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XxGhazbaranxX
Endless Hatred
1839
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Posted - 2014.11.12 00:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Skip to the IDEA section if you are too lazy to read.
Hello CCP,
I love the new apex suits and the direction they are headed in terms of their visuals. The gallente scout looks like a pimp suit and if i ever see it on the field i would be afraid of being pimp slapped for not doing my job correctly on the battlfield.
That being said, i do not like that they are proto nor that you cant change the fittings. I would have preffered them to be standard if it meant i could make my own custom fittings. I think CCP underestimates enjoyment people get from customizing their suit with the mods they want.
Another thing is the barrier to use. 30 dollars or 10 million and 100k lp makes so the new character will have to use their whole savings on a suit that they might not even like once they get it based on the forced fittings. So it feels like the suit is directed more towards the vets or people who already know what they want.
IDEA
Since the whole issue with it being a proto suit is tgat it can be abused while using proto gear and since the biggest setback is that its stuck with fittings that many people may not like then, i have a simple suggestion that is hopefully possible with the current code.
The idea is this. Lock the meta levels which can be equipped on the suit. For example lock the suit so that anything equipped above meta level 2 will result in an invalid fit. This will permit militia and standard gear to be fit but nothing above that. This will increase how desireable the suits are while maintaining the balance of owning one of these suits.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
[SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
774
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Posted - 2014.11.12 00:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Now that's an idea.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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Vance Vyth
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
94
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Posted - 2014.11.12 00:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes please thats a brilliant idea !!!!! :D
(a¦ê+ä-£a¦ê) n++Gö¦pâçGòÉGÇö _ - (a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ) "+60"
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Kuruld Sengar
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
34
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Posted - 2014.11.12 01:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes! Even if it's only militia gear allowed, that would work considering their massive fitting capacity. (would also allow bpo parts to be added) |
Skullmiser Vulcansu
170
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Posted - 2014.11.12 01:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is a fantastic idea. I commend you.
If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
11183
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Skip to the IDEA section if you are too lazy to read. Hello CCP, I love the new apex suits and the direction they are headed in terms of their visuals. The gallente scout looks like a pimp suit and if i ever see it on the field i would be afraid of being pimp slapped for not doing my job correctly on the battlfield. That being said, i do not like that they are proto nor that you cant change the fittings. I would have preffered them to be standard if it meant i could make my own custom fittings. I think CCP underestimates enjoyment people get from customizing their suit with the mods they want. Another thing is the barrier to use. 30 dollars or 10 million and 100k lp makes so the new character will have to use their whole savings on a suit that they might not even like once they get it based on the forced fittings. So it feels like the suit is directed more towards the vets or people who already know what they want. IDEA Since the whole issue with it being a proto suit is tgat it can be abused while using proto gear and since the biggest setback is that its stuck with fittings that many people may not like then, i have a simple suggestion that is hopefully possible with the current code. The idea is this. Lock the meta levels which can be equipped on the suit. For example lock the suit so that anything equipped above meta level 2 will result in an invalid fit. This will permit militia and standard gear to be fit but nothing above that. This will increase how desireable the suits are while maintaining the balance of owning one of these suits.
There is a possbility to reissue the skins, on MLT frames and call them FW starter fits, certainly not saying we are going to but it's possible.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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CCP Rattati
C C P
11183
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Skip to the IDEA section if you are too lazy to read. Hello CCP, I love the new apex suits and the direction they are headed in terms of their visuals. The gallente scout looks like a pimp suit and if i ever see it on the field i would be afraid of being pimp slapped for not doing my job correctly on the battlfield. That being said, i do not like that they are proto nor that you cant change the fittings. I would have preffered them to be standard if it meant i could make my own custom fittings. I think CCP underestimates enjoyment people get from customizing their suit with the mods they want. Another thing is the barrier to use. 30 dollars or 10 million and 100k lp makes so the new character will have to use their whole savings on a suit that they might not even like once they get it based on the forced fittings. So it feels like the suit is directed more towards the vets or people who already know what they want. IDEA Since the whole issue with it being a proto suit is tgat it can be abused while using proto gear and since the biggest setback is that its stuck with fittings that many people may not like then, i have a simple suggestion that is hopefully possible with the current code. The idea is this. Lock the meta levels which can be equipped on the suit. For example lock the suit so that anything equipped above meta level 2 will result in an invalid fit. This will permit militia and standard gear to be fit but nothing above that. This will increase how desireable the suits are while maintaining the balance of owning one of these suits. Good idea. There is also the possibility to reissue the skins, on MLT frames and call them FW starter fits, certainly not saying we are going to but it's possible.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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XxGhazbaranxX
Endless Hatred
1847
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Militia would not be worthwhile. Even if they look amazing, people wont like using something that wont get better with skills. Thats why std suits are so desireable because you can make them better with skills. That being said, these suits look amazing and have a solid foundation; if we could just have modules restricted by meta level, then many many people would be happy to dish out 30 dollars for the suit alone, even if it means they can only use basic things on it.
I think the coding could be simple server side:( if meta level > 2 invalid fitting, if not valid fitting.) .
If this isnt possible, i think the suit could have a multiplier that makes anything above meta level 2 ecceed fitting requirements.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
[SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4725
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Militia modules get better with skills. The dropsuit can be standard and the modules can be militia.
My advice to you, playa...
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sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
777
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:There is a possbility to reissue the skins, on MLT frames and call them FW starter fits, certainly not saying we are going to but it's possible.
Sorry to sound snarky, but how about re-issue the skins after re-thinking the colour schemes?
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
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XxGhazbaranxX
Endless Hatred
1847
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Posted - 2014.11.12 02:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:There is a possbility to reissue the skins, on MLT frames and call them FW starter fits, certainly not saying we are going to but it's possible.
Sorry to sound snarky, but how about re-issue the skins after re-thinking the colour schemes?
I guess to each his own but i personally like the every scheme except the amar which looks kind of faded on the golden areas... THAT GALLENTE SCOUT LOOK DAMN SEXY and the gallente commando looks pretty good to me
Plasma Cannon Advocate
[SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
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Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
1273
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Posted - 2014.11.12 03:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:There is a possbility to reissue the skins, on MLT frames and call them FW starter fits, certainly not saying we are going to but it's possible.
Sorry to sound snarky, but how about re-issue the skins after re-thinking the colour schemes? I guess to each his own but i personally like the every scheme except the amar which looks kind of faded on the golden areas... THAT GALLENTE SCOUT LOOK DAMN SEXY and the gallente commando looks pretty good to me The gallente commando reminds me of the Hulkbuster Iron Man suit
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
41
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Posted - 2014.11.12 05:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sorry, a PRO BPO suit that only can fit STD mods...
Why not buy a STD BPO and the MLT mods? The APEX suit is not practical, obtainable for new players or poor players, or worth using on a competitive level.
Its just something bored players go for because its shiny and new. |
NextDark Knight
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
578
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Posted - 2014.11.12 05:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Still waiting for the militia only game modes..
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
348
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Posted - 2014.11.12 07:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Spot on ghaz! Great idea.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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XxGhazbaranxX
Endless Hatred
1849
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Posted - 2014.11.12 07:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:Sorry, a PRO BPO suit that only can fit STD mods...
Why not buy a STD BPO and the MLT mods? The APEX suit is not practical, obtainable for new players or poor players, or worth using on a competitive level.
Its just something bored players go for because its shiny and new.
I do agree with part of your statement but, when i am using a suit to make isk with or troll, i dont care what modules it has as long as its cheap. That being said, having a protoype bpo which is able tp fit more milita items because of its expanded pwgrd and cpu and superior slot layout wich will give a marginal benefit in terms of versatility. That benefit, is not enough to turn the tides of battle and make the suits pay to win.
Like all in dust, i dont mind working extra hard to for a marginal boost even if it means grinding for a week to get a bpo for lp which is accesible to all.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
[SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
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Sequal Rise
Les Desanusseurs
198
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Posted - 2014.11.12 11:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Great idea.
Keep the actual pre-fitted suit, but make them modifiable with lvl 2 meta max stuff on it!
A bit like the starter fits for example^^
Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be.
Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
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Wilhelm Klingspor
DUST University Ivy League
292
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Posted - 2014.11.12 11:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like this, adds more worth to the suit. You buy it with the modules equipped as CCP designed them, then if you think you can think of a better combi of modules you can start switching. I think the price tag for the suit as is is ridiculous, i know the servers don't run on forum tears alone, but this is silly.
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
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XxGhazbaranxX
Endless Hatred
1850
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Posted - 2014.11.12 11:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Wilhelm Klingspor wrote: ... i know the servers don't run on forum tears alone...
Made my day, and yes they do. MOAR tears
Plasma Cannon Advocate
[SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
164
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Posted - 2014.11.12 21:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
I really like this idea !!
My only concern is that Meta Level, while pretty cool, has never been truly balanced. It's a meta stat that means nothing beyond the idea that an item is probably better than those with lower meta level.
This system would create a precedent where, for the first time, meta level actually affected something in game. It might spark the need to balance game wide meta levels for using meta levels again in other place of the game. It might turn into a lot more work than it seems at first glance.
Again, I love the idea, it would actually make me want one of these suits, I am just concerned for the work involved in the aftermath.
There is also the issue of attempting to keep them Factional Gear oriented (as much as possible, anyway). |
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
816
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Posted - 2014.11.12 21:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:This will permit militia and standard gear to be fit but nothing above that.
Excellent idea. That's something that I'd part with $29 for. An appropriate and venerable resolution.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
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XxGhazbaranxX
Endless Hatred
1858
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Posted - 2014.11.12 23:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:I really like this idea !!
My only concern is that Meta Level, while pretty cool, has never been truly balanced. It's a meta stat that means nothing beyond the idea that an item is probably better than those with lower meta level.
This system would create a precedent where, for the first time, meta level actually affected something in game. It might spark the need to balance game wide meta levels for using meta levels again in other place of the game. It might turn into a lot more work than it seems at first glance.
Again, I love the idea, it would actually make me want one of these suits, I am just concerned for the work involved in the aftermath.
There is also the issue of attempting to keep them Factional Gear oriented (as much as possible, anyway).
Meta level is easy to decifer. Std and militia gear have similars levels up to 2, advanced starts at 5 and proto i dont remember but there us a clear cut line where each tier begins.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
[SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
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Corbina Ninja
Expert Intervention
1064
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Posted - 2014.11.12 23:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
you could limit Apex suit PG and CPU resources to STD dropsuit with no limit on metalevel
its also hotfixable
«Questa è l'Italia del futuro: un paese di musichette mentre fuori c'è la morte.»
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XxGhazbaranxX
Endless Hatred
1858
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Corbina Ninja wrote:you could limit Apex suit PG and CPU resources to STD dropsuit with no limit on metalevel
its also hotfixable
This is also true
Plasma Cannon Advocate
[SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4853
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:Sorry, a PRO BPO suit that only can fit STD mods...
Why not buy a STD BPO and the MLT mods? The APEX suit is not practical, obtainable for new players or poor players, or worth using on a competitive level.
Its just something bored players go for because its shiny and new. So many new player skill up the suit first thinking that they need a proto suit to be good. Meanwhile they have no upgrade skills and are stuck equipping militia and standard gear, and then they wonder why they die so much.
The beauty of the APEX suits is that they give new players what they think they need, while encouraging them to put their skill points into Dropsuit Upgrades instead of into dropsuits.
When they realize the error in their original assumptions they may be out some LP or AUR, but their skill points will be in the right place.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
109
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I was about to say something that we could instead just choke the CPU/PG on the APEX line to keep it from being a free protosuit chassis, but my idea is slightly more in depth than "APEX whatever" fittings equal "STD whatever" fittings.
Rather, the APEX suits should be prefitted, and have sufficient CPU/PG so that you can fit them with mostly STD/MLT mods, and if you really juggle things around, you might squeeze on one or two ADV/Enhanced level items- like say, fitting an Assault Forge to one of the APEX sentinels, but then having to use a fitting mod or maybe juggle a few things around.
Ideally, they should be easy to fit out with a mix of STD and MLT modules; I'll use the Quafe Assault A-I and the APEX Opus Asasult for my example:
The Quafe Assault A-I has 1 high, 3 lows, and one each of light weapon, sidearm, grenade, and equipment. Referencing the Hotfix Charlie notes, it has 33 PG and 164 CPU. The APEX Opus Assault adds 2 highs and 2 lows; being able to mix MLT and STD mods requires that the APEX version must have more fitting space.
But it doesn't need much, perhaps somewhere between the ADV and STD level suits of the equivalent type. It's also the case that some suits should get a better increase- logis, for example, gain significant slot increases and often have increases in equipment slot numbers as well.
Using the MinLogi as my example (since it's the one that's been released), the Logi M-I has a 2/2/3 high/low/equip layout, with a light weapon and grenade slot. The APEX variant naturally has an additional equipment slot, and two more each of high and low slots.
The fitting space available to the Logi M-I will not be sufficient to properly fill all of the slots with a mix of MLT/STD mods. This is perhaps even more apparent with Gallente and Caldari Logis, since they gain significant slot count benefit going from STD to PRO level.
But I think that having a PRO-level slot layout with a PG/CPU budget a little bit above the STD-level equivalents would be an excellent way to prevent the much-feared "ohmahgerd bpo protostomper" epidemic... though I personally consider it an overblown issue, given that most "protostompers" are so ISK-wealthy that they can, in a practical sense, sustain full-on protosuits in perpetuity.
This also has the added advantage that it's very easy for CCP to hotfix this into the game. While I do agree that a meta-level limitation is quite brilliant and would also easily allow this, I would argue that simply adjusting the APEX line's CPU/PG values is a simpler, more elegant, and more likely to be implemented solution.
But meh, that's just my opinion.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4853
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Posted - 2014.11.13 00:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Someone made a good point about these being expensive BPOGÇÖs to buy when the player might not like them once they try them.
Can we have single use versions of these suits as well? Exactly the same, with the same restrictions and same lack of skill requirements, except single use and priced accordingly.
This would give people a chance to buy single use versions of the suit to see if they liked them. Then they could invest in the BPO if they liked playing the suit.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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