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Just a heads up to CCP Rattati about the strafe speed changes

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Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 462	Posted - 2014.11.27 08:14:00 - [1] - Quote If you penalize extenders for movement speed, it would not only not make sense lore-wise, but it would also KILL the Min and possibly the Cal scouts. Strafe is essential, if you're a slow strafer with low eHP, you're gonna get obliderated by any other suits. Please think twice before you make harsh changes. I don't play this game anymore as my PS3 broke, but a lot of my old scout bros don't deserve that. The min scout has had it hard enough. Only loyal to the republic.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5378	Posted - 2014.11.27 08:50:00 - [2] - Quote The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. Making it do that they can't do this is a win and weeds out the dumb. Further anything constructed to repulse matter in the manner of shields will cause movement friction as it tries to repulse the air, the ground, etc. In space there is no atmosphere, no terrain, nothing except the occasional micrometeor impact. There is no similarity between how tech functions in space vs. In atmosphere. Lore for ships cannot always apply. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 238	Posted - 2014.11.27 09:35:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. And every single scout stacks Shield Extenders do they? If strafing is the problem then seriously why the **** are they even thinking of nerfing shields? Why not nerf strafing? Put it this way: I've broken my arm so I go to the hospital, and when I get there the doctor punches me in the face hoping that I just forget about my arm. This does not work however as my arm is still broken and still hurts more than my face. Now I have a bleeding nose and a black eye, on top of my broken arm. I see no logic behind this change.
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK Direct Action Resources 230	Posted - 2014.11.27 09:54:00 - [4] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. And every single scout stacks Shield Extenders do they? If strafing is the problem then seriously why the **** are they even thinking of nerfing shields? Why not nerf strafing? Put it this way: I've broken my arm so I go to the hospital, and when I get there the doctor punches me in the face hoping that I just forget about my arm. This does not work however as my arm is still broken and still hurts more than my face. Now I have a bleeding nose and a black eye, on top of my broken arm. I see no logic behind this change. They can't change strafe speeds without another major update because of how they coded it previously, something along those lines anyway I'm not much of a computer guy someone else could go into more detail. Either way the less magically bullet dodging scouts the better, they can stop intruding on other suit roles. The One And Only
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 239	Posted - 2014.11.27 10:03:00 - [5] - Quote THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. And every single scout stacks Shield Extenders do they? If strafing is the problem then seriously why the **** are they even thinking of nerfing shields? Why not nerf strafing? Put it this way: I've broken my arm so I go to the hospital, and when I get there the doctor punches me in the face hoping that I just forget about my arm. This does not work however as my arm is still broken and still hurts more than my face. Now I have a bleeding nose and a black eye, on top of my broken arm. I see no logic behind this change. They can't change strafe speeds without another major update because of how they coded it previously, something along those lines anyway I'm not much of a computer guy someone else could go into more detail. Either way the less magically bullet dodging scouts the better, they can stop intruding on other suit roles. What makes you think there will be less magically bullet dodging scouts if they do this to extenders? Cal and Min scouts would be effected, but Gal and Amr would not. I'm happy to wait til another major update if that means they don't nerf something that has no reason to be nerf'd.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 190	Posted - 2014.11.27 12:08:00 - [6] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: What makes you think there will be less magically bullet dodging scouts if they do this to extenders? Cal and Min scouts would be effected, but Gal and Amr would not. I'm happy to wait til another major update if that means they don't nerf something that has no reason to be nerf'd. depends if they actually include the strafe penalty on ferroscale plates
Haerr Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 2041	Posted - 2014.11.27 12:34:00 - [7] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature... WHAT!? fighter jets
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1096	Posted - 2014.11.27 12:58:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. True. We should totally not fix hit detection, but make everyone just strafe slower instead. Solid as **** fix. Not sure if troll or just stupid. // @JebusMcKing G£î
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3473	Posted - 2014.11.27 13:32:00 - [9] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. And every single scout stacks Shield Extenders do they? If strafing is the problem then seriously why the **** are they even thinking of nerfing shields? Why not nerf strafing? Put it this way: I've broken my arm so I go to the hospital, and when I get there the doctor punches me in the face hoping that I just forget about my arm. This does not work however as my arm is still broken and still hurts more than my face. Now I have a bleeding nose and a black eye, on top of my broken arm. I see no logic behind this change. Good analogy lol......why not nerf strafing? It doesn't make sense to apply those penalties to shield extenders. Are armor plates getting the same penalty? > Check RND out here
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3473	Posted - 2014.11.27 13:35:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. Making it do that they can't do this is a win and weeds out the dumb. Further anything constructed to repulse matter in the manner of shields will cause movement friction as it tries to repulse the air, the ground, etc. In space there is no atmosphere, no terrain, nothing except the occasional micrometeor impact. There is no similarity between how tech functions in space vs. In atmosphere. Lore for ships cannot always apply. Is this some technical issue? Strafing is designed to make your opponent miss. How does it break hit detection? If you aim at a point and that point moves and you don't accordingly, then you will miss. You are probably missing due to smaller hitboxes on the scout. Don't see how strafing is responsible? > Check RND out here

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5386	Posted - 2014.11.27 15:14:00 - [11] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. Making it do that they can't do this is a win and weeds out the dumb. Further anything constructed to repulse matter in the manner of shields will cause movement friction as it tries to repulse the air, the ground, etc. In space there is no atmosphere, no terrain, nothing except the occasional micrometeor impact. There is no similarity between how tech functions in space vs. In atmosphere. Lore for ships cannot always apply. Is this some technical issue? Strafing is designed to make your opponent miss. How does it break hit detection? If you aim at a point and that point moves and you don't accordingly, then you will miss. You are probably missing due to smaller hitboxes on the scout. Don't see how strafing is responsible? Let's use an extreme but not uncommon example. Scout stands still for less than a second and you pull the trigger on an HMG or even an assault rifle. Scout pretty much dies instantly in both cases. Working as intended, right? Right. Now take that same scout and give him a four meter strafe line that he jukes back and forth on in CQC. Doesn't matter how many times he passes through the HMG/AR reticle, he takes miniscule damage if any. And every time you hold the reticle on him no damage or minimal damage when he jukes back and forth. This is the place where the infamous circle strafes and figure eight strafes fall in. Not working as intended. Now we look at the orbital strafe where the scout runs in a wide circle around you with the intention of trying to outrun your rotation. If he gets enough of a head start then he pulls it and guns you down with his SMG or CR. The hit detection on the shotty is bad enough that this is a suicide tactic. But if you see him coming and match his orbit strafe he goes down like you attacked him with one of the horsemen of the apocalypse. Again, working as intended. So example two is where the problem seems to lay. Now let's expand our horizons a bit. Assaults and logis can do this too. Armor assaults and logis have a harder time because plates already affect strafe. Strafe is a percentage of base movement. Plates affect base movement. But it's a combination of factors that stem from the fact that all hit detection is confirmed by the server. The lag betewwen the two clients and server means that you can desync your actual location from the enemy client. Not a problem with straight line or predictable motion, but because dropsuits have no inertia acceleration or deceleration you can get a bit ahead of the enemy client with each direction change. They won't be firing at you at all save by pure stupid luck. Slowing the strafe means you cannot desync as much, inertia lets the client catch up. But in order to hit an enemy your client has to tell the server where you are shooting while tge enemy client tells the server where it actually IS. Then the server has to update both sides plus tell the clients who hit who. Now add to this process the ability to rapidly move and instantly change direction with no loss of motion or momentum. This is where detection is crapping out. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5149	Posted - 2014.11.27 15:38:00 - [12] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: What makes you think there will be less magically bullet dodging scouts if they do this to extenders? Cal and Min scouts would be effected, but Gal and Amr would not. I'm happy to wait til another major update if that means they don't nerf something that has no reason to be nerf'd. Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Good analogy lol......why not nerf strafing? It doesn't make sense to apply those penalties to shield extenders. Are armor plates getting the same penalty? The Strafing penalty is to be applied to both Shield Extenders and Armor Plate and will be proportional to the hit points added by the module, so the effect on Plate will be much greater than the effect on Extenders. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 247	Posted - 2014.11.27 16:52:00 - [13] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: What makes you think there will be less magically bullet dodging scouts if they do this to extenders? Cal and Min scouts would be effected, but Gal and Amr would not. I'm happy to wait til another major update if that means they don't nerf something that has no reason to be nerf'd. Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Good analogy lol......why not nerf strafing? It doesn't make sense to apply those penalties to shield extenders. Are armor plates getting the same penalty? The Strafing penalty is to be applied to both Shield Extenders and Armor Plate and will be proportional to the hit points added by the module, so the effect on Plate will be much greater than the effect on Extenders. OK that's fair. But it doesn't change the fact that there will still be magically bullet dodging scouts, they'll just use less hp and continue strafing, and everyone who uses hp mods will be at even more of a disadvantage against strafing scouts than they are now.
Ku Shala The Generals 1030	Posted - 2014.11.27 17:15:00 - [14] - Quote you fit extenders on a cal scout? what a waste. How much hp do you need for a 1 sec engagement? *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 755	Posted - 2014.11.27 19:35:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. ^ This. Wigglewiggling =/= Strafing
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2148	Posted - 2014.11.27 19:44:00 - [16] - Quote Yeah... No. Scouts need to be nerfed so Assaults can fill there role. Currently, Scouts are better for assaulting because they can strafe ridiculous speeds, both breaking the hit detection (as strafing always used to do to an extent), and just being overall better at strafing then the combat suits, and that, compounded with the breakage of HD that always accompany's the speed, makes a assault a much easier target then a scout, with fewer equipment slots and a small HP boost over a bricked scout. I Live for Tears
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2520	Posted - 2014.11.27 19:55:00 - [17] - Quote You are all dumb as dirt if you think strafing is what makes Scouts good. Scouts are OP because EWAR. They can see enemies through walls and will always get the jump on any suit that's not another Scout. Stop attributing "bad hit detection" or whatever paltry excuse you can come up with because you got outplayed. I have never had issues with hit detection in this game aside from when the servers are lagging. Whenever network conditions are ok the hit detection is absolutely fine. I'm so sick of people whining about literally every little thing, half the time not knowing wtf they're even talking about. Stop blaming hit detection on your lack of ability to track a moving target. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 217	Posted - 2014.11.27 19:57:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. Making it do that they can't do this is a win and weeds out the dumb. Further anything constructed to repulse matter in the manner of shields will cause movement friction as it tries to repulse the air, the ground, etc. In space there is no atmosphere, no terrain, nothing except the occasional micrometeor impact. There is no similarity between how tech functions in space vs. In atmosphere. Lore for ships cannot always apply. Great stuff Break'n Stuff.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5165	Posted - 2014.11.27 20:11:00 - [19] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: What makes you think there will be less magically bullet dodging scouts if they do this to extenders? Cal and Min scouts would be effected, but Gal and Amr would not. I'm happy to wait til another major update if that means they don't nerf something that has no reason to be nerf'd. Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Good analogy lol......why not nerf strafing? It doesn't make sense to apply those penalties to shield extenders. Are armor plates getting the same penalty? The Strafing penalty is to be applied to both Shield Extenders and Armor Plate and will be proportional to the hit points added by the module, so the effect on Plate will be much greater than the effect on Extenders. OK that's fair. But it doesn't change the fact that there will still be magically bullet dodging scouts, they'll just use less hp and continue strafing, and everyone who uses hp mods will be at even more of a disadvantage against strafing scouts than they are now. Yes, but if they have only their base HP, then if they make a single mistake they are dead! I am fine with that. It is the "magically bullet dodging scouts" that can screw up their magic dance, take a bullet spray to the face, and still live to gun you down that are the problem. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5165	Posted - 2014.11.27 20:18:00 - [20] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: You are all dumb as dirt if you think strafing is what makes Scouts good. Scouts are OP because EWAR. They can see enemies through walls and will always get the jump on any suit that's not another Scout. First shot advantage gets the kill 75% of the time before strafing can even be accounted for. Stop attributing "bad hit detection" or whatever paltry excuse you can come up with because you got outplayed. I have never had issues with hit detection in this game aside from when the servers are lagging. Whenever network conditions are ok the hit detection is absolutely fine. I'm so sick of people whining about literally every little thing, half the time not knowing wtf they're even talking about. Stop blaming hit detection on your lack of ability to track a moving target. Scouts were considered Underpowered for over a year, despite having all the EWAR stuff you claim is so OP. The Strafe Speed nerf is only meant to address one aspect of Scout supremacy. Concentric ring scanning offers some possibilities for EWAR tweaks, such as extending Assault suit's inner circle out to 10m and really amping up Assault suit precession within the inner circle of their scan range. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 489	Posted - 2014.11.27 20:22:00 - [21] - Quote Most of these guys would rather the strafe bs continue. Even though the strafe mechanic is broken. They would rather just not hit their targets, when they're actually hitting them, than lose the nothing they have already. In other words, adding a movement penalty to shields won't make you a huge target. Currently there is no penalty to shields at all so they see this as a nerf. Let's take a look at what is being proposed before we lose it here. Most shield based suits matching weapons are long range right? Why are they strafing at 70 meters? The only place the strafe is needed for shield suits is CQC... why are they in that close with long range weapons? This goes back to why we wanted the rail rifle changes. As far as scouts go the fact that scouts are facing other suits face-to-face, and strafing to win fire fights is absurd! In the army any good scout will tell you that if you have fired your weapon, you failed your mission. Scouts are supposed to be sneaking, hacking, hiding, scanning, assassinating, etc. The fact that they are strafing in fire fights, and not running away, tells you something needs to be fixed! If he's using his sprint speed, which rattati said would NOT be affected, to run away he should be fine regardless of the penalty! He can stack shields, and use his sprint speed to engage and escape. However, if he stays trying to be assault strafing and firing he will be affected by the penalty and die! It's really quite simple. Shield scouts and assaults have been taking advantage of this strafe bs for far too long. The penalty to armor makes sense as it gives you the advantage, but the minute it affects your shields now there's all sorts of "lore" reasons why it is just unfair?! I call bs! If you fight with the suit the way it was intended you won't notice the penalty! If you're in a tanked cal assault at 10 meters in front of a breach AR you're screwed! As intended! "Anybody order chaos?"
Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 466	Posted - 2014.11.27 20:53:00 - [22] - Quote GD ruins this game. I wish y'all could just get good instead of whining. Only loyal to the republic.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2149	Posted - 2014.11.27 21:32:00 - [23] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The ability to break hit detection with strafing is not an intended feature of the scout. Making it do that they can't do this is a win and weeds out the dumb. Further anything constructed to repulse matter in the manner of shields will cause movement friction as it tries to repulse the air, the ground, etc. In space there is no atmosphere, no terrain, nothing except the occasional micrometeor impact. There is no similarity between how tech functions in space vs. In atmosphere. Lore for ships cannot always apply. Is this some technical issue? Strafing is designed to make your opponent miss. How does it break hit detection? If you aim at a point and that point moves and you don't accordingly, then you will miss. You are probably missing due to smaller hitboxes on the scout. Don't see how strafing is responsible? It breaks HD because DUST uses server-side hit detection, instead of client side. Where I am on the screen is NOT where I am in the server, provided I am moving. I am somewhere behind me. So, Me changing directions quickly breaks the HD by having you shoot at me where I am, but then the server registering me someplace else. The only real way to resolve this issue is to have client-side HD, where My PS3 is running the map, and when I shoot someone, the game then transfers that to the server, who then transfers that result to the other player, resulting in him aking damage on his screen. {QUICK ADDITION} My PS3 says he takes damage, and on MY system, he takes damage, and then that gets sent to the server, which relays it to him, who then takes damage on his screen. It, by mechanics, leaves the attacker w/ a small, millisecond sized lead, but it is MUCH more honest, and less breakable then Server-side HD. Its why most games run client-side HD. I Live for Tears
Spartykins Militaires Sans Jeux 81	Posted - 2014.11.27 22:42:00 - [24] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Let's take a look at what is being proposed before we lose it here. Most shield based suits matching weapons are long range right? Why are they strafing at 70 meters? The only place the strafe is needed for shield suits is CQC... why are they in that close with long range weapons? Because not everyone uses a RR? (Insert witty phrase here)
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.12.01 04:15:00 - [25] - Quote So what..If anything scouts should suffer the most to speed for armor and shield to stop brick tanked assault scouts ..idc ima logi or assault type by preference get em ccp nerf bat Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 413	Posted - 2014.12.01 04:17:00 - [26] - Quote At least they didn't make scouts side arms only lol. 21 day fast 11/28/14 Life-$
The Master Race Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 413	Posted - 2014.12.01 04:17:00 - [27] - Quote At least they didn't make scouts side arms only lol. 21 day fast 11/28/14 Life-$
Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 501	Posted - 2014.12.01 05:05:00 - [28] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: At least they didn't make scouts side arms only lol. Lol, then they would complain about nova knives dealing too much damage and suggest a 50% reduction to damage at all ranges. Only loyal to the republic.


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