DUST Search - No, extenders cannot change the hitbox size

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

I agree the coding would be difficult, but I don't think it's as convoluted as creating a completely new wireframe mesh model for every possible combination... Instead just use 'scaling'. So use the same model the suit has now, just add in a scaling factor of some percentage (ie. 5% penalty = a 1.05 scaling factor etc.). Done.

As for "dynamic", it wouldn't be. It's set at "spawn-in" and thus only changes when you change your suit or die Just like they do for vehicles and vehicle turret bonuses now.

As for stress on databases... I don't know how CCP is currently doing it, but if they are doing it in a way that a small change like this would upset it, then they have larger issues than this to deal with in the code. Afterall, in EVE they have ginormous databases, that go back to the original day of the game's release over 10 years ago and include more players and their equipment and ships etc that number thousands more than anything we've ever seen in this game. So I'm certain solutions exist.

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5191	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:11:00 - [1] - Quote Quit asking. Hitboxes are not dynamic. changing them requires direct alteration of the wireframe mesh of the character model. They cannot be dynamic unless you make a different character model for every possible extender combination. This puts undue stress on the database because of the number of calls the game has to make already. Now imagine adding another 40 or so separate character models in for each dropsuit to account for all of the hitboxes. That's exactly what you would have to do, add different models with minutely different invisible characteristics. To account for every single possible combination of MLT/STD/ADV/PRO extenders you can possibly imagine. So no, extenders cannot expand hitboxes. anyone suggesting it is either trolling or ignorant. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 852	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:13:00 - [2] - Quote Here's a thought: Target has more extenders -> you get more aim assist Lore explanation: Shield extenders use so much energy they actually attract bullets
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17800	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:14:00 - [3] - Quote causes weird issues too such as weakpoint occlusion. collision model errors and all sorts of not so fun things. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 676	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:27:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Quit asking. Hitboxes are not dynamic. changing them requires direct alteration of the wireframe mesh of the character model. They cannot be dynamic unless you make a different character model for every possible extender combination. This puts undue stress on the database because of the number of calls the game has to make already. Now imagine adding another 40 or so separate character models in for each dropsuit to account for all of the hitboxes. That's exactly what you would have to do, add different models with minutely different invisible characteristics. To account for every single possible combination of MLT/STD/ADV/PRO extenders you can possibly imagine. So no, extenders cannot expand hitboxes. anyone suggesting it is either trolling or ignorant. I agree the coding would be difficult, but I don't think it's as convoluted as creating a completely new wireframe mesh model for every possible combination... Instead just use 'scaling'. So use the same model the suit has now, just add in a scaling factor of some percentage (ie. 5% penalty = a 1.05 scaling factor etc.). Done. As for "dynamic", it wouldn't be. It's set at "spawn-in" and thus only changes when you change your suit or die Just like they do for vehicles and vehicle turret bonuses now. As for stress on databases... I don't know how CCP is currently doing it, but if they are doing it in a way that a small change like this would upset it, then they have larger issues than this to deal with in the code. Afterall, in EVE they have ginormous databases, that go back to the original day of the game's release over 10 years ago and include more players and their equipment and ships etc that number thousands more than anything we've ever seen in this game. So I'm certain solutions exist.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 206	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:26:00 - [5] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: I agree the coding would be difficult, but I don't think it's as convoluted as creating a completely new wireframe mesh model for every possible combination... Instead just use 'scaling'. So use the same model the suit has now, just add in a scaling factor of some percentage (ie. 5% penalty = a 1.05 scaling factor etc.). Done. As for "dynamic", it wouldn't be. It's set at "spawn-in" and thus only changes when you change your suit or die Just like they do for vehicles and vehicle turret bonuses now. As for stress on databases... I don't know how CCP is currently doing it, but if they are doing it in a way that a small change like this would upset it, then they have larger issues than this to deal with in the code. Afterall, in EVE they have ginormous databases, that go back to the original day of the game's release over 10 years ago and include more players and their equipment and ships etc that number thousands more than anything we've ever seen in this game. So I'm certain solutions exist. You realize all the horrible things that would happen if hitbox was scaled up? Forget about climbing hills or waking under stairs. And as IWS pointed out, there will be many instances where the head would be occluded and a person would be immune to headshots from certain angles.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 13863	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:40:00 - [6] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Here's a thought: Target has more extenders -> you get more aim assist Lore explanation: Shield extenders use so much energy they actually attract bullets So low HP and easier to hit? The whole point of Shields in a fire fight is increased mobility at the cost of HP. And that lore explanation is BS as it would affect bullet magnetism, not Aim Assist. Not only that, but it would also mean that any teammate with a Shield Extender would be TK'd repeatedly if you were firing at enemies near him/her. --- I don't normally say this, but you're an idiot. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 859	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:31:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Here's a thought: Target has more extenders -> you get more aim assist Lore explanation: Shield extenders use so much energy they actually attract bullets So low HP and easier to hit? The whole point of Shields in a fire fight is increased mobility at the cost of HP. And that lore explanation is BS as it would affect bullet magnetism, not Aim Assist. Not only that, but it would also mean that any teammate with a Shield Extender would be TK'd repeatedly if you were firing at enemies near him/her. --- I don't normally say this, but you're an idiot. You should upgrade your Sarcasm Detector. The ADV one has a better scan precision.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2058	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:37:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Quit asking. Hitboxes are not dynamic. changing them requires direct alteration of the wireframe mesh of the character model. They cannot be dynamic unless you make a different character model for every possible extender combination. This puts undue stress on the database because of the number of calls the game has to make already. Now imagine adding another 40 or so separate character models in for each dropsuit to account for all of the hitboxes. That's exactly what you would have to do, add different models with minutely different invisible characteristics. To account for every single possible combination of MLT/STD/ADV/PRO extenders you can possibly imagine. So no, extenders cannot expand hitboxes. anyone suggesting it is either trolling or ignorant. either hitbox or nothing cause it will just be a stupid proxy nerf to non scouts while gal scout remains the #1 FOTM scout now which is ARMOR TANK. simple answer is just nerf scouts strafe speed to that of medium suits and LOCK it.. scouts are supposed to be undetectable and fast in a straight line to get to where they need to go, faster. i have not had any problems hitting medium suits at all.. its just scouts with their stupidly tiny hitboxes AND strafe speed coupled with netcode and hit detection which is the problem.. so nerf strafe speed.. if that dosnt work.. increase hitbox a bit.. if that dosnt work increase some more.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2058	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:40:00 - [9] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Here's a thought: Target has more extenders -> you get more aim assist Lore explanation: Shield extenders use so much energy they actually attract bullets nowp they use a fair amount of energy to REPEL bullets.. thats why projectiles dont work too well vs shield, plasma works somewhat decent as its a form of energy.. and lasers work the best because its not physical its just light and you would need planet sized magnetosphere to effectivly have ANY effect on light/photons at all [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
korrah silain True Illuminate 11	Posted - 2014.11.22 10:40:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Quit asking. Hitboxes are not dynamic. changing them requires direct alteration of the wireframe mesh of the character model. They cannot be dynamic unless you make a different character model for every possible extender combination. This puts undue stress on the database because of the number of calls the game has to make already. Now imagine adding another 40 or so separate character models in for each dropsuit to account for all of the hitboxes. That's exactly what you would have to do, add different models with minutely different invisible characteristics. To account for every single possible combination of MLT/STD/ADV/PRO extenders you can possibly imagine. So no, extenders cannot expand hitboxes. anyone suggesting it is either trolling or ignorant. This is more idle curiosity than actually wanting to do it because dynamic hitboxes don't interest me but solving hypothetical does In another thread someone made a suggestion about the shields actually being a bubble and it being destroyed when its down. Could the coding be done then to simply emulate this by having a bubble shield (like halo for example...they had one right?) Centered on the character whose size is then (optionally) increased by a percentage based on equipped moduals? Again, purely hypothetical, just wondering.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5242	Posted - 2014.11.22 10:50:00 - [11] - Quote In theory yes. In practice a lot of core mechanics have to change. Never mind the fact that a bubble makes shields abominable for defense because you wouldn't really have to aim to bring down someone's primary defenses. While an interesting idea the ideas create more mechanical and balance issues than they solve. Similarly players who want an EWAR penalty on shields don't get that given the comparative uselessness of anything but a scout in EWAR the shirld penalty would have to create a stacking 50% ish penalty for a scout to show up on an assault scanner. Just like you cannot dampen an assault or sentinel below an unbuffed scout's sensors or buss an assault or sentinel to detect an unmodded scout, adding an ewar penalty for shields creates a net change of ZERO to the problem. Especially when shield suits are the easiest ones to pull off the strafing glitches. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Nirwanda Vaughns 966	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:29:00 - [12] - Quote Back in the day i remember when shield extenders increased your signature profile that'd be an interesting dynamic to bring back Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
korrah silain True Illuminate 11	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:35:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: In theory yes. In practice a lot of core mechanics have to change. Never mind the fact that a bubble makes shields abominable for defense because you wouldn't really have to aim to bring down someone's primary defenses. While an interesting idea the ideas create more mechanical and balance issues than they solve. Similarly players who want an EWAR penalty on shields don't get that given the comparative uselessness of anything but a scout in EWAR the shirld penalty would have to create a stacking 50% ish penalty for a scout to show up on an assault scanner. Just like you cannot dampen an assault or sentinel below an unbuffed scout's sensors or buss an assault or sentinel to detect an unmodded scout, adding an ewar penalty for shields creates a net change of ZERO to the problem. Especially when shield suits are the easiest ones to pull off the strafing glitches. Again not interested in the concept beyond practical coding implementations, although with a small enough bubble...in a different game...it could be an interesting mechanic...
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5242	Posted - 2014.11.22 12:49:00 - [14] - Quote I absolutely agree. However we in the DUST forums as a collective whole do not have realistic expectations. Unfortunately this trait was fed and nourished by premature promises in times long past. Now here we are. I'm still impressed that after reading the DESTINY forum, I feel less dirty after reading the most rabidly idiotic post here than I do after reading some of the Destiny rants. Ignorance is rampant and consumers are still convinced that computers are confusing and arcane genie boxes that are supposed to grant wishes. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
korrah silain True Illuminate 11	Posted - 2014.11.23 11:37:00 - [15] - Quote Hey while we are discussing programing i have heard it suggested we add inirtia to fix strafing dance battles...well the drop ship demonstrates inertia (all vehicles do to some degree) can this be taken as an indication that implementing it for infantry is possible? And please play the proverbial Lucifer: forgive ignorance and bring light... I think buddah might have been the devil now that I think about it...
Espla El espia Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:24:00 - [16] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ignorance is rampant and consumers are still convinced that computers are confusing and arcane genie boxes that are supposed to grant wishes. My whole life is a lie... Being serious, I begin to wonder if the day will approach when it is an essential part of the public education to undertsand programming to some level, just like language or history, art or PE, science or math. As things stand, people will talk about many different things. Chances are, they have only mild passing interest in those things to make a shallow, self-pleasing statment in the sense that there is an obligation to say something, and they feel it is truly important and must be heard. What is not realized by anyone doing this, is that vastly different opinions or realities to your own can exist, and have a good chance of being right when you're wrong. I haven't read the Destiny forum, and I hope that I never have to. People that pick up DUST 514 aren't looking for a home-run game that has giant expectations. Generally speaking, if they stick to it and find out it has cool forums, then they're in it for the long run rather than 100% instant gratification.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:40:00 - [17] - Quote never said they could. but they cannot be made to affect movement in any way shape or form or else it breaks shield lore. end of discussion. it cant happen. call ccp rekya however the heck you spell it. ccp iceland. i want the ceo on the phone. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
korrah silain True Illuminate 11	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:51:00 - [18] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: never said they could. but they cannot be made to affect movement in any way shape or form or else it breaks shield lore. end of discussion. it cant happen. call ccp rekya however the heck you spell it. ccp iceland. i want the ceo on the phone. Rekyavick And there are plenty of explanations for potential shield extenders slowing us Like extra batteries/capaciters/whatever's slowing it down. Lore can never be broken, only extended upon.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5267	Posted - 2014.11.24 05:26:00 - [19] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: never said they could. but they cannot be made to affect movement in any way shape or form or else it breaks shield lore. end of discussion. it cant happen. call ccp rekya however the heck you spell it. ccp iceland. i want the ceo on the phone. Doesn't break lore. If it repulses incoming matter it creates movement friction. In space you don't have to worry about air creating friction, just micrometeor impacts. Lore doesn't matter when you change the variable from space to atmospheric and ground combat. They by definition CANNOT behave the same way EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5135	Posted - 2014.11.26 17:01:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Quit asking. Hitboxes are not dynamic. changing them requires direct alteration of the wireframe mesh of the character model. They cannot be dynamic unless you make a different character model for every possible extender combination. This puts undue stress on the database because of the number of calls the game has to make already. Now imagine adding another 40 or so separate character models in for each dropsuit to account for all of the hitboxes. That's exactly what you would have to do, add different models with minutely different invisible characteristics. To account for every single possible combination of MLT/STD/ADV/PRO extenders you can possibly imagine. So no, extenders cannot expand hitboxes. anyone suggesting it is either trolling or ignorant. What if shields and armor had different hit boxes, with armor conforming to the shape of your character, and shields being a uniform egg shape slightly larger than your character. It would make more sense for how shields work, and a uniform egg shape can be resized without difficulty. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.



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