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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3388
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 17:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Many people lobby for the infantry shield transporter. They say it should just be the repair tool, but repairs shields instead. Now, I'm not saying that's a bad idea, I just think its a boring one. Why not a shield-based active equipment that functions somewhat differently from the repair tool, but still has the same overall effect of reinforcing the recipient?
Before I explain the equipment itself, I wanted to explain my idea of, "tethering." To tether yourself to someone else, you would take out the equipment in question, point it at a team-mate, press R1, and you would be tethered to them. You wouldn't have to hold the button down, and you could even change from the equipment to another piece of equipment or even to your weapon. The tether would break at a certain distance, in which case you have to take the equipment back out and re-tether yourself to your friend.
With that explained, more about the shield tether. Using the mechanic I explained, as long as you were tethered to your team-mate, your shields would be gone. 0 shields, and they wouldn't regenerate, either. The benefit would be that your team-mate would receive the shields that you lost, and also gain the regen rate. (The team-mate's shield regen delay would still apply, however)
An example, just in case I am explaining this poorly. For the sake of easy numbers, let's say you have 100 shields and they regen at 20/s. Your team-mate also has 100 shields and also regens at 20/s. You take out your shield tether, and lock on to your team-mate. Now, you have 0 shields that regen at 0/s, but your team-mate has 200 shields that regen at 40/s. If the tether were broken, you would get your shield stats back and your team-mate would lose his benefits.
The reason that I like this idea is that the power of the equipment is dependent upon your own suit. The vulnerability of the user is also dependent upon the suit. If a Gallente logi used this equipment, he would buff his team-mate less than a Calogi, but he would still have decent tank to protect himself. Vise versa, if a Calogi used this, his team-mate would receive a much greater buff, but the Calogi would be very vulnerable with just his armor. It promotes risk vs reward, the amount that you sacrifice is equivalent to the amount your team-mate receives.
Now, you may be thinking this could be overpowered. Two Cal Assaults with 500 shields team up, one hangs back while giving his shields to the other one and there is a badass Cal assault with 1000 shields that regen at 100/s running around. Well, my thoughts were to make this tool function the same for logi's as the cloak functions for scouts. High CPU/PG requirements that you could afford on another suit if you make large sacrifices, but logi's receive a large CPU/PG reduction on that specific piece of equipment. Giving it the same steep CPU/PG costs as a cloak field and giving logi's a 75% CPU/PG reduction would work well.
As far as the actual implementation of the shield tether, since Rattati said we could use existing assets to make new weapons, I imagine the same would apply to making new equipment. It could look the same as the repair tool, but colored different as befits a piece of Caldari tech and the beam would be neon blue instead of gold. It would be nice if there were a blue glow around the recipient's screen, like the repair tool used to have. To encourage use of higher tiers, there could be a small benefit to shield regen delay that increases with each tier, and of course range of the tether would also increase.
Stats:
Logistics Dropsuit Skill: -15% shield tether CPU/PG cost per level
STD Shield Tether CPU: 180 (Logi w/max skill: 45) PG: 8 (Logi: 2) Range: 10m Shield Recharge Delay Modifier: -5%
ADV Shield Tether CPU: 200 (Logi: 50) PG: 10 (Logi: 2.5) Range: 12m Shield Recharge Delay Modifier: -10%
PRO Shield Tether CPU: 220 (Logi: 55) PG: 12 (Logi: 3) Range: 15m Shield Recharge Delay Modifier: -15%
Feedback appreciated.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Ku Shala
The Generals
1039
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Posted - 2014.12.05 18:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
so how does this help shield based logi suit with 100 base armour?
shield transported should help shields recover at the dropsuits fixed rate without delay while not taking damage.
duck recover return to battle quicker not logi leash
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)
Caldari Loyalist
*Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3833
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Posted - 2014.12.05 18:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Interesting idea though like poster #2 stated, I'm concerned that because Logis typically have such horrifically bad shield HP, the benefit is very small when used by Logi which seems counterintuitive.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Isa Lucifer
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
118
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Posted - 2014.12.05 18:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
I actually like the idea a lot. It would encourage shield based logis. Also it is a new spin on being a support class, giving part of your health to someone else, seems like the ultimate sacrifice.
Pokey Dravon; Well because most Logis are either Amarr or Gallente, who traditionally have lower shields than Caldari and Minmatar. With this new equipment, there would be more people playing Caldari and Minmatar Logi.
Ku Shala; thats what the shield transporter and current armor repairer does. He wanted to create something new, out-of-the-box.
Good idea Logi Bro. Plus 10 for originality.
Amarr Victor
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3835
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Posted - 2014.12.05 18:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Isa Lucifer wrote:I actually like the idea a lot. It would encourage shield based logis. Also it is a new spin on being a support class, giving part of your health to someone else, seems like the ultimate sacrifice.
Pokey Dravon; Well because most Logis are either Amarr or Gallente, who traditionally have lower shields than Caldari and Minmatar. With this new equipment, there would be more people playing Caldari and Minmatar Logi.
Ku Shala; thats what the shield transporter and current armor repairer does. He wanted to create something new, out-of-the-box.
Good idea Logi Bro. Plus 10 for originality.
Going to have to disagree with you on that, I think Gallente is underplayed and Minmatar is very popular because of the repair tool bonus.
And I think I see it as the exact opposite, shield Logis will be discouraged from using it because it completely knocks out their main line of defense. I know I certainty would not be using it as a Caldari Logi.
The idea is very interesting, I don't have an issue with the general concept of tethering to another unit to provide benefit, that in itself is neat. I think my main issue comes from the reduction of shield HP, particularly when a repair tool can provide substantial reps without affecting their defenses at all. Perhaps less downsides and then I'd consider it viable?
Also random sidebar thought, shield tool that decreases target's recharge delay by a % and increases their natural shield recharge rate by a %?
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Isa Lucifer
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
118
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Posted - 2014.12.05 18:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon; I have to agree on you with Minmatar logis. I see plenty of them, but then again plenty of Amarr and Galente. As we have no # to support ourselves, lets forget about that argument.
Maybe the person that tethers keeps their shields but looses the shield regeneration. This will make the person stop tethering to heal back up.
You-¦re sidebar throught; That might be more original for the shield transporter than a copy/paste of the repair tool.
Amarr Victor
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3835
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Posted - 2014.12.05 19:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Isa Lucifer wrote:Pokey Dravon; I have to agree on you with Minmatar logis. I see plenty of them, but then again plenty of Amarr and Galente. As we have no # to support ourselves, lets forget about that argument.
Maybe the person that tethers keeps their shields but looses the shield regeneration. This will make the person stop tethering to heal back up.
You-¦re sidebar throught; That might be more original for the shield transporter than a copy/paste of the repair tool.
Perhaps. I guess my point is.....if this is to be a shield alternative to armor repair tools, and if its going to have downsides, the upsides need to be equally as prominent. I mean while using a Repair Tool, your defenses are not hindered in any way, so if the Shield Tether is going to have hindered defenses, the benefit it provides needs to be greater than that of an armor repair tool. Am I making any sense lol? It's friday and I'm fried.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3389
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 19:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ku Shala wrote:so how does this help shield based logi suit with 100 base armour?
shield transported should help shields recover at the dropsuits fixed rate without delay while not taking damage.
duck recover return to battle quicker not logi leash
That's just the thing, it doesn't help the logi, it hinders him in exchange for boosting his team-mate's efficiency. It makes his team-mate a tank (or even more of a tank than he already was) while leaving the logi exposed. If the two work together, it could potentially be very powerful, but just some random blueberries running around trying to use it on people they have no communication with wouldn't work well.
And, as I said, I wanted it to be a little different from the rep tool.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2648
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 19:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Isa Lucifer wrote:I actually like the idea a lot. It would encourage shield based logis. Also it is a new spin on being a support class, giving part of your health to someone else, seems like the ultimate sacrifice.
Pokey Dravon; Well because most Logis are either Amarr or Gallente, who traditionally have lower shields than Caldari and Minmatar. With this new equipment, there would be more people playing Caldari and Minmatar Logi.
Ku Shala; thats what the shield transporter and current armor repairer does. He wanted to create something new, out-of-the-box.
Good idea Logi Bro. Plus 10 for originality. Going to have to disagree with you on that, I think Gallente is underplayed and Minmatar is very popular because of the repair tool bonus. And I think I see it as the exact opposite, shield Logis will be discouraged from using it because it completely knocks out their main line of defense. I know I certainty would not be using it as a Caldari Logi. The idea is very interesting, I don't have an issue with the general concept of tethering to another unit to provide benefit, that in itself is neat. I think my main issue comes from the reduction of shield HP, particularly when a repair tool can provide substantial reps without affecting their defenses at all. Perhaps less downsides and then I'd consider it viable? Also random sidebar thought, shield tool that decreases target's recharge delay by a % and increases their natural shield recharge rate by a %? Gallente is crazy powerful, just nobody uses it (or uses it "correctly").
I have a STD suit with 2 CreoDron Flux and Duvoll Focused fitted with an enh plate and complex repair and a standard CR. Perma-scans (minus like 1-2 sec) at 200m with a 90-¦ angle (with a little "spin-to-win" still possible, so probably nearer 135-¦) and the focused incase some scout tries to sneak up on me, with +500ehp with like 15hp/sec (not bad at a STD logi level, my Min logi only has like 450ehp at 3-5ish hp/s).
Basically I can sit up on the Bravo Building above the supply depot on Boulder Rim and perma-scan everything between our redline and Alpha for the WHOLE TEAM to see.
It would be even better if it got a decent slot progression (only two lows at STD, needs like 3 lows and 1 high or something).
This isn't a complaint, I'm just pointing out the fact that the Gal scout is one of the most powerful Logis in the game and frankly I'm stunned by it's disuse (especially with all the scout QQ).
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3836
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 19:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Two Logis Tether Together.
Universe is Divided by Zero.
Mass Destruction Far Surpassing the EVE Gate Explosion.
Generations will look across the barren wastelands of New Eden.
Their homes, lives, everything they've ever loved completely destroyed.
Children will look up at the sky, tears of rage in their eyes, muttering the name of the man who brought about the worlds' ruin.
Logi Bro.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3389
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Posted - 2014.12.05 19:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Interesting idea though like poster #2 stated, I'm concerned that because Logis typically have such horrifically bad shield HP, the benefit is very small when used by Logi which seems counterintuitive.
My thoughts were that, yes, an armor logi would give much less benefit than the Caldari logi, but it would still be a viable option as a tool since it would also not leave them as exposed since their main tank is armor.
The same piece of equipment would essentially function differently for each race, Caldari would be the ultimate support unit with this tool, leaving himself openly exposed, but giving a large boost, Gallente/Amarr would still be tanky (as tanky as a logi can be, at least) but not as dedicated to the support effort with less effect, and admittedly, the Min logi would have little use for it.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2648
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 19:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Realized my above post was really off topic, even to the post I was replying toGǪ
Anyway, to the OP:
I don't like this idea. Given the stats only shield logi's would find any real benefit to this and, as mentioned above, it will leave them incredibly vulnerable, and once the Logi is dead, the beneficiary loses the rep bonus (which honestly isn't that great to begin with).
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3390
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 19:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Also random sidebar thought, shield tool that decreases target's recharge delay by a % and increases their natural shield recharge rate by a %?
To be fair, that is basically what I am proposing, but also with increase of the target's shields at the expense of the logi's shields. The idea behind the loss of the logi's shields is to give the tool a weakness. If it were just a straight up buff, then every support logi under the sun would just equip the shield tether+repair tool, tether themselves, then take out the rep tool and keep repping. You could do that with what I proposed, but the logi is more exposed, thus more risk for more reward.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3836
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 19:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Also random sidebar thought, shield tool that decreases target's recharge delay by a % and increases their natural shield recharge rate by a %? To be fair, that is basically what I am proposing, but also with increase of the target's shields at the expense of the logi's shields. The idea behind the loss of the logi's shields is to give the tool a weakness. If it were just a straight up buff, then every support logi under the sun would just equip the shield tether+repair tool, tether themselves, then take out the rep tool and keep repping. You could do that with what I proposed, but the logi is more exposed, thus more risk for more reward.
Well in this case it would be actively held like a Repair Tool, so you can't do both at once. Similar function to the repair tool but by a % increase rather than an absolute value like repair tools work.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3391
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 19:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Two Logis Tether Together.
Universe is Divided by Zero.
Mass Destruction Far Surpassing the EVE Gate Explosion.
Generations will look across the barren wastelands of New Eden.
Their homes, lives, everything they've ever loved completely destroyed.
Children will look up at the sky, tears of rage in their eyes, muttering the name of the man who brought about the worlds' ruin.
Logi Bro.
Or they would just exchange shield stats?
Also, to reply to the comment you made before this one, I understand the point you are making. It is a large detriment to the logi, while only a marginal increase if you were linked to a sentinel. But, in all fairness, is the rep tool really that powerful? The best tool + the Min logi bonus will still only give like 150/s (not actually 100% sure about that) while STD weapons do about 400 dps.
With the rep tool, the logi is completely used up, he can't do anything but rep, and even with the best tool against STD weapons, he would at best be negating ~40% of the damage. With the shield tether, the targeted team-mate has a significantly lower downtime, even with an armor logi using the shield tether, +15/s will get you to full shields much faster, the targeted team-mate has more shields, and the logi isn't used up. he can pull out his weapon and shoot the enemy while still providing support on his team-mate. All that in exchange for the logi's shields seems fair to me.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3838
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Posted - 2014.12.05 19:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Two Logis Tether Together.
Universe is Divided by Zero.
Mass Destruction Far Surpassing the EVE Gate Explosion.
Generations will look across the barren wastelands of New Eden.
Their homes, lives, everything they've ever loved completely destroyed.
Children will look up at the sky, tears of rage in their eyes, muttering the name of the man who brought about the worlds' ruin.
Logi Bro. Or they would just exchange shield stats? Also, to reply to the comment you made before this one, I understand the point you are making. It is a large detriment to the logi, while only a marginal increase if you were linked to a sentinel. But, in all fairness, is the rep tool really that powerful? The best tool + the Min logi bonus will still only give like 150/s (not actually 100% sure about that) while STD weapons do about 400 dps. With the rep tool, the logi is completely used up, he can't do anything but rep, and even with the best tool against STD weapons, he would at best be negating ~40% of the damage. With the shield tether, the targeted team-mate has a significantly lower downtime, even with an armor logi using the shield tether, +15/s will get you to full shields much faster, the targeted team-mate has more shields, and the logi isn't used up. he can pull out his weapon and shoot the enemy while still providing support on his team-mate. All that in exchange for the logi's shields seems fair to me.
The advantage that they can do something while tethered is a valid advantage over the repair tool, I'll give you that. I guess what has me spooked is the "lose all shields/recharge" aspect of it. I think I'd be more comfortable with a percent reduction + benefit? What if you tiered it in such a way that the advantage was the same but the penalty decreased as tiers go up?
Well regardless its certainly and intriguing idea, specifics aside.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3391
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Posted - 2014.12.05 20:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote: The advantage that they can do something while tethered is a valid advantage over the repair tool, I'll give you that. I guess what has me spooked is the "lose all shields/recharge" aspect of it. I think I'd be more comfortable with a percent reduction + benefit? What if you tiered it in such a way that the advantage was the same but the penalty decreased as tiers go up?
Well regardless its certainly and intriguing idea, specifics aside.
What if only the PRO tier gave 100% shields? You could use a MLT shield tether to give 25%, a STD to give 50%, and an ADV to give 75%. The logi can choose how much to sacrifice in order to benefit his team-mate. Armor logi's might use PRO because they don't care as much about shields, but shield logi's could use MLT, STD, or ADV to keep some of their own tank, and could still use the PRO if they chose to do so.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Ku Shala
The Generals
1039
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Posted - 2014.12.05 20:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
advanced cal logi would give around 500hp if it was shield tanked and base armour is 90 how long is that going to last with 90 hp. remember it has 2 low fitting slots. you said "weapons do about 400 dps" so a 2 second engagement.
a high cost piece of equipment that aids a shield for 2 seconds that costs the shield or the user. better if you both just shoot
I give you respect for a original idea but its equipment that would be popular to a armour based suit to equip to use on shield suits (backwards). If anything I would like to see an equipment like this in the after level 5 gear say if you had (level 5 repair tools and level 5 shield regen)_ or (amar logi 5 and caldari logi 5) or (mimatar logi 5 and gallante logi 5)
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)
Caldari Loyalist
*Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3838
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Posted - 2014.12.05 20:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote: The advantage that they can do something while tethered is a valid advantage over the repair tool, I'll give you that. I guess what has me spooked is the "lose all shields/recharge" aspect of it. I think I'd be more comfortable with a percent reduction + benefit? What if you tiered it in such a way that the advantage was the same but the penalty decreased as tiers go up?
Well regardless its certainly and intriguing idea, specifics aside.
What if only the PRO tier gave 100% shields? You could use a MLT shield tether to give 25%, a STD to give 50%, and an ADV to give 75%. The logi can choose how much to sacrifice in order to benefit his team-mate. Armor logi's might use PRO because they don't care as much about shields, but shield logi's could use MLT, STD, or ADV to keep some of their own tank, and could still use the PRO if they chose to do so.
Maybe not those exact numbers, but something along that line would sit better with me personally.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3391
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Posted - 2014.12.05 20:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ku Shala wrote:advanced cal logi would give around 500hp if it was shield tanked and base armour is 90 how long is that going to last with 90 hp. remember it has 2 low fitting slots. you said "weapons do about 400 dps" so a 2 second engagement.
a high cost piece of equipment that aids a shield for 2 seconds that costs the shield or the user. better if you both just shoot
I give you respect for a original idea but its equipment that would be popular to a armour based suit to equip to use on shield suits (backwards). If anything I would like to see an equipment like this in the after level 5 gear say if you had (level 5 repair tools and level 5 shield regen)_ or (amar logi 5 and caldari logi 5) or (mimatar logi 5 and gallante logi 5)
The idea is that the target of the shield tether would be the front-man taking the damage, and you can both be shooting your opponents since you don't always have to have the shield tether equipped to use it. If an enemy is smart enough to shoot past your front-man, however, then you have the disadvantage of the tool.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3246
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Posted - 2014.12.05 20:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
I would love to see a shield booster rep tool, that actually instantly restores targets shield but with a cooldown. It follows the caldari shield doctrine well, stand and deliver.
The mechanics are there to do this: - Cloak has a cooldown/recharge mechanic. - Rep tool has a beam and model to use like assets.
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
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Isa Lucifer
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
119
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Posted - 2014.12.05 20:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Logi Bro; I like the idea of MLT, STD, ADV and PRO giving different percentages of their shield to target. But to be a fair exchange, all shields of the person who tethers have to be down to 0%. Maybe, to be actually used by all 4 would be;
MLT 60 STD 75 ADV 90 PRO 100
This would be tied to the Meta level of the item. Higher Meta, higher efficency.
Amarr Victor
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Isa Lucifer
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
119
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Posted - 2014.12.05 20:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I would love to see a shield booster rep tool, that actually instantly restores targets shield but with a cooldown. It follows the caldari shield doctrine well, stand and deliver.
The mechanics are there to do this: - Cloak has a cooldown/recharge mechanic. - Rep tool has a beam and model to use like assets.
I actually think that a shield booster module/equipment should exist on dropsuits. This would reinforce shield tanking as a viable tactic.
Amarr Victor
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
253
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Posted - 2014.12.05 22:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
I think it would be more reasonable if the a shield transporter gave your shields to your target to refill them up to 125% of their max HP, which then slowly degrades back to 100% after you stop shield transporting them.
Example:
Logi with 300 Shield is repping his 500 shield HP assault buddy.
He loses 125 HP, dropping down to 175, to give give his target 625 Shield total.
The assault takes a sniper round doing 500 damage, dropping his HP to 125.
The logi has regened some shields since then and is up to 250/300 shields, so his remaining 250 HP gets transferred to the assault, putting the target at 400 Shield HP.
Logi Bonus to shield transporting can boost the worth of his shields given to others, instead of being 1 for 1, each 1 shield the logi gives could be worth 1.5 shields to the target. To avoid abuse, the tools themselves could even have reduced efficiency. More basic tools transfer shields less per point than 1 for 1. |
Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
253
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Posted - 2014.12.05 22:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I would love to see a shield booster rep tool, that actually instantly restores targets shield but with a cooldown. It follows the caldari shield doctrine well, stand and deliver.
The mechanics are there to do this: - Cloak has a cooldown/recharge mechanic. - Rep tool has a beam and model to use like assets.
I do like this idea as well |
Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
1390
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 22:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pro Calmando with this
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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