| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1214
   |
Posted - 2014.12.02 02:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF.
Chocolate Juice
|
LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
984
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 02:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF.
Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings.
Quafe
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
|
loumanchew
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
186
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 03:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
agreed, it makes no sense to add turrets if you get 1 hit killed by red line tankers |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3705
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 03:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings.
You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
|
LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
991
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings. You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged.
True, but at least it opens some more fittings, like three boosters or three hardeners, or mix and match of two of those with something else.
Quafe
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1218
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings. You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged.
It's not even that, it's that if you want to put on small turrets you have to throw a lot of essential modules down the drain and settle for crappy ones.
Chocolate Juice
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15308
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Nerf Shield Tank Fitting Capacity so Sica cannot run full proto modules and so Shield HAV cannot armour tank!
Raise Armour tank Fitting Capacity so that it is then on par with Shield modules and then actually viable!
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15310
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings. You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged. It's not even that, it's that if you want to put on small turrets you have to throw a lot of essential modules down the drain and settle for crappy ones.
YOU CAN THOUGH any shield HAV can run full proto modules, turret, and small turrets RIGHT NOW!
Armour tanks cannot! And should shield tank forgo small turrets they can also Armour tank with is unacceptable.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1286
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
has the consideration been made that maybe a standard hav shouldnt be able to fit all proto mods and a weapon?
i understand theres no proto tank. but i think its appropriate that a standard tank has fitting difficulty with mods that rank much higher than the tank itself.
now as true adamance brought up the madrugar falls short of the gunnlogi.
a buff there to make it as usefull as the gunnlogi. or a gunnlogi nerf so it cant armor tank and be much better than the madrugar is fine. but i dont think all tanks need pg cpu buffs/
im not aware of fitting issues with lavs or dropships.
is that an issue? my memorys fuzzy and i dont know what theyre stats are nowadays.
i just used to use a lav with a railgun and fuel injectors and it was fine for me. and thats just basic or militia mods. but again its a basic lav.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15312
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:has the consideration been made that maybe a standard hav shouldnt be able to fit all proto mods and a weapon?
i understand theres no proto tank. but i think its appropriate that a standard tank has fitting difficulty with mods that rank much higher than the tank itself.
now as true adamance brought up the madrugar falls short of the gunnlogi.
a buff there to make it as usefull as the gunnlogi. or a gunnlogi nerf so it cant armor tank and be much better than the madrugar is fine. but i dont think all tanks need pg cpu buffs/
im not aware of fitting issues with lavs or dropships.
is that an issue? my memorys fuzzy and i dont know what theyre stats are nowadays.
i just used to use a lav with a railgun and fuel injectors and it was fine for me. and thats just basic or militia mods. but again its a basic lav.
There are actually a lot of things that need reconsidering for HAV currently.
1.) A Sica (MLT Tier HAV) can fit a full proto load out.
2.) Shield HAV have free access to fitting modules without compromising Racial Tank and alsoalready have impressive fitting capacity
3.) Armour HAV suffer in three fields a.) Lack of fitting capacity, b.) Hardeners being 15% less efficient, c.) Anti Armour AV climate
Firstly no Sica should be able to have 3950 Shield, and 3385 armour and a 40% Shield Hardener, and a Proto Turret while the Standard Armour HAV can barely make a 5000 EHP competitive fit. This is only possible because of the Shield HAV's gratuitous fitting allowances.
Then on to the AV options. I could name 10 Anti Armour AV options and only 3 Anti Shield Options. This means the already low EHP Armour HAV have even less ability to tank fire while Shield HAV gain another 20% resistance on top of their already more efficient hardeners and can essentially ignore Swarm launchers, AV grenades, and ADS.
It seems to me the original HAV archetypes have been fundamentally reversed.
Armour is now passive regeneration focused and can move incredibly fast in and out of situations while shields are stand an deliver options with greater EHP pools.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
|
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15312
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
In my mind under the current model, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, the only way to rectify this issue is through a couple of steps (assuming the Gunnlogi is left as is).
(Model assumed at proto level)
1.) Armour HAV fitting Capacity increased to allow for all proto module selection
2.) Reintroduction of 180mm plating (offers 2750 armour at PRO level)
3.) Active Repair Modules brought back and Hardeners to 30%
4.) Shield HAV tanking stats altered to 3000 Shield, 1250 Armour
Example
A Standard Gunnlogi might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x Particle Cannon
1x Complex Shield Hardener
2x Complex Heavy Shield Extenders
1x Complex PG Module
1x Complex CPU Module
5650 Shield (*1.4 = 7910) 1250 Armour = total 9160
A Standard Madrugar might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x 20GJ Scattered Blasters
1x Complex 180mm Polycrystalline Armour Plating
1x Complex Type N Carapace Hardener
1x Heavy Efficient Armour Repairer
1x Damage Control
1x Heat Sink II
1200 Shield, 6750 Armour (*1.3 = 8775 ) = total 9975 (9637.5 EHP if assuming 1.25 modifier on hardener and only 477.5 EHP difference.)
Now bear in mind the Armour HAV is supposed to be the brawler tank, and is still subject to enhanced AV damage, and has no passive reps for only 815 extra armour (less than 1 seconds worth of DPS on any vehicle large turret).
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3705
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 05:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings. You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged. True, but at least it opens some more fittings, like three boosters or three hardeners, or mix and match of two of those with something else.
I guess if you want to make fits that don't work?
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
|
Fluffy Exterminatus
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 08:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
YOU CAN THOUGH any shield HAV can run full proto modules, turret, and small turrets RIGHT NOW!
Wrong. proto rail 2 pro 1en shield modules no small turrets and 1 armor plate is what you can run with 30mil sp in vehicles.
They should make the mlt tanks std, the std become adv and bring back enforcers with 1 extra module as proto and actually use the hav skill.
Armour tanks are weaker at the moment but that is more about the av and turrets being used. Everybody has a commando fit or scout with proto swarms or a forge. Yes there are plasma cannons around but they are newer and harder to use with less people using them.
I tankGÇÜ therefore i am.
Patron Saint of Sangria, Senoritas and ruining things.
|
Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
2231
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 09:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF.
well you have to remember these are basic vehicles.. in the standard tier.. wait till they bring back advanced and proto vehicles.. and the logi LAV.. and logi DS... and enforcer/maurauder tanks
#[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
|
Gabriel Ceja
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
70
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 09:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF.
Well when it comes to the gunnlogi I wouldn't mind a cpu/pg buff but it really has no problem fitting stuff as is even if you're a low skilled tanker but as for the madrugar it definitely needs more cpu and pg
"Throw on the flux capacitor."
activates fuel injector
"WOOOOOO!!!"
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3564
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 11:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings. You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged.
Pretty much this, I would be all for giving vehicles some more fitting power, but we all know it won't result in more diverse fits, neither will adding more module slots.
If I give you more fitting power, you won't use it to fit a PRO MCRU or Scanner, you'll use it to slap on a better armour plate or hardener.
If I give you 2 extra slots (1H 1L) You won't use it to put a team support module, you'll put more eHP in it.
Because much like suits, very few people give a **** about anything but eHP. Instead consider more elegant solution, such as fitting bonus to your turrets for each additional one you equip.
1 turret - 0%
2 turret - 20% across all turrets
3 turret - 40% across all turrets
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
|
BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3375
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 12:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
AV and Tanks need to have an inverse proportion, while Tank effectiveness and price a direct proportion.
GåôAV GåæTank effectiveness Gåæ Price. I think AV should be more difficult to use, but tanks need to be hella more expensive.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1223
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings. You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged. It's not even that, it's that if you want to put on small turrets you have to throw a lot of essential modules down the drain and settle for crappy ones. YOU CAN THOUGH any shield HAV can run full proto modules, turret, and small turrets RIGHT NOW! Armour tanks cannot! And should shield tank forgo small turrets they can also Armour tank with is unacceptable.
Adamance, you are being biased now.
Chocolate Juice
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1223
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. Agree. There would only be a marginal increase in vehicle effectivity, but will make way for more creative or diverse fittings. You can't really have diverse fittings with only 2-3 main rack slots. Dropships are passable, but HAVs and LAVs have extremely limited number of fits and it has little to do with PG/CPU. I mean sure, I can probably fit better modules with PG/CPU, but the types of modules will remain unchanged. Pretty much this, I would be all for giving vehicles some more fitting power, but we all know it won't result in more diverse fits, neither will adding more module slots. If I give you more fitting power, you won't use it to fit a PRO MCRU or Scanner, you'll use it to slap on a better armour plate or hardener. If I give you 2 extra slots (1H 1L) You won't use it to put a team support module, you'll put more eHP in it. Because much like suits, very few people give a **** about anything but eHP. Instead consider more elegant solution, such as fitting bonus to your turrets for each additional one you equip. 1 turret - 0% 2 turret - 20% across all turrets 3 turret - 40% across all turrets
If it wasn't for the fact that putting on modules other Armor and Shield would destroy your fit, I would.
Chocolate Juice
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1223
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. well you have to remember these are basic vehicles.. in the standard tier.. wait till they bring back advanced and proto vehicles.. and the logi LAV.. and logi DS... and enforcer/maurauder tanks
They have said countless times they aren't bringing in PRO/ ADV vehicles, only variants and from experience with ADS ect. we know variants have way less CPU and PG than the standard type.
Chocolate Juice
|
|
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3756
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Eh not that biased. Armor HAVs are VERY hard to fit compared to shield tanks. You can easily fit full proto on a shield HAV, but cannot do the same for armor. I'm usually putting extra random **** on my Gunnlogis because I can, and I'm usually leaving a high slot empty on my madrugar because Im out of resources.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1224
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:In my mind under the current model, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, the only way to rectify this issue is through a couple of steps (assuming the Gunnlogi is left as is).
(Model assumed at proto level)
1.) Armour HAV fitting Capacity increased to allow for all proto module selection
2.) Reintroduction of 180mm plating (offers 2750 armour at PRO level)
3.) Active Repair Modules brought back and Hardeners to 30%
4.) Shield HAV tanking stats altered to 3000 Shield, 1250 Armour
Example
A Standard Gunnlogi might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x Particle Cannon
1x Complex Shield Hardener
2x Complex Heavy Shield Extenders
1x Complex PG Module
1x Complex CPU Module
5650 Shield (*1.4 = 7910) 1250 Armour = total 9160
A Standard Madrugar might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x 20GJ Scattered Blasters
1x Complex 180mm Polycrystalline Armour Plating
1x Complex Type N Carapace Hardener
1x Heavy Efficient Armour Repairer
1x Damage Control
1x Heat Sink II
1200 Shield, 6750 Armour (*1.3 = 8775 ) = total 9975 (9637.5 EHP if assuming 1.25 modifier on hardener and only 477.5 EHP difference.)
Now bear in mind the Armour HAV is supposed to be the brawler tank, and is still subject to enhanced AV damage, and has no passive reps for only 815 extra armour (less than 1 seconds worth of DPS on any vehicle large turret).
So you have to use two complex fitting modules to fit that stuff. That's like me saying when I put two complex fitting modules on my Caldari Assault I can fit almost everything easily (Which you can with two fitting modules)
Chocolate Juice
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1224
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Eh not that biased. Armor HAVs are VERY hard to fit compared to shield tanks. You can easily fit full proto on a shield HAV, but cannot do the same for armor. I'm usually putting extra random **** on my Gunnlogis because I can, and I'm usually leaving a high slot empty on my madrugar because Im out of resources.
True but he's acting like OMG shield HAV's can fit what ever they want and have it all complex. Actually, shield HAV's have better fitting capabilities because their tank is in the High so they can use low for other modules. It's not the gunnlogi's fault that fitting modules are on the lows. This is true with damage mods, we gunnlogis aren't very good at fitting scanners, fuel injectors or damage mods. (We are but we give up a lot of tank to fit those modules).
Chocolate Juice
|
Everything Dies
Santa is coming...FOR BLOOD
1092
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 20:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Nerf Shield Tank Fitting Capacity so Sica cannot run full proto modules and so Shield HAV cannot armour tank! Raise Armour tank Fitting Capacity so that it is then on par with Shield modules and then actually viable!
Yes and no.
I have two versions of Gunnis for each type of turret: 1 proto large turret that is meant to be driven solo and the other version has a basic turret + 2 small turrets for the rare occasion I can actually get someone to hop in.
Solo versions generally have about 3,800 shield and 2,500 armor + 2 shield hardeners for tank v tank battles. I sacrifice one hardener in favor of an extender for the small turret builds.
Compare that to my poor Maddys; I have one equipped with an Ion Cannon, injector, scanner, and three repairers (one is advanced, all other modules are basic.) The other Maddy has the basic large and small blaster turrets (only one small, however) along with two scanners, two repairers and one hardener (all basic.) Again, CPU is almost maxed out but I have something like 400 PG sitting there, unused.
The Gunni is great for its versatility and I don't have a major problem with the fitting capacity. Sicas may need to be reduced. But Somas/Maddys...they need at least 100 more CPU to allow for better armor modules along with a small HP boost of about 500 or so.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1224
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 21:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Nerf Shield Tank Fitting Capacity so Sica cannot run full proto modules and so Shield HAV cannot armour tank! Raise Armour tank Fitting Capacity so that it is then on par with Shield modules and then actually viable! Yes and no. I have two versions of Gunnis for each type of turret: 1 proto large turret that is meant to be driven solo and the other version has a basic turret + 2 small turrets for the rare occasion I can actually get someone to hop in. Solo versions generally have about 3,800 shield and 2,500 armor + 2 shield hardeners for tank v tank battles. I sacrifice one hardener in favor of an extender for the small turret builds. Compare that to my poor Maddys; I have one equipped with an Ion Cannon, injector, scanner, and three repairers (one is advanced, all other modules are basic.) The other Maddy has the basic large and small blaster turrets (only one small, however) along with two scanners, two repairers and one hardener (all basic.) Again, CPU is almost maxed out but I have something like 400 PG sitting there, unused. The Gunni is great for its versatility and I don't have a major problem with the fitting capacity. Sicas may need to be reduced. But Somas/Maddys...they need at least 100 more CPU to allow for better armor modules along with a small HP boost of about 500 or so.
What also needs to happen is that light armor modules need a buff as in CPU. A complex light armor repair takes up almost as much as a enhanced heavy.
Also- most of my shield tanks have fitting modules for CPU and PG which allows for better modules in my main tank highs because I have my lows for utility.
Chocolate Juice
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15344
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 21:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:In my mind under the current model, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, the only way to rectify this issue is through a couple of steps (assuming the Gunnlogi is left as is).
(Model assumed at proto level)
1.) Armour HAV fitting Capacity increased to allow for all proto module selection
2.) Reintroduction of 180mm plating (offers 2750 armour at PRO level)
3.) Active Repair Modules brought back and Hardeners to 30%
4.) Shield HAV tanking stats altered to 3000 Shield, 1250 Armour
Example
A Standard Gunnlogi might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x Particle Cannon
1x Complex Shield Hardener
2x Complex Heavy Shield Extenders
1x Complex PG Module
1x Complex CPU Module
5650 Shield (*1.4 = 7910) 1250 Armour = total 9160
A Standard Madrugar might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x 20GJ Scattered Blasters
1x Complex 180mm Polycrystalline Armour Plating
1x Complex Type N Carapace Hardener
1x Heavy Efficient Armour Repairer
1x Damage Control
1x Heat Sink II
1200 Shield, 6750 Armour (*1.3 = 8775 ) = total 9975 (9637.5 EHP if assuming 1.25 modifier on hardener and only 477.5 EHP difference.)
Now bear in mind the Armour HAV is supposed to be the brawler tank, and is still subject to enhanced AV damage, and has no passive reps for only 815 extra armour (less than 1 seconds worth of DPS on any vehicle large turret). So you have to use two complex fitting modules to fit that stuff. That's like me saying when I put two complex fitting modules on my Caldari Assault I can fit almost everything easily (Which you can with two fitting modules)
You can though.
The point I am trying to make is that Shield HAV can have respectable and significantly higher EHP through a straight racial shield tank against most AV options than an Armour Tanks can, AND if you so choose to fit Small Turrets as not everyone does, have free access to fitting modules to allow for a 8620 EHP platform with well around 2000 DPS if fully manned.
However an Armour tank cannot hope to match that in any form.
I can match your DPS but I'll have less regenerative capacity and almost 2000 less EHP. I can attempt to match that EHP but have less DPS and regenerative capacity.
If I chose on a Shield tank to forgo the Small Turrets I can even Armour Tank my Shield HAV.......... I cannot Hybrid tank my Armour HAV under any circumstances.
Hell even Shield HAV that forgo that 2nd Complex Shield Extender will likely have more EHP than me, more regenerative Capacity, AND more DPS due to that Damage module you often see in their high slots.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1224
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 21:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:In my mind under the current model, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, the only way to rectify this issue is through a couple of steps (assuming the Gunnlogi is left as is).
(Model assumed at proto level)
1.) Armour HAV fitting Capacity increased to allow for all proto module selection
2.) Reintroduction of 180mm plating (offers 2750 armour at PRO level)
3.) Active Repair Modules brought back and Hardeners to 30%
4.) Shield HAV tanking stats altered to 3000 Shield, 1250 Armour
Example
A Standard Gunnlogi might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x Particle Cannon
1x Complex Shield Hardener
2x Complex Heavy Shield Extenders
1x Complex PG Module
1x Complex CPU Module
5650 Shield (*1.4 = 7910) 1250 Armour = total 9160
A Standard Madrugar might look like
1x Ion Cannon
2x 20GJ Scattered Blasters
1x Complex 180mm Polycrystalline Armour Plating
1x Complex Type N Carapace Hardener
1x Heavy Efficient Armour Repairer
1x Damage Control
1x Heat Sink II
1200 Shield, 6750 Armour (*1.3 = 8775 ) = total 9975 (9637.5 EHP if assuming 1.25 modifier on hardener and only 477.5 EHP difference.)
Now bear in mind the Armour HAV is supposed to be the brawler tank, and is still subject to enhanced AV damage, and has no passive reps for only 815 extra armour (less than 1 seconds worth of DPS on any vehicle large turret). So you have to use two complex fitting modules to fit that stuff. That's like me saying when I put two complex fitting modules on my Caldari Assault I can fit almost everything easily (Which you can with two fitting modules) You can though. The point I am trying to make is that Shield HAV can have respectable and significantly higher EHP through a straight racial shield tank against most AV options than an Armour Tanks can, AND if you so choose to fit Small Turrets as not everyone does, have free access to fitting modules to allow for a 8620 EHP platform with well around 2000 DPS if fully manned. However an Armour tank cannot hope to match that in any form. I can match your DPS but I'll have less regenerative capacity and almost 2000 less EHP. I can attempt to match that EHP but have less DPS and regenerative capacity. If I chose on a Shield tank to forgo the Small Turrets I can even Armour Tank my Shield HAV.......... I cannot Hybrid tank my Armour HAV under any circumstances. Hell even Shield HAV that forgo that 2nd Complex Shield Extender will likely have more EHP than me, more regenerative Capacity, AND more DPS due to that Damage module you often see in their high slots.
Why are you complaining that Shield tanks with complex fitting modules can fit "good" fits? Seriously? Maybe stop complaining that Shield tanks are OP compared to Armor and complain about Armor being UP compared to shields. Shields are fine.
Chocolate Juice
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5599
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 21:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF.
I think you need to re-assess your statement. given the fact you can have 10,000 ish EHP gunnlogis already, and AV is only marginally effective vs. them at best, your assessment needs a re-think.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15344
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 21:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Nerf Shield Tank Fitting Capacity so Sica cannot run full proto modules and so Shield HAV cannot armour tank! Raise Armour tank Fitting Capacity so that it is then on par with Shield modules and then actually viable! Yes and no. I have two versions of Gunnis for each type of turret: 1 proto large turret that is meant to be driven solo and the other version has a basic turret + 2 small turrets for the rare occasion I can actually get someone to hop in. Solo versions generally have about 3,800 shield and 2,500 armor + 2 shield hardeners for tank v tank battles. I sacrifice one hardener in favor of an extender for the small turret builds. Compare that to my poor Maddys; I have one equipped with an Ion Cannon, injector, scanner, and three repairers (one is advanced, all other modules are basic.) The other Maddy has the basic large and small blaster turrets (only one small, however) along with two scanners, two repairers and one hardener (all basic.) Again, CPU is almost maxed out but I have something like 400 PG sitting there, unused. The Gunni is great for its versatility and I don't have a major problem with the fitting capacity. Sicas may need to be reduced. But Somas/Maddys...they need at least 100 more CPU to allow for better armor modules along with a small HP boost of about 500 or so.
Direct EHP buffs are pointless because they do not address the fundamental issue with tanks. Where once the Armour HAV was the brick with high EHP and the stand and deliver capacity it's now the hit and run HAV, while the shield has taken its original role.
Pre 1.7 Armour tanking was enjoyable. Now it is no longer viable or enjoyable.
I mean most Standard Maddy are instantly destroyed by a missile launcher turret without exception..... yet shield HAV are resistant to and can react to any other kind of turret. There is no reason the Armour HAV should not have comparable capacity.
Two modules that were removed with 1.7 that benefited Armour HAV significantly were the Heat Sink (decreased heat build up) and the Damage Control Unit (between 5-9 % resistances to shield and armour).
Also at one time shield reflected their EVE counter parts and passively regenerated constantly.
Hell think of what could happen if CCP introduced Shield Regulators on HAV as low slot modules.
A Shield HAV could produce a full passive tank without having to abuse its fitting capacity for Armour modules.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1224
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 21:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Everything Dies wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:CPU PG buff vehicles. AV will remain potent AF. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Nerf Shield Tank Fitting Capacity so Sica cannot run full proto modules and so Shield HAV cannot armour tank! Raise Armour tank Fitting Capacity so that it is then on par with Shield modules and then actually viable! Yes and no. I have two versions of Gunnis for each type of turret: 1 proto large turret that is meant to be driven solo and the other version has a basic turret + 2 small turrets for the rare occasion I can actually get someone to hop in. Solo versions generally have about 3,800 shield and 2,500 armor + 2 shield hardeners for tank v tank battles. I sacrifice one hardener in favor of an extender for the small turret builds. Compare that to my poor Maddys; I have one equipped with an Ion Cannon, injector, scanner, and three repairers (one is advanced, all other modules are basic.) The other Maddy has the basic large and small blaster turrets (only one small, however) along with two scanners, two repairers and one hardener (all basic.) Again, CPU is almost maxed out but I have something like 400 PG sitting there, unused. The Gunni is great for its versatility and I don't have a major problem with the fitting capacity. Sicas may need to be reduced. But Somas/Maddys...they need at least 100 more CPU to allow for better armor modules along with a small HP boost of about 500 or so. Direct EHP buffs are pointless because they do not address the fundamental issue with tanks. Where once the Armour HAV was the brick with high EHP and the stand and deliver capacity it's now the hit and run HAV, while the shield has taken its original role. Pre 1.7 Armour tanking was enjoyable. Now it is no longer viable or enjoyable. I mean most Standard Maddy are instantly destroyed by a missile launcher turret without exception..... yet shield HAV are resistant to and can react to any other kind of turret. There is no reason the Armour HAV should not have comparable capacity. Two modules that were removed with 1.7 that benefited Armour HAV significantly were the Heat Sink (decreased heat build up) and the Damage Control Unit (between 5-9 % resistances to shield and armour). Also at one time shield reflected their EVE counter parts and passively regenerated constantly. Hell think of what could happen if CCP introduced Shield Regulators on HAV as low slot modules. A Shield HAV could produce a full passive tank without having to abuse its fitting capacity for Armour modules.
That is actually a brilliant idea! But when Armor tanking was fun pre-1.7, shield tanking was not. Also, missiles are seriously the only good turret at taking out armor tanks. Don't bother with blasters or railguns.
Chocolate Juice
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |