Lack of long range Anti-Shield AV. PLC does work up close.

Perhaps Laser Rifle variant that does increased vehicle and reduced infantry damage? Still a bandaid but can fill that anti shield AV role until a more proper asset is put into place.

Thoughts on LAV HP values?

As for Variants for HAVs, my thought is that the standard HAVs dont get any sort of bonus *much like dropships*

Specialized classes would essentially be Attack and Defense, or Enforcer and Marauder.

Enforcers would have less base HP but be considerably faster with bonuses for turrets.

Marauders would have more base HP but be considerably slower but with bonuses for racial defenses.

Now I think a slot change needs to happen for these variants, the question is what exactly.

Militia HAVs: No Bonuses - Totally fine with that

Standard HAVs (Frames): Racial Fitting Bonuses to encourage tanking type - Basically the same thing I suggested for Dropsuits in my "Teaching Without Tutorials" post. Totally fine with this as well. Would you apply these fitting bonuses to all HAVs or just the basic hulls?

Marauders: I get very wary of pushing eHP too high, so I typically shy away from hardener efficiency bonuses and try to focus more on recovery/regen or soft bonuses to hardeners. And as much as I LOVE active armor tanking, history has shown that excessive efficiency of armor repping can cause issues, so if we go with efficiency of regen mods it has to be done delicately. It's tough to say on this one because I REALLY want active modules on vehicles to behave like cloaks do with a soft duration and cooldown.

I think Hardener Duration for Caldari and Amarr is fair, though with a hard cooldown system, perhaps reduced cooldown would be better?

Efficiency of Armor Reps for Gallente is fine if approached carefully.

As for Minmatar....while I like our current Shield Boosters, they're really Ancillary Shield Boosters, and I'd like to make a differentiation between them and a more traditional shield booster. That being said I think Efficiency for those is also fine as long as its approached with caution.

So Caldari and Amarr can stay in a a fight longer. Gallente and Minmatar are more focused on quickly recovering for the next engagement.

Enforcers: Ok let me tackle your suggestions one at a time. I assume the listed racial bonuses apply to the specific module?

Heat Sinks: Clear choice, works well with 2 of the 3 turret types we currently have.
Gyrostabilizers: Unsure what you're going with on this one, how do you envision this translating to Dust?
Magnetic Field Stabilizer: Again I'm a little unsure of what you're aiming for on this one, or are these basically renames of existing turret-specific damage mods? THis would be Rails and Blasters yes?
BCU: I assume bonus to Missiles?

Ideally I'd like all of the bonuses to work with existing turrets, but also end up working with racial turrets if we ever get them.

Indeed. I'm mostly a shield tanker in EVE but most of the shield mechanics in Dust don't really apply to EVE so it's tough to even make a comparison.

I mean one defining factor that I've found is that Shield Tanks, while capable of more burst tanking through Boosters, are rarely cap stable without high end gear. So if we look at the whole capacitor style module system, we could say that shield regen modules have strong regen, but discharge much faster than they recharge. Armor regen modules are more moderate benefit, but are closer to a 1:1 charge/discharge ratio.

EDIT: I'd like to get this designed and rolled in with Racial Variations. Honestly I would prefer to get the Racial variants finished and rework modules for the first phase. Then pull in Pilot suits and Specialty Vehicles for the secondary phase.

Hmmmmmm very valid point. While I would love a true Cap system, I'm wondering if that's reasonable within the development cycle. The reason I went with the Pseudo cloak system was because that mechanic is already programmed into the game, so it would be easier to implement.

I wonder if you could give it a sort of stacking penalty, in that equipping an armor repper would decrease the recharge rate of armor reppers. So having more than 1 means more downtime for both?

TURRETS
Amarr Turret should be a sustained heavy laser, well suited to melting shields on tanks, LAV's and dropships. It needs to have a very slow turn speed to mitigate slaughtering infantry.

Minmatar Turret should be a pair of Autocannons in tandem, shooting large volumes of projectiles in a cone (Like the HMG) this cone is the opposite of the large blaster, and gets more accurate as you fire longer. It has the same profile as the CR and HMG, and is well suited to shredding armor tanks, LAV's and dropships. It has a decent turn speed, giving it a moderate ability to target infantry if allowed to spool up.

Amarr small turret should be similar to a buffed ScR, being a way to protect the tank from AV soldiers. It would function very similarly to a Rail Turret, although with a different damage profile.

Alternate Amarr small turret is a smaller version of the Main turret, made to sustain laser on targets to melt enemy targets.

Minmatar small turret is a mortar launcher. It has explosive damage profile and acts like a powerful mass driver with a small clip. It is designed to help the Minmatar tank in seige operations, as the turret is well suited to handling troops of footsoldiers. It has large impact damage as well, allowing it to help in AV operations against hardened targets.

Alternate Minmatar small turret is a mounted HMG, made to engage infantry and other Light Vehicles in combat at a decent range.

Please Velocet look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgYXup2k4B8

7:25 onwards. How that's alpha.

My issue is how do you differentiate between the alpha potential of current Large missiles vs an arty turret?

Fair enough, though for the purpose of this exercise we should probably focus on existing mechanics and assets.

So...going under the assumption that we wont be doing a drastic overhaul to turrets or how active modules work, let's move forward.

So Assume we add racial variants in, do you guys think we should have them share the same skills with the Caldari and Gallente since they have the same art assets? Or should they be completely different skills? My concerns with unique skills is that since we have limited turrets (and making turrent variants that actually work like the racial variants should is pretty hacky), I worry that the bonuses for the unique skills wouldn't be quite right, you know?

Another thing I wanted to bring up is the difference in fitting between a Basic Dropship and an Assault Dropship. In the case of the Assault, it loses 2 of its 6 slots, paired with a decrease in HP. This is in contrast to the idea that Enforcers, which are basically Assault HAVs, *gain* a slot compared to the Basic HAV. I actually agree with the ADS concept of a tradeoff, so I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that the Enforcer is almost a direct upgrade from the standard HAV. In general I want the Basic HAV to remain viable, and not just be on the upgrade path to Enforcer and Marauder. Thoughts?

Gonna have to disagree.

I understand that's how it works in EVE, but honestly I think we need to make a push for more sidegrades rather than upgrades. I move under the assumption that the work done here will be reflected in Legion as well, and I think a general push to make a unit's effectiveness be dictated by the modules and not the hull itself, is a good goal to move towards.

[Punisher, Punisher fit]

200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II

Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
E5 Prototype Energy Vampire

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Trimark Armor Pump I

[Retribution, Retribution fit]

200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
Thermic Plating II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II

Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
E5 Prototype Energy Vampire

Small Anti-EM Pump I
Small Anti-Thermic Pump I

Interesting analysis, thanks for doing the legwork on that one.

See this is where it's kinda weird. So in the EVE example, its +DEF +DPS -SPD (more or less) which is not in line with what we envisioned for Enforcers which is -DEF +DPS +SPD and then Marauders which would be +DEF -DPS -SPD. So It's difficult for me to really use that example as a basis of design since I think it's different on a fundamental level.

Also that pricing @_@. Even if it is powered up, losing a Specialty HAV and knowing its going to take 15-20 matches to make up the cost Extremely excessive in comparison. That ratio needs to be much smaller if you ask me.