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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
995
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Posted - 2014.11.17 16:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:It can be quite frustrating to try and start a dialogue about the changes, and the majority of replies is: "wtf, so this is going to happen, that's terrible because I heard these numbers were, like, set in stone" "I have great ideas but noone listens so I am not going to post them" or "I thought we were also doing this other thing" Why not just post "I think we should do this because then this will be balanced" or "I see you posted these preliminary numbers and I think this would be a better set of numbers" Just sayin' 
Are you calling me out? #shotsfired I'm posting on one of your feedback threads.
There are some things that stand out to me about this suggestion as a whole:
- It's going to be super hard and time-consuming to balance. Under the described system you go from tracking 3 interrelated values to tracking 7. There's a lot of room over the span of the entire EWAR module base, suit bonuses, etc. to slip up and insert something that obsoletes whatever complexity is left in the rest of the system.
- Your "it's pretty straightforward" in the OP is charming, because it's certainly a straightforward concept to understand for people already acquainted with EWAR. I wouldn't be so sure that EWAR even without additional numbers to track is easy to explain to anyone who doesn't want to read up on it. Also, even if the CONCEPT may be straightforward, the battlefield effects are anything but straightforward. I think it's a major detriment to this system that it would induce a scenario where it's very difficult to understand why a particular person was or was not visible to you at any given point in time. There become an even bigger number of potential combinations of things which could give a particular result. That limits dynamic gear-switching as a response to current battle conditions, since you really won't ever know what kind of thing you would need to "fix" your current EWAR problem.
- There's no benefit to being conditionally visible for medium frames if they're still going to be pinged out by scouts most of the time. If you're concerned about being stealthy, scouts are very viable. Sacrificing slots on a medium frame is a huge penalty. Why not just go to scout, get the speed boost, and be even HARDER to spot? Even if mediums become "conditionally visible", this is a significantly less useful state than being "essentially invisible" (current scouts).
Say I'm an assault player, and I fit a profile dampener under this new system. I now get a "jump" advantage on other assaults, lose some amount of utility vs scouts (since they can see me and negate my dampener), and still have a "jump" advantage on heavies. It's just not a winning proposition.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
997
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Posted - 2014.11.18 22:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
No. No, there isn't. Medframes are not even remotely close to competing in this environment.
They are SUPPOSED to be EWAR kings, having sacrificed SIGNIFICANT HP in order to do so.
Dude, scouts get speed boosts and cloaks as well.
This preconception that scouts should easily be able to be invisible all the time at all ranges with zero drawbacks is absurd. Frankly I feel confident in saying that the game would be a lot more enjoyable if everyone passive scanned everyone else with 12-15m of each other.
I guess all the shotgunning has gone to some scouts players' heads. The class is stealthy so that you can use your stealth to get a tactical advantage before you engage, and so that you can be where your opponent is not. It's not so that you can sneak up to within 2 inches of someone, off them with a shotgun, and run away without their having a chance of spotting you. That's not gameplay, nor skill. If you can't use your invisibility on the map to get into a good position at 15m and then take advantage, then you probably just shouldn't be playing scout.
Should scouts have an EWAR advantage? I think that's fair. Should scouts be the only viable EWAR class (essentially what gets suggested over and over)? No. Should EWAR grant infinite invisibility? Also no.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
999
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Posted - 2014.11.18 23:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:@ Zatara Rought
Scouts post-1.8 are certainly overpowered. But what's your basis for claiming that pre-1.8 scouts were VERY much viable?
Without going into a much more detailed post... Because in the most competitive PC matches...3-4 scouts were used on either side. When team composition was being determined...where NOW the question is "do we have enough scouts and heavies?" the question then was "do we have enough heavies?" "who we have enough logi's?" "do we have enough scouts?" Scouts were an integral part of PC meta. Now...they've been buffed to the point they are the only integral part of any PC team aside from heavies. BTW FTFY 
I was the hipster scout-using FC before it was cool, so I can say the following with confidence. In a competitive environment the SPEED of the scout suit is a huge tactical advantage when applied appropriately. Scouts can quickly get into strange positions, place uplinks, and then vanish. They can get to that outside letter. And they can guard exterior letters pretty effective as well with modest EWAR bonuses, because they can hide 20+m away from an objective and then pop out of hiding when someone hacks it.
Most of this usage scenarios have vanished in the past year and half as these aspects of scout gameplay have been replaced with the rather bizarre mind set that scouts should be a combat-primary class, and should be able to get within sneezing distance of people without the slightest sign. The cloak has had something to do with this, but so have EWAR changes that almost completely obsoleted any scanning except scout passive scanning.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1014
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Posted - 2014.11.21 04:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:I completely agree with Fox's statement.
Zatara previously mentioned that, among other reasons, he liked the cloak because it gave players an active means of changing their scan profile. I believe that Fox's change would be the next best thing for other suits, allowing them to dynamically (On a suit-to-suit basis) change their scan profile.
However, I do think that one addition needs to be made: We should have combat actions like shooting and sprinting increase your scanning profile and dot size, and passive actions like crouching or standing still decrease your scanning profile and dot size.
I like the idea of a Heavy deceiving other players into thinking it is a medium suit by wearing dampeners. However, I would also like an Assault to deceive other players into thinking it was a heavy because it did actions to enlarge its dot size
Yes, this would be the actually logical way to implement this. But y'know resource constraints.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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