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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1644
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Posted - 2014.11.18 04:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's exhausting and infuriating to see 12-14 unsquadded people on my team in *every* FW match.
I was initially against this, but after the past week of issues with cal FW and hearing similar complaints from min side I ultimately think this is necessary for FW to be a healthy viable game mode.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1901
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Posted - 2014.11.18 07:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
fac war was ment to be a place where you deploy your Q synced warriors. CCP ain't going to save you caldari bums.
KEQ diplomat/ lolromansboat cost more then your whole village
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137H4RGIC
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
361
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Posted - 2014.11.18 07:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wasn't Q Synching an exploitation? Or one of their "Unintended Game Designs that players meta'd with and is now part of the game...?" Obviously players can't answer this, only CPM and CCP can...
Reason for my query is that I had heard that Queue Synchronizing was an exploit.
I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together!
137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1646
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Posted - 2014.11.18 08:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Going forward I'd like to see faction warfare become an entirely 'unique' style of match for those really invested in it, allowing much like eve to fight over and potentially control the warzone. This idea is based off of a few parallels within eve.
1) Create 'priority' hubs (accessible on the star map) that allow players to pay LP into them to build up a target priority rating which once over a certain value causes matches generated to gravitate towards said system or region until the 'rating' is depleted (via successful defenses). 2) Allow players to access a priority queue, either by evaluating their investments into priority hubs or by allowing them to spend LP to get into a priority queue. A 'priority' squad leader drags their whole squad into the priority queue. Anyone not in a 'priority queue' gets the current 'anyone goes anywhere' type deployments. the main intent of points one and two is to allow players more agency over where they fight, should they actually want to exercise said agency
3) Cause successful attacks / defenses of districts to 'lock' the district for a short amount of time, eg. 30-45minutes. 4) If all districts on a planet are captured cause the planet to 'lock' for a moderate amount of time eg.8-24h (if a planet 'unlocks' a certain minimum threshold of districts must be re-secured in order to re-lock the planet). At this point anyone who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain value of 'active' priority matches would get some form of (small) payout 5) If all planets in a system are 'locked' the whole system locks for a moderate amount of time eg. 3days. (a single relocked planet wouldn't relock the system). At this point a payout is awarded to those who paid into a priority hub and participated in a certain number of 'active' priority matches.
Overall I feel like this would serve to make FW a more 'engaging' game mode and make players really excited to fight for their respective faction. I understand that this is highly unlikely to ever be possible with dusts current design or team, but I feel like sharing the idea anyway.
Might end up simply removing this post if it takes away from discussion.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5099
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Posted - 2014.11.18 08:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
137H4RGIC wrote:Wasn't Q Synching an exploitation? Or one of their "Unintended Game Designs that players meta'd with and is now part of the game...?" Obviously players can't answer this, only CPM and CCP can...
Reason for my query is that I had heard that Queue Synchronizing was an exploit.
There is a wide gulf of difference between an exploit and buncha forum warriors being pissed off that you can do it.
This is a case of the latter. FW was always stomp central, no getting around it. Now people are absolutely outraged about it precisely because losing in facwar is a thorough waste of booster aurum so they're getting crap payout for massive effort.
The second part is CCP put in something worth going after.
And now they are stuck getting crapped on while the enemy consistently gets easy wins.
So rather than organizing, forming facwar corps squadding up and responding in kind they are screaming that it is unfair that the enemy stack the odds in their favor.
Its basically the mating call of the no-cooperation-ever forum warriors.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1646
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Posted - 2014.11.18 09:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
^I have made many attempts to get people working together. It doesn't happen. One cannot force people to cooperate. In fact the overwhelming response from people who identify as and fight for the caldari has seemingly been to troll and make personal attacks against anyone who TRIES to foster a sense of cooperation and community, everything operates behind closed doors and suffers from massive backbiting.
People will always gravitate heavily to the side they feel is already going to win. My proposal still allows for 'queue syncing' but it prioritizes placing them in matches against other 'queue syncs'. As it stands queue syncing is outright toxic to a game mode that's already on life support.
These 'desireable' items are the proverbial canary in the mine for the faction warfare game mode and everything seemingly points to something being terribly wrong with the current system. I'll be one of the first to admit that I was initially against the idea of MU based matchmaking being added to FW... and now I'm beginning to think that more than anything, FW needs some level of matchmaking.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14747
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Posted - 2014.11.18 10:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:137H4RGIC wrote:Wasn't Q Synching an exploitation? Or one of their "Unintended Game Designs that players meta'd with and is now part of the game...?" Obviously players can't answer this, only CPM and CCP can...
Reason for my query is that I had heard that Queue Synchronizing was an exploit. There is a wide gulf of difference between an exploit and buncha forum warriors being pissed off that you can do it. This is a case of the latter. FW was always stomp central, no getting around it. Now people are absolutely outraged about it precisely because losing in facwar is a thorough waste of booster aurum so they're getting crap payout for massive effort. The second part is CCP put in something worth going after. And now they are stuck getting crapped on while the enemy consistently gets easy wins. So rather than organizing, forming facwar corps squadding up and responding in kind they are screaming that it is unfair that the enemy stack the odds in their favor. Its basically the mating call of the no-cooperation-ever forum warriors.
The only concerns I have with making changes to FW and the detractors of the "Q-Sync" simply because I do not want FW in Dust to devolve into another pointless soloist public match paradise with different rewards.
In EVE FW means something. It requires corporate co-ordinations and inter corporate co-operation. Large groups flying together are more tactically flexible and generally yield better results than solo pilots, it is a community based activity.
I fear if Syncs are labelled unintended game mechanics that dedicated FW corporations and players will suffer. In the former case especially groups like PCLAS who can have excess of six players on at a time. I ask why is it so wrong that we all want to engage in our chosen activity as a concerted team?
Will post later with response to OP.
"The moment passed in thunder and calamitous intent and yet no order was given to retreat or give their ground"
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1647
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Posted - 2014.11.18 11:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
^I think the idea of team deployments / patrols has merit True, but I sincerely feel that with the lack of matchmaking that currently exists queue syncing is gaming the system.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5100
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Posted - 2014.11.18 11:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
People who decry squads and q-syncing usually suffer from some delusion that their level of skill is higher than it actually is. They believe that squads arrayed against them introduces some sort of artificial imbalance.
Nine times out of ten if you lose to an organized squad of FA or something you will also lose to the disorganized, donut chasing, team killing, no f*cks given methods of goonfeet.
Because just having someone on comms who will dive on that tank like a pitbull on a pork chop when you utter it's location (shooting at you, usually) is IMMENSELY helpful. Same if you're running AV and you need that motivated minassault ganked rapidly.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
319
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Posted - 2014.11.18 11:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
What I suggested is that you are only able to solo que for FW this allows que syncing, but also insures some blueberries can make it into the mix. Since we sit around for 60s before each match we have time to form parties of course there is a chance it may have no effect if the player base is to low already.
About the Fw only being stomps lol thats funny because before the apex suits It was all I played when there wasn't an event happening and matches were seldom as one sided... unless you played ck because they always had to many snipers.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
319
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Posted - 2014.11.18 11:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
What I suggested is that you are only able to solo que for FW this allows que syncing, but also insures some blueberries can make it into the mix. Since we sit around for 60s before each match we have time to form parties of course there is a chance it may have no effect if the player base is to low already.
About the Fw only being stomps lol thats funny because before the apex suits It was all I played when there wasn't an event happening and matches were seldom as one sided... unless you played ck because they always had to many snipers.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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g li2
Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION
379
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Posted - 2014.11.18 12:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
The war factions is for players who want to play as a team
I think so
CHACALES
¡¡ HONOR !!
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Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
1302
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Posted - 2014.11.18 12:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Q sync
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14760
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:^I think the idea of team deployments / patrols has merit True, but I sincerely feel that with the lack of matchmaking that currently exists queue syncing is gaming the system.
That is true but there is no reason a team should be prevented from entering FW because the opposition lacks the capacity to respond.
"The moment passed in thunder and calamitous intent and yet no order was given to retreat or give their ground"
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
546
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Posted - 2014.11.18 17:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
lol OP is a moron. Ya know what happends if you add skill based matchmaking on top of the allready long que time? You are going to wait even longer to get into a match. is that what you want? Make the pain to actually get into a FW match even worse? Sure thing go ahead and add it to FW thats gonna work, you tard.
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
321
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bright up until this point I thought you were smarter than that no need to insult people m8. Why would it make ques longer its still the same pool just randomized instead of 2.5 que synced squads you would end up with a synqed squad and bluberries or if there was no blueberries 2.5 synced squads. The reason your ques take so long is because the band wagon is over populated 4 way ques are almost instant.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
323
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bright up until this point I thought you were smarter than that no need to insult people m8. Why would it make ques longer its still the same pool just randomized instead of 2.5 que synced squads you would end up with a synqed squad and bluberries or if there was no blueberries 2.5 synced squads. The reason your ques take so long is because the band wagon is over populated 4 way ques are almost instant.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Middas Betancore
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mu matchmaking, interesting,
If it works in pubs...it can work in fw, though only with enoug players in q, but with 20 new apex suits at 100k each, plus an upcoming expanse to the LP store, q numbers may be enough. The desired effect would be, strong fight strong, with weaker or unsquadded players filling the gaps
I feel team deploy would be a better fix, more so if the system can match patrols against each other
Overall im lead to the thought perhaps both systems implemented together would achieve a agreeable result.
That would be if one agreed with the idea that FW needs matchmaking......
Mercenary for hire
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback
1162
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
This would be literally impossible. Nope.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Middas Betancore
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.11.18 18:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sound reasoning fizzer, truly a scholar and a gentleman...GJ Sir
Matchmaking by mu in pubs has the same desired effect in fw
The more experienced/stronger/more organised players fight against each other
Though the key difference in FW is that ppl choose a side before hand, more players may be queueing for one side than other
Using a simple E-S class rating system and a rough number of active players
100 queue for gallente of various ratings from E-S
50 queue for caldari of various mu ratings from E-S
To begin it takes 16 from each q to form the highest mu for each team possible Deploys them
It then tales the next 16 players from each queue making it the highest combined mu rating per team
And so on, so each game has as an overall mu rating, that mu rating could effect LP payout....but I digress
Still if there are 16 good players in q for one side and 50 bad players on another, c'est la guerre non?
Though with a higher player count on FW, and a type of patrol deploy implemented.
I firmly believe We WILL see matches balanced by statistical ability and possible organization
Mercenary for hire
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback
13783
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Of all the idodic ideas on this forum board I've ever read, this one HAS to take the cake. After reading the OP I can offically say that I'm ashamed and embarrased to be a DUST 514 player
For starters, I have a very hard time believing that Minmatar FW players are complaining about getting stomped considering how (unlike the Caldari) their Militia is actually organized and at the risk of sounding crude, stomping. If you could however, please tell us at least 16 Matari players who were complaigning about FW to the point where Mu matchmaking is needed.
FW is supposed to reward an organized team over solo players, as it's main point (only point, really) is to work with your Militia to further the goals and objectives of your Faction. It is not a place for disorganized and terrible players to farm LP with ease. If you want to be rewarded for playing, then you should be "stacking teams" as your opposing Militia is likely to do the same (something you should be familiar with as a dedicated FW player).
---
1. The reason why FW isn't as popular as PUBs is simply because most players are already invested into the gear they want, and can fair better off the welfare checks ISK payouts in PUBs.
2. The only "rare" items in the LP store require Operation V, meaning that new players wouldn't be able to access them anyways. Not that a new player should be participating in FW as they won't have the ability to contribute to their team.
3. That could easily be solved with a change to EOM payouts.
4. That behavior is found in all game-modes, however when I'm in MM I haven't seen anyone using the tactics that you described (except EQ spam, which is being addressed atm). Not to mention that it's very counterproductive as it increases the amount of time the match takes.
5. Could easily be solved by implementing "Patrols" and making them the only ones able to send attacks to FW districts.
6. I've seen q-syncs from corps of many different races and ethnicities, be it American, British, Brazilian, Japanese, Latino, French, etc. I'm fairly positive that the language barrier in FW isn't significant enough to be an issue.
You do realize that Mu isn't a matchmaker, but a team-balancer right? Meaning, the first 16 players who que for one faction are still going to be placed in the same match, but simply have their squads in a different order.
That wouldn't do anything to change the current situation.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Middas Betancore
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
While I agree FW should reward organisation
The not organised or inexperienced could get a helping hand from mu matchmaking, not exactly the same system but perhaps something very similar
Try and look past which race is saying this and try and see it as an effort to improve the quality of matches in FW
The incentivisation of FW is a separate issue and something im sure the devs are working hard to implement
The patrol deploy is an idea that would undoubtedly benefit FW and make people more inclined to play it Performance related bonuses would also help, but may encourage non-tactical farming of wp
A style of mu matchmaking may help fill the gaps between synced teams, making it a more pleasant experience for newer or solo players
Mercenary for hire
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Middas Betancore
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2014.11.18 19:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
I find myself leaning away from the idea of matchmaking
Mainly as it should be a game mode that should reward organisation, but we need more tools to organise
However there should still be access and playability to less organised/experienced players, mu based matchmaking may provide a better experience for all
Im just exploring the concept, FW is what I love in this game, im interested in how it develops
Mercenary for hire
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1652
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Of all the idodic ideas on this forum board I've ever read, this one HAS to take the cake. After reading the OP I can offically say that I'm ashamed and embarrased to be a DUST 514 player
For starters, I have a very hard time believing that Minmatar FW players are complaining about getting stomped considering how (unlike the Caldari) their Militia is actually organized and at the risk of sounding crude, stomping. If you could however, please tell us at least 16 Matari players who were complaigning about FW to the point where Mu matchmaking is needed.
So we'll start out with personal attacks and absolutely inane demands? Well, I don't really find it all that surprising that you'd decry this Atiim largely because you're already part of groups who sync and have a lot to benefit from maintaining the status quo. You represent the term 'conflict of interest' in its entirety.
In fact when I see anyone issue a complaint about faction warfare, it seems to be a large group of people that are associated with existing faction lines that jump on whoever dared complain and spam posts that mostly amount to 'get gud', aka a large group of people who already benefit disproportionately from 'abuse' of current mechanics want to keep things exactly as they are. We totally haven't seen that anywhere else in this game before, not at all, not even in PC where trillions of isk was generated /sarcasm.
Atiim wrote:1. The reason why FW isn't as popular as PUBs is simply because most players are already invested into the gear they want, and can fair better off the welfare checks ISK payouts in PUBs.
2. The only "rare" items in the LP store require Operation V, meaning that new players wouldn't be able to access them anyways. Not that a new player should be participating in FW as they won't have the ability to contribute to their team.
3. That could easily be solved with a change to EOM payouts.
4. That behavior is found in all game-modes, however when I'm in MM I haven't seen anyone using the tactics that you described (except EQ spam, which is being addressed atm). Not to mention that it's very counterproductive as it increases the amount of time the match takes.
5. Could easily be solved by implementing "Patrols" and making them the only ones able to send attacks to FW districts.
6. I've seen q-syncs from corps of many different races and ethnicities, be it American, British, Brazilian, Japanese, Latino, French, etc. I'm fairly positive that the language barrier in FW isn't significant enough to be an issue.
1) "I want to keep faction warfare a place where only people with a lot of isk to spend can play" 2) "I'm completely ignoring the items that are essentially AUR equivalent" 3) This is prettymuch your only reasonable statement, but it in no way provides any meaningful feedback on topics/proposals that I've raised. 4) "If I pretend that often-commented upon poor behaviour doesn't exist, it doesn't exist!" 5) I made a suggestion about patrols being a method of play available to facwar as well. 6) The majority of those players are either part of large corporations, or relatively close knit communities and even then I see far less queue syncs or squads from non-English speakers than I do from English speakers.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14778
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Of all the idodic ideas on this forum board I've ever read, this one HAS to take the cake. After reading the OP I can offically say that I'm ashamed and embarrased to be a DUST 514 player
For starters, I have a very hard time believing that Minmatar FW players are complaining about getting stomped considering how (unlike the Caldari) their Militia is actually organized and at the risk of sounding crude, stomping. If you could however, please tell us at least 16 Matari players who were complaigning about FW to the point where Mu matchmaking is needed.
FW is supposed to reward an organized team over solo players, as it's main point (only point, really) is to work with your Militia to further the goals and objectives of your Faction. It is not a place for disorganized and terrible players to farm LP with ease. If you want to be rewarded for playing, then you should be "stacking teams" as your opposing Militia is likely to do the same (something you should be familiar with as a dedicated FW player).
---
1. The reason why FW isn't as popular as PUBs is simply because most players are already invested into the gear they want, and can fair better off the welfare checks ISK payouts in PUBs.
2. The only "rare" items in the LP store require Operation V, meaning that new players wouldn't be able to access them anyways. Not that a new player should be participating in FW as they won't have the ability to contribute to their team.
3. That could easily be solved with a change to EOM payouts.
4. That behavior is found in all game-modes, however when I'm in MM I haven't seen anyone using the tactics that you described (except EQ spam, which is being addressed atm). Not to mention that it's very counterproductive as it increases the amount of time the match takes.
5. Could easily be solved by implementing "Patrols" and making them the only ones able to send attacks to FW districts.
6. I've seen q-syncs from corps of many different races and ethnicities, be it American, British, Brazilian, Japanese, Latino, French, etc. I'm fairly positive that the language barrier in FW isn't significant enough to be an issue.
You do realize that Mu isn't a matchmaker, but a team-balancer right? Meaning, the first 16 players who que for one faction are still going to be placed in the same match, but simply have their squads in a different order.
That wouldn't do anything to change the current situation.
No your Militia is having its ass reamed by the 24th Crusade
Were T4 to your T1. Since Dust bonuses do not matter and the star map is transient and ever changing based on TZ its the only way to measure who is actually doing better.
"The moment passed in thunder and calamitous intent and yet no order was given to retreat or give their ground"
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
5959
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Isn't this assuming that Mu is working in the first place?
Thunderbolt. verb and noun.
"James thunderbolted in his pants."
"I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1655
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Isn't this assuming that Mu is working in the first place?
Presumably it is.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1665
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Posted - 2014.11.19 22:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
bump
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1693
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Posted - 2014.11.28 10:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
bump
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
444
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Posted - 2014.11.28 12:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Please implement mu matchmaking in fw You may give use here good arguments, but implementing MU on FW is not the solution.
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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