DUST Search - Officer Swarms

JARREL THOMAS wrote:

Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:

JARREL THOMAS wrote:

Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:

VikingKong iBUN wrote:

Get a buddy to help you, or find a blueberry with AV and shoot at the same time as him. Then you'll destroy the dropship in 1 volley and be like "lol that was incredibly easy."

a viper has 2500 shields. proto swarms on a proto minmando with 2 complex DMs will do about 1100. but thanks to your logic you help my case. if i, solo, can take down a madrugar/incubus but 3 AVers struggle to take down a gunloggi/python how is it balanced?

as i keep trying to stress, the tools themselves arn't the issue its the damage between the 2 defense types and a lack of other options thats causing unbalance.

That's because you avers did that you turned maddies into crap much more different in 1.7 I believe all tanks should require atleast 2 people to destroy a tank and if 3 people can't destroy a gunlogi then he's really good or....well you know

because it couldn't in no way be down to forge and swarms doing +35% to armour (with prof 5)?

a dumb gunloggi can be taken down with reasonable ease, by dumb i mean one who thinks he's invincible cos he has a hardener running and he's in a loggi and stays to fight. th emain issue is that a clever loggi can get away for too easily and out of range of both forge and swarms because of the reduced damage and charge/flight times of the AV.
armour vehicles though then generally if i've shot my 3 rounds from my proto swarms in my AV suit they're usually dead

We don't go that fast ground vehicles HAVs have no chance of escape if we're running around corners that's the only way we can escape on a strait path we would lose that rase and I forgot the forge gun but has an increased charged time

Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience

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Nirwanda Vaughns 924	Posted - 2014.11.09 16:32:00 - [31] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: Get a buddy to help you, or find a blueberry with AV and shoot at the same time as him. Then you'll destroy the dropship in 1 volley and be like "lol that was incredibly easy." a viper has 2500 shields. proto swarms on a proto minmando with 2 complex DMs will do about 1100. but thanks to your logic you help my case. if i, solo, can take down a madrugar/incubus but 3 AVers struggle to take down a gunloggi/python how is it balanced? as i keep trying to stress, the tools themselves arn't the issue its the damage between the 2 defense types and a lack of other options thats causing unbalance. That's because you avers did that you turned maddies into crap much more different in 1.7 I believe all tanks should require atleast 2 people to destroy a tank and if 3 people can't destroy a gunlogi then he's really good or....well you know because it couldn't in no way be down to forge and swarms doing +35% to armour (with prof 5)? a dumb gunloggi can be taken down with reasonable ease, by dumb i mean one who thinks he's invincible cos he has a hardener running and he's in a loggi and stays to fight. th emain issue is that a clever loggi can get away for too easily and out of range of both forge and swarms because of the reduced damage and charge/flight times of the AV. armour vehicles though then generally if i've shot my 3 rounds from my proto swarms in my AV suit they're usually dead Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14985	Posted - 2014.11.09 16:35:00 - [32] - Quote Dont forget that on top of admor taking more damage, shields take less And Rat has the audacity to suggest that the two ships are even, what a tool. Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+ Bitter Vet extraordinaire
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 181	Posted - 2014.11.09 16:38:00 - [33] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: Get a buddy to help you, or find a blueberry with AV and shoot at the same time as him. Then you'll destroy the dropship in 1 volley and be like "lol that was incredibly easy." a viper has 2500 shields. proto swarms on a proto minmando with 2 complex DMs will do about 1100. but thanks to your logic you help my case. if i, solo, can take down a madrugar/incubus but 3 AVers struggle to take down a gunloggi/python how is it balanced? as i keep trying to stress, the tools themselves arn't the issue its the damage between the 2 defense types and a lack of other options thats causing unbalance. What do you think that's like for the pilot? He's got a guy shooting at him constantly with swarms that do almost half his hp in 1 volley, you think he has time to stop and shoot at you? As soon as he hears that swarm launcher go off he is instantly preparing to move away, he can no longer think about fighting back because he has to run or die. And the guy with the swarm launcher gets points for it, while the pilot gets nothing and has to run away. Then when he's repped and goes back into battle he has the same guy on him again, and the same thing repeats. It's no fun at all, and that's just with 1 decent AV guy on the enemy team - who's wearing a suit that costs less than 1/4 what your dropship does.
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game RUST415 374	Posted - 2014.11.09 16:38:00 - [34] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: Get a buddy to help you, or find a blueberry with AV and shoot at the same time as him. Then you'll destroy the dropship in 1 volley and be like "lol that was incredibly easy." a viper has 2500 shields. proto swarms on a proto minmando with 2 complex DMs will do about 1100. but thanks to your logic you help my case. if i, solo, can take down a madrugar/incubus but 3 AVers struggle to take down a gunloggi/python how is it balanced? as i keep trying to stress, the tools themselves arn't the issue its the damage between the 2 defense types and a lack of other options thats causing unbalance. That's because you avers did that you turned maddies into crap much more different in 1.7 I believe all tanks should require atleast 2 people to destroy a tank and if 3 people can't destroy a gunlogi then he's really good or....well you know because it couldn't in no way be down to forge and swarms doing +35% to armour (with prof 5)? a dumb gunloggi can be taken down with reasonable ease, by dumb i mean one who thinks he's invincible cos he has a hardener running and he's in a loggi and stays to fight. th emain issue is that a clever loggi can get away for too easily and out of range of both forge and swarms because of the reduced damage and charge/flight times of the AV. armour vehicles though then generally if i've shot my 3 rounds from my proto swarms in my AV suit they're usually dead We don't go that fast ground vehicles HAVs have no chance of escape if we're running around corners that's the only way we can escape on a strait path we would lose that rase and I forgot the forge gun but has an increased charged time Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
Nirwanda Vaughns 924	Posted - 2014.11.09 17:01:00 - [35] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: Get a buddy to help you, or find a blueberry with AV and shoot at the same time as him. Then you'll destroy the dropship in 1 volley and be like "lol that was incredibly easy." a viper has 2500 shields. proto swarms on a proto minmando with 2 complex DMs will do about 1100. but thanks to your logic you help my case. if i, solo, can take down a madrugar/incubus but 3 AVers struggle to take down a gunloggi/python how is it balanced? as i keep trying to stress, the tools themselves arn't the issue its the damage between the 2 defense types and a lack of other options thats causing unbalance. That's because you avers did that you turned maddies into crap much more different in 1.7 I believe all tanks should require atleast 2 people to destroy a tank and if 3 people can't destroy a gunlogi then he's really good or....well you know because it couldn't in no way be down to forge and swarms doing +35% to armour (with prof 5)? a dumb gunloggi can be taken down with reasonable ease, by dumb i mean one who thinks he's invincible cos he has a hardener running and he's in a loggi and stays to fight. th emain issue is that a clever loggi can get away for too easily and out of range of both forge and swarms because of the reduced damage and charge/flight times of the AV. armour vehicles though then generally if i've shot my 3 rounds from my proto swarms in my AV suit they're usually dead We don't go that fast ground vehicles HAVs have no chance of escape if we're running around corners that's the only way we can escape on a strait path we would lose that rase and I forgot the forge gun but has an increased charged time loggis are quick enough trust me. swarms only have a lock range of 175m and forge range was dropped to about 200-250m i think. when you take into account that most AV takes place at around 90m range from AV to target its not too tough to get away from and you only have to dip down a small hill for swarms to plough into floor or a forge round to whiz over your head. at most with charge times and a loggi moving off you can get off about 1-2 round before its out of range. also the FG guy may miss as you speed off seeign as its not a guided shot. buy again thats a clever loggi driver and again the issue i'm making is that a poor armour vehicle pilot wouldn't even get the chance to think of driving off. the idea isn't to buff swarms or nerf shields but alter damage in order to bring balance to each vehicle defense type. because if AV and vehicle defense types are balanced then lets, for a laugh, swap proficiencies and damage profiles of swarms and forge over from armour to shields and vice-versa with PLC. seeing as they're so balanced it shouldn't make any difference should it? because if as you claim, they're so balanced then there shouldn't be any issue with swarms doing +35% damage to a python or gunloggis shields should there? Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 933	Posted - 2014.11.09 17:19:00 - [36] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: because if AV and vehicle defense types are balanced then lets, for a laugh, swap proficiencies and damage profiles of swarms and forge over from armour to shields and vice-versa with PLC. seeing as they're so balanced it shouldn't make any difference should it? because if as you claim, they're so balanced then there shouldn't be any issue with swarms doing +35% damage to a python or gunloggis shields should there? No, it wouldn't make a difference, it would make the meta switch around. As before, what we need is the full gamut of AV weaponry. Your point about making the profiles neutral is stupid because it means shields/armour are no different, making armour far superior (passive, persistent reps and higher HP pools versus low HP and interruptable regeneration.) Edit: your complaints are about shields having an advantage, the solution is not to drop the profiles or switch them around; neither of those solves the issues we have. Only adding anti-shield AV makes the meta balanced. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Nirwanda Vaughns 925	Posted - 2014.11.09 17:29:00 - [37] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: because if AV and vehicle defense types are balanced then lets, for a laugh, swap proficiencies and damage profiles of swarms and forge over from armour to shields and vice-versa with PLC. seeing as they're so balanced it shouldn't make any difference should it? because if as you claim, they're so balanced then there shouldn't be any issue with swarms doing +35% damage to a python or gunloggis shields should there? No, it wouldn't make a difference, it would make the meta switch around. As before, what we need is the full gamut of AV weaponry. Your point about making the profiles neutral is stupid because it means shields/armour are no different, making armour far superior (passive, persistent reps and higher HP pools versus low HP and interruptable regeneration.) exactly so they're not balanced, everyone would move from shields to armour because its unbalanced, there has to be a reason to choose one defense over the other but currently there isn't. armour is supposed to be long engagements taking in a lot of damage and shields are fast vehicles, quick in-out attack style but it doesn't work like that and armour vehicles die very very quickly. infantry we have various suits and weapons. if you come up against caldari you don't use CR or RR because of the weakness to shields, you'd use a laser or AR, thing is with AV there isn't really that option and for heavies its the FG or none. if we had a gallente forge then it'd be balanced but we don't so bringing the damage to neutral but arranging vehicle hitpoints to compensate then it allows a more equal balance between shields and armour instead of there being too much favour for one over the other armour maddys used to be a pain, simple solutions? make armour repairers active modules again but increase the cycle to allow for the sustained engagement, but it has to run when time starts ticking out on its reppers. not rocket science Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 165	Posted - 2014.11.09 17:31:00 - [38] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: [quote=Cody Sietz] As for the quote you posted: they are using hardeners and adhering to the waves of opportunity that CCP ascribed to vehicle modules: the AV wave of opportunity is to attack during the downtime of those modules. You mean the part of the game where the vehicle is a million miles away waiting for stuff to cooldown? The whole "waves of opportunity" thing doesnt apply to AV players, because their opportunity is just them dodging infantry while the vehicle is sitting around waiting for cooldowns. Once again let me explain how its incredibly dishonest to pretend AV vs. V is balanced when one party (Ill be explicit here and say that party is vehicles, since some vehicle drivers are too dim to understand that they have a massive speed advantage) gets to choose the terms of engagement in virtually every instance and the other party (AV) doesnt have enough firepower to realistically kill a vehicle pilot who is paying attention. The vehicles have waves of opportunity, the AV just sits there dodging infantry until they get back. So once again, AV sucks ass against infantry and vehicles, so why would anyone ever pick it other than to give their poor teamates half a chance to not get stomped by invincible killing machines? Buff AV so they can kill things, reduce vehicle costs so they can be used even when they are being killed, and you might have something that looks like balance.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 935	Posted - 2014.11.09 18:59:00 - [39] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: You mean the part of the game where the vehicle is a million miles away waiting for stuff to cooldown? their opportunity is just them dodging infantry while the vehicle is sitting around waiting for cooldowns. The vehicles have waves of opportunity, the AV just sits there dodging infantry until they get back. Considering that even with hardeners there is still significant damage to be dealt, causing the vehicles to either be cautious or outright retreat, depending on how effective you are. Also, it's not impossible to chase ground vehicles when they retreat: LAVs are more than capable of catching an HAV and unless there is a lot of terrain, you'll likely be able to deal plenty of damage. AV is not a purely defensive mechanism. Vesta Opalus wrote: So once again, AV sucks ass against infantry and vehicles, so why would anyone ever pick it other than to give their poor teamates half a chance to not get stomped by invincible killing machines? Buff AV so they can kill things, reduce vehicle costs so they can be used even when they are being killed, and you might have something that looks like balance. Well, considering that AV is plenty powerful against any vehicle that is even vaguely trying to help their team (and not just running away as soon as any AV appears) I don't see how you're useless,especially when a single damage reward is worth more than an infantry kill and is arguably easier (depending on the situation.) I wouldn't mind an AV buff/vehicle cost reduction, but I honesty don't think it's needed. I say this as a pilot but also as someone who uses swarms/FGs regularly. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1258	Posted - 2014.11.09 19:08:00 - [40] - Quote No they shouldn't 2.5 mil SP sink has to beat 25 mil SP sink apparently Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4472	Posted - 2014.11.09 19:30:00 - [41] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Are what Wiyrkomis should be! whoever came up with the stats for it i thank thee. just a shame its an officer drop. Because Swarms need to be even more effective yes they do.. have you tried to take down a proto fit 25m+SP ADS with a competent pilot in a python which gets up to 80% resist to swarms? its a nightmare.. you barely scratch em and they can zip off as fast as all hell if they feel the threat is great enough If they're running hardeners on their shield vehicle and you're shooting them with an explosive AV weapon then you should be doing next to nothing! The issue is not swarms, it's the lack of anti-shield AV. Stop being scrubbly idiots who want herp-derp point and click swarms to be the be-all end-all AV weapon. Lobby harder for anti-shield weaponry. Except that the only shield AV are the Plasma Cannon and Flux Grenades...
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 935	Posted - 2014.11.09 19:37:00 - [42] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Except that the only shield AV are the Plasma Cannon and Flux Grenades... Indeed. Which is why we need racial parity ASAP. Neutralising the damage profiles of current AV weapons is not the answer. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.


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