DUST Search - Concerning AV & Vehicles

True Adamance wrote:

Toobar Zoobar wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Toobar Zoobar wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Getting ganged up on is supposed to be a losing prospect.

Two forge gunners targeting you is just as, or more deadly.

Justifying a nerf based on "they can focus fire" is idiotic.

And the swarm speed was buffed because dropships could flat out outrun them.

You need better justification than "teamwork is OP" to call for nerfs.

AV as it stands is too unforgiving. Its far too easy for one guy with decent AV to fend of an ADS.

Combine the still prevalent invisible swarm glitch with the buffs they got and thats a dropship pilot on a rage.

And forge gun v ADS is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Its ridiculous how there are no counter measures and down right criminal that there are no lock-on warnings. If there was well we wouldn't even need to worry about fixing the invisible swarm glitch. But as it stands pilots are at an unfair disadvantage and as a result have to enter every engagement very apprehensive, which isn't much fun.

Ha.....hahaha..... you weren't here for Uprising 1.0 -1.6 were you son.....

I been playin this game since may 2012...

Then you should know that this current AV climate was certainly NOT the worst its been for Vehicles.

Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.

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Apocalyptic Destroyer KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 222	Posted - 2014.11.26 04:45:00 - [1] - Quote You'll never be able to fully balance Vehicles if you plan to release either the Racial AV or the Racial Vehicles. You'd want to release the racial gear sooner than later and get to balancing. Since you haven't hinted that you are releasing that racial gear, swarms need a very slight speed reduction. 2 guys targeting at you means your dead, even with ADV or Basic swarms. Or Vehicles need a Lock-On Warning system. Maybe a Warning System such as This Amarrian In Disguise.. Pain is weakness leaving the body. You Underestimate Me, ADS, Tanker, Heavy, Scout, Logi
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5348	Posted - 2014.11.26 08:47:00 - [2] - Quote Getting ganged up on is supposed to be a losing prospect. Two forge gunners targeting you is just as, or more deadly. Justifying a nerf based on "they can focus fire" is idiotic. And the swarm speed was buffed because dropships could flat out outrun them. You need better justification than "teamwork is OP" to call for nerfs. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Toobar Zoobar the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 22	Posted - 2014.11.26 10:15:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Getting ganged up on is supposed to be a losing prospect. Two forge gunners targeting you is just as, or more deadly. Justifying a nerf based on "they can focus fire" is idiotic. And the swarm speed was buffed because dropships could flat out outrun them. You need better justification than "teamwork is OP" to call for nerfs. AV as it stands is too unforgiving. Its far too easy for one guy with decent AV to fend of an ADS. Combine the still prevalent invisible swarm glitch with the buffs they got and thats a dropship pilot on a rage. And forge gun v ADS is like shooting fish in a barrel. Its ridiculous how how there are no counter measures and down right criminal that there are no lock-on warnings. If there was well we wouldn't even need to worry about fixing the invisible swarm glitch. But as it stands pilots are at an unfair disadvantage and as a result have to enter every engagement very apprehensive, which isn't much fun. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15070	Posted - 2014.11.26 10:20:00 - [4] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Getting ganged up on is supposed to be a losing prospect. Two forge gunners targeting you is just as, or more deadly. Justifying a nerf based on "they can focus fire" is idiotic. And the swarm speed was buffed because dropships could flat out outrun them. You need better justification than "teamwork is OP" to call for nerfs. AV as it stands is too unforgiving. Its far too easy for one guy with decent AV to fend of an ADS. Combine the still prevalent invisible swarm glitch with the buffs they got and thats a dropship pilot on a rage. And forge gun v ADS is like shooting fish in a barrel. Its ridiculous how there are no counter measures and down right criminal that there are no lock-on warnings. If there was well we wouldn't even need to worry about fixing the invisible swarm glitch. But as it stands pilots are at an unfair disadvantage and as a result have to enter every engagement very apprehensive, which isn't much fun. Ha.....hahaha..... you weren't here for Uprising 1.0 -1.6 were you son..... I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5348	Posted - 2014.11.26 10:35:00 - [5] - Quote I think someone is running advanced vehicle hulls with STD, maybe ADV modules and expecting to survive proto wielding slaughter psychos. It is very simple. Since there are only two universally effective AV weapons ans they are both armor busters, all ov the vehicles are balanced against them. We can't balance based on profile because there is no laser or projectile AV weapons and the plasma, while insane and hilarious, is very situational. This causes major issues with balance because it's kinda hard to balance a python to ignore rails and explosives when there are no laser AV and the plasma is unlikely to do the job because range maximums and reload speed. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Toobar Zoobar the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2014.11.26 11:56:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Getting ganged up on is supposed to be a losing prospect. Two forge gunners targeting you is just as, or more deadly. Justifying a nerf based on "they can focus fire" is idiotic. And the swarm speed was buffed because dropships could flat out outrun them. You need better justification than "teamwork is OP" to call for nerfs. AV as it stands is too unforgiving. Its far too easy for one guy with decent AV to fend of an ADS. Combine the still prevalent invisible swarm glitch with the buffs they got and thats a dropship pilot on a rage. And forge gun v ADS is like shooting fish in a barrel. Its ridiculous how there are no counter measures and down right criminal that there are no lock-on warnings. If there was well we wouldn't even need to worry about fixing the invisible swarm glitch. But as it stands pilots are at an unfair disadvantage and as a result have to enter every engagement very apprehensive, which isn't much fun. Ha.....hahaha..... you weren't here for Uprising 1.0 -1.6 were you son..... I been playin this game since may 2012... Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1018	Posted - 2014.11.26 12:02:00 - [7] - Quote Swarms are pretty nuts at the moment, but the issue is not the direct speed it is the inability to use skill to evade: buildings and the required proximity to them to avoid Swarms can be an incredibly dangerous prospect (one looped round? Now you slam nose first into the same building because reasons) while there is no dropship manoeuvre capable of dodging swarms or causing them to miss and hit something else. One of the biggest problems we have is the lack of competent racial AV weapons: people eschew the use of the plasma, as Breakin says, because it is hard to apply the damage unless you're at point blank range or targeting a stationary target. Swarms are incredibly common because they are very simple to use while being extremely effective against half of the vehicle options (due to the explosive profile) while doing plenty of damage to shield vehicles, enough to drive them off or kill them if they are sufficiently terrified or even STD ones. We need racial AV, such that shields and armour have specific counters that can be used, and we need to stop having the most effective weapon (numbers wise) be the simplest and easiest to use. Something like this idea is an ideal example: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=182173&find=unread Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 408	Posted - 2014.11.26 12:25:00 - [8] - Quote Gk ships have enough armor to take 4 swarms with all mil mods and a shield hardened ck can take way way more give it a go m8. I am going to see if I can fit my gk ship with a hardener today and see what comes of it. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 410	Posted - 2014.11.26 12:25:00 - [9] - Quote Gk ships have enough armor to take 4 swarms with all mil mods and a shield hardened ck can take way way more give it a go m8. I am going to see if I can fit my gk ship with a hardener today and see what comes of it. 21 day fast 11/28/14 Life-$
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5352	Posted - 2014.11.26 12:40:00 - [10] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Gk ships have enough armor to take 4 swarms with all mil mods and a shield hardened ck can take way way more give it a go m8. I am going to see if I can fit my gk ship with a hardener today and see what comes of it. By observation I find no difference in TTK between dropships maxing buffer vs. Dropships running hardeners. Pythons take three shots incubi take three shots unless it's a complete crapfit. Weapon of choice is Ishukone Assault Forge. I find swarms to be largely a waste of my weapon slot. Operationally buffer is better for ADS because you can't get two-shotted between hardener cycles. This is from the perspective of the guy shooting ADS down. Don't ask me to fly them unless you find spectacular crashes to be the pinnacle of gameplay. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 13972	Posted - 2014.11.26 12:50:00 - [11] - Quote I fail to see why the lack of other AV options is a need for a Swarm Launcher nerf. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Blueprint For Murder Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 408	Posted - 2014.11.26 12:55:00 - [12] - Quote Ds have more slots than ads so I am sure your account is accurate, the majority is 4 in most cases for me though. Are you a min commando? The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 410	Posted - 2014.11.26 12:55:00 - [13] - Quote Ds have more slots than ads so I am sure your account is accurate, the majority is 4 in most cases for me though. Are you a min commando? 21 day fast 11/28/14 Life-$
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5355	Posted - 2014.11.26 13:53:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: I fail to see why the lack of other AV options is a need for a Swarm Launcher nerf. You're looking for logic. That was your first mistake. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Apocalyptic Destroyer KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 222	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:00:00 - [15] - Quote Instead of nerfing swarms.... Increase Dropship maneuverability so we can actually maneuver around these "buildings" ? Amarrian In Disguise.. Pain is weakness leaving the body. You Underestimate Me, ADS, Tanker, Heavy, Scout, Logi
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15083	Posted - 2014.11.26 21:23:00 - [16] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: True Adamance wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Getting ganged up on is supposed to be a losing prospect. Two forge gunners targeting you is just as, or more deadly. Justifying a nerf based on "they can focus fire" is idiotic. And the swarm speed was buffed because dropships could flat out outrun them. You need better justification than "teamwork is OP" to call for nerfs. AV as it stands is too unforgiving. Its far too easy for one guy with decent AV to fend of an ADS. Combine the still prevalent invisible swarm glitch with the buffs they got and thats a dropship pilot on a rage. And forge gun v ADS is like shooting fish in a barrel. Its ridiculous how there are no counter measures and down right criminal that there are no lock-on warnings. If there was well we wouldn't even need to worry about fixing the invisible swarm glitch. But as it stands pilots are at an unfair disadvantage and as a result have to enter every engagement very apprehensive, which isn't much fun. Ha.....hahaha..... you weren't here for Uprising 1.0 -1.6 were you son..... I been playin this game since may 2012... Then you should know that this current AV climate was certainly NOT the worst its been for Vehicles. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3626	Posted - 2014.11.26 22:00:00 - [17] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ha.....hahaha..... you weren't here for Uprising 1.0 -1.6 were you son..... Oh my I do remember the days when 1 guy with swarms could sit on a tower in the middle of the map and completely shut down any vehicle nearly anywhere on the map. And people thought those days were "balanced" Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15086	Posted - 2014.11.26 22:47:00 - [18] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ha.....hahaha..... you weren't here for Uprising 1.0 -1.6 were you son..... Oh my I do remember the days when 1 guy with swarms could sit on a tower in the middle of the map and completely shut down any vehicle nearly anywhere on the map. And people thought those days were "balanced" And he was invisible to you outside a 50m range...... though after they fixed the rendering issues I loved being able to snipe things with blasters. I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
Apocalyptic Destroyer KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 222	Posted - 2014.11.26 23:51:00 - [19] - Quote Swarms are too fast, either nerf the speed or give the ADS more maneuverability Amarrian In Disguise.. Pain is weakness leaving the body. You Underestimate Me, ADS, Tanker, Heavy, Scout, Logi
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 25	Posted - 2014.11.28 07:01:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: True Adamance wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Getting ganged up on is supposed to be a losing prospect. Two forge gunners targeting you is just as, or more deadly. Justifying a nerf based on "they can focus fire" is idiotic. And the swarm speed was buffed because dropships could flat out outrun them. You need better justification than "teamwork is OP" to call for nerfs. AV as it stands is too unforgiving. Its far too easy for one guy with decent AV to fend of an ADS. Combine the still prevalent invisible swarm glitch with the buffs they got and thats a dropship pilot on a rage. And forge gun v ADS is like shooting fish in a barrel. Its ridiculous how there are no counter measures and down right criminal that there are no lock-on warnings. If there was well we wouldn't even need to worry about fixing the invisible swarm glitch. But as it stands pilots are at an unfair disadvantage and as a result have to enter every engagement very apprehensive, which isn't much fun. Ha.....hahaha..... you weren't here for Uprising 1.0 -1.6 were you son..... I been playin this game since may 2012... Then you should know that this current AV climate was certainly NOT the worst its been for Vehicles. Whats your point? It may not be the worst climate but it is still not good enough. Swarms are plane stupid. Forge guns are plane stupid. We need more traditional AV weapons. We need lock-on warnings and countermeasures for vehicles just like every other game out there. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5486	Posted - 2014.11.28 07:17:00 - [21] - Quote considering that the forge gun is akin to a recoiless rifle from WWI/WWII you don't get much more traditional than that EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 25	Posted - 2014.11.28 07:30:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: considering that the forge gun is akin to a recoiless rifle from WWI/WWII you don't get much more traditional than that The forge gun is impossible. Even if we did develop advanced rail tech, firing it would fling the guy using it back 5 yards and the projectile itself couldn't maintain that level a trajectory. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5486	Posted - 2014.11.28 08:08:00 - [23] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: considering that the forge gun is akin to a recoiless rifle from WWI/WWII you don't get much more traditional than that The forge gun is impossible. Even if we did develop advanced rail tech, firing it would fling the guy using it back 5 yards and the projectile itself couldn't maintain that level a trajectory. if inertial dampers work on falls they work on dissipation of forge gun uber recoil EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 25	Posted - 2014.11.28 08:36:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: considering that the forge gun is akin to a recoiless rifle from WWI/WWII you don't get much more traditional than that The forge gun is impossible. Even if we did develop advanced rail tech, firing it would fling the guy using it back 5 yards and the projectile itself couldn't maintain that level a trajectory. if inertial dampers work on falls they work on dissipation of forge gun uber recoil The inertial damper, also impossible. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5487	Posted - 2014.11.28 08:55:00 - [25] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: considering that the forge gun is akin to a recoiless rifle from WWI/WWII you don't get much more traditional than that The forge gun is impossible. Even if we did develop advanced rail tech, firing it would fling the guy using it back 5 yards and the projectile itself couldn't maintain that level a trajectory. if inertial dampers work on falls they work on dissipation of forge gun uber recoil The inertial damper, also impossible. Welcome to regular science fiction as opposed to hard science fiction. In regular science fiction, space magic exists! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 25	Posted - 2014.11.28 10:20:00 - [26] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Toobar Zoobar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: considering that the forge gun is akin to a recoiless rifle from WWI/WWII you don't get much more traditional than that The forge gun is impossible. Even if we did develop advanced rail tech, firing it would fling the guy using it back 5 yards and the projectile itself couldn't maintain that level a trajectory. if inertial dampers work on falls they work on dissipation of forge gun uber recoil The inertial damper, also impossible. Welcome to regular science fiction as opposed to hard science fiction. In regular science fiction, space magic exists! With Sci-Fi space magic in games is very easy to create unbalance. Thats what has happened here. Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.


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