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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
734
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Posted - 2014.11.27 05:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey CCP Rattati,
First, thanks again for the hard work. It is obviously well appreciated, regardless of how the community takes the changes that are being made.
Second, I understand that we are currently in an "Dropsuit Rebuilding" period as evidenced by the volume of dropsuit-centric tweaks planned for the near and not-so-near future. However, while I truly appreciate these changes and look forward to seeing them in game, I think that vehicles have been largely excluded from the same level of balancing effort for quite some time. I firmly believe that vehicles should be the next set of assets to improve on.
To this end, I have a few questions about your vision on the roles that vehicles should play on the battlefield. Furthermore, I'd love to hear any ideas you have on how to make vehicle combat more engaging in the future. My questions are the following:
What should the main objectives of a LAV/Tank/Dropship/ADS be?
Currently, the roles of vehicles heavily overlap with the roles of infantry. Besides for taking objectives, vehicles can do most things that infantry can do with increased efficiency. Although recent changes to the dispersion mechanics of the large blaster turret has assuaged that problem slightly, it seems to be more of a "band-aid" fix to the larger problem - vehicles do not have their own objectives.
When I say objectives, I mean some type of battle-critical role that are best done with vehicles. One suggestion that I have - a sentiment that seems to be shared with some others - is to turn tanks into heavy ordinance machines with high damage, low RoF rounds. Personally, I believe that HAVs should have their large turret and hulls heavily balanced around killing other vehicles - so much so in the former that they could not be used effectively to fight infantry. In exchange, small turrets should be heavily balanced around killing infantry - so much so that they are almost non-effective against other large vehicles. In this way I think that vehicles would be have their own objective that could not be done without them (take out enemy vehicles), but could be fitted to help out infantry in their primary goal. This would mirror the roles of infantry itself - primarily used to capture points, but able to be fitted to aid in the destruction of vehicles. What are your thoughts on the matter?
What are some of your objectives for improving vehicle combat, in order of importance?
It was very helpful when you listed the things that the community could and could not expect from changes to the EWAR system, and allowed us to give better feedback. More importantly, it allowed us to manage expectations. I think that something similar for vehicles would be much appreciated.
I have seen your posts on including a lock-on warning for dropships - a change that I predict to be much appreciated - but I would like to know if you have any other thoughts on how to improve the experience. In addition, I would like to know what rank they have on the "Things to do" list for vehicles. Some common suggestions are an improvement to the small turret interface, particularly for dropships and LAVs, as well as some counter-measures or some form of AV deterrence.
To the best of your knowledge, will vehicles be balanced around the tools we have or with placeholders for racial parity?
I understand that this is a tough question that many would try to hold you to, so you can answer this at your discretion. I would just like to know if changes will be for how vehicles react to current forms of AV, if we should expect to see some return of the old vehicle modules and tanks, or if we can hope for some placeholders for racial parity
As always, your response is appreciated. Thanks in advance, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
735
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Posted - 2014.11.27 06:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
We're thinking alike Rattati...
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
738
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Posted - 2014.11.27 16:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
bump
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1024
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Posted - 2014.11.27 16:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
I too would be interested in the answers to these questions.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
745
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
bumping
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15151
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Indeed especially regarding the rebalancing of Large Turrets and the propositions to covert them into actually Heavy Variations of existing AV options.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5464
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Indeed especially regarding the rebalancing of Large Turrets and the propositions to covert them into actually Heavy Variations of existing AV options.
IMHO heavy turrets should be more cannon, less big autogun.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15153
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:True Adamance wrote:Indeed especially regarding the rebalancing of Large Turrets and the propositions to covert them into actually Heavy Variations of existing AV options. IMHO heavy turrets should be more cannon, less big autogun.
Certainly more like the Railgun or the 88mm Panzer VI H1 Tiger I always mention but in order to do that infantry would have to accept the potential of >5m Blast Radi on single shot high alpha canon powerful enough to drop smaller vehicles in 1-2 shots.
I've even suggested a rebalance from Large Blasters that make them more like Automatic Plasma Cannon....but that's probably what you are referencing....regardless I believe that it is better than .50 Cal Blasters we have now.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
2153
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
I feel, in the vein of vehicles needing special objectives, that perhaps there should be more installations that vehicles find useful.
Things like Rep stations just for vehicles, w/ Supply depots being just for infantry resupply, or Shield Generators that are too hard for infantry to kill, but vehicles could handle, that block OBs from hitting. Etc, etc, etc.
Currently vehicles are very much designed around infantry roles, which is kinda a broken idea.
Sadly, vehicles are designed (or were) around the huge maps of old (IDK if there still there, but zoom all the way out on the map screen), where their their speed would be useful for getting to various obbys, and would be useful for engaging other vehicles at range.
I Live for Tears
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15153
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:I feel, in the vein of vehicles needing special objectives, that perhaps there should be more installations that vehicles find useful.
Things like Rep stations just for vehicles, w/ Supply depots being just for infantry resupply, or Shield Generators that are too hard for infantry to kill, but vehicles could handle, that block OBs from hitting. Etc, etc, etc.
Currently vehicles are very much designed around infantry roles, which is kinda a broken idea.
Sadly, vehicles are designed (or were) around the huge maps of old (IDK if there still there, but zoom all the way out on the map screen), where their their speed would be useful for getting to various obbys, and would be useful for engaging other vehicles at range.
Currently one of the things gimping HAV (maybe other vehicles ) and the insanely high EHP turrets. Fighting one of those is like going up against an enemy tank....... what genius decided that effectually double the EHP of an installation that infantry don't even bother to defend was a good idea?
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
745
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Posted - 2014.11.28 06:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bumping for Dev feedback
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
747
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 07:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bumping for Dev feedback
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
1166
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:Hey CCP Rattati, First, thanks again for the hard work. It is obviously well appreciated, regardless of how the community takes the changes that are being made. Second, I understand that we are currently in an "Dropsuit Rebuilding" period as evidenced by the volume of dropsuit-centric tweaks planned for the near and not-so-near future. However, while I truly appreciate these changes and look forward to seeing them in game, I think that vehicles have been largely excluded from the same level of balancing effort for quite some time. I firmly believe that vehicles should be the next set of assets to improve on. To this end, I have a few questions about your vision on the roles that vehicles should play on the battlefield. Furthermore, I'd love to hear any ideas you have on how to make vehicle combat more engaging in the future. My questions are the following:
What should the main objectives of a LAV/Tank/Dropship/ADS be? Currently, the roles of vehicles heavily overlap with the roles of infantry. Besides for taking objectives, vehicles can do most things that infantry can do with increased efficiency. Although recent changes to the dispersion mechanics of the large blaster turret has assuaged that problem slightly, it seems to be more of a "band-aid" fix to the larger problem - vehicles do not have their own objectives. When I say objectives, I mean some type of battle-critical role that are best done with vehicles. One suggestion that I have - a sentiment that seems to be shared with some others - is to turn tanks into heavy ordinance machines with high damage, low RoF rounds. Personally, I believe that HAVs should have their large turret and hulls heavily balanced around killing other vehicles - so much so in the former that they could not be used effectively to fight infantry. In exchange, small turrets should be heavily balanced around killing infantry - so much so that they are almost non-effective against other large vehicles. In this way I think that vehicles would be have their own objective that could not be done without them (take out enemy vehicles), but could be fitted to help out infantry in their primary goal. This would mirror the roles of infantry itself - primarily used to capture points, but able to be fitted to aid in the destruction of vehicles. What are your thoughts on the matter? What are some of your objectives for improving vehicle combat, in order of importance? It was very helpful when you listed the things that the community could and could not expect from changes to the EWAR system, and allowed us to give better feedback. More importantly, it allowed us to manage expectations. I think that something similar for vehicles would be much appreciated. I have seen your posts on including a lock-on warning for dropships - a change that I predict to be much appreciated - but I would like to know if you have any other thoughts on how to improve the experience. In addition, I would like to know what rank they have on the "Things to do" list for vehicles. Some common suggestions are an improvement to the small turret interface, particularly for dropships and LAVs, as well as some counter-measures or some form of AV deterrence. To the best of your knowledge, will vehicles be balanced around the tools we have or with placeholders for racial parity? I understand that this is a tough question that many would try to hold you to, so you can answer this at your discretion. I would just like to know if changes will be for how vehicles react to current forms of AV, if we should expect to see some return of the old vehicle modules and tanks, or if we can hope for some placeholders for racial parity As always, your response is appreciated. Thanks in advance, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Well, you got your first wish... Large Turrets are almost useless in killing vehicles. You also got your second wish... small turrets are almost useless in killing HAV's.
Chocolate Juice
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
1166
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:I feel, in the vein of vehicles needing special objectives, that perhaps there should be more installations that vehicles find useful.
Things like Rep stations just for vehicles, w/ Supply depots being just for infantry resupply, or Shield Generators that are too hard for infantry to kill, but vehicles could handle, that block OBs from hitting. Etc, etc, etc.
Currently vehicles are very much designed around infantry roles, which is kinda a broken idea.
Sadly, vehicles are designed (or were) around the huge maps of old (IDK if there still there, but zoom all the way out on the map screen), where their their speed would be useful for getting to various obbys, and would be useful for engaging other vehicles at range. Currently one of the things gimping HAV (maybe other vehicles ) and the insanely high EHP turrets. Fighting one of those is like going up against an enemy tank....... what genius decided that effectually double the EHP of an installation that infantry don't even bother to defend was a good idea?
Redline railgun Turrets destroying ADS.
Chocolate Juice
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15167
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 12:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:I feel, in the vein of vehicles needing special objectives, that perhaps there should be more installations that vehicles find useful.
Things like Rep stations just for vehicles, w/ Supply depots being just for infantry resupply, or Shield Generators that are too hard for infantry to kill, but vehicles could handle, that block OBs from hitting. Etc, etc, etc.
Currently vehicles are very much designed around infantry roles, which is kinda a broken idea.
Sadly, vehicles are designed (or were) around the huge maps of old (IDK if there still there, but zoom all the way out on the map screen), where their their speed would be useful for getting to various obbys, and would be useful for engaging other vehicles at range. Currently one of the things gimping HAV (maybe other vehicles ) and the insanely high EHP turrets. Fighting one of those is like going up against an enemy tank....... what genius decided that effectually double the EHP of an installation that infantry don't even bother to defend was a good idea? Redline railgun Turrets destroying ADS.
Indeed. Trouble is ADS cannot destroy them and tanks take too long to do so leaving you with AV units doing that job as the turrets wont target them back.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
753
|
Posted - 2014.11.28 16:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Looking for a response from Rattati or CPM
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1029
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Posted - 2014.11.28 21:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Would still like to hear from Rattati/Devs about the roles of vehicles too. (I'll help you bump, buddy!)
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
754
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Posted - 2014.11.29 01:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Still hoping for some feedback. Bump
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
755
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Posted - 2014.11.29 17:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
756
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
1193
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chocolate Juice
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
1193
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Posted - 2014.11.29 22:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:I feel, in the vein of vehicles needing special objectives, that perhaps there should be more installations that vehicles find useful.
Things like Rep stations just for vehicles, w/ Supply depots being just for infantry resupply, or Shield Generators that are too hard for infantry to kill, but vehicles could handle, that block OBs from hitting. Etc, etc, etc.
Currently vehicles are very much designed around infantry roles, which is kinda a broken idea.
Sadly, vehicles are designed (or were) around the huge maps of old (IDK if there still there, but zoom all the way out on the map screen), where their their speed would be useful for getting to various obbys, and would be useful for engaging other vehicles at range. Currently one of the things gimping HAV (maybe other vehicles ) and the insanely high EHP turrets. Fighting one of those is like going up against an enemy tank....... what genius decided that effectually double the EHP of an installation that infantry don't even bother to defend was a good idea? Redline railgun Turrets destroying ADS. Indeed. Trouble is ADS cannot destroy them and tanks take too long to do so leaving you with AV units doing that job as the turrets wont target them back.
It takes 3 clips from an ADS with XT-1 to destroy a railgun installation. I don't know if CCP know this but it takes a long long long time to shoot off 3 clips (24 rounds) even with python 5. Also, factor this in with how everybody and their mother has proto AV, you have a higher chance of dying before killing this 1 out of the many redline turrets.
Chocolate Juice
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
757
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Posted - 2014.11.30 04:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
bump for luck
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
12437
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thanks for the topic. We will indeed be taking a look at vehicles, and I agree it's their time now. Right now I am hoping to be able to do so in December, with a hotfix. I will certainly be asking the CPM and Community for all the feedback necessary.
A few things from the top of my head, that I would like to take a look at:
LLAV, but not OP fast version Two types of Missile Turrets Logistics Dropships, "no" weapons, remote rep, slow as HAV, ultra durable Ramming damage calculations Bring back a few Modules, preferably Active Small Blaster Dispersion is too high Re-review Dropships Turret elevation Small turrets in proper fitting placement Turret rotation speed and skill bug (not a bug really, it's just capped by the rotation max speed) Would like independent movement of ADS front turret (slight) Turret less HAV's, or MAV's, high speed high durability troop transport Marauders (Mammoth tanks)
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3874
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Any possibility that quick exiting and then reentry will be addressed? Even if slower the LLAV could make certain aspects of current gameplay even worse.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
447
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Would like independent movement of ADS front turret (slight) It would be easier to shot them down if they would have independent rotation mechanic for front turret(that is capable to make 360 degree), but you thinking about something that make 30-60 degree, right?
CCP Rattati wrote: Turret less HAV's, or MAV's, high speed high durability troop transport
Do we have hull for that or it gone be improvised one?
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
12441
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Any possibility that quick exiting and then reentry will be addressed? Even if slower the LLAV could make certain aspects of current gameplay even worse.
Any hope that the repair tools for vehicles could be moved to a turret? The repair functions and the ability to lock on were downright annoying to work with and solo spider tanking really doesn't need to be a thing again.
Would love to see a tank that has no large turret but instead 6 seats.
I have asked the team to see if we can add a "hold to exit", much like a hacking bar.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3876
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Posted - 2014.11.30 15:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Any possibility that quick exiting and then reentry will be addressed? Even if slower the LLAV could make certain aspects of current gameplay even worse.
Any hope that the repair tools for vehicles could be moved to a turret? The repair functions and the ability to lock on were downright annoying to work with and solo spider tanking really doesn't need to be a thing again.
Would love to see a tank that has no large turret but instead 6 seats. I have asked the team to see if we can add a "hold to exit", much like a hacking bar.
If this could be made to vary depending on the vehicle it would be amazing. I think things like dropship passengers hot dropping should still be a thing.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Vyuru
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.11.30 16:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
I just had a thought.
You know how when you go up to a vehicle and enter it, you are automatically in the driver seat? And how you can bounce around between seats on the inside of the vehicle?
What if we removed that?
What if when you go up to the vehicle from the passenger side, you enter the passenger seat, for a LAV, when approaching the back, you enter the gunner's seat, etc.
I'd think that'd really reduce the whole dropsuit hops out of the LAV/HAV, then back in on low health. The only negative aspect I can see to this is that the ADS might be messed up for dropping off uplinks in high narrow places. The pilot might not be able to reenter the pilot's seat of his ADS. |
Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3876
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Posted - 2014.11.30 16:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vyuru, I think that would lead to more annoyance than anything. Like the current vehicle lock which was well intentioned but is actually one of the more frustrating mechanics when you are playing with people you know.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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