DUST Search - "Light AV"

Bojo The Mighty wrote:

So I figured it was a bit ridiculous I didn't have my hands on a decent AV light weapon. The last time I was skilled in swarms was before Uprising. So I skill up to the CBR7 and used it quite a bit over the next games seeing as how HAVs are always around and ADS are a nuisance. On a side note I also have EXO-AV nades, proto REs and PEs, and standard plasma cannons so I pretty much am able to use any means of AV available to a medium frame or light frame.

What I have noticed, time and time again is that swarms, PLCs and AV nades are really terrible at taking a vehicle out top to bottom. Not complaining, merely stating. I've been in scenarios where there was maybe one or two other swarmers on a vehicle, usually HAV, and just not register the fatality.

Some weird things as well: It took me 3 volleys from CBR 7 took out a Gunnloggi with maybe 65% armor left but full shields but meanwhile it took 3 volleys to also take out a full HP Onikuma...both scenarios were alone. I just find that weird personally. Meanwhile armor vehicles particularly the Incubus and Madrugar seem pretty infallible to the swarm. Just keep pumping damage they keep pumping the reps.

So I find that Light AV is primarily effective against LAVs and ***** shields. That may be contrary to numbers but it just seems that Light AV is far outdone by armor reps for it to be effective against armor tanks, especially since armor vehicles also tend to be fit with nitro and afterburners.....

Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.

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Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5180	Posted - 2014.12.04 05:07:00 - [1] - Quote So I figured it was a bit ridiculous I didn't have my hands on a decent AV light weapon. The last time I was skilled in swarms was before Uprising. So I skill up to the CBR7 and used it quite a bit over the next games seeing as how HAVs are always around and ADS are a nuisance. On a side note I also have EXO-AV nades, proto REs and PEs, and standard plasma cannons so I pretty much am able to use any means of AV available to a medium frame or light frame. What I have noticed, time and time again is that swarms, PLCs and AV nades are really terrible at taking a vehicle out top to bottom. Not complaining, merely stating. I've been in scenarios where there was maybe one or two other swarmers on a vehicle, usually HAV, and just not register the fatality. Some weird things as well: It took me 3 volleys from CBR 7 took out a Gunnloggi with maybe 65% armor left but full shields but meanwhile it took 3 volleys to also take out a full HP Onikuma...both scenarios were alone. I just find that weird personally. Meanwhile armor vehicles particularly the Incubus and Madrugar seem pretty infallible to the swarm. Just keep pumping damage they keep pumping the reps. So I find that Light AV is primarily effective against LAVs and ***** shields. That may be contrary to numbers but it just seems that Light AV is far outdone by armor reps for it to be effective against armor tanks, especially since armor vehicles also tend to be fit with nitro and afterburners..... However, maybe I would prefer it if swarms and PLCs didn't finish vehicles off too easily. I make vehicles run away and everytime I do it's pretty much +75 WP; the gift that keeps trying to come back to fight but ends up getting a sack tap every time they do and coughs up money. So I mean I could care less if Swarms killed the ADS in the sky, because I keep getting WP if the vehicle is alive. I'm not farming....I'm merely whacking the tree and making apples fall off. So what are people's opinion of Light AV options and do you desire the kill more or the damage? Also, how do high Alpha DAM weapons like forge guns compare in results to lesser alpha higher rate of fire(?): A PLC and Swarm will have dealt more volleys by the time a forge gun gets two shots off but the light AV loses a significant surprise factor. I personally am enjoying the state of Light AV but I can't say I'm leaving a trail of wreckage in my wake. More like the lost air fresheners and side mirrors of the vehicles I have shaken. Last thing, I do feel like both PLC and Swarm are extremely limiting. Take up a hunk of fit space and the Swarms does zero effect on infantry and the PLC is just really outranged and not to easy to use on a mobile vehicle. Is that acceptable for the level of effectiveness they have? TLDR: I get a lot of WP from swarms, PLC, AV nades, etc. but at the end of the day they are super limited weapons that rarely scrape the kill and I'm kind of fine with that..... Bojo For CPM
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4875	Posted - 2014.12.04 05:20:00 - [2] - Quote Plasma Cannons are great, I don't know what you're talking about. ESPECIALLY on a Gunnlogi. They will never take out a heavy-repping vehicle, though.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5180	Posted - 2014.12.04 05:26:00 - [3] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Plasma Cannons are great, I don't know what you're talking about. ESPECIALLY on a Gunnlogi. They will never take out a heavy-repping vehicle, though. I only got standard and as soon as the vehicle is like 50 meters away it gets harder to hit and then you're talking about zero application and loss of ammo. Bojo For CPM
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game RUST415 857	Posted - 2014.12.04 05:46:00 - [4] - Quote I use cbr7's on a minmando. It normally takes about 4 volleys to drop a gunlogi. I will kill all lavs except those moving at top speed with two volleys. Yes I want the kill but I'm happy to force them to run off. Forge guns due to there inaccurate fire in the wrong hands should team up with a swarmer. Its very difficult to land several shots on a drop ship with a forge. So the swarmer helps to ensure the kill. What can I say me and absollom love seeing half a mill fall from the sky. Edit to add. A shield hardnered lab once took three volleys.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5183	Posted - 2014.12.04 06:05:00 - [5] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: I use cbr7's on a minmando. It normally takes about 4 volleys to drop a gunlogi. I will kill all lavs except those moving at top speed with two volleys. Yes I want the kill but I'm happy to force them to run off. Forge guns due to there inaccurate fire in the wrong hands should team up with a swarmer. Its very difficult to land several shots on a drop ship with a forge. So the swarmer helps to ensure the kill. What can I say me and absollom love seeing half a mill fall from the sky. Edit to add. A shield hardnered lab once took three volleys. OK, must be cool to have that damage buff to them Question: On any other suit, does the level of damage, rate of fire, and range justify the limitations of swarms: limited purely to vehicles within the 150 meter lock on range the CPU/PG the lock on time and range slow reload, short clip And same for the PLC: Does the damage, free-fire mode, and rate of fire justify it's one shot clip, slow travel time, and overall lack of essential range? I think the swarm is pretty fine at poking away vehicles but it's overall a burdensome weapon because it's slow to reload, has to lock on and within 150 meters and not to mention volleys are lost to obstruction (so basically the whole process took too long). Not bitching at the current strength of the weapon, I'm just questioning if the limitations are justified by it's level of strength. Bojo For CPM
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 193	Posted - 2014.12.04 06:42:00 - [6] - Quote I'll chime in as someone who used both the PLC and Swarms and used to use Forges- the only real reason I spec'd out of Forges and picked swarms instead was because it gave me a little more SP to dump into Scrambler Rifles so that I could get Prof 4 and, more importantly, Fitting Optimization 4. But enough about my SP investment choices. So, with the PLC, I feel like it's in a really good place right now, and any issue with it's ability has more to do with the balance between different vehicles- most especially how the Soma/Madrugar is ass and 99% of the things it can do are done either equally well or more likely better by the Sica/Gunnlogi. For the record, I don't personally know, but True Adamance, the famous Amarrian tanker, has made numerous comments and several threads about this situation, and I am inclined to believe him. PLCs are also potentially usable on almost every suit in the game- obviously a Sentinel isn't going to care for it because of FGs, but everyone else will take interest in it. They will also probably lose interest as the intense CPU requirement brings quite the headache to some fittings, and the relatively higher skillcap it has can be bothersome to those who are newly interested in it. However, in skilled hands it is quite capable. There were some impressive "Cannoneers" before the PLC got buffed- check out XxGhazbaranxX's youtube channel for some impressive PLC action, though most of it is pre-buff. For Swarms, it's my opinion that they are best deployed on one of three platforms: 1) Scouts with a cloak. You get the EWAR and invisibility to stay alive, as well as a grenade slot for Flux (anti-Gunnlogi mostly) or AV (for everything else) nades. You also get some impressive sprint speed and endurance for chasing down a pesky tank- an LAV is too fast for anybody to catch, and dropships tend to run away as soon as you fire on them (which, as a dropship pilot, is usually the smart thing to do). 2) Commandos; here, you have some HP, but more importantly, you get a backup light weapon- mostly this is ends up being a rifle, but if you're creative (or crazy) it might be, say, a PLC. Perhaps even more significantly- and especially if you run something really crazy like double Swarms or double PLC- is the reload bonus. It's still incredibly useful for combining the PLC and Swarms- in fact, a low and slow flying dropship is almost the ideal target for such a loadout. That and Somas/Madrugars, though the armor HAVs end up being a perfect target for most AV weapons TBH. 3) the Amarr Logi. Pretty much, it comes down to the ease with which you can combine REs, Proxies, and Swarms- or a PLC if you are so inclined. Unfortunately, the lack of raw HP, as well as a lack of compensation via EWAR and/or mobility, makes this sort of a subpar choice. It could work really well... if Logis were better. Or if Proxies were better. Mostly what makes this possible is the AmLogi sidearm slot. I haven't really experimented too much with this, so I'll refrain from further comments. So, to address this: Bojo The Mighty wrote: [...] Question: On any other suit, does the level of damage, rate of fire, and range justify the limitations of swarms: limited purely to vehicles within the 150 meter lock on range the CPU/PG the lock on time and range slow reload, short clip [...] In general, I consider lock range to be usable- it was quite frankly OP to a ridiculous degree that a single swarm user could basically deny a hemispherical zone ~400 meters in radius to almost any vehicle that deployed to the field. This was especially a problem on Manus Peak, and IMO is still an issue even some maps (mostly Line Harvest, again IMO). As far as CPU/PG, Swarms do not take up very much fitting space- on the Commando it can be tricky, due to a lack of fitting space in general, but I so far haven't found any issue trying to squeeze advanced swarms and an advanced ScR onto the Commando A/1-Series (Amarr ADV Commando). I've also got a (quite entertaining) fit for the Commando A-I that uses a PLC+Swarms, though both weapons are standard level. It's a little tight on CPU, but that's more to with the PLC's unusual fitting requirements. I already touched on lock range, and IMO lock times are quite decent. If anything, I'd almost say lock times need to be longer- but that comes more from being on the receiving end as a wannabe derpship pilot. Reload time I don't find to be an issue, but at present I exclusively deploy swarms on a Commando, so it could just be some kind of confirmation bias. Bojo The Mighty wrote: [...] And same for the PLC: Does the damage, free-fire mode, and rate of fire justify it's one shot clip, slow travel time, and overall lack of essential range? I've already touched on the PLC a bit, and I personally think the weapon is quite capable. About the only thing I would change is the addition of an Assault variant; much lower direct and slightly lower splash damage, a 3 shot "clip", a heavier drop, and larger splash radius- basically a sort of big, plasma-based MD. As far as range goes... I think the main issue is just that the projectile travels relatively slow and has an arc. The problem is that that arc is quite useful for hitting things behind cover (hence the note about a more noticeable arc on an Assault variant), but that that mostly applies when firing on infantry, and not vehicles. If I'm honest though... the "free-fire" function is what makes the PLC so awesome to use. That moment when you blap a heavy who's (very stupidly) decided to charge straight at you... priceless. It's nearly as awesome as carrying a PLC and Swarms, and then being attacked by a NK scout who you then proceed to punch to death. Yes, I really did experience that awesome moment, and yes, it really was as glorious as it sounds. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game RUST415 857	Posted - 2014.12.04 08:45:00 - [7] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: boba's fetta wrote: I use cbr7's on a minmando. It normally takes about 4 volleys to drop a gunlogi. I will kill all lavs except those moving at top speed with two volleys. Yes I want the kill but I'm happy to force them to run off. Forge guns due to there inaccurate fire in the wrong hands should team up with a swarmer. Its very difficult to land several shots on a drop ship with a forge. So the swarmer helps to ensure the kill. What can I say me and absollom love seeing half a mill fall from the sky. Edit to add. A shield hardnered lab once took three volleys. OK, must be cool to have that damage buff to them Question: On any other suit, does the level of damage, rate of fire, and range justify the limitations of swarms: limited purely to vehicles within the 150 meter lock on range the CPU/PG the lock on time and range slow reload, short clip And same for the PLC: Does the damage, free-fire mode, and rate of fire justify it's one shot clip, slow travel time, and overall lack of essential range? I think the swarm is pretty fine at poking away vehicles but it's overall a burdensome weapon because it's slow to reload, has to lock on and within 150 meters and not to mention volleys are lost to obstruction (so basically the whole process took too long). Not bitching at the current strength of the weapon, I'm just questioning if the limitations are justified by it's level of strength. The extra damage is very nice. I can't comment on other suits I don't use swarms on them. Because of the lack of a primary to deal with infantry. I also belive swarms were balanced with the minmando in mind. I should also add I'm prof 4 rapid reload 4. With proto mando skills. That reload wow. On my proto mando I use specialist swarm. (From the market) for pg reasons. (This fit has been used twice I don't see the point in pubs for it) Also I don't use a plc I find it inpractical.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 29	Posted - 2014.12.04 09:48:00 - [8] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: So I figured it was a bit ridiculous I didn't have my hands on a decent AV light weapon. The last time I was skilled in swarms was before Uprising. So I skill up to the CBR7 and used it quite a bit over the next games seeing as how HAVs are always around and ADS are a nuisance. On a side note I also have EXO-AV nades, proto REs and PEs, and standard plasma cannons so I pretty much am able to use any means of AV available to a medium frame or light frame. What I have noticed, time and time again is that swarms, PLCs and AV nades are really terrible at taking a vehicle out top to bottom. Not complaining, merely stating. I've been in scenarios where there was maybe one or two other swarmers on a vehicle, usually HAV, and just not register the fatality. Some weird things as well: It took me 3 volleys from CBR 7 took out a Gunnloggi with maybe 65% armor left but full shields but meanwhile it took 3 volleys to also take out a full HP Onikuma...both scenarios were alone. I just find that weird personally. Meanwhile armor vehicles particularly the Incubus and Madrugar seem pretty infallible to the swarm. Just keep pumping damage they keep pumping the reps. So I find that Light AV is primarily effective against LAVs and ***** shields. That may be contrary to numbers but it just seems that Light AV is far outdone by armor reps for it to be effective against armor tanks, especially since armor vehicles also tend to be fit with nitro and afterburners..... I have lost many incubus's to swarms, but no pythons. I have lost high rep ( about 270p/s rep ) and super tanked ones with 4200 armour and a shield booster. They get destroyed. All my shield vehicles fare much better. Activate a shield hardener and standard swarms can't touch me. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1343	Posted - 2014.12.04 10:23:00 - [9] - Quote I guess to answer your question, for me the WP is nice but I want to kill all vehicles. I did it when I got little to no WP and I'll do it with WP. Because of this I really dislike my teammates using swarms to drive vehicles off. You can get a lock as soon as the vehicle is in range and fire but this just drives it away. I want it dead, so I wait until it is on top of me, or better yet, I go where they think they are safe and get on top of it. Usually other teammates playing AV just make my job harder. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1343	Posted - 2014.12.04 10:26:00 - [10] - Quote Oh, and shield vehicles are definitely tougher. Pythons are still hard to kill, and Gunloggis sometimes just shrug off a swarm attack. Both can be driven off though and you can solo them if you play smarter than they do. Because, that's why.



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