DUST Search - Uprising 1.10 and the Omni Soldier

John Demonsbane wrote:

Dubya Guy wrote:

el OPERATOR wrote:

Sounds like you should've pulled your repper out of fatty's boo-tay and done your job (Logistics) instead of watching him do it for you.

I appreciate your sense of humor. Lol

Yes, repping this fellow was definitely not helpful in these battles, but it was a learning experience for me, and the outcomes of the battles were never really in doubt (out of courtesy, I won't mention the opposing faction Shocked

). I am sad to say that the links and hives he placed were not helpful either except in that they may have moved the squad a bit closer to a warbage strike. Some might call them "spam" since they were not placed with much care for cover or orientation and were sometimes stacked. I assume you are not implying that it is a Logi's job to spam equipment.

Yes, you are right. In any other situation, I would have abandoned this pseudo-heavy and found a combat-hungry warrior who could benefit from my meager skills. But this behavior from such an obviously skilled player had me fascinated.

And that's the problem right there. The underlined section. That right there is 100% pure unadulterated WP wh0ring spam. He didn't do that to be an omnisoldier. He did it to get some cheap WP abusing the current mechanics. This is done by tons of vets, he is not unique. And it's exaclty why we need bandwidth.

The other part, with the AV and the HMG's and the other stuff, that's omnisolider, and he can keep doing it post-1.10. But at the same time, you will get your links used, the ones you placed with care, and get the WP you deserve for taking the time to do it properly and dedicating yourself to support. You earned it, he didn't.

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Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 57	Posted - 2014.12.03 18:47:00 - [1] - Quote OK, so I was playing a quick couple of Minmatar factionals yesterday after work (who wasnGÇÖt?) and I found myself in a squad that lacked a heavy or even an armored assault. Bummer for a reppin' Minmaniac like me, right? So I toss an invite into one of my favorite channels for Heavies and LogiGÇÖs to find each other (you know the one) and we get a heavy on board. GÇ£Whoohoo!GÇ¥ I say. Turns out heGÇÖs got skill. HeGÇÖs really good. An Uber-warrior, Omni-soldier sorta guy. Heck, he didnGÇÖt need to be in my squad. He could have saved the day all by himself. No sarcasm here. He really was good and had obviously skilled into multiple roles. But something he did kinda caught my attention because, believe it or not, the people I run with usually donGÇÖt do this stuff although I know for a fact they have the skills to do so. Any time we got near a supply depot, he would run over, switch to a logi suit with tons of links, and start running around the neighborhood and dropping them all around. HeGÇÖd then return to the depot and get a triple set of hives and repeat. On two occasions, he then swapped out to what appeared to be a dedicated AV suit and took out a couple of LAVs. Then he would come back and swap into his HMG/Bolt Pistol Heavy and start sprinting to the next location. Impressive solo play. Lots of points from that equipment, and a few good kills. During the two battles, I think there was only one time that he was engaged in a meaningful fire fight where my rep tool and proto skills made a difference. I did lay a couple of uplinks out at the beginning of each battle and they got me a few points. Instead of waiting for my dropped hives to activate, he just sprinted on to the nearest depot. In short, he didnGÇÖt need me or anyone else for that matter. Good for him. So was I disappointed? To be honest, yes. I am a specialist, my specialty wasn't needed, and I didn't want to "follow suit" and switch too. Rather than a generalist, he was being a MULTI-specialist. The game as it is designed (pre- 1.10) allows and even encourages, players to be MULTI-specialists. In my opinion, this flattens out the game and removes a level of teamwork. Some folks like that kind of game and strive to be the best at everything...all the time. I understand that, but I think that there are other games out there that do the Omni-soldier FPS thing better. I love Dust 514 because it seems GÇ£richerGÇ¥ than that and I get the impression CCP GÇ£wantsGÇ¥ to encourage players to have a persona or role that lasts most of the battle and to some extent to rely on collaborative play with others in different roles. The new Bandwidth changes in 1.10 will eliminate some of the above style of gameplay. A Logi will still be able to drop lots of gear, but they certainly canGÇÖt switch to a Heavy suit afterwards and continue to obtain benefits from it. They could easily start out a battle as a Heavy, Assault, or Scout, and then evolve into a Logi, but the reverse path is downgraded, so bouncing back and forth wonGÇÖt be useful. The heavy still could switch between HMG/Bolt and dedicated AV modes without worries except that the 1.10 Supply Depot change has him inherit his shield/armor depletion status when switching, discouraging him from doing so in the middle of a firefight. Not sure how much of a disincentive that is, though. So, with 1.10 we may see fewer Omni-soldiers in battles. I remain curious to see if there will be a one-directional evolution of roles throughout the course of a battle, with more logi suits at the end than there were at the beginning as the former Omni-soldiers still try to milk a few more points after the battle is mostly over. I wonder if CCP keeps stats on such things. Any other ways in which the Omni-soldier or Uber-warrior will be affected by 1.10? FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2416	Posted - 2014.12.03 18:56:00 - [2] - Quote To be honest, I think we'll still see lots of "omni-soldires" in 1.10 battles -- just not so many who use (abuse?) supply depots to spam equipment. Said a bit differently, your ability to be an omni-soldier lies more in having lots of SP rather than through using supply depots to spam equipment.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 581	Posted - 2014.12.03 19:50:00 - [3] - Quote Sounds like you should've pulled your repper out of fatty's boo-tay and done your job (Logistics) instead of watching him do it for you. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2269	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:00:00 - [4] - Quote I will do this in any match where my team seems to matter. I will not waist my time or ISK ever again to try and solo win a battle. The reason a lot of clones do not do this is because their teammates suck. Call me harsh but I am done trying to win matches where my side refuses to do anything. Can the other voices in other peoples minds hear my voices in my head????
Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 81	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:14:00 - [5] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: Any time we got near a supply depot, he would run over, switch to a logi suit with tons of links, and start running around the neighborhood and dropping them all around. HeGÇÖd then return to the depot and get a triple set of hives and repeat. On two occasions, he then swapped out to what appeared to be a dedicated AV suit and took out a couple of LAVs. Then he would come back and swap into his HMG/Bolt Pistol Heavy and start sprinting to the next location. It is because of individuals like this CCP created the Bandwidth changes. Im on the fence about BW and will see how it effects my game play, before I QQ about it. Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 60	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:41:00 - [6] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: To be honest, I think we'll still see lots of "omni-soldires" in 1.10 battles -- just not so many who use (abuse?) supply depots to spam equipment. Said a bit differently, your ability to be an omni-soldier lies more in having lots of SP (and the skill to make those suits/roles effective) rather than in using supply depots to spam equipment. So, I disagree, respectfully, with your premise. Respect appreciated and reciprocated. I can't help but think that players with a ton of SP and proto-capable in multiple roles, will be at least marginally less inclined to switch roles as often in a battle as they do now. It may make game play less enjoyable for them because they will feel like they do not have as large and diverse of an impact on the whole battlefield as they do now. While understandable, it will be unfortunate if they are less satisfied with Dust and cannot adjust expectations. As highly skilled players in multiple roles, they have much to teach and share with scrubs like me. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 63	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:58:00 - [7] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Sounds like you should've pulled your repper out of fatty's boo-tay and done your job (Logistics) instead of watching him do it for you. I appreciate your sense of humor. Yes, repping this fellow was definitely not helpful in these battles, but it was a learning experience for me, and the outcomes of the battles were never really in doubt (out of courtesy, I won't mention the opposing faction ). I am sad to say that the links and hives he placed were not helpful either except in that they may have moved the squad a bit closer to a warbage strike. Some might call them "spam" since they were not placed with much care for cover or orientation and were sometimes stacked. I assume you are not implying that it is a Logi's job to spam equipment. Yes, you are right. In any other situation, I would have abandoned this pseudo-heavy and found a combat-hungry warrior who could benefit from my meager skills. But this behavior from such an obviously skilled player had me fascinated. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10390	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:17:00 - [8] - Quote Thankfully I never relied so heavily on my equipment. Pre-1.10, my scout usually carries 2 equipment items. Either a combo of ADV Drop Uplinks and STD Proximity Explosives or a combo of STD Drop Uplinks and STD Cloak when using my Federation 'Serpent' Scout which I earned running Gallente FW. Even then, I still don't rely on them for WPs. I get the majority of my WPs from killing and hacking. And since I'm now cross training into Gallente Logistics, I stagger 3x ADV Active Scanners for farming Intel Assists while I wreck people with my BAR. Even if I later cross train into Uplink- & Nanohive-oriented Logis, the BW limit will only make me more important while I find strategic locations to deploy my equipment. You'd be amazed of the places you can find that can be easy to reach but not easily guessed. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 585	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:18:00 - [9] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Sounds like you should've pulled your repper out of fatty's boo-tay and done your job (Logistics) instead of watching him do it for you. I appreciate your sense of humor. Yes, repping this fellow was definitely not helpful in these battles, but it was a learning experience for me, and the outcomes of the battles were never really in doubt (out of courtesy, I won't mention the opposing faction ). I am sad to say that the links and hives he placed were not helpful either except in that they may have moved the squad a bit closer to a warbage strike. Some might call them "spam" since they were not placed with much care for cover or orientation and were sometimes stacked. I assume you are not implying that it is a Logi's job to spam equipment. And I guess thats where opinions about what exactly constitutes spam and what is actual worthwhile position creation/reinforcement begin to differ. Its not your job to "spam". It is in the context of your classrole, however, to do exactly as you watched him do, reinforce a position with uplinks and hives for those who spawn, albeit not neccessarily how you watched him do it (carelessly). Those links and hives may have never been used in that match HOWEVER since you and he were obviously not staying to guard that point, had it been taken, your team by virtue of his foresight could have addressed the attack much faster and easier had your team no reinforcment on that location. Same can be said for every minefield. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 64	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:24:00 - [10] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Those links and hives may have never been used in that match HOWEVER since you and he were obviously not staying to guard that point, had it been taken, your team by virtue of his foresight could have addressed the attack much faster and easier had your team no reinforcment on that location. Same can be said for every minefield. I have much to learn in my craft and I sincerely appreciate your contribution to my education. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 587	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:42:00 - [11] - Quote Um, No Problem, Anytime? o7 awkward..... Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6082	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:45:00 - [12] - Quote I figured out recently that this is the best way to NOT depend on anyone and be ''semi inmune'' to nerfs. Play one of each. Here its me: Min Sent + Commando Gal Logi CAl Assault/Amarr assault Amarr scout Play it all, do it all...f* blue dots... Amarrian Born. State Patriot.**
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1338	Posted - 2014.12.03 21:46:00 - [13] - Quote Yep, the SD spam is the problem. BW doesn't address the problem so much as introduce other problems. They should just remove the ability to switch suits at the SD. Because, that's why.
CrotchGrab 360 Yon Hyaku Nijuu Moyase 1608	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:11:00 - [14] - Quote yup. if im on my main (this account) i always drop 4 uplinks before switching to whatever suit im going to use if they disappear i switch back and redeploy. DUST VIDEOS
Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix 449	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:13:00 - [15] - Quote There is more to playing multiple roles than spamming equipment at a supply depot. I'm not really concerned. The only thing that is a shame is that my scout uplink+RE deployment strategy has to go again. I used to do this back in Chrome, then with uprising EWAR changes (1.4 i think) I needed an active scanner, so REs went out the window. I brought them back in 1.8 as passive scanning replaced my active scanner. Now in 1.10 I won't have the bandwidth to deploy REs with uplinks set, so I suspect I won't use them much.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10390	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:17:00 - [16] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Yep, the SD spam is the problem. BW doesn't address the problem so much as introduce other problems. They should just remove the ability to switch suits at the SD. Actually, no. That's a terrible idea. What if I need to swap out to an AV suit when no one else has it ready on hand? Do I then have to suicide myself to switch suits? What if we're low on clone count and one suicide clone makes the difference between victory and defeat? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4805	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:19:00 - [17] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Sounds like you should've pulled your repper out of fatty's boo-tay and done your job (Logistics) instead of watching him do it for you. I appreciate your sense of humor. Yes, repping this fellow was definitely not helpful in these battles, but it was a learning experience for me, and the outcomes of the battles were never really in doubt (out of courtesy, I won't mention the opposing faction ). I am sad to say that the links and hives he placed were not helpful either except in that they may have moved the squad a bit closer to a warbage strike. Some might call them "spam" since they were not placed with much care for cover or orientation and were sometimes stacked. I assume you are not implying that it is a Logi's job to spam equipment. Yes, you are right. In any other situation, I would have abandoned this pseudo-heavy and found a combat-hungry warrior who could benefit from my meager skills. But this behavior from such an obviously skilled player had me fascinated. And that's the problem right there. The underlined section. That right there is 100% pure unadulterated WP wh0ring spam. He didn't do that to be an omnisoldier. He did it to get some cheap WP abusing the current mechanics. This is done by tons of vets, he is not unique. And it's exaclty why we need bandwidth. The other part, with the AV and the HMG's and the other stuff, that's omnisolider, and he can keep doing it post-1.10. But at the same time, you will get your links used, the ones you placed with care, and get the WP you deserve for taking the time to do it properly and dedicating yourself to support. You earned it, he didn't. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1360	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:27:00 - [18] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Yep, the SD spam is the problem. BW doesn't address the problem so much as introduce other problems. They should just remove the ability to switch suits at the SD. How would logistics users refill their deployables? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10391	Posted - 2014.12.03 22:34:00 - [19] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Dubya Guy wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Sounds like you should've pulled your repper out of fatty's boo-tay and done your job (Logistics) instead of watching him do it for you. I appreciate your sense of humor. Yes, repping this fellow was definitely not helpful in these battles, but it was a learning experience for me, and the outcomes of the battles were never really in doubt (out of courtesy, I won't mention the opposing faction ). I am sad to say that the links and hives he placed were not helpful either except in that they may have moved the squad a bit closer to a warbage strike. Some might call them "spam" since they were not placed with much care for cover or orientation and were sometimes stacked. I assume you are not implying that it is a Logi's job to spam equipment. Yes, you are right. In any other situation, I would have abandoned this pseudo-heavy and found a combat-hungry warrior who could benefit from my meager skills. But this behavior from such an obviously skilled player had me fascinated. And that's the problem right there. The underlined section. That right there is 100% pure unadulterated WP wh0ring spam. He didn't do that to be an omnisoldier. He did it to get some cheap WP abusing the current mechanics. This is done by tons of vets, he is not unique. And it's exaclty why we need bandwidth. The other part, with the AV and the HMG's and the other stuff, that's omnisolider, and he can keep doing it post-1.10. But at the same time, you will get your links used, the ones you placed with care, and get the WP you deserve for taking the time to do it properly and dedicating yourself to support. You earned it, he didn't. I agree. That's just too much. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Dauth Jenkins Titans of Phoenix 572	Posted - 2014.12.04 02:28:00 - [20] - Quote Looks like my Assault mass driver will be getting less work post 1.10. i only ever used it to clear equpment spammed areas... and kill the occasional militia suit. -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando

Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 68	Posted - 2014.12.04 12:56:00 - [21] - Quote Meee One wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Yep, the SD spam is the problem. BW doesn't address the problem so much as introduce other problems. They should just remove the ability to switch suits at the SD. How would logistics users refill their deployables? Rather than completely remove ability to switch at depot, impose a cost to switching. Lose the suit and/or clone. Also, increase number of equipment carried (but not deployed), adjusted by Logi suit proficiency. This would still allow switching, but make the decision to do so more strategic. And yes, if you were down to a few clones and the other side had a HAV and yours had no AV...you'd have to use tactics other than a swarm launcher to win. But I'm beating a dead horse. That option was not selected, and we have Bandwidth and there's no going back. Here's to hoping there are fewer unexpected side effects than some expect I, myself, will probably start running a speed scout early in the match, then switch to Logi. No side effect to move in that direction, and the scout will probably have more survivability sprinting across the open spaces to get to objectives. Not quite "Omni-soldier", but using the options available to me to the fullest. I'll end each battle in a Logi suit by dropping all my gear in a pile and hoping to get a few misguided spawns and gun-firing celebratory hive points. This thread makes me reconsider being a dedicated Logi specialist. Sigh. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4819	Posted - 2014.12.04 14:20:00 - [22] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: Meee One wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Yep, the SD spam is the problem. BW doesn't address the problem so much as introduce other problems. They should just remove the ability to switch suits at the SD. How would logistics users refill their deployables? Rather than completely remove ability to switch at depot, impose a cost to switching. Lose the suit and/or clone. Also, increase number of equipment carried (but not deployed), adjusted by Logi suit proficiency. This would still allow switching, but make the decision to do so more strategic. And yes, if you were down to a few clones and the other side had a HAV and yours had no AV...you'd have to use tactics other than a swarm launcher to win. But I'm beating a dead horse. That option was not selected, and we have Bandwidth and there's no going back. Here's to hoping there are fewer unexpected side effects than some expect I, myself, will probably start running a speed scout early in the match, then switch to Logi. No side effect to move in that direction, and the scout will probably have more survivability sprinting across the open spaces to get to objectives. Not quite "Omni-soldier", but using the options available to me to the fullest. I'll end each battle in a Logi suit by dropping all my gear in a pile and hoping to get a few misguided spawns and gun-firing celebratory hive points. This thread makes me reconsider being a dedicated Logi specialist. Sigh. Started off well there, but that's an odd solution at the end. You could just try to maximize your efficiency. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 83	Posted - 2014.12.04 15:52:00 - [23] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: This thread makes me reconsider being a dedicated Logi specialist. Sigh. Don't psych yourself out yet. Since the BW thing is here, see how it effects your particular game play. Since your not a WP ***** and spam equipment all over it might not be as bad as everybody else thinks. Is it going to be tougher yes, are we going to have to pay more attention to our equipment, yes. I am a pessimist, and always look at the good. I am going to sit the fence and not let the negative attitudes of some change how I play and enjoy my game. When it is finally in place and I can actually work with it and see first hand what happens, then I will start QQing until then I wait. Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8510	Posted - 2014.12.04 16:45:00 - [24] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I figured out recently that this is the best way to NOT depend on anyone and be ''semi inmune'' to nerfs. Play one of each. Here its me: Min Sent + Commando Gal Logi CAl Assault/Amarr assault Amarr scout Play it all, do it all...f*** blue dots... Here's me: Min Assault Min Scout Min Commando Min Sentinel Min Logi I think I'm fairly safe from Nerfs. Only two problems would possibly be the Assault and Scout. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 68	Posted - 2014.12.04 16:59:00 - [25] - Quote Sorry "godfather" and Goo. I left my [:tongue-in-cheek:] emoticons off. No, I have no intention of changing my play style as a result of Bandwidth, even though many see single-roling as a weaker/shallower form of play. Many others will have to change their style. Some of whom (unlike the player described in the example) are actually NOT egregious spammers. My goal was to illustrate that while Bandwidth will address equipment spamming, it will have an unintended impact on role-switching... in a non-uniform fashion. Since deployable equipment (unlike weapons) has a persistent benefit to the player, there will be a new disincentive to switching OUT of equipment-deploying roles, but no (new) disincentive to switching IN to them. I am curious to see how this affects gameplay for those (unlike myself) who like to switch roles. Heavy->Assault->Scout->Logi or any lateral switches will still be seen as "smart", but the reverse will be "less smart". Note: I will always be "less smart" regardless of my role selection...I was just born that way. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.


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