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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
41
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Posted - 2014.11.13 06:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
ISK from clone sales needs to return. It was never unearned or passive. Defending your district is rewarded with keeping that district. The only time it generated revenue was if others decided not to attack you.
What corporation makes revenue by taxing its own employees? Do people at CCP pay the company to work there? A corporation that doesn't provide anything to turn revenue makes zero sense.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
729
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Posted - 2014.11.13 08:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah, "Passive ISK" is basically a weasel phrase. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4931
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Posted - 2014.11.13 08:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
I suppose district locking was a lie too.
1/10
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
44
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Posted - 2014.11.13 16:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Locked districts don't generate ISK. Trying to police exploits by punishing everyone is pointless. Because farming still happens. Cheaters and exploiters will always find a way. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3488
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Posted - 2014.11.13 16:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:ISK from clone sales needs to return. It was never unearned or passive. Defending your district is rewarded with keeping that district. The only time it generated revenue was if others decided not to attack you.
What corporation makes revenue by taxing its own employees? Do people at CCP pay the company to work there? A corporation that doesn't provide anything to turn revenue makes zero sense.
No a corporation provides goods and services in exchange for money. They don't just break into the office building, kill the current owners, and sit on the money printing machine.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
44
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Posted - 2014.11.13 16:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Her Chosen wrote:ISK from clone sales needs to return. It was never unearned or passive. Defending your district is rewarded with keeping that district. The only time it generated revenue was if others decided not to attack you.
What corporation makes revenue by taxing its own employees? Do people at CCP pay the company to work there? A corporation that doesn't provide anything to turn revenue makes zero sense.
No a corporation provides goods and services in exchange for money. They don't just break into the office building, kill the current owners, and sit on the money printing machine.
So what goods or service do we produce? Since DUST development has pretty much stopped. Another Corp is going to tax its members to pay my Corp to take a district for the that will have zero return investment?
PC was a shell game mode. Now, its worse, because its driven by ego. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2165
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Posted - 2014.11.13 16:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Every corp charges a tax internally. It's called SG&A. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4713
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Posted - 2014.11.13 16:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Not. Happening.
No Effort, No Money.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
44
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Posted - 2014.11.13 16:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Not. Happening.
No Effort, No Money.
Really? Defending and keeping our districts didn't take effort? Because another corporation chose not to attack me, I don't get ISK for their lack of effort?
Public Contracts nets more ISK/hr than PC.
Your flawed view of district ISK generation ruined the shell of the end game even more
How about another super donut filled with farm corps to change your mind. Remember, a handful of corps control PC and decides who plays and who doesn't. Its no different than jealous people who look at big corporation CEOs and see how rich they are and for some reason assume it took no effort or sacrifice to reach that level of power... |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3488
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Posted - 2014.11.13 16:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Not. Happening.
No Effort, No Money. Really? Defending and keeping our districts didn't take effort? Because another corporation chose not to attack me, I don't get ISK for their lack of effort? Public Contracts nets more ISK/hr than PC. Your flawed view of district ISK generation ruined the shell of the end game even more How about another super donut filled with farm corps to change your mind. Remember, a handful of corps control PC and decides who plays and who doesn't. Its no different than jealous people who look at big corporation CEOs and see how rich they are and for some reason assume it took no effort or sacrifice to reach that level of power...
You don't get the real problem at hand. The fact is that the district generated ISK out of thin air without direct interaction. The fact that the districts produced ISK directly is fundamentally flawed. In a system which is supposed to be based around scarcity of resources, having a system which literally can produce ISK, the most liquid of resources, is bad. In fact with the way it was set up, you actually made MORE money if you didn't have to put effort in because ISK generation was tied directly to clones, and in not using them you gained a bigger profit.
If you wanted a system which produced non liquid resources which required player interaction in order to TRADE for more liquid resources with other players, as well as require constant work to keep that resource flow going, then sure. But you're defending a system which pays more if the system as a whole stagnates. That's fundamentally broken, and cannot be fixed without the introduction of additional support systems.
Take Nullsec for example. Yes its a blue donut, but there is no function in Nullsec which just prints out ISK, even if the group is actively defending territory. What Nullsec offers is *access to resources* which have to manually gathered, processed, shipped, and sold in order to make ISK off of them. You actually have to actively DO something in order to profit from owning territory in Nullsec. So in reality the old PC was even more screwed up than EVE Nullsec, and that's saying something.
Also I wont get into a political discussion over this, but I work hard very week, and a CEO probably make 1,000 times more a year than I do. Do you really think he puts in 1,000 times the effort I do to earn that equivalent amount of money? Of course not, that's humanly impossible, which is why THAT system is also fundamentally broken.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
460
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Posted - 2014.11.13 21:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Not. Happening.
No Effort, No Money. Public Contracts nets more ISK/hr than PC.
Absolutley incorrect. Those pub payouts people were wetting themselves over the day 1.9 released are the sort of numbers we get paid in PC for wins, on the low end. On the high, 5-7million is not uncommon.
Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD RUST415
449
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Posted - 2014.11.13 21:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
The facts keep slapping us in the face when it comes to PC. Yes there should be a reason to fight for them. No small corps should not be shut out. How do we do that? That's the question we should be bashing each other over. How do we make PC worth the effort for small corps as well as large ones? How do we as a community convince CCP that PC needs an overhaul?
If a small corp pays 50 mil isk to attack a more experienced corp it's basically a waste of 50 mil tax isk. They will get stomped to sleep. If they pay experienced ringers for help they may get the district, but will have to pay ringers continuously to keep it, and to what end? What do they get by having it other than broke, more fights, and not enough revenue return?!
The cash you spend to take and hold the district far outweighs what our make on it currently. You have to win fights repeatedly for months! Where are those fights coming from? Newbies?
"Anybody order chaos?"
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4529
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
I stopped reading at pubs are more profitable than PC was..... that was hilarious.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
2085
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yeah...
No.
Because you wanted to be something you're not.
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hfderrtgvcd
1156
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Posted - 2014.11.13 22:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Her Chosen wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Not. Happening.
No Effort, No Money. Public Contracts nets more ISK/hr than PC. Absolutley incorrect. Those pub payouts people were wetting themselves over the day 1.9 released are the sort of numbers we get paid in PC for wins, on the low end. On the high, 5-7million is not uncommon. Thats absolute bullshit. I play pc at least 3 times a week and I've only seen payouts higher than 5 million twice.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
730
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Her Chosen wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Not. Happening.
No Effort, No Money. Really? Defending and keeping our districts didn't take effort? Because another corporation chose not to attack me, I don't get ISK for their lack of effort? Public Contracts nets more ISK/hr than PC. Your flawed view of district ISK generation ruined the shell of the end game even more How about another super donut filled with farm corps to change your mind. Remember, a handful of corps control PC and decides who plays and who doesn't. Its no different than jealous people who look at big corporation CEOs and see how rich they are and for some reason assume it took no effort or sacrifice to reach that level of power... You don't get the real problem at hand. The fact is that the district generated ISK out of thin air without direct interaction. The fact that the districts produced ISK directly is fundamentally flawed. In a system which is supposed to be based around scarcity of resources, having a system which literally can produce ISK, the most liquid of resources, is bad. In fact with the way it was set up, you actually made MORE money if you didn't have to put effort in because ISK generation was tied directly to clones, and in not using them you gained a bigger profit. If you wanted a system which produced non liquid resources which required player interaction in order to TRADE for more liquid resources with other players, as well as require constant work to keep that resource flow going, then sure. But you're defending a system which pays more if the system as a whole stagnates. That's fundamentally broken, and cannot be fixed without the introduction of additional support systems. Take Nullsec for example. Yes its a blue donut, but there is no function in Nullsec which just prints out ISK, even if the group is actively defending territory. What Nullsec offers is *access to resources* which have to manually gathered, processed, shipped, and sold in order to make ISK off of them. You actually have to actively DO something in order to profit from owning territory in Nullsec. So in reality the old PC was even more screwed up than EVE Nullsec, and that's saying something. Also I wont get into a political discussion over this, but I work hard very week, and a CEO probably make 1,000 times more a year than I do. Do you really think he puts in 1,000 times the effort I do to earn that equivalent amount of money? Of course not, that's humanly impossible, which is why THAT system is also fundamentally broken.
You, along with many others, raise valid points in that there should be more involved to generate ISK from a district.
But many of the great ideas around that are very far away as it requires a lot of design, coding, ui rework, and in some cases tighter Eve economy integration, none of which is happening in the near future.
Selling clones automatically was a pragmatic way to make taking/holding land matter, and it generated lots of content, and the removal of that mechanic without anything meaningful to replace it killed the high-end content.
You state that the previous system was "stagnant", but it's the REMOVAL of automatic clone sales that led to the longest stagnant period in the game, the period we're currently in.
With locking fixed, a re-introduction of the clone sale mechanic would generate wars again.
People have to let go of their dogmatic perception of what "passive" ISK was, and be pragmatic about breathing life into this game. |
137H4RGIC
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
292
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think pc should be redesigned as a whole before we reintroduce "passive isk"
I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together!
137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD RUST415
451
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Posted - 2014.11.14 00:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
137H4RGIC wrote:I think pc should be redesigned as a whole before we reintroduce "passive isk"
This!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
381
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Posted - 2014.11.14 01:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seems to me that the held districts should produce something. Maybe not isk -- but something.
Like resources? Or the ability to manufacture resources? Then sell them to the EVE folks? |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2001
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Posted - 2014.11.14 02:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
I love how the op's post so clearly demonstrates her lack of understanding with regards to the nature of of in either its current or former states. Hillarious!
Now with more evil.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
1179
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Posted - 2014.11.14 03:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote: Thats absolute bullshit. I play pc at least 3 times a week and I've only seen payouts higher than 5 million twice.
Your team must suck at killing clones then
Amarrica!
killed again has ebola
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DarthPlagueis TheWise
384
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Posted - 2014.11.14 03:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
"lol i'm a forum alt, give big PC corps more money, lolol"
F*k this cash grab fix the shit that matters: unkillable uplinks, invisible remotes on null cannon hack panels, etc.
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Mr Machine Guns
927
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Posted - 2014.11.14 05:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
district need a way to make isk for corps what i would like to see is each district produces items or material that eve players and dust players can use, so the items the district produces gets sent to a market where players buy them and the corp makes isk. So a corp makes isk only when an items are bought on the market. |
Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3111
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Posted - 2014.11.14 10:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
[facepalm]
OP: Please biomass your character.
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
315
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Posted - 2014.11.14 11:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have said it before, the fundamental setup of this game is wrong.
Districts should belong to eve corps. They should generate stuff, assets, isk for eve players. This should be so desireable for eve players, that they have to hire Dusters to fight over said Districts.
Also they should provide the gear we are using. As far as I know, real life mercs have their kit provided by their employer.
The mercs could make an invoice of sorts for the stuff they need, beforehand. So if things go bad they loose money, and if not they make a profit. There would be a rating system for the mercs, that gives the employer an Idea if they are dependable assets on the field. So giving up any fight should have consequenses for your rating.
This would relieve the dusters from eve crap we don't need to have fun in the game.
Cheers Mad
Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing...
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
540
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Posted - 2014.11.14 16:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Op is a tard. As soon the district was filled up with clones the next time it would generate clones it just would automatically sell them. Which means that there was passive ISK generation and every 1 made a blue donut and farmed the living hell out of PC. Why fight if you could farm ISK without shoting a single bullet?
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4508
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Posted - 2014.11.14 17:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
No to passive isk ever again.
Endgame content needs to think bigger than currency.
Unique Gear/Items > lolpassive money printing districts.
And I say this holding the most to gain from passive isk returning.
It's a pathetically flawed system.
And we're working on fixing it.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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