DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Bundled ISK fits for New Players

Lynn Beck wrote:

Piercing Serenity wrote:

Lynn Beck wrote:

I think, if this is to help newbros out, then we shouldn't expect them to have 1,3,5 on their cores, note that some people play and spread their SP literally all over the place, gathering all the lv1's because they don't want to wait for lv2s, and so on and so forth.

By the time they hit a Prototype suit, they should have near lv3 on all cores, so I would start there. People JUST starting out on the other hand, might start skilling into Assaults and lv2 in their weapon before even looking at cores: Remember, these people came from COD and other games, where the gun makes the fit. Even TF2/Tribes, the suit is 99% of your role, the rest is just optimizations within that role.

My proposed "Core skill" requirement for the bundled ISK fits would be 0 for standard fits, 1/2 for Advanced fits, and 3/4 for Prototype.

This way it's not a quick throwtogether suit made for Vets only at the upper end.

I think that the purpose of these types of fittings depends on their long term goal. The fits that I designed were focused on getting new players acclimated to the idea that core-skills were the most important. I think that it would suck for a new player to skill into a suit that was not competitive because it was an easy switch-in from the COD family.

Personally, I think that these suits need to reflect the type of mentality you need to have for DUST. If a new player would like to forgo that advice and build their suit their own way - more power to them. But we should have the "correct" way to spend your SP listed out for those who chose to listen, because the grind is hard enough as it is

I guess that makes sense, wouldn't want the newbies to be thinking cores aren't super important.
Would there then also be Militia tier ISK fits designed with 0 cores in mind? For example a Militia Minmatar Light that has a Combat Rifle and Knives with maybe 1 additional module.(forget how much space they have) Also possible is the fact that some roles can have lots(LOTS) of different fittings, for example a Minmatar Scout would have a full damp fit, a hybrid scanning/damp fit, a kincatted to all hell fit, and then your light assault with 2 reactives and 2 extenders.

Or are we just going to throw basic fittings out there to say "This is what you are aiming for, and this is the only fitting we will supply" So similar to the APEX suits?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 728	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:48:00 - [1] - Quote (STD) Caldari Medium Frame C-I Comments This suit is geared for short and long range combat. RR allows the suit to engage from range, while the BP allows it to inflict high damage from short range. Flux grenade is used to strip shields for potential OHKOs, but it could be swapped out for a locus grenade if we think that newbro's can't work well with fluxes. Nanohive is added for utility and doctrine purposes. Shield Regulators are for doctrine as well. CCP Rattati said that EHP is greater than all, but following that rule would require the suit to dual tank, which we should not promote. This is a very cheap suit all around, coming in at about 10,000 (9,975) ISK per suit. As a bonus, this suit has room to grow. It uses 81% of its CPU and 77% of its PG. As a result, the newbro can upgrade the modules on the suit without drastically increasing the ISK or SP investment. Specifically, Newbros can upgrade the following: Basic Shield Extender --> Enhanced Shield Extender (1) Rail Rifle --> SB-39 Rail Rifle / SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle Bolt Pistol --> SR-25 Bolt Pistol Flux Grenade --> C7 Flux Grenade Shield Regulator --> Enhanced Shield Regulator (2) Nanohive --> K-2 Nanohive / X-3 Quantum Nanohive Skill Points Required: 584,560 Dropsuit Command - Lv 3 Caldari Medium Dropsuits - Lv 1 Dropsuit Upgrades - Lv 1 Dropsuit Core Upgrades - Lv 1 Nanocircuitry - Lv 1 Weaponry - Lv 3 Dropsuit Shield Upgrades - Lv 1 Shield Extension - Lv 1 Shield Regulation - Lv 1 Explosives - Lv 1 Light Weapon Operation - Lv 3 Rail Rifle Operation - Lv 1 Sidearm Operation - Lv 3 Bolt Pistol Operation - Lv 1 SP is approximated. Protofits doesn't seem to tell me the minimum requirements for weapons Load out: H: Basic Shield Extender H: Basic Shield Extender L: Basic Shield Regulator L: Basic Shield Regulator EQ: Nanohive LW: Rail Rifle SA: Bolt Pistol G: Flux Grenade Basic Stats: Shield: 288 HP Armor: 120 HP EHP: 408 HP Shield Recharge Delay: 3.67s Shield Recharge Delay (Depleted): 4.67s Cost: 9,975ISK Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 728	Posted - 2014.11.24 21:42:00 - [2] - Quote (ADV) Caldari Medium Frame C/I Series Comments This ADV fitting is largely an extension of C-I series fitting. It has improved killing power at range and in CQC. However, the steep increase in module fitting costs (Specifically Nanohives) prevents pure ADV modules on the suit. As a result, there is a mix of basic and ADV modules to promote utility over all. The suit's equipment has been functionally upgraded from a (Basic) nanohive to a compact nanohive, something that was not possible given the C-I's fitting guidelines. With the compact nanohive, the C/I Series boosts its survivability in exchange for stronger ammo reserves - something that a not-so-newbro would appreciate. Compared to the C-I, this is a very expensive suit both ISK and SP wise. It costs more than three times the ISK (33,840) than the C-I, and has a similar multiplier on the SP required for the suit (2,076,880). Moreover, the suit - as fitted - has nearly reached its limit. It uses 98% of its CPU and 93% of its PG. It is important to note that the suit can be optimized slightly by investing SP into "Dropsuit Electronics" and "Dropsuit Engineering". The aforementioned skills were omitted due to their non-essential nature. Skill Points Required: 2,076,880 Dropsuit Command - Lv 3 Caldari Medium Dropsuits - Lv 3 Dropsuit Upgrades - Lv 3 Dropsuit Core Upgrades - Lv 3 Nanocircuitry - Lv 3 Weaponry - Lv 3 Dropsuit Shield Upgrades - Lv 3 Shield Extension - Lv 3 Shield Regulation - Lv 3 Explosives - Lv 3 Light Weapon Operation - Lv 3 Rail Rifle Operation - Lv 3 Sidearm Operation - Lv 3 Bolt Pistol Operation - Lv 3 SP is approximated. Protofits doesn't seem to tell me the minimum requirements for weapons Load out: H: Enhanced Shield Extender H: Enhanced Shield Extender H: Basic Shield Extender L: Enhanced Shield Regulator L: Basic Shield Regulator EQ: Compact Nanohive LW: SB-39 Rail Rifle SA: SR-25 Bolt Pistol G: Flux Grenade Basic Stats: Shield: 382 HP Armor: 120 HP EHP: 502 HP Shield Recharge Delay: 3.17s Shield Recharge Delay (Depleted): 4.33s Cost: 33,840ISK Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 730	Posted - 2014.11.24 22:42:00 - [3] - Quote (PRO) Caldari Medium Frame Ck.0 This PRO fitting increases the EHP of the series by another 100 HP while also taking a step away from the "EHP > ALL" mentality. Through the use of a Complex CPU Upgrade, the suit not only sports almost all PRO modules but also emphases the importance of the "Dropsuit Electronics" and "Dropsuit Engineering" skills. Important Note: As a Vet, this would be a horrible waste of SP as the current system stands. I would much rather spend this SP on an ADV Caldari Assault than put it into this suit. I think that Pokey Dravon's suggestion should be considered strongly. This Ck.0 fitting is almost perfectly efficient, suiting top of the line equipment. As fitted, the suit uses 93% of its CPU and 100% of its PG. In exchange, this suit is very expensive and SP intensive. It costs 151,104ISK per suit, and a total of 13,643,160SP (Approximately) to wear. Skill Points Required: 13,643,160 Dropsuit Command - Lv 3 Caldari Medium Dropsuits - Lv 5 Dropsuit Upgrades - Lv 5 Dropsuit Core Upgrades - Lv 5 Nanocircuitry - Lv 5 Weaponry - Lv 3 Dropsuit Shield Upgrades - Lv 5 Shield Extension - Lv 5 Shield Regulation - Lv 5 Explosives - Lv 5 Light Weapon Operation - Lv 5 Rail Rifle Operation - Lv 5 Sidearm Operation - Lv 5 Bolt Pistol Operation - Lv 5 SP is approximated. Protofits doesn't seem to tell me the minimum requirements for weapons Load out: H: Complex Shield Extender H: Complex Shield Extender H: Complex Shield Extender H: Complex Shield Recharger L: Complex Shield Regulator L: Complex Shield Regulator L: Complex CPU Upgrade EQ: K-2 Nanohive LW: Kaalakiota Rail Rifle SA: Kaalakiota Bolt Pistol G: Core Locus Grenade Basic Stats: Shield: 480 HP Armor: 120 HP EHP: 600 HP Shield Recharge Rate: 45.53 HP/s Shield Recharge Delay: 2.05s Shield Recharge Delay (Depleted): 3.01s Cost: 151,104ISK Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 736	Posted - 2014.11.27 07:00:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Could we start with masteries, just as skills necessary to fit these Caldari Mastery STD (for lack of a cooler name) - needs these skills, when you have them, the fit goes from "no" to "yes" (red x to green check) then you could check your masteries under the character. hmmm At least for what you've proposed, I wrote up three sample skillets and fittings for the Caldari Medium Frames here. As for the "Caldari Mastery STD", it could have the following skills: Skill Points Required: 603,240 Dropsuit Command - Lv 3 Caldari Medium Dropsuits - Lv 1 Dropsuit Upgrades - Lv 1 Dropsuit Core Upgrades - Lv 1 Dropsuit Electronics - Lv1 Dropsuit Engineering - Lv 1 Nanocircuitry - Lv 1 Weaponry - Lv 3 Dropsuit Shield Upgrades - Lv 1 Shield Extension - Lv 1 Shield Regulation - Lv 1 Explosives - Lv 1 Grenadier - Lv 1 Light Weapon Operation - Lv 3 Rail Rifle Operation - Lv 1 Sidearm Operation - Lv 3 Bolt Pistol Operation - Lv 1 SP total is approximate Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 736	Posted - 2014.11.27 07:14:00 - [5] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I think, if this is to help newbros out, then we shouldn't expect them to have 1,3,5 on their cores, note that some people play and spread their SP literally all over the place, gathering all the lv1's because they don't want to wait for lv2s, and so on and so forth. By the time they hit a Prototype suit, they should have near lv3 on all cores, so I would start there. People JUST starting out on the other hand, might start skilling into Assaults and lv2 in their weapon before even looking at cores: Remember, these people came from COD and other games, where the gun makes the fit. Even TF2/Tribes, the suit is 99% of your role, the rest is just optimizations within that role. My proposed "Core skill" requirement for the bundled ISK fits would be 0 for standard fits, 1/2 for Advanced fits, and 3/4 for Prototype. This way it's not a quick throwtogether suit made for Vets only at the upper end. I think that the purpose of these types of fittings depends on their long term goal. The fits that I designed were focused on getting new players acclimated to the idea that core-skills were the most important. I think that it would suck for a new player to skill into a suit that was not competitive because it was an easy switch-in from the COD family. Personally, I think that these suits need to reflect the type of mentality you need to have for DUST. If a new player would like to forgo that advice and build their suit their own way - more power to them. But we should have the "correct" way to spend your SP listed out for those who chose to listen, because the grind is hard enough as it is Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 738	Posted - 2014.11.27 16:34:00 - [6] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Could we start with masteries, just as skills necessary to fit these Caldari Mastery STD (for lack of a cooler name) - needs these skills, when you have them, the fit goes from "no" to "yes" (red x to green check) then you could check your masteries under the character. hmmm I don't want to be pedantic or split hairs over terminology, but in this case I think it's absolutely critical to get right in this case or you could get a lot of confusion. I know you're not a big EVE player, but it's worth firing up EVE and spending a few minutes studying the ISIS system there (unfortunately named prior to it being hijacked by terrorists). The term mastery should be consistent between games. What you're describing is prerequisites. Mastery is used to describe improving your ability to fulfill a role not the skills required to actually get into the ship. So to use DUST examples but using the term consistently with EVE, mastery 5 in Amarr Assault would include proficiency 5 in the ScR. This bonus doesn't unlock access to anything. +1 for consistency across games Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 745	Posted - 2014.11.28 02:04:00 - [7] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Piercing Serenity wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: I think, if this is to help newbros out, then we shouldn't expect them to have 1,3,5 on their cores, note that some people play and spread their SP literally all over the place, gathering all the lv1's because they don't want to wait for lv2s, and so on and so forth. By the time they hit a Prototype suit, they should have near lv3 on all cores, so I would start there. People JUST starting out on the other hand, might start skilling into Assaults and lv2 in their weapon before even looking at cores: Remember, these people came from COD and other games, where the gun makes the fit. Even TF2/Tribes, the suit is 99% of your role, the rest is just optimizations within that role. My proposed "Core skill" requirement for the bundled ISK fits would be 0 for standard fits, 1/2 for Advanced fits, and 3/4 for Prototype. This way it's not a quick throwtogether suit made for Vets only at the upper end. I think that the purpose of these types of fittings depends on their long term goal. The fits that I designed were focused on getting new players acclimated to the idea that core-skills were the most important. I think that it would suck for a new player to skill into a suit that was not competitive because it was an easy switch-in from the COD family. Personally, I think that these suits need to reflect the type of mentality you need to have for DUST. If a new player would like to forgo that advice and build their suit their own way - more power to them. But we should have the "correct" way to spend your SP listed out for those who chose to listen, because the grind is hard enough as it is I guess that makes sense, wouldn't want the newbies to be thinking cores aren't super important. Would there then also be Militia tier ISK fits designed with 0 cores in mind? For example a Militia Minmatar Light that has a Combat Rifle and Knives with maybe 1 additional module.(forget how much space they have) Also possible is the fact that some roles can have lots(LOTS) of different fittings, for example a Minmatar Scout would have a full damp fit, a hybrid scanning/damp fit, a kincatted to all hell fit, and then your light assault with 2 reactives and 2 extenders. Or are we just going to throw basic fittings out there to say "This is what you are aiming for, and this is the only fitting we will supply" So similar to the APEX suits? I think that these bundled ISK fits should be designed for the players who might never venture into the forums to check out what other fits are possible, and as a result might never fight sites like Protofits to experiment with their fittings. They should be decent enough that a casual player could skill into them and have a decent time. I think that the players who want to mess around with fits that require no cores to use will do that, regardless of what parameters are in place. For all of the experimental fits - ISK efficient fits for low SP players, niche fits, etc - I think that players who are more interested in those will also be more interested in visiting the forums to learn about those. Or, do a google search (that will bring them here) at least. Ultimately, we should put these fittings out there to say: "Here is a way mark for competitive play. There are many ways to do things differently, and certainly more efficiently." In this light, all we've (the community) have done is put in the grunt work to figure out a few of those way marks. Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 758	Posted - 2014.11.30 17:54:00 - [8] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Yeah I can see where that's coming from now, I thought of "Help NPE" and immediately went for "Noob Friendly fits" or "Cater to the CoD noobs" Which I wouldn't have minded, but this is a lot more elegant. Teach them the ways of the DUST. Although I am curious as to how a person would RP build a CoD fitting... Cardiacs and damage mods out the bum I assume. Dear god that would be a terrible fitting... I would have gone for: ADV Min. Assault H: Light Weapon Damage mod H: Light Weapon Damage mod H: Myofibril L: Kin Cat L: Armor Repairer L: Armor Repairer G: Locus Grenade EQ: Any Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm