DUST Search - I have finally realized what the Assault lacks

Nocturnal Soul wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

I-Shayz-I wrote:

Why do scouts need insane regen values?

Seriously though, by having 50/s on a scout you make it pointless to run shield rechargers so all the scout has to do is tank shields.

Then of course scouts have shorter shield delays too meaning that they don't feel the effect of stacking 4 complex extenders like us assaults do. 8 second delay with 4 extenders is now a 12 second delay...while a 3 second delay with 4 extenders only becomes a 5 second delay.

And scouts already have passive dampening, a large scan range, better precision, much faster movement speed, agility, jump height, strafing power.

Oh, and they can cloak.

People run scouts because they are better at being an assault than the assault is. If assaults didn't have to run regen mods you'd instantly see assaults brick tanking their suits just like scouts do now.

People run scouts because they have no situational awareness and need to rely on eWAR to kill people. Thats it.

Assaults are better suits by far. I don't see why people can't see that.

All they need is much better regen so that they can build like a scout.

People run scouts because they like the speed or stealth game play ewar has nothing to do with it and what you said is comparable to calling a heavy a scrub because he needs 900+ hp to kill a person


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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2807	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:17:00 - [1] - Quote After playing today alternating between a scout mk.0 slayer fit and assault mk.0 slayer fit, I finally realized what it is that really holds back the assault and allows the scout to be at the level of a slayer that it currently is. The key is regen. The scout has amazing regen, which should not change. However, the assault has a relatively poor regen, which is what truly holds it back from being amazing. In 1v1 encounters and even 2v1 encounters, my Assault absolutely excels, with nothing able to down me short of 3+v1 encounters in the opponents favor. However, where the scout really shines is moving between encounters and forcing encounters in its advantage. The assault doesn't need to be at as much of an advantage, positionally speaking, as the scout does when entering a new encounter, however, the scout has such a large advantage moving between encounters over the assault because Assault regen SUCKS. Its terrible. It makes me mad. With a scout, when I am damaged during an encounter, I can simply cloak up and move to a position where I can easily run away, and just stand still, as invisible as possible, and simply regen back to full, or at least very close. With the assault, when Im damaged, my only choice is to seek out cover, but not just any cover. This cover has to hold me for 20+ seconds without interruption or else my efforts will be in vain. Not to mention that when Im damaged I seem to become a bullet magnet until i die, no matter how much I manage to regen, unless I get very close to full health again. So: to buff the assault, all it needs is more regeneration. This will highly incentivize the suit without castrating a balanced role (scout), as the main reason that the scout is able to slay so well in the hands of a vet is the regeneration. Assaults are better slayer suits, except they lack regen compared to a scout. Proposed values for regen: //Race\\___Armor rep___Shield Delays___Shield Recharge Gal....................5......................6/8..........................20 Min..................2.5.....................2/4..........................30 Cal..................1.5.....................3/4..........................35 Am....................2......................6/8..........................20 "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2807	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:25:00 - [2] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Nope ewar eWAR aside from dampening is for the situationally unaware. All you need to do is look at a target and it shows you which way they're facing on the tacnet. Also, assaults need a lower scan profile, but I have to work out a proposal for that. But no, eWAR is not what they lack. AS is enough for me, all you need is to know where enemy density is highest, other than that you're fine without any scanning whatsoever. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2807	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:26:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Whenever I think about what Assault lacks I usually come back to a Chainsword and a Jump pack. What about a ump pack with a rocket launcher on the top? (think Jango Fett Star Wars ****) "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2810	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:33:00 - [4] - Quote I DUN GOOFED "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:44:00 - [5] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Gav I thought you were all gung ho about going assault and retiring your scout what changed? I am just busting you balls m8 yea regain/up time is a good part of it where the scouts have like 100% uptime with little need to remain in cover due to stealth. I don't think the issue can be isolated though. I still need level 5 for some skills before my assault is maxed. My scout is currently maxed, therefore is slightly better than the assault. And its not 100% uptime, but if assaults had nearly scout like regen, with their higher stats, it'd make them amazing. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:51:00 - [6] - Quote Im not in any way an Assault vet, but Id like some feedback from real Assault vets on these changes. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:03:00 - [7] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Im not in any way an Assault vet, but Id like some feedback from real Assault vets on these changes. If you want high regain on an assault use repair mods that's why they're there the real problem is a scouts ability to choose it's battles which is because it cannot be seen yet it can see everyone else, and everyone else doesn't have the base stats worth using ewar so you get people whining about cloaks being OP when ewar on every other suit is UP. Your statement is inherently wrong. While cloaked, we see NOTHING. While not cloaked, we are just as easy to see as an assault. eWAR does need a revamp, but it most certainly isn't useless outside of scouts. All my suits except heavies run at least one dampener. My logis all run precisions in the highs, and see BETTER than any Gal scout can. Thats pretty impressive. By using regen mods we should get more of an impact than we currently do. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:06:00 - [8] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Im not in any way an Assault vet, but Id like some feedback from real Assault vets on these changes. If you want high regain on an assault use repair mods that's why they're there the real problem is a scouts ability to choose it's battles which is because it cannot be seen yet it can see everyone else, and everyone else doesn't have the base stats worth using ewar so you get people whining about cloaks being OP when ewar on every other suit is UP. Your statement is inherently wrong. While cloaked, we see NOTHING. While not cloaked, we are just as easy to see as an assault. eWAR does need a revamp, but it most certainly isn't useless outside of scouts. All my suits except heavies run at least one dampener. My logis all run precisions in the highs, and see BETTER than any Gal scout can. Thats pretty impressive. By using regen mods we should get more of an impact than we currently do. I wasn't talking about the cloak. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:13:00 - [9] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Why do scouts need insane regen values? Seriously though, by having 50/s on a scout you make it pointless to run shield rechargers so all the scout has to do is tank shields. Then of course scouts have shorter shield delays too meaning that they don't feel the effect of stacking 4 complex extenders like us assaults do. 8 second delay with 4 extenders is now a 12 second delay...while a 3 second delay with 4 extenders only becomes a 5 second delay. And scouts already have passive dampening, a large scan range, better precision, much faster movement speed, agility, jump height, strafing power. Oh, and they can cloak. People run scouts because they are better at being an assault than the assault is. If assaults didn't have to run regen mods you'd instantly see assaults brick tanking their suits just like scouts do now. People run scouts because they have no situational awareness and need to rely on eWAR to kill people. Thats it. Assaults are better suits by far. I don't see why people can't see that. All they need is much better regen so that they can build like a scout. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2812	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:21:00 - [10] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Been proposed a dozen times over. I've ran Gal Assault since it was first released and I can tell you that no amount of regeneration is going to help me in battle against either a Heavy or a Scout. Both of them are entirely based on high burst/alpha damage which regeneration does nothing for. Don't get me wrong, regeneration would be great, but in the current meta it's not going to be some big game changer for Assaults. Assaults are the only class in the game that does not have a unique aspect to their gameplay that separates them from the pack. Sentinels = Heavy weapons Commandos = Dual Lights (even this isn't enough to make them stick out) Logistics = Lots of equipment Scouts = Cloak Assaults = ....... Versatility? Scouts are easy. You just need to aim at them. If they get the jump on them, then they SHOULD kill you. Pay attention, and it'll never happen. Against good scouts like TT or others, you will probably be overwhelmed, but even then, at range, you can pop them quite easily. Heavies, on the other hand....I carry remotes just for them. They need an HP nerf or something TBH. But, the best way to deal with them is to flit in and out from cover, and once they're down to a certain amount of health get them from behind and start strafing like a monkey. I need to get better at judging my strafe speed and CR TTK, but once I do I should be very capable of downing any heavy in the game aside from a proto Amarr heavy full bricked. But then, the only thing that can kill that 1v1 in CQC is another fully bricked Amarr Sentinel with a burst. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2820	Posted - 2014.11.10 12:06:00 - [11] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Regen should be even better than scouts. You have all the advantages but HP (-250), and they're all massive. Speed, EWAR, regen, stamina, 2 equipments, smaller hitbox, etc'. If Assaults are to be useful, we need to absolutely dominate scouts in at least HP and regen. No it shouldn't be. You should still be incentivized to put on at least one or two regen mods. You have an extra two slots and more than twice the HP. Applying one extra module that isn't tank shouldn't be a problem. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2830	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:35:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Regen should be even better than scouts. You have all the advantages but HP (-250), and they're all massive. Speed, EWAR, regen, stamina, 2 equipments, smaller hitbox, etc'. If Assaults are to be useful, we need to absolutely dominate scouts in at least HP and regen. No it shouldn't be. You should still be incentivized to put on at least one or two regen mods. You have an extra two slots and more than twice the HP. Applying one extra module that isn't tank shouldn't be a problem. With shields, recharge is percentage based. Having it be stronger than scouts would actually be an incentive. You said it yourself, we have high base HP, and combined with 5 high slots Caldari fitting rechargers/energizers would be amazeballz. As for armor, it's really problematic simply due to how armor repairers work. Ive always advocated for a high slot module that gives a % increase to armor reps... "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2830	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:36:00 - [13] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Why do scouts need insane regen values? Seriously though, by having 50/s on a scout you make it pointless to run shield rechargers so all the scout has to do is tank shields. Then of course scouts have shorter shield delays too meaning that they don't feel the effect of stacking 4 complex extenders like us assaults do. 8 second delay with 4 extenders is now a 12 second delay...while a 3 second delay with 4 extenders only becomes a 5 second delay. And scouts already have passive dampening, a large scan range, better precision, much faster movement speed, agility, jump height, strafing power. Oh, and they can cloak. People run scouts because they are better at being an assault than the assault is. If assaults didn't have to run regen mods you'd instantly see assaults brick tanking their suits just like scouts do now. People run scouts because they have no situational awareness and need to rely on eWAR to kill people. Thats it. Assaults are better suits by far. I don't see why people can't see that. All they need is much better regen so that they can build like a scout. People run scouts because they like the speed or stealth game play ewar has nothing to do with it and what you said is comparable to calling a heavy a scrub because he needs 900+ hp to kill a person I think you misinterpreted my post... Oh well. It was awkwardly worded "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2830	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:41:00 - [14] - Quote calvin b wrote: I know you favor Min over Cal for your numbers are wrong. The Cal needs 2/3 for shield do to low armor rep and its a shield based suit. The Min is a hybrid like Armarr both armor and shields. The Gal is solely armor based. Also Gal Armor rep is to high, maybe a 3. Why should Caldari get a monopoly on everything shield related? That makes no sense. That'd be like giving the Amarr better armor regen than the gallente. The Caldari should have the highest recharge rate because they have the highest shield ceiling potential, and minmitar the best delays because they have the most speed and lowest HP. Caldari should not be the only shield tanker, just as Amarr shouldn't be the only armor tanker. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2830	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:44:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: What the assault lacks is a way to counter heavy and scout spam. Once those two things are fixed then the assault suit is going to see a sharp uptick in utility. "Scout spam" is really really easy to deal with. You shoot them and they die. Easy. You pay attention to your surroundings and they don't sneak up on you. You can miss twice more shots than they can, while you also have only about 7% slower strafing. Heavy spam on the other hand....remotes work, but they take too long to arm to really be effective. Your best bet is to generally avoid heavies, and pick them off at range, where dispersion of the HMG puts you at an advantage. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2830	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:46:00 - [16] - Quote DDx77 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Regen should be even better than scouts. You have all the advantages but HP (-250), and they're all massive. Speed, EWAR, regen, stamina, 2 equipments, smaller hitbox, etc'. If Assaults are to be useful, we need to absolutely dominate scouts in at least HP and regen. 100% agree It seems to me to get the same regen on a assault that you get on a scout you have to take up slots for rechargers/Regulators. This means the slot layouts of the assault are essentially the same as a scout - and the scout still has better speed and ewar. Swapping the regen rates of each scout with their assault counterpart might be an easy solution Assault regen is ****** on minmitar and amarr. The only suits that should have that bad recharge are heavies. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.