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Will new RR kick be ok?

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zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 635	Posted - 2014.11.07 16:38:00 - [1] - Quote Previously (and currently) it's 0.5. It's going up to .1, so it's doubling. It'll be twice what's it's always been and half of what it was recently. I'm looking to respec into Cal Assault/RR, among other things. Do you think twice the usual kick will be serviceable enough to merit using the rifle for its range? The only alternative is the LR, but it's probably no better hipfiring. Is ScR/Amarr Assault the way to go now for max range, or do you think the RR will still excel in its role?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2059	Posted - 2014.11.07 16:47:00 - [2] - Quote IMO, the RR already had issues in CQC and was already the worst of the rifles in this regard. With a doubling of the hipfire kick, along with an increase in charge time (which can be mitigated, to a certain extent, by pre-charging the gun)I suspect it will be more than doubly worse in this regard. That said, the RR will continue its long range dominance. The ScR is a workable alternative, if you can become comfortable with the single shot and heat buildup dynamics. The LR suffers from an even more extreme CQC weakness, so I don't see it as a viable alternative. Personally, I'm likely going to go away from the RR in favor of the CR. It's a better weapon up close, has little difference in range, and I find a hole on the far end of the range far easier to fill than a hole up close -- particularly with the prevalence of short-range scouts and active scans.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 564	Posted - 2014.11.07 16:56:00 - [3] - Quote The problem was the RR was popular. So it was nerfed to allow the other rifle equal play time. With the new Frames per Second the RR even without the nerf was having problem keeping up in CQC. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 359	Posted - 2014.11.07 16:59:00 - [4] - Quote As a Cal Assault and RR user, I can tell you the kick hasn't made too much a difference to me as I always pull out my SMG in CQC. You can still use the RR in CQC you just can't spray and pray with it, I still do fine with it when hipfiring but you have to use short bursts which gives little room for error because of the spool up time.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 636	Posted - 2014.11.07 18:03:00 - [5] - Quote Mike Ox Bigger wrote: As a Cal Assault and RR user, I can tell you the kick hasn't made too much a difference to me as I always pull out my SMG in CQC. You can still use the RR in CQC you just can't spray and pray with it, I still do fine with it when hipfiring but you have to use short bursts which gives little room for error because of the spool up time. When you know you're about to have to CQC brawl, do you first hipfire your RR at them as they approach and then switch to your SMG when it starts kicking too much? Or do you start with your SMG and only go to RR when you exhaust your clip? In the latter case would a Scrambler or Ion Pistol work better as a starter than SMG?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2061	Posted - 2014.11.07 18:09:00 - [6] - Quote Depends on who I'm going up against. Shield based, I pull the ScP. Armor based I stick to the RR. But really, in CQC, I expect to die if the other player isn't a noob...because that's what generally happens.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 636	Posted - 2014.11.07 18:14:00 - [7] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Depends on who I'm going up against. Shield based, I pull the ScP. Armor based I stick to the RR. If I'm unsure, I start with the higher DPS of the RR, then switch to the sidearm once its kick becomes too much and if I don't have time to recharge it. But really, in CQC, I expect to die if the other player isn't a noob...because that's what generally happens. Ok.... So are you able to avoid CQC enough to merit using the RR?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2062	Posted - 2014.11.07 18:48:00 - [8] - Quote Depends on the map and the competition, but my use of the ARR/RR has gone down such that the only time I bring it out is if I have to get rid of someone camping at the edge of its range or guard an approach (for instance the outside points on the bridge map). At last check I had 3 fits that had it, and the remaining 27 were mostly BrAR and HMG fits. Then again, my playstyle is not distance fighting or roof camping. It's taking and holding points (and winning rather than padding KDR) While the RR can be useful in both attacking and defense, I simply find other weapons much better suited to the job and much more enjoyable to use....and outside of roof camping, there is no place to hide from the ever present scouts. Pubs are much easier in this regard, but in short, no.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4407	Posted - 2014.11.07 19:48:00 - [9] - Quote The Magsec has an alright kick now, by the way. Use that in CQC along with the Rail Rifle. It does wonders.
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2205	Posted - 2014.11.07 20:01:00 - [10] - Quote The RR kicks like a mule sometimes, but the Magsec is worse. I tried to stay on target but the thing goes nuts if you hold the trigger to long. The RR is good at long range but up close forget it, I use bolt pistol and RR for I use Cal assault. Can the other voices in other peoples minds hear my voices in my head????

D4GG3R 494	Posted - 2014.11.07 20:08:00 - [11] - Quote Amarr assault best assault I'm pretty plain. I watch anime for the boobs
D4GG3R 494	Posted - 2014.11.07 20:09:00 - [12] - Quote Minmatar assault is close second I'm pretty plain. I watch anime for the boobs
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 565	Posted - 2014.11.07 20:22:00 - [13] - Quote I put it back on my commando and my ck.0 assault. I think its balanced so newer plays have something easy to attack. Ie rail rifle users as they are the most potent in the game. Now that focus is shifting from RR to AR my caldari shield suits are getting eaten alive. I now have to duel tank on the battle field or run mini. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2404	Posted - 2014.11.07 20:30:00 - [14] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Previously (and currently) it's 0.5. It's going up to .1, so it's doubling. It'll be twice what's it's always been and half of what it was recently. I'm looking to respec into Cal Assault/RR, among other things. Do you think twice the usual kick will be serviceable enough to merit using the rifle for its range? The only alternative is the LR, but it's probably no better hipfiring. Is ScR/Amarr Assault the way to go now for max range, or do you think the RR will still excel in its role? The kick is going from .2 to .1, which I believe is what it was before. However, the charge time is going to be .6 seconds. Horse's Post. "Kick ease: 0.2 0.1 buff" with a charge nerf. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 637	Posted - 2014.11.07 22:27:00 - [15] - Quote D4GG3R wrote: Amarr assault best assault Don't you have trouble with all the heavies and armor tankers? Do you find there are more shield tankers lately? As a heavy I've faced up against Cal Sent recently and it's a beast with those shields against HMG. I run AR usually but want a long range option. Do you think ScR can compete with RR at long range? How is it in CQC?
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 637	Posted - 2014.11.07 22:28:00 - [16] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Previously (and currently) it's 0.5. It's going up to .1, so it's doubling. It'll be twice what's it's always been and half of what it was recently. I'm looking to respec into Cal Assault/RR, among other things. Do you think twice the usual kick will be serviceable enough to merit using the rifle for its range? The only alternative is the LR, but it's probably no better hipfiring. Is ScR/Amarr Assault the way to go now for max range, or do you think the RR will still excel in its role? The kick is going from .2 to .1, which I believe is what it was before. However, the charge time is going to be .6 seconds. Horse's Post. "Kick ease: 0.2 0.1 buff" with a charge nerf. The kick before was .05. Charge was .03 So both will be double their current value.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7481	Posted - 2014.11.08 03:30:00 - [17] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: D4GG3R wrote: Amarr assault best assault Don't you have trouble with all the heavies and armor tankers? Do you find there are more shield tankers lately? As a heavy I've faced up against Cal Sent recently and it's a beast with those shields against HMG. I run AR usually but want a long range option. Do you think ScR can compete with RR at long range? How is it in CQC? The reason why it's the best is because 3x Damage Mods makes you laugh at your armor damage penalty. For those who don't know: Viziam ScR Prof V with no damage mods 98.67 damage per shot to shields 57.2 damage per shot to armor Viziam ScR Prov V with 3x Damage mods 116 damage per shot to shields 77.65 damage per shot to armor Yeah. 3x damage mods makes you deal more than the 71.5 base damage when against armor. It shreds everything. And has a huge armor tank. However, Combat Rifle flanks will rip one to shreds before he can react. In straight 1v1's though, this IS the best Assault suit in the game. Hands down. Other Stats worth noting: 96m effective range Headshot Multiplier Can charge shots for insta-kills (Especially with headshots) Decent Hipfire ability Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 182	Posted - 2014.11.08 04:10:00 - [18] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Previously (and currently) it's 0.5. It's going up to .1, so it's doubling. It'll be twice what's it's always been and half of what it was recently. I'm looking to respec into Cal Assault/RR, among other things. Do you think twice the usual kick will be serviceable enough to merit using the rifle for its range? The only alternative is the LR, but it's probably no better hipfiring. Is ScR/Amarr Assault the way to go now for max range, or do you think the RR will still excel in its role? These people have never played FPS with normal balanced gun disadvantages such as recoil. It's less than enough to actually balance the gun.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 218	Posted - 2014.11.08 04:15:00 - [19] - Quote I did not understand what changes you were describing, but the progression of the kick on the RR is so low in its current state that it makes little difference the TTK of the weapon is low enough even at militia level to not have to worry about kick unless you miss a lot. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 226	Posted - 2014.11.08 04:15:00 - [20] - Quote I did not understand what changes you were describing, but the progression of the kick on the RR is so low in its current state that it makes little difference the TTK of the weapon is low enough even at militia level to not have to worry about kick unless you miss a lot. If what you were saying is that they are doubling kick progression and reducing kick it sounds like a great change. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk

Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 99	Posted - 2014.11.08 06:04:00 - [21] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Other Stats worth noting: Headshot Multiplier Can charge shots for insta-kills (Especially with headshots) Just snipped down the relevant part, but Scrambler rifles do not have any extra super-special headshot bonus. It will, admittedly, look higher than other weapons; however, this is due to the +20% shield damage bonus. Like almost all light weapons, the ScR actually has a 1.5x headshot multiplier. In practice, this will turn into a 180% efficiency for headshots against shields, and 120% efficiency for headshots against armor. However, you are correct that charge shots to the head are incredibly deadly. Against lightly shield tanked suits, the charge shot could potentially blap them, without aiming for the head... but I'd say it's just not something to count on. As a general rule of using the charge shot on the scrambler rifle, you should try to either cover-duel or volley fire; in the former case you're repeatedly using the charge shot by ducking out of cover just long enough to fire, and then ducking back into cover to regen and charge up again. For the latter, you charge, then fire the charge shot and fire several additional follow-up shots. It's a good way to get a substantial alpha strike downrange, and is potentially so lethal against shield suits that they might not be able to react. Now, on-topic: I find I have pretty much stopped using the regular RR. It feels like the hipfire recoil builds up to uncontrollable levels very quickly, especially when considering the screen shake effect- TBH, I feel like it's the screenshake that really does it in in terms of hipfire effectiveness. The ARR isn't as bad; it takes dumping about half the magazine for the recoil to become overly difficult to control; I find that stopping and then respooling and resuming fire at about that point is very helpful, and also helps conserve ammo. That last part is now very important- the ARR is an ammo hog, nearly as bad- or perhaps even worse- than the ACR is. Of course, all that being said, I have actually found that I much prefer the ARR to the ACR on my AmLogi... it took some fiddling and sacrifices, as well as getting Dropsuit Engineering to L4, in order to actually fit it without risking my equipment payload being ineffective- and I'm now starting to experiment with using a scout suit as a "link layer" and then switching to my logi fit to bonus the links into awesomeness. What makes this somewhat surprising is that the ACR/CR's very low grid requirements make them a suspiciously perfect choice for the grid-starved AmLogi.... About the only thing I dislike about the ARR is the sights- I wish we could get the bolt pistol's reflex-style sight onto the ARR, though naturally it would be limited to the current ARR's zoom level. For the regular RR though... I haven't really touched it any more. I feel like it wouldn't sync well with my AmLogi fits, where I prefer the greater area-denial function of the LR and MD, and that it wouldn't be a good fit with my Amarr Commando fits, where the ARR has actually replaced the ACR as my preferred secondary light weapon. Maybe it would work as an armor-damage long range weapon for the Amarr Assault... but I haven't really invested into the AmSalt that much; I'm preferring the logi and commando more ATM. I find the ARR syncs better with the scrambler rifle, since they have moderately comparable range, and the ARR offers some fine armor damage- as well as supplemental CQB firepower- to complement the scrambler. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
Michael Arck 5998	Posted - 2014.11.08 08:43:00 - [22] - Quote Me thinks I'm skilling up an Amarr Assault and going for the SCR. The truth is, the RR has been hacked into a prosthetic leg that is only good at throwing it at somebody for a momentary stun. The RR is now a mere shadow of what is was imagined to be in the very beginning. Very disappointing. But in the efforts of survival, I will just go AA with SCR. See how they like that. Like Ghost said, it shreds everything and no one really talks about that so much. So I can expect to have a decent killing weapon that I don't have to worry about getting nerfed by GD. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7487	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:53:00 - [23] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Other Stats worth noting: Headshot Multiplier Can charge shots for insta-kills (Especially with headshots) Just snipped down the relevant part, but Scrambler rifles do not have any extra super-special headshot bonus. It will, admittedly, look higher than other weapons; however, this is due to the +20% shield damage bonus. Like almost all light weapons, the ScR actually has a 1.5x headshot multiplier. In practice, this will turn into a 180% efficiency for headshots against shields, and 120% efficiency for headshots against armor. However, you are correct that charge shots to the head are incredibly deadly. Against lightly shield tanked suits, the charge shot could potentially blap them, without aiming for the head... but I'd say it's just not something to count on. Woah woah woah, you mean it doesn't have the same headshot bonus as the Scrambler pistol? Or did they change both in a recent fix? Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7487	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:54:00 - [24] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Me thinks I'm skilling up an Amarr Assault and going for the SCR. The truth is, the RR has been hacked into a prosthetic leg that is only good at throwing it at somebody for a momentary stun. The RR is now a mere shadow of what is was imagined to be in the very beginning. Very disappointing. But in the efforts of survival, I will just go AA with SCR. See how they like that. Like Ghost said, it shreds everything and no one really talks about that so much. So I can expect to have a decent killing weapon that I don't have to worry about getting nerfed by GD. Please don't. I hate that thing. It makes my Minmatar scout cry. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 372	Posted - 2014.11.08 16:08:00 - [25] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Mike Ox Bigger wrote: As a Cal Assault and RR user, I can tell you the kick hasn't made too much a difference to me as I always pull out my SMG in CQC. You can still use the RR in CQC you just can't spray and pray with it, I still do fine with it when hipfiring but you have to use short bursts which gives little room for error because of the spool up time. When you know you're about to have to CQC brawl, do you first hipfire your RR at them as they approach and then switch to your SMG when it starts kicking too much? Or do you start with your SMG and only go to RR when you exhaust your clip? In the latter case would a Scrambler or Ion Pistol work better as a starter than SMG? I try to ding them with the RR first, you can get a good 5-10 shots before it starts getting out of control. I'm not a fan of A KRR, I don't know why but I can't get used to long range with it. I have trouble hitting people slighting behind cover so I'm really hoping they don't gimp my gun anymore than they already have.
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 372	Posted - 2014.11.08 16:15:00 - [26] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Depends on who I'm going up against. Shield based, I pull the ScP. Armor based I stick to the RR. If I'm unsure, I start with the higher DPS of the RR, then switch to the sidearm once its kick becomes too much and if I don't have time to recharge it. But really, in CQC, I expect to die if the other player isn't a noob...because that's what generally happens. Ok.... So are you able to avoid CQC enough to merit using the RR? The RR is still the dominant rifle in Ambush, hands down. It's still great for wide open engagements where it's range trumps other weapons but in CQC you're better off with any of the other rifles. Stick to nades and your sidearm up close and you'll be fine.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 644	Posted - 2014.11.08 17:14:00 - [27] - Quote Mike Ox Bigger wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Depends on who I'm going up against. Shield based, I pull the ScP. Armor based I stick to the RR. If I'm unsure, I start with the higher DPS of the RR, then switch to the sidearm once its kick becomes too much and if I don't have time to recharge it. But really, in CQC, I expect to die if the other player isn't a noob...because that's what generally happens. Ok.... So are you able to avoid CQC enough to merit using the RR? The RR is still the dominant rifle in Ambush, hands down. It's still great for wide open engagements where it's range trumps other weapons but in CQC you're better off with any of the other rifles. Stick to nades and your sidearm up close and you'll be fine. Thanks man. Skilled into. Calmando so I'm all in.
Boot Booter Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1035	Posted - 2014.11.08 17:15:00 - [28] - Quote No.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 645	Posted - 2014.11.08 17:49:00 - [29] - Quote Mike Ox Bigger wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Mike Ox Bigger wrote: As a Cal Assault and RR user, I can tell you the kick hasn't made too much a difference to me as I always pull out my SMG in CQC. You can still use the RR in CQC you just can't spray and pray with it, I still do fine with it when hipfiring but you have to use short bursts which gives little room for error because of the spool up time. When you know you're about to have to CQC brawl, do you first hipfire your RR at them as they approach and then switch to your SMG when it starts kicking too much? Or do you start with your SMG and only go to RR when you exhaust your clip? In the latter case would a Scrambler or Ion Pistol work better as a starter than SMG? I try to ding them with the RR first, you can get a good 5-10 shots before it starts getting out of control. I'm not a fan of A KRR, I don't know why but I can't get used to long range with it. I have trouble hitting people slighting behind cover so I'm really hoping they don't gimp my gun anymore than they already have. 5-10 good shots with old 0.05 kick or new 0.2? We haven't seen 0.1 yet of course.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 183	Posted - 2014.11.08 18:13:00 - [30] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Other Stats worth noting: Headshot Multiplier Can charge shots for insta-kills (Especially with headshots) Just snipped down the relevant part, but Scrambler rifles do not have any extra super-special headshot bonus. It will, admittedly, look higher than other weapons; however, this is due to the +20% shield damage bonus. Like almost all light weapons, the ScR actually has a 1.5x headshot multiplier. In practice, this will turn into a 180% efficiency for headshots against shields, and 120% efficiency for headshots against armor. However, you are correct that charge shots to the head are incredibly deadly. Against lightly shield tanked suits, the charge shot could potentially blap them, without aiming for the head... but I'd say it's just not something to count on. Woah woah woah, you mean it doesn't have the same headshot bonus as the Scrambler pistol? Or did they change both in a recent fix? It never had the same headshot bonus as the ScP. Never. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.

Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 100	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:03:00 - [31] - Quote Yeah, the Scrambler rifle never had an extra special headshot bonus. It might have seemed like it, but that's probably more due to the fact that the charge shot/semi-auto mechanics always made it desirable to maximize damage by going for the head. Charge shot alpha, particularly on a headshot, likely fueled the common myth of scramrifle HS multiplier superiority. Mike Ox Bigger wrote: The RR is still the dominant rifle in Ambush, hands down. It's still great for wide open engagements where it's range trumps other weapons but in CQC you're better off with any of the other rifles. Stick to nades and your sidearm up close and you'll be fine. While I despise spambush, the RR is still going to be the best general-purpose long-range rifle. The only other weapon with a similar engagement profile is the LR, and quite frankly the RR is just easier to use than a LR. If you are absolutely in love with the RR though, and you want a close quarters rifle option, then at least give the ARR a try- I've found that the only thing I really miss about the CR/ACR I used to fit on my Amarr Logi is that the latter two just have so little PG requirement. Other than that... the ARR, for me, has become a practical replacement of both the CR and ACR. I'll fully admit that that is a fully preferential thing, especially since I just really like the RR/ARR aesthetic design and effects. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts


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