform are just not a good match for that. And in the end it still wouldn't be the game that they actually wanted to make. I'm expecting Dust to continue on as an eve themed shooter that is very lightly connected to Eve, while Legion will become the one that is heavily linked.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3618	Posted - 2015.03.04 15:25:00 - [32] - Quote Agree with everything but the making it for ps3 was smart. It was not smart at time and history proved many people right and badly damaged CCP's reputation. It was massively stuiped ego driven decision we all questioned right off the bat in weekend testing. You should have seen the uproar the laser focused comments caused at the time nobody including many in ccp though sticking with the ps3 was a good idea, but management failures caused those voices to be ignored. Lucky ccp have corrected those mistakes and I don't think anyone who made those stuiped calls is with ccp anymore. I even think some old hands at EvE got pushed out too... As an example even Sony beta tested their big shooter first in PC before pushing to consoles years later =ƒÿå=ƒÿå=ƒÿå=ƒÿå (joke) You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 143	Posted - 2015.03.05 02:45:00 - [33] - Quote I wrote: Please tell me why any of this can't be done in dust? Kristoff Atruin wrote: stuff I can tell you know a bit, but this makes my head hurt. The biggest issue they had in early development wasn't the limitations of the ps3, it was the limitations of certain aspects of the ps3 architecture relative to the development experience of the team. In other words, we essentially had a team of PC programmers developing for a vastly different platform. One that was designed to be difficult and expensive to learn(sony has some incredibly stupid reasons for choosing to do this) But before Iget too deep into that, iI need to point out that the legion tease didn't run on the same engine as dust. It didnt run on any engine. It wasnt connected to any server. It wasnt a game at all. It was a small prototype that would barely run. It was made from the dust framework jury rigged to barely be capable of running on the pc they demoed it on. It was extremely limited, and theudea that it was so brilliant is absurd. Legion would be a disaster if they continue it. How much source code written for a CELL BE do you really think will run on an x86/64 platform? To have something as simplistic as what they showed(which would be single player of course) on PC that runs reliably would take quite a bit of development work, and thats just what was shown in the legion teaser, and not any of the things that dust already has. Besides which, you understand most of the glitches and lag we experience have to do with synchronizing 32 players over psn across tranquility through the battle clusters while still exchanging data between tq and the battle clusters? In other words, the only real improvement from leaving the ps3 is cutting psn out of the equation, which would help some but is already where a lot of their optimization efforts have gone. The tqGåÆbattle clusters part, where the most optimization appears to be needed, is what would be carried over, bringing all the problems dust has with it. Again with the exception that dust is written for a 10 core proprietary system and most of the source wouldn't carry over. So before we progress beyond dust were looking at a massive undertaking to ( not even port but) mostly rewrite dust as a PC game. As you can see by playing, they've been getting better and better at programming for ps3, so a move to PC now that their getting going in the right direction seems silly. It would have merit if what you were saying about server side changes (like the tqGåÆbattle cluster optimizations that dust needs in order to fix the lag) having to go through Sony were true, but they're patently false. A server side change involves changing something with tq, rebooting tq, and giving it a few days to see how the hotfix went. When they do implement server side changes, Sony doesn't even know about it. This is why rattati was only able to achieve these at first. Dust wasn't making money, the draconian greenlight process Sony forces on their third party developers is not only tedious but costly(you have to pay Sony to let you put a patch out... Assuming they say its OK to do so) whereas tq is ccps brainchild, their property, and it doesn't cost anything to deploy a change to tranquility and see how it goes. Also, CCP favors a "games as a service, not a product" ideology, and that's why with both dust and eve and (soonGäó) valk they will continue to patch, tweak, tweak, patch, tweak, tweak, expansion, tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak, patch, tweak, tweak, patch, etc. The idea that moving dust to PC will change this is laughable because they're still doing it with eve of course they'd do it with legion! The difference is that console players lack the patience, attention span, and long term vision for something like dust to work out. Console gamers are too ADD: its gotta be everything they expect sooner than they've been told quick because otherwise they're moving on to the next game/system yesterday. Honestly aside from inexperience with console development, the worst thing about dust 514 is the player base and the eve players tried to warn CCP that console gamers are idiots that won't be capable of hangingbtight for a 10-year game and you know what? In a lot of ways they were right. That said, the dev team HAS made strides with ps3 development, the back end optimization to fix the lag issues that got introduced to dust when tranquility became part of the equation CAN be fixed mostly server side(which again is the free fixes, not the ones that Sony controls as you said) there IS plenty of room for the game to grow without tapping the limitations of the ps3, AND the player base has been getting sold the idea of a long-term evolving game, thanks to rattati. After many disappointments(on both sides) the dust 514 player base is learning to have patience and see improvements come one at a time instead of "these things all needed fixed or added so overnight we redid the game and now here's everything". When I put it like that, nobody will say they had that kind of expectation, but when you talk to the players in game you see that that's sort of the mentality, and you also can see that that's changing. The dust plauerbase is evolving and growing, just as the dust dev team is, and to throw that all away now while dust is beginning to take flight and has so much more room to grow into being the planetary companion to eve that we all dreamed of... Well, that would be idiotic. That would be a massive waste of my money(and other peoples money too) and would be the rouge wedding all over again EXCEPT that the dust player base will almost unanimously say " they betrayed us. We gave them a second chance, we began to believe in them and they betrayed us again. We were tricked I to spending money again on a fools errand. Never again. Fool me twice CCP... Never again" and they... That is WE... Would be right. And legion would never make it off the ground. nobody would fall for it again Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2260	Posted - 2015.03.05 15:06:00 - [34] - Quote Yeah, I know a bit. I've been a professional developer for 10 years now. "It didnt run on any engine" And this is where I can tell you don't know a bit, and I'm not reading the rest of that blob of text until you learn to use paragraphs. An engine is just a platform for a game to run on which basically handles the graphics. It has nothing to do with servers, or finished game design. You can go download a copy of the unreal engine right now, load up a map and run around in it. Bam, you're in an engine with no servers and no game. If it didn't run on an engine, it didn't run at all and the video we saw of CCP devs playing around in Legion was actually a mass delusion, caused by hallucinogens in the water supply. When Legion was announced we thought that maybe they would put it on UE4, but they outright told us it was the same version of UE3 that Dust runs on, which they went to GDC to present their customizations for long before Dust was in beta. They didn't create the customizations for the PS3 platform. They would have made those before the PS3 platform was even chosen on a PC and then ported the code over for the PS3 version of the engine. The architecture difference was a hurdle no doubt, but it wasn't why we got a year worth of slow development. Every time a patch went off for approval development stopped for what seemed like two weeks. If you release once a month that means 50% of your manpower is wasted on an external dependency. There might be some small tasks that devs can work on in the meantime, but it is nowhere near the level of productivity. I've seen it personally time and time again. The whole release strategy depended on being able to update the game frequently, which is something the platform chosen did not allow for.
G Clone Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2015.03.05 17:28:00 - [35] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: Legion not appearing at Fanfest is obviously troubling. Why would CCP Shanghai not present their top priority game at CCP's biggest public event of the year by far? Logically we can only draw several conclusions, the correct one being known probably only to CCP (and possibly the CPM but not a guarantee.) Allow me to help you understand: Every last few years leading up, and at, EVE FanFest, CCP has gotten increasingly more eager and excited about DUST514 (and later Legion), and every year the result has been worse than the last... So, with there being absolutely nothing pre-announced about DUST or Legion, with no events for DUST or Legion, and with CCP Games being absolutely quiet about DUST and Legion, I predict that the DUST community will have the best-ever EVE FanFest, courtesy of CCP keeping shut!
DaReaperPW Net 7 79	Posted - 2015.03.05 19:41:00 - [36] - Quote G Clone wrote: Hynox Xitio wrote: Legion not appearing at Fanfest is obviously troubling. Why would CCP Shanghai not present their top priority game at CCP's biggest public event of the year by far? Logically we can only draw several conclusions, the correct one being known probably only to CCP (and possibly the CPM but not a guarantee.) Allow me to help you understand: Every last few years leading up, and at, EVE FanFest, CCP has gotten increasingly more eager and excited about DUST514 (and later Legion), and every year the result has been worse than the last... So, with there being absolutely nothing pre-announced about DUST or Legion, with no events for DUST or Legion, and with CCP Games being absolutely quiet about DUST and Legion, I predict that the DUST community will have the best-ever EVE FanFest, courtesy of CCP keeping shut! Pretty much. I was watching the live stream, and before that i remember seeing the hype when the ccp trademarking of EVE legion went public. People were excited for what it could be, and for dust on pc, no ps4, no pc. Lots of debates were happening. The devs even built up more and more hype. During the stream when they announced Dust on pc the room exploded with cheers. Twitch chat exploded with 'FINALLY!" and then.. 25 or so min into the hour long keynote, it was done. And that was the issue. Then came the back lash. No news is good in this aspect. CCP messed up huge last year. If they had taken that last 20 min or so of the keynote and given dust players an idea as to what was coming for them, besides legion, legion would of been greenlite by now. The reaction to it on pc, via the stream, was BIGGER then that of valk. At this point, i don;t think its dead, i think them not talking is good. I think Valkryie will have a TON of stuff and momentum. And i think CCP wants to wait and get the valkryie show over then start talking more.
DaReaperPW Net 7 79	Posted - 2015.03.05 19:44:00 - [37] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Quote: Please tell me why any of this can't be done in dust? Because the PS3 didn't work for them as a platform. Two problems. Firstly the very obvious issue of hardware limitations. Legion runs the same engine as Dust. They've spent so much time customizing UE3 that it makes more sense for them to keep using it than switching to UE4 and recreating their customization. Compare the legion vid to the dust vid. Look at how smoothly it runs while looking far, far better. Look at how poorly dust runs. Granted, this has improved in the last year, but they're still having to remove content from the game because the PS3 just doesn't have the ability to use it without having performance issues. The PS3 simply isn't capable of executing the gameplay that they want to create. The second problem is the really big one, which comes down to project management limitations. CCP uses an agile methodology, where you release early and often (even if that release is just to a test server). This is particularly helpful when you're creating something entirely new and huge that your customers are already using, because you can get updates to users much faster then get feedback about the updates and use that to inform you for the next update. It speeds things up tremendously. On the PC platform they control their own servers and can release updates every day if they want. On the PS3 if they make any kind of server side change development basically stops for two weeks while PSN decides whether or not the update is approved. This also means that they can't give us a test server where we can log in and find all the nasty, unexpected issues introduced with an update. On PC you just create a copy of your client, change a setting and it logs into the test server instead. These things severely slow down the development cycle. This is probably the biggest factor in why we got a year worth of bug fixing and failed balancing attempts after release. No test server for players to find how changes can be abused, and when problems are found it can take a long while before they get fixed because you have to wait for Sony to approve any changes before your fix can be tried in a real environment. Then you find out your fix doesn't quite do the trick and you have to go through the whole hassle all over again. In an environment where you control the server it goes more like: 1) Deploy fix. Didn't work exactly as you wanted. 2) Alter something and deploy again. 3) Is it how you want it to be? No? Repeat step 2 until you're satisfied. You simply can't do this on a console. It just isn't an option. Choosing to go with a console was ambitious, and from a market perspective it was the way to go. There's far more money to be made there. But from a technical perspective it was the wrong place to start. They should have created a game that matches their vision on PC first with console limitations in mind and then, once it was feature complete, push it out to a console. I'm hoping this is what will happen with Legion. They could still create some links between Dust and the new sov mechanics, but they'd have to create a lot of new content and server side changes to support it and the project management limitations imposed by the console platform are just not a good match for that. And in the end it still wouldn't be the game that they actually wanted to make. I'm expecting Dust to continue on as an eve themed shooter that is very lightly connected to Eve, while Legion will become the one that is heavily linked. This, though the only mild advantage to working in stuff for the ps3 is that in theory all ps3's are the same, so one bug on 1 ps3 should be on all. And one fix shoudl fix them all. But i think that the approval process for patches really did hinder dust. And i think dust could greatly be improved with a shorter cycle. Which is why legion being on pc and on tq would make its development better just that they then control it. with out a middle man
Jathniel Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1490	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:08:00 - [38] - Quote This again? Thought there was no intention to mention Legion NOR Dust at Fanfest. Greiv Rabbah wrote: [quote=DAMIOS82] . . .forget about legion and join the push to see dust become the game we were all promised. A game that was promised to have 10 years of content... on a platform that in a year or so will no longer be manufactured... with a steady, yet dwindling playerbase? Forget about what again? Dust is merely going to run as token extra income until it's no longer profitable. So you better get realistic, and forget about 'the game we were all promised'. (because that's what Legion was supposed to be.) Retired
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 156	Posted - 2015.03.06 12:56:00 - [39] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Yeah, I know a bit. I've been a professional developer for 10 years now. "It didnt run on any engine" And this is where I can tell you don't know a bit, and I'm not reading the rest of that blob of text until you learn to use paragraphs. An engine is just a platform for a game to run on which basically handles the graphics. It has nothing to do with servers, or finished game design. You can go download a copy of the unreal engine right now, load up a map and run around in it. Bam, you're in an engine with no servers and no game. If it didn't run on an engine, it didn't run at all and the video we saw of CCP devs playing around in Legion was actually a mass delusion, caused by hallucinogens in the water supply. When Legion was announced we thought that maybe they would put it on UE4, but they outright told us it was the same version of UE3 that Dust runs on, which they went to GDC to present their customizations for long before Dust was in beta. They didn't create the customizations for the PS3 platform. They would have made those before the PS3 platform was even chosen on a PC and then ported the code over for the PS3 version of the engine. The architecture difference was a hurdle no doubt, but it wasn't why we got a year worth of slow development. Every time a patch went off for approval development stopped for what seemed like two weeks. If you release once a month that means 50% of your manpower is wasted on an external dependency. There might be some small tasks that devs can work on in the meantime, but it is nowhere near the normal level of productivity. I've seen it personally time and time again. The whole release strategy depended on being able to update the game frequently, which is something the platform chosen did not allow for. Cant use paragraphs when I run out of available characters and if you've been programming for 10 years I know a bit more than you son. Which is why I ran out of space while trying to educate your smart ass. Don't try and tell me what an engine is. I build them. Ue3 is an engine in the strictest sense, yes, but go ahead and get the udk. Its stripped down, its nothing like dust, all of the components that CCP developed, which are a large part of the actual custom engine that dust uses are outright missing as they were in the legion teaser. You've got a few art assets stolen from dust, some stripped down middleware, and the promise to sell us the dream that was dust 514. "Was a hurdle no doubt" lololol either you've never coded for ps3 or you're trolling. I'm done. Go away. Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 156	Posted - 2015.03.06 13:14:00 - [40] - Quote DaReaperPW wrote: This, though the only mild advantage to working in stuff for the ps3 is that in theory all ps3's are the same, so one bug on 1 ps3 should be on all. And one fix shoudl fix them all. But i think that the approval process for patches really did hinder dust. And i think dust could greatly be improved with a shorter cycle. Which is why legion being on pc and on tq would make its development better just that they then control it. with out a middle man Oh look, an intelligent post. Yes greater revision control is an advantage of bringing legion to fruition. At this point in time its the only one. The dev team is getting better at ps3 coding and the ps3 is nowhere near its hardware limitations. The issue dust once had is that given the dev teams training with and understanding of the ps3 as a development platform, they had reached the limit of what they were able to accomplish. Remember, they were coming from computer development backgrounds, and the ps3 is a whole nother gnarly bucktoothed beast. They had to learn ps3 development better before making a 10-year ps3 game; they have a much better chance at that as they are now, but they will need to continue to learn and grow as they dive deeper into the systems architecture or the game will flounder. The game also won't have a chance if its players keep up their console gamer mentality. Dust 514 was never a good fit for a crowd that has the attention span of a fruit fly. Like the guy above who can't read a little text but thinks he's going to tell a programmer of 18 years what an engine is. The game still has a lot of potential if and only if the player base doesn't fly off to the next big thing the instant they see something shiny. Sadly, that's console gamers for ya. And buying a PC for a prototype of a potential PC port that's so far off in the future any PC you bought now wouldn't run it by the time it was a reasonably playable beta doesn't make one a PC gamer. It makes them a stereotypical consoles gamer that just wasted a chunk of money. Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face



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