DUST Search - Racial Light AV weapons

Kierkegaard Soren wrote:

I wanted to do a longer post about racial AV, and probably will later, but in short;

Swarms to be deal hybrid rail (kinetic) damage so that calmandos and cal assaults can apply suit bonuses to them.
A "breach" swarm (specialist?) that functions like a RPG. Not dumbfire, however; lock on with limited guidance and slow velocity but massive alpha damage.

Breach mass driver to replace the swarm as minmatar racial AV, essentially a fast, hard-hitting grenade launcher with low ammo capacity and quick reload speeds that favour hit and run tactics.

PLC is in a very good place right now, although I wouldn't mind an assault version with two rounds in the chamber to help finish off tanks before they can retreat.

Breach laser rifle for Amarr. Three second charge-up, three second beam that deals increased damage per second as par LR mechanics. Heat build up will cause the weapon to over heat after the third burst without Amarr assault bonus, with the bonus you get four consecutive bursts, which will empty the clip. No reflex dot for ADS (replaced by an extra heat sink graphically if possible) and the weapon will pull up with the force of the shot in hip-fire, making it a difficult AP weapon.

Thoughts?


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Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:12:00 - [1] - Quote Here are some ideas taken from the discussion in this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=182173 The sum it up, they are racial equivalents to the swarm launcher. They operate differently. I also feel that their introduction should also involve tweaking the plasma cannon and swarm launcher. With more options there should be more advantages/drawbacks involved for each weapon. In other words, swarms could be toned down because they are easier to use, plasma cannons should be buffed for vehicles because they are still situational (though much better now). Homing Rocket Launcher Caldari Light AV Weapon, uses swarm launcher sprite (temporary) Kinetic damage profile Launches a dumbfire rocket that has similar behavior to an AV grenade. 300m range, burns up if no lock after 300m travel within 50m of a vehicle, it autolocks and tracks them (as AV grenades do) 6 Shots before reload, reload time 3 seconds Basic: 350 dmg Adv: 400 dmg Pro: 425 dmg Laser Guided EMP Launcher Amarr Light Av Weapon, uses swarm launcher sprite (temporary) EMP/laser damage profile Launches a dumbfire, rocket propelled EMP grenade that tracks laser painted targets. 350m range, burns up if no vehicle is laser painted for more than 5 seconds 5 shots before reload, reload time 2 seconds Missiles track vehicle as long as it is painted by the laser being emitted from the launcher itself. User simply places their weapon crosshair on the vehicle to paint it. Cannot be used on infantry. Only one missile can be shot and guided at a time. Basic: 520dmg Adv: 560 dmg Pro: 575 dmg I think swarms are walking on a knife's edge in balance simply because infantry have no other light weapon option, aside the plasma cannon, which is no longer viable when the vehicle begins it's retreat. I would like to see swarms balanced and more options introduced, each with strengths and weaknesses in damage application. Thank you for reading !
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:33:00 - [2] - Quote Which one is the RPG?
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 225	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:59:00 - [3] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: That would give the Caldari two light AV... Wat? Make the Minmatar Light AV an anti tank rifle of sorts. Super high damage. Super long reload. Single shot. Iron sights. Can only fire when aimed at a vehicle. The Artillery you see in Eve. In Dust. The swarm launcher is an explosive weapon. The Minmatar Commando gets bonuses to it. I also can't suspend disbelief enough that an Anti Armor Rifle would not fire if not aimed at a vehicle. Even if so, you could spam the trigger until it worked and not even need to aim.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 225	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:06:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Could use the Plasma Cannon or Forge Gun models to create effectively charged Beam Projectors. Also could try meshing weapons together to create interesting sleek looking pulse beam Rifles. Like and Beam Laser Elephant Gun. Seems like an elegant solution to enemy vehicles. I do like that idea as well, Adamance ! As always the challenge is to somehow make it not too overpowering against infantry. Given that these are light weapons, even a scout with cloak should be able to use them effectively. With that said, a beam cannon is something I've always wanted to see in Dust.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 225	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:23:00 - [5] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: [...] There is no way such a weapon would be balanced if it didn't need to be aimed at a vehicle to fire. read it again
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 225	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:27:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: True Adamance wrote: Could use the Plasma Cannon or Forge Gun models to create effectively charged Beam Projectors. Also could try meshing weapons together to create interesting sleek looking pulse beam Rifles. Like and Beam Laser Elephant Gun. Seems like an elegant solution to enemy vehicles. I do like that idea as well, Adamance ! As always the challenge is to somehow make it not too overpowering against infantry. Given that these are light weapons, even a scout with cloak should be able to use them effectively. With that said, a beam cannon is something I've always wanted to see in Dust. The way I imagine it is like the .700 Nitro Express (recently showed up in Far Cry 4 to my absolute job since I loved Assegai and the Safari scenes) it strikes me that a slow firing, maybe 2 shot, direct fire beam rifle could really suit the Amarr. Sure it could be turned against enemy units but it would be a Sentinel only weapon designed to counter Shield HAV at range (more often than not where you will find them) through direct fire. Could have a very slow reload to balance it out, coupled with a scope or zoom option that prevents use in CQC. Ah I see, a heavy weapon !! That makes sense then. It's a bit easier to balance a heavy weapon since it's restricted to sentinels. The forge gun, in my opinion, is quite good and an Amarr version of that would be awesome. What about my suggestion as far as a light weapon would go?
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 225	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:35:00 - [7] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: [...] There is no way such a weapon would be balanced if it didn't need to be aimed at a vehicle to fire. read it again Let me put it this way, actually: it requires less suspension of disbelief to accept that Caldari, missile experts, would have both explosive and kinetic rocket propelled devices then to accept a minmatar anti-material rifle that doesn't fire unless pointed at a vehicle. Not to mention Caldari Commando would finally be able to get a bonus to using racial AV.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 225	Posted - 2014.12.01 22:43:00 - [8] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: OP: It's true, the Minmando gets a bonus for the swarm launcher for no good reason, but it is a Caldari weapon. Anyway: Simple to make Amarr light AV weapon: Use the asset for the Templar ScR with it's 4 arms instead of 2. Fires a beam like the LR, make it a different color, maybe a little thicker. Has a charge up time before firing like the ScR, or the RR is actually a better analogy. Should be shorter, however. Otherwise similar to the current LR but does full damage to vehicles. If it's not difficult to code, changing the damage ramp-up to be based on time on target as opposed to firing time would be a good option. Part of my goal here is also to give alternatives to the swarm launcher, that operate differently. Right now many dropship pilots believe swarms are a bit too strong, and I would be inclined to agree. However they were completely useless before. I can't prove anything but I have a strong feeling that part of the problem is the lack of choice. Unless you have access to a heavy weapon, you are going to use the swarm launcher or plasma cannon (situational) to hit a vehicle. Since it is the ONLY option available to medium and light frames, it has to be good. If there was a choice, with different mechanics, I feel it would be easier to justify balancing the swarm launcher. A strong defence against one light AV can be weak and vulnerable to another. EDIT: simple example: you can "outrun" swarms. With afterburners this was too strong, so afterburners were nerfed and swarms were given a speed boost. Was it justified? Yes because lack of choice. If there was a laser guided missile, outrunning would be impossible. Taking cover would be the ideal defence. And if you camp behind cover, the Homing Rocket Launcher could be fired near your cover and would then track you from the flank, eliminating the benefit of cover. The best defence would be to stay on the move, going in circles, which then is weak to the swarm launcher. With options like this, I feel the swarm launcher could be brought back to balance.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 228	Posted - 2014.12.02 17:41:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: They are not too strong. You either have 60% resists on your shields vs them and they are useless for all intents and purposes allowing you to escape. 313 4 = 1252 (modified by your resists) = between 500.8 and 751.2 damage of your 2500. Where people perceive the Swarmlauncher to be over powered is vs armoured targets where they get their 20% explosives modifier and Proficiency bonuses (up to 15% damage increase per missile vs armour) (313 1.14) x 4= 1439.8 * 1.2 = 1727.76 (or with the 25% armour Hardener 1295.82) or your.... 3500 armour. I agree and I think that is even more reason to bring in the variants with different weapon types and revisit balance on the swarm launcher. I will also like to add that the hardeners, both armor and shield, are pretty bad. They make it impossible for my gunners to fire at targets due to the glow completely obstructing view.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 242	Posted - 2014.12.04 17:40:00 - [10] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: I wanted to do a longer post about racial AV, and probably will later, but in short; Swarms to be deal hybrid rail (kinetic) damage so that calmandos and cal assaults can apply suit bonuses to them. A "breach" swarm (specialist?) that functions like a RPG. Not dumbfire, however; lock on with limited guidance and slow velocity but massive alpha damage. Breach mass driver to replace the swarm as minmatar racial AV, essentially a fast, hard-hitting grenade launcher with low ammo capacity and quick reload speeds that favour hit and run tactics. PLC is in a very good place right now, although I wouldn't mind an assault version with two rounds in the chamber to help finish off tanks before they can retreat. Breach laser rifle for Amarr. Three second charge-up, three second beam that deals increased damage per second as par LR mechanics. Heat build up will cause the weapon to over heat after the third burst without Amarr assault bonus, with the bonus you get four consecutive bursts, which will empty the clip. No reflex dot for ADS (replaced by an extra heat sink graphically if possible) and the weapon will pull up with the force of the shot in hip-fire, making it a difficult AP weapon. Thoughts? All cool ideas !