DUST Search - In response to CCP Rattati's comments on Team Deploy

Sgt Kirk wrote:

Piercing Serenity wrote:

Kallas Hallytyr wrote:

Thing is, FacWar should be about coordination and be brutal: you want to go into FacWar with a 12-merc team? Be prepared to come up against a full Patrol of enemies fully coordinated and have to rely on your remaining blues.

I think that FW should be practical for a merc of any skill level or dedication to be a part of. While some mercs would love to go hard core in FW, I can imagine solo role players who want to do something "more meaningful" than public matches. These players shouldn't be stomped out of FW due to patrols.

Instead, I would suggest that players pick the planet that they would like to patrol. If it is a planet that is involved in FW, then that match would effectively change into a "Factional Warfare Patrol" where they would have FF activated and earn LP for their efforts.If they planet chosen is not involved in FW, then the match would effectively be a "Public Patrol" where FF would not be active and players would be rewarded with ISK.

I think that catering to more, not less, play styles is the most important thing to keep in mind. Some players might want FW to be brutal, others might not. If we can allow both to co-exist, then you can enjoy DUST in your way without imposing your desires on to someone who disagrees with you

I don't think the idea of Patrols makes it to where the FW that we have now won't exist.

Just that FW with more Hardcore people will be able to 16 v 16, or what have you, without having to worry about ~~scrubs~~ friendlies being a liability.

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Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 638	Posted - 2014.11.07 22:58:00 - [1] - Quote In this interview between Draxus Prime and CCP Rattati/CCP Rouge, CCP Rattati mentions the limitations for team deploy in DUST: CCP Rattati wrote: -snip- For balance reasons, they would only fight other Patrols so matchmaking would be problematic. Especially if we then also have 15, 14 and 13 player Patrols, each unable to fight one another. Until then, Planetary Conquest offers 16 v 16 team matches. -snip- My response is: is it possible to change the requirement for Patrols from "16 v 16" to "4 squads v 4 squads"?. Team deploy would be an understandable problem if matchmaking will only deploy two 16 person teams. But the 16 person squad had 4 squad leaders that all queued for the same patrol, could Team Deploy still work? In its most extreme case, we would have a game of 16 v 4. But I doubt that anyone looking to team deploy would go in with just four people. However, I think that some mercs might be okay with a 15 v 16 or 13 v 16 if it meant a better and more organized fight. I can flesh this idea out more, but I wanted to know if it held any water in the first place DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5212	Posted - 2014.11.07 23:02:00 - [2] - Quote Why not just pull in some solo players queuing? EDIT: assuming this would take place in FW I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 638	Posted - 2014.11.07 23:03:00 - [3] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Why not just pull in some solo players queuing? Possibly, but then you might get random blueberries without mics in your otherwise coordinated squad. And that blueberry could very well be out of his league in a match between two organized groups EDIT: I think that this could take place in both "Pubs" and FW. DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
XxGhazbaranxX Endless Hatred 1828	Posted - 2014.11.07 23:10:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah, they had somethong called corp battles which were awesome. Also, if you made a match mode called team match, make so that you can only use tgat option if you have a 16 man team Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 638	Posted - 2014.11.07 23:14:00 - [5] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Yeah, they had somethong called corp battles which were awesome. Also, if you made a match mode called team match, make so that you can only use tgat option if you have a 16 man team I know about corp battles, and don't know why we cannot have those. The bold part of your quote is exactly why Rattati doesn't want to introduce team deploy. Either you have two groups of people who don't have the right numbers, or you risk long wait times for another full squad to join. I think that having a 4-squad minimum allows for the most flexibility in match making. We could have anywhere from 4-16 players cue up and have a game DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10776	Posted - 2014.11.08 00:04:00 - [6] - Quote I haven't heard or thought of this solution before.It has a lot of merit.Thanks! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8266	Posted - 2014.11.08 00:06:00 - [7] - Quote I can get down with this. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 907	Posted - 2014.11.08 00:38:00 - [8] - Quote Thing is, FacWar should be about coordination and be brutal: you want to go into FacWar with a 12-merc team? Be prepared to come up against a full Patrol of enemies fully coordinated and have to rely on your remaining blues. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 639	Posted - 2014.11.08 00:41:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I haven't heard or thought of this solution before.It has a lot of merit.Thanks! Thank you for your lighting fast reply. Much appreciated DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 639	Posted - 2014.11.08 00:46:00 - [10] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Thing is, FacWar should be about coordination and be brutal: you want to go into FacWar with a 12-merc team? Be prepared to come up against a full Patrol of enemies fully coordinated and have to rely on your remaining blues. I think that FW should be practical for a merc of any skill level or dedication to be a part of. While some mercs would love to go hard core in FW, I can imagine solo role players who want to do something "more meaningful" than public matches. These players shouldn't be stomped out of FW due to patrols. Instead, I would suggest that players pick the planet that they would like to patrol. If it is a planet that is involved in FW, then that match would effectively change into a "Factional Warfare Patrol" where they would have FF activated and earn LP for their efforts.If they planet chosen is not involved in FW, then the match would effectively be a "Public Patrol" where FF would not be active and players would be rewarded with ISK. I think that catering to more, not less, play styles is the most important thing to keep in mind. Some players might want FW to be brutal, others might not. If we can allow both to co-exist, then you can enjoy DUST in your way without imposing your desires on to someone who disagrees with you DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8270	Posted - 2014.11.08 01:01:00 - [11] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Thing is, FacWar should be about coordination and be brutal: you want to go into FacWar with a 12-merc team? Be prepared to come up against a full Patrol of enemies fully coordinated and have to rely on your remaining blues. I think that FW should be practical for a merc of any skill level or dedication to be a part of. While some mercs would love to go hard core in FW, I can imagine solo role players who want to do something "more meaningful" than public matches. These players shouldn't be stomped out of FW due to patrols. Instead, I would suggest that players pick the planet that they would like to patrol. If it is a planet that is involved in FW, then that match would effectively change into a "Factional Warfare Patrol" where they would have FF activated and earn LP for their efforts.If they planet chosen is not involved in FW, then the match would effectively be a "Public Patrol" where FF would not be active and players would be rewarded with ISK. I think that catering to more, not less, play styles is the most important thing to keep in mind. Some players might want FW to be brutal, others might not. If we can allow both to co-exist, then you can enjoy DUST in your way without imposing your desires on to someone who disagrees with you I don't think the idea of Patrols makes it to where the FW that we have now won't exist. Just that FW with more Hardcore people will be able to 16 v 16, or what have you, without having to worry about ~~scrubs~~ friendlies being a liability. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 640	Posted - 2014.11.08 01:05:00 - [12] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Piercing Serenity wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Thing is, FacWar should be about coordination and be brutal: you want to go into FacWar with a 12-merc team? Be prepared to come up against a full Patrol of enemies fully coordinated and have to rely on your remaining blues. I think that FW should be practical for a merc of any skill level or dedication to be a part of. While some mercs would love to go hard core in FW, I can imagine solo role players who want to do something "more meaningful" than public matches. These players shouldn't be stomped out of FW due to patrols. Instead, I would suggest that players pick the planet that they would like to patrol. If it is a planet that is involved in FW, then that match would effectively change into a "Factional Warfare Patrol" where they would have FF activated and earn LP for their efforts.If they planet chosen is not involved in FW, then the match would effectively be a "Public Patrol" where FF would not be active and players would be rewarded with ISK. I think that catering to more, not less, play styles is the most important thing to keep in mind. Some players might want FW to be brutal, others might not. If we can allow both to co-exist, then you can enjoy DUST in your way without imposing your desires on to someone who disagrees with you I don't think the idea of Patrols makes it to where the FW that we have now won't exist. Just that FW with more Hardcore people will be able to 16 v 16, or what have you, without having to worry about ~~scrubs~~ friendlies being a liability. Do you think that the bold paragraph introduces any problems? While I agree that FW won't radically change overnight, I feel that there is an opportunity to only add to the number of game modes, instead of changing an existing one. DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 148	Posted - 2014.11.08 02:38:00 - [13] - Quote Corp battles. If it makes it easier you could have something similar to the squadfinder to play against another team and could have a descriptor like "plc only" or whatever. This would be good if you didnt have a whole team as well. 6v6 grudge match on a smaller socket. or.. just add a "hardcore " mode that can be team deployed so the pc players have a high level mode besides pc. Full proto and super grimy tactics would be expected here. Maybe pump up isk payouts in this mode or something
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 330	Posted - 2014.11.08 03:01:00 - [14] - Quote I like the idea OP, but wouldn't that split the player base by location making finding a battle difficult? If another completely unrelated SL ques up at the same time as your 4 Alliance SLs, wouldn't the teams get mixed or one squad not get int? Again it's a good idea but it looks like a logistics and population nightmare.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 362	Posted - 2014.11.08 03:22:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I haven't heard or thought of this solution before.It has a lot of merit.Thanks! In the game MAG we had a Q Screen that showed us full teams ready to deploy when there was a full team on the opposing side ,If we had a ready to deploy the players could look at the q-screen an say two full teams ready for FW Ammar and then they could deploy two oppose them. Teams Q Ammar / Mimitar 16 or one light gold * could represent a full team 16 player Rust color * full team (They deploy) 15 player teams 15 player team 14 player team 14 player team (they deploy) The notification screen would show all active teams so the players would not wait endlessly not knowing if they would deploy.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 568	Posted - 2014.11.08 03:26:00 - [16] - Quote I would like to see a smaller team,, and have a escalation option.. So say we team deploy with 14 players.. against 16 players.. Depending on how the battle goes 2 additional players can escalate in on either side. So it could go 14 vs 18 if things are going to well for the deployed squad. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 703	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:35:00 - [17] - Quote Is it possible we could see which planets are populated by opposing players? If a 14 team Q-sync were to spot 16 players on an opposing planet, I feel they should be able to launch against them. Being able to find out if the team is organized however takes the thrill out of the match however, because you could get 16 trollers... UNLESS These teams are dictated in levels of collective MU. Example: 16 players have a collective MU of 40 Million...The District they are on is colored extremely red (Veterans). With that, teams and players can flex their musclesand try to engage that team... This solves Eve Pilots needing help on planets closest to them (Saves time for both parties) Dusties that may like basic Corp practice can practice against Organized Qsyncs without needing to obtain Districts Could even add a new Corp Stat- FW Conquest Districts taken Could also be used for a Future Dom 2.0 as EvE Laser Cannons are installed on Planets in FW. This could bump up FW as Pilots like not losing millions of isk at a time.... Thanks for the interview intel fyi Devs :) 07, A friendly, Information-Starved Merc Ace Boone's Son John's Desciple Danizzle's Friend/ A Data-Starved Merc / Bring on the Star Wars Battlefront 3 Dice.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 673	Posted - 2014.11.08 06:49:00 - [18] - Quote I'd favor a strict team versus team requirement if team deploy was an option in pubs, but if the meta associated with FW is supposed to have a shred of meaning at all, then a team deploy option in FW should not have a match making requirement forcing a cohesive team to only face off against another cohesive team. CPM1 Blog: Team Deploy and FW Regardless of where it happens (referring to game mode) or how, I want a persistent and instant team deploy mode in Dust more than anything. I love Planetary Conquest, but it's primary weaknesses are that it forces players to be slaves to timers and it's expensive. Also, it's extremely exclusive. Even an extremely inclusive corp like my own has to be very selective about who we allow to compete in PC matches. As far as I am concerned we need a team deploy option that allows a corp and/or alliance to easily, instantly, and reliably queue 16-players into battle after battle without the costs and exclusivity associated with competing in PC. We had that sort of outlet for team play in MAG and it would be wonderful to have it in Dust as well.
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 180	Posted - 2014.11.08 06:57:00 - [19] - Quote I really don't think this should be limited to FW battles, for those of us unaligned with any of the empire as I am and very distrusful of politicians in general, as a rule I only fight in FW battles to support my friends and corp mates and although I do see a point to getting the Faction gear but at this point have no reason so, my current suit limit restricts me from making faction fit suits. I can't sell the stuff from faction LP for isk on the market to those who would pay isk for it so really there is no reason for me to fight for any of the empires. I swore long ago to be unaffiliated with any of the empires, free to travel all of them and fight for those with isk, give me isk for FW or put it into circulation for the standard modes. How long til this hits PC?
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 650	Posted - 2014.11.08 17:46:00 - [20] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: I really don't think this should be limited to FW battles, for those of us unaligned with any of the empire as I am and very distrusful of politicians in general, as a rule I only fight in FW battles to support my friends and corp mates and although I do see a point to getting the Faction gear but at this point have no reason so, my current suit limit restricts me from making faction fit suits. I can't sell the stuff from faction LP for isk on the market to those who would pay isk for it so really there is no reason for me to fight for any of the empires. I swore long ago to be unaffiliated with any of the empires, free to travel all of them and fight for those with isk, give me isk for FW or put it into circulation for the standard modes. DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal

yruphct Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2014.11.08 18:36:00 - [21] - Quote Everything about team deploy would enhance the game i think. Whatever could be done should be tried. MAG was the last real team deploy that kept me engulfed. PC is close, but to few and far between. Back to back games in C-Dep was the parties i never wanted to miss. Please give it to us again.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 658	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:26:00 - [22] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I like the idea OP, but wouldn't that split the player base by location making finding a battle difficult? If another completely unrelated SL ques up at the same time as your 4 Alliance SLs, wouldn't the teams get mixed or one squad not get int? Again it's a good idea but it looks like a logistics and population nightmare. It sounds like the problem you're raising is: 4 FA squad leaders sign up for a patrol at the same time that another Blueberry squad leader signs up for a patrol. My first comment would be that there would need to be Four random blueberry squad leaders looking for the same battle for this to be a potential issue, because the current suggest operates on the basis that a team is only eligible if it has four squad leaders in it. My second comment is that we could retool Scotty for these kinds of situations: Provision: Set squad leader chat to "Team Chat", set squad member chat to "Squad chat" by default. Allow both teams to wait in MCC for 60 seconds before deployment. Check 1: If at all possible, pair squad leaders of the same corp on the same side of the battle Check 2: If Check 1 fails, pair squad leaders of the same alliance on the same side of the battle Check 3: If Check 1 and Check 2 fail, balance the match based on Mu scores. The provision would be to allow mercs to coordinate with each other and decide how leadership will work for the team, as they will. The first check would be to ensure that corps who wanted to do team matches would be able to do so regardless of whoever else tried to join. If another squad leader in your corp tried to join, I would label that under AWOXing and say that it is fine. The second check would be to allow ringers within an alliance to be matched with other members of their alliance to help out in a patrol The final check would be to allow a team of 8 different squad leaders to have a balanced match. This was the best I could come up with given the hour, but I'll keep thinking on it DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 641	Posted - 2014.11.10 12:44:00 - [23] - Quote one small problem with the OP's suggestion. what happens if tthere are 4 squads with only one person each? how do we prevent that?
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4480	Posted - 2014.11.10 14:25:00 - [24] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: one small problem with the OP's suggestion. what happens if tthere are 4 squads with only one person each? how do we prevent that? Why would that be a problem? I say let them do it... I mean, unless those 4 are Regynum, Alldin Kan, Marauder, and Mr. Zitro or something, they will very quickly learn the error of their ways. HTFU and all that. (The godfather of tactical logistics)


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