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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
15472
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more?
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5340
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
They are annoyed that they can't role hop anymore, at least that is the impression that I get.
To which I say:
To my real logibros and logisisters, who want to support your team full time: You rock and now your role has purpose. You deserve every WP you ever earn. o7
My advice to you, playa...
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2442
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Corn farmers lament droughts.
WP farmers lament bandwidth. |
robin williams' ghost
Damaged Beyond Repair
180
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sadly deletes spam suits Moves on with life as that is the way of dust Adapts and overcomes
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KingThunderBalt
2
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
I know a thing or two about haters
'Patrick57 thinks he is better than anyone he kills, all because he kills them once or twice' -KingThunderBolt
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
2281
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more? as a non spammer logi i lament having to waste a DS to get a "tactical" uplink placed out of the way so A-hole scouts cat camp it with their OP ness
#[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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KingThunderBalt
3
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more? as a non spammer logi i lament having to waste a DS to get a "tactical" uplink placed out of the way so A-hole scouts cat camp it with their OP ness
Confirmed, Cat merc camping is a thing.
'Patrick57 thinks he is better than anyone he kills, all because he kills them once or twice' -KingThunderBolt
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
784
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more? as a non spammer logi i lament having to waste a DS to get a "tactical" uplink placed out of the way so A-hole scouts cat camp it with their OP ness
As a person with spammer and no-spammer logi suits, how were you getting those "Tactical" uplinks there without a DS before if you'll now need one after bandwidth is added? |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
15473
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more? as a non spammer logi i lament having to waste a DS to get a "tactical" uplink placed out of the way so A-hole scouts cat camp it with their OP ness How is this different from anything ever?
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
2281
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more? as a non spammer logi i lament having to waste a DS to get a "tactical" uplink placed out of the way so A-hole scouts cat camp it with their OP ness As a person with spammer and no-spammer logi suits, how were you getting those "Tactical" uplinks there without a DS before if you'll now need one after bandwidth is added? because i have previously used a DS to get the first uplink there.. DUH!
#[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
784
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
This couldn't be more the reason they're whining.
As a full time gal logibro, I say bring on the changes. Sure, I won't be able to run around and drop 9 links at the start of a match anymore, but oh well. |
RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
784
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:RayRay James wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more? as a non spammer logi i lament having to waste a DS to get a "tactical" uplink placed out of the way so A-hole scouts cat camp it with their OP ness As a person with spammer and no-spammer logi suits, how were you getting those "Tactical" uplinks there without a DS before if you'll now need one after bandwidth is added? because i have previously used a DS to get the first uplink there.. DUH!
Then how does bandwidth change a damn thing in your scenario? |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5343
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Corn farmers lament droughts.
WP farmers lament bandwidth. Truest words spoken on the forums today.
My advice to you, playa...
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
1. Need an amarr proto logi to be able to put down a variety of links which wont get scanned or discovered so easily so my team can flank from varying directions
2. Amarr proto link fit puts me back 250k per suit, using this for pubs already puts me in the red after i die once
3. Im getting punished for trying to help the team, if i use a lower logi suit the links i can put on it will be less useful in spawn time, equip db meaning they will get eliminated more quickly, less links put down which means less directions to attack from
4. Amarr logi will not be able to put enough links down for a 5pt skirm
5. It forces me to only play as a logi, i could use other logi suits such as Gal/Minmatar and only have to put down a couple of things, with Amarr the bonus is for links but also i cannot change to match the situations ie going AV in a sentinal to kill a HAV or just playing with knifes for fun
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14139
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Posted - 2014.12.05 15:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Corn farmers lament droughts.
WP farmers lament bandwidth. Difference is, Corn Farmers are productive to society.
There's nothing productive about spamming EQ everywhere and then switching to a Scout or HMG at the Supply Depot.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
784
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Corn farmers lament droughts.
WP farmers lament bandwidth. Difference is, Corn Farmers are productive to society. There's nothing productive about spamming EQ everywhere and then switching to a Scout or HMG at the Supply Depot.
Wait, Atiim, are you actually against bandwidth? |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
5325
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
After listening to the concerns and sorting the legitimate from the overblown, I have come to the conclusion that the Caldari Logi needs a Sidearm slot.
That is, the Deployment oriented Logi suits need more versatility in their suit's fittings since they will be penalized for switching to other suits. Both Caldari and Amarr Logi should be able to make AV (Swarm Launcher) and anti Sniper (Sniper Rifle) fits. With a sidearm the Amarr can do this now, but the Caldari Logi needs a sidearm for personal defense when using these types of weapons.
The other two Logi are not as focused on Deployed Equipment, so switching to lower bandwidth suits when adapting to circumstance will not hurt them as much.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14140
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Atiim wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Corn farmers lament droughts.
WP farmers lament bandwidth. Difference is, Corn Farmers are productive to society. There's nothing productive about spamming EQ everywhere and then switching to a Scout or HMG at the Supply Depot. Wait, Atiim, are you actually against bandwidth? No, I'm not.
I was simply stating that spamming EQ everywhere is unproductive.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
784
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. Need an amarr proto logi to be able to put down a variety of links which wont get scanned or discovered so easily so my team can flank from varying directions
2. Amarr proto link fit puts me back 250k per suit, using this for pubs already puts me in the red after i die once
3. Im getting punished for trying to help the team, if i use a lower logi suit the links i can put on it will be less useful in spawn time, equip db meaning they will get eliminated more quickly, less links put down which means less directions to attack from
4. Amarr logi will not be able to put enough links down for a 5pt skirm
5. It forces me to only play as a logi, i could use other logi suits such as Gal/Minmatar and only have to put down a couple of things, with Amarr the bonus is for links but also i cannot change to match the situations ie going AV in a sentinal to kill a HAV or just playing with knifes for fun
Yes,m if you want to play the role of a logi now, you actually have TO BE A LOGI!
THE HORROR! |
Dauth Jenkins
Titans of Phoenix
591
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. Need an amarr proto logi to be able to put down a variety of links which wont get scanned or discovered so easily so my team can flank from varying directions
2. Amarr proto link fit puts me back 250k per suit, using this for pubs already puts me in the red after i die once
3. Im getting punished for trying to help the team, if i use a lower logi suit the links i can put on it will be less useful in spawn time, equip db meaning they will get eliminated more quickly, less links put down which means less directions to attack from
4. Amarr logi will not be able to put enough links down for a 5pt skirm
5. It forces me to only play as a logi, i could use other logi suits such as Gal/Minmatar and only have to put down a couple of things, with Amarr the bonus is for links but also i cannot change to match the situations ie going AV in a sentinal to kill a HAV or just playing with knifes for fun
Or... you could focus on only 3 points.. thats all you need to win a game i only run 1 uplink on my suit. 1 link is all you need to give the blueberries a chance. if they waste it, then shame on them, nothing you could do about it.
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
784
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Atiim wrote:RayRay James wrote:Atiim wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Corn farmers lament droughts.
WP farmers lament bandwidth. Difference is, Corn Farmers are productive to society. There's nothing productive about spamming EQ everywhere and then switching to a Scout or HMG at the Supply Depot. Wait, Atiim, are you actually against bandwidth? No, I'm not.
OK, I misread then |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
15475
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:After listening to the concerns and sorting the legitimate from the overblown, I have come to the conclusion that the Caldari Logi needs a Sidearm slot.
That is, the Deployment oriented Logi suits need more versatility in their suit's fittings since they will be penalized for switching to other suits. Both Caldari and Amarr Logi should be able to make AV (Swarm Launcher) and anti Sniper (Sniper Rifle) fits. With a sidearm the Amarr can do this now, but the Caldari Logi needs a sidearm for personal defense when using these types of weapons.
The other two Logi are not as focused on Deployed Equipment, so switching to lower bandwidth suits when adapting to circumstance will not hurt them as much. Thats a fair point, id bring that up in Feedback if you haven't already
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2446
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Corn farmers lament droughts.
WP farmers lament bandwidth. Difference is, Corn Farmers are productive to society. There's nothing productive about spamming EQ everywhere and then switching to a Scout or HMG at the Supply Depot.
Sure there is, otherwise it wouldn't be done.
However, there are also downsides, as most all of us have seen/experienced over the past two years or so.
The operative question is if the downside is addressed by the bandwidth proposal, and, to the point of this thread, if it introduces other downsides that could have unintended effects on overall gameplay.
Now, I'm of the opinion that bandwidth is a good thing and that the downside of spamming equipment as an effective strategy for a team, and farming WP for the individual, is far larger than any potential downsides of bandwidth.
However, I suppose we shall see. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
5325
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
The second thing that would help is if Logi had a way to tell specific equipment to self-destruct in order to free up bandwidth when the first piece of equipment they dropped is still serving an important purpose and they don't want to lose it.
I mean something a little more convenient than standing on one of their Nano Hives and tossing grenades to expend the nanites.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
163
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 16:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. Need an amarr proto logi to be able to put down a variety of links which wont get scanned or discovered so easily so my team can flank from varying directions
2. Amarr proto link fit puts me back 250k per suit, using this for pubs already puts me in the red after i die once
3. Im getting punished for trying to help the team, if i use a lower logi suit the links i can put on it will be less useful in spawn time, equip db meaning they will get eliminated more quickly, less links put down which means less directions to attack from
4. Amarr logi will not be able to put enough links down for a 5pt skirm
5. It forces me to only play as a logi, i could use other logi suits such as Gal/Minmatar and only have to put down a couple of things, with Amarr the bonus is for links but also i cannot change to match the situations ie going AV in a sentinal to kill a HAV or just playing with knifes for fun
Yes,m if you want to play the role of a logi now, you actually have TO BE A LOGI! THE HORROR!
1. I can play assault and switch to sentinal to do something else and i am not punished, Why should i be punished for switching for a different situation? |
RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix
784
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 16:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:RayRay James wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. Need an amarr proto logi to be able to put down a variety of links which wont get scanned or discovered so easily so my team can flank from varying directions
2. Amarr proto link fit puts me back 250k per suit, using this for pubs already puts me in the red after i die once
3. Im getting punished for trying to help the team, if i use a lower logi suit the links i can put on it will be less useful in spawn time, equip db meaning they will get eliminated more quickly, less links put down which means less directions to attack from
4. Amarr logi will not be able to put enough links down for a 5pt skirm
5. It forces me to only play as a logi, i could use other logi suits such as Gal/Minmatar and only have to put down a couple of things, with Amarr the bonus is for links but also i cannot change to match the situations ie going AV in a sentinal to kill a HAV or just playing with knifes for fun
Yes,m if you want to play the role of a logi now, you actually have TO BE A LOGI! THE HORROR! 1. I can play assault and switch to sentinal to do something else and i am not punished, Why should i be punished for switching for a different situation?
Because previously, you could single handedly spam a point with hives and links, run to a supply depot and switch to a sentinel then go back to the point with yout free ammo and armor reps and wp from people spawning.
If a logi does that for you, great. If you do that yourself, not great.
That's what bandwidth is changing. |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
15475
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:The second thing that would help is if Logi had a way to tell specific equipment to self-destruct in order to free up bandwidth when the first piece of equipment they dropped is still serving an important purpose and they don't want to lose it.
I mean something a little more convenient than standing on one of their Nano Hives and tossing grenades to expend the nanites.
The only easy way would be to let you shoot it with a gun. You could possibly have an option to select and destroy it from the mini map, but then youd need a way to tell which one is yours. I dont think it would be too hard in concept, but considering dust is still running on a skeleton crew it may not be as viable in the short term
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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Dauth Jenkins
Titans of Phoenix
591
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:RayRay James wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. Need an amarr proto logi to be able to put down a variety of links which wont get scanned or discovered so easily so my team can flank from varying directions
2. Amarr proto link fit puts me back 250k per suit, using this for pubs already puts me in the red after i die once
3. Im getting punished for trying to help the team, if i use a lower logi suit the links i can put on it will be less useful in spawn time, equip db meaning they will get eliminated more quickly, less links put down which means less directions to attack from
4. Amarr logi will not be able to put enough links down for a 5pt skirm
5. It forces me to only play as a logi, i could use other logi suits such as Gal/Minmatar and only have to put down a couple of things, with Amarr the bonus is for links but also i cannot change to match the situations ie going AV in a sentinal to kill a HAV or just playing with knifes for fun
Yes,m if you want to play the role of a logi now, you actually have TO BE A LOGI! THE HORROR! 1. I can play assault and switch to sentinal to do something else and i am not punished, Why should i be punished for switching for a different situation?
actually... you are. When switching from assault to sentinel you lose the mobility in exchage for EHP, when you switch from scout to assault you lose mobility and EWAR, and when you switch from Logi to assault, you lose your equipment bonuses. Some people dont like doing anything but scouting because they dont want to lose those EWAR bonus, and others dont like playing anything but heavy because they like having the Health to tank a firefight. If your playing a logi, you should want to be a logi. right now (pre-1.10) being a dedicated logi is no different than dabbling in logi. Post 1.10, dedicated logis will be much more usefull to the squad, bringing bonuses to the battle that dabblers cant hope to match
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
323
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Posted - 2014.12.05 16:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Why do you all seem to act like after your equipment dies, you can't put down more?
Ive explained it several different times. But people either dont want to read what im saying, or dont even want to understand where im coming from because they already have their minds and biases made up.
You have to factor in cost. Right now, my "Front line" fit, an ADV Amarr logi that can deploy 4 uplinks and 3 remotes costs about 15-20,000 ISK. This is the fitting i use the most as its deployed at the start of every game, and used to maintain the 3 uplinks I set out.(the 4th is a spare that sometimes isnt used). Its the suit I lose the most. i dont mind losing it though because how i lose it (Pushing for my team) is an acceptable loss and still leads to a profit.
Now that ADV suit, just putting out the links with their RE cover leaves me with 7 bandwidth. Thats leaves me enough room for 3 proxy explosives OR 1 triage nanohive. So now im going to have to diminish one role to reinforce the other. Do I leave my uplinks unprotected so that I can drop a few more proxies or a second triage nanohive?
So that leaves me two options: Continue to use the ADV suit i can afford, although with a much reduced effective role, or start using a proto suit i cant afford to maintain the same level of efficiency for my team.
And why do i have to go through these changes? Because people said "Spam!". Ok, lets look at whats possible now. 1 Proto-Caldari logi in a squad can drop up to NINE nanohives around a supply depot or objective, then switch to a rep fit. A squad of 6 proto scouts or assaults can each drop anywhere from 1-4 pieces of equipment. How easy is it to switch to a proto assault at a supply depot that has proto hives with 3 active, deploy them, and switch back to proto assault with a scanner or needle. A squad of 6 proto assaults with those 3 active hive deployables = 18 pieces of equipment that can be dropped around a depot or objective.
TL;DR: Reduces role, raises costs, doesnt actually fix the problem. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides Learning Alliance
5337
|
Posted - 2014.12.05 16:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:The second thing that would help is if Logi had a way to tell specific equipment to self-destruct in order to free up bandwidth when the first piece of equipment they dropped is still serving an important purpose and they don't want to lose it.
I mean something a little more convenient than standing on one of their Nano Hives and tossing grenades to expend the nanites. The only easy way would be to let you shoot it with a gun. You could possibly have an option to select and destroy it from the mini map, but then youd need a way to tell which one is yours. I dont think it would be too hard in concept, but considering dust is still running on a skeleton crew it may not be as viable in the short term I was thinking have your own equipment show as a different color on the map, and be able to select your equipment and deactivate it using an option in the Squad Orders menu (on the map, or with R2+R3).
If you were a Squad Leader the destroy equipment would just be another option when you bring up the Squad Orders menu. If you are not a Squad Leader it would be the only option.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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