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In response to you Zatara. (I disagree!)

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Haerr Clone Manque 1784	Posted - 2014.11.05 12:39:00 - [1] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I think the time has come to rework e-war as a whole to bring mediums back into the e-war game through module use. I disagree! A rework of the EWAR system is long overdue. Several ideas have been mulled over and contributed to. Here is a short (hehe) summary. *EWAR* On modules and a core issue One problem of the current EWAR system is that modules are either good enough or completely ineffective and a waste of slots. This is in stark contrast to how other modules in Dust works and a rework of the system ought to allow for modules to be useful even when their combined effect isn't perfect. One idea is to implement a falloff to scan precision on both passive and active scanners. This would allow for a tug of war between precision enhancers and profile dampeners, in which the result determines how close you can be to someone before you show up on their scans. On the binary nature of scans Currently you either do not show up on the tac-net OR you up on the mini-map as a directional arrow and as a chevron on the HUD (regardless of LOS). There are several problems here that are not entirely straight forward to solve. First of which is that there are only two states of being scanned down, second is that the max scanned down state is giving away too much information. One way of reducing the impact of being scanned down is to increase the number of scanned down states. If for example we have hidden, sector on the mini-map, blip on the mini-map, and chevron on the hud while in line of sight, we then have four states of which the max scanned down state gives away less information. Removing the directional arrow on the mini-map and the chevron on HUD while out of line of sight will make it more difficult to time CQC alphas, it will also make it more difficult to time pre firing your weapon to when an enemy is coming around a corner because it will be more difficult to determine exactly when he will be coming around said corner. On shared scans In the current system shared (squad) passive scans are too powerful related to how easy they are to use, while shared (team) active scans are too difficult to avoid in comparison to the benefit that they provide. In the idea of precision falloff and more states shared scans are not necessarily a bad thing provided that they are optional extras that are at a disadvantage compared to personal scans. Shared passive scans could require the use of a pg/cpu intensive module and the sharing active scanners could be less powerful than non-sharing active scanners. On Scan Profile modifiers In the current system it wouldn't make much difference to attach temporary scan profile penalties (increases) to actions such as firing a HMG. It would how ever make a fair bit of difference with the precision falloff idea. Actions such as firing non-suppressed weapons and/or having activate equipment could temporarily (while active) make it easier to pickup your position. It would also allow for separately balancing suppressed weapons or variants and non-suppressed weapons. On Combining Scan Profile modifiers with different scanning layers Combining the ideas of the recently added infantry passive vehicle scanning layer and Scan Profile modifiers there could be a layer for vehicles to detect AV-infantry when they are charging up or locking-on. This would allow for vehicle pilots to have an early warning system against AV while not giving away the position of AV infantry to other types of infantry. However there is no reason to why a weapon, say a forge gun, couldn't have Scan Profile modifiers in several layers. It would also give heavies a reason to fit profile dampener, reducing the range of which vehicles can pick up forge guns while they are charging. On Active Scanners, Medium suits, and Profile Dampeners Currently there is very little reason to fit Profile Dampeners on Medium suits, with the Precision falloff idea there is more reason to do so but still not enough. That can be somewhat remedied by introducing a new bonus to Profile Dampeners: Scanned Down Duration -xx%, it will work in both the current iteration (to a degree) of EWAR and more so in the Precision falloff idea. It will also allow for profile dampeners to have a use even when their primary function fails, reducing the feeling that the modules are useless as soon as there are high level scanners being used. While comparing the difference in Scan Precision vs. the Scan Profile to modify the time scanned down would be a more elegant solution, putting a clearly worded bonus directly on the module is likely a better solution as it makes the benefits of the module more straightforward.
Catgirl White Mage Nekomimi Paradise 7	Posted - 2014.11.05 14:36:00 - [2] - Quote +1 Shades of grey allows more nuance than two extremes.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3404	Posted - 2014.11.05 15:34:00 - [3] - Quote Scan Falloff is a beautifully eloquent way of fixing the overly binary nature of scans. +1 Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4437	Posted - 2014.11.05 17:26:00 - [4] - Quote !00% agree. Binary scan mechanics are lame and the directional arrow is just crazy. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 52	Posted - 2014.11.05 17:51:00 - [5] - Quote I'm certain I've seen most of these ideas at one time or another, and I've supported all of them. I'm for all of the ideas here, and I primarily run a turbo-scout which benefits a lot from the generous information provided by current scans. I should not be able to know what direction you're facing, without being able to see you, at the very least. The fact that I can wait for the moment when I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that my target is looking in the opposite direction despite my lack of a direct sight line is ridiculous and makes it way too easy. On top of that my suit is undampened because I want all the speed I can get, so If a Medium suit decides to fit some precision enhancement they should be able to at least have some indication that I am there. The little Min with the little voice.
Sinboto Simmons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 6455	Posted - 2014.11.05 18:17:00 - [6] - Quote Been a long time coming, I agree Ewar is in need of a reboot on all levels, unfortunately this is a major workload on the DEVs part, and I'm not certain they've the manpower for it. shrugs Perhaps the community can help with numbers, in any case give ideas for legion regardless. Good ideas here, good luck, and try to mention some ideas for LAV Ewar for me too. laughs Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Llast 326 An Arkhos 5234	Posted - 2014.11.05 20:12:00 - [7] - Quote I would very much like to see this come into play Hoping for some Dev discussion on viability MOAR Ladders
Cass Caul 1441	Posted - 2014.11.05 20:20:00 - [8] - Quote None of it really matters without significantly changing the numbers. Without any change to mechanics, Medium Frames could participate in EWAR if either (A) Active Scanners were nerfed to 37 for proto, 47 for ADV, and 53 for STD. . . or (B) Remove/alter Gallente Logistics bonus to precision on active scanners I think we need to prioritize what needs to be changed first. Here's my ranking 1: Shared passive scans 2: directional indicators 3: alter gal-logi skill from precision to scan angle 4: create fall-off. 1x range = precision, 1x range to 2x range = 75% precision, 2x range to 3x range = 50% precision When I see the other ideas, my pessimistic side screams, "do you even know what that'd do to the game?!" because DUST's programmers haven't shown the skills to optimize it with high levels of proficiency. All is see is those additional calculations slowing down the game even more. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2753	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:34:00 - [9] - Quote Ill link my eWAR proposition...take whatever you want from it Haerr "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Deputy ReGnUM Bragian Order Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2014.11.06 03:47:00 - [10] - Quote bump


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10581	Posted - 2014.11.06 04:14:00 - [11] - Quote I am working on a collection of community and own ideas about EWAR. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Terry Webber Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 480	Posted - 2014.11.06 05:45:00 - [12] - Quote I like your proposal, Haerr. I use an active scanner sometimes so this would make scanning a little bit more of a fun challenge.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 629	Posted - 2014.11.06 05:55:00 - [13] - Quote Logis should be able to module up for detection but not assaults.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5547	Posted - 2014.11.06 05:55:00 - [14] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Ill link my eWAR proposition...take whatever you want from it Haerr I remember his proposal actually being legit. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
The Master Race Immortal Guides 209	Posted - 2014.11.06 06:01:00 - [15] - Quote The 3 levels is kinda nice, but I think all it needs is a rng roll. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 209	Posted - 2014.11.06 06:01:00 - [16] - Quote The 3 levels is kinda nice, but I think all it needs is a rng roll. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7016	Posted - 2014.11.06 06:30:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am working on a collection of community and own ideas about EWAR. Is there a consolidated location on where we can go to post our thoughts? Legion Transparency Me and My Girl

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10598	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:15:00 - [18] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180032&find=unread "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 531	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:44:00 - [19] - Quote +1. The last few games since patch deployment have been tremendously fun until someone picked up the active scanner. As a commando, flanking is one of tricks but I have to do it without the benefit of a damp due to slot restrictions. It's been tough. These proposals sound great. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1485	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:31:00 - [20] - Quote Haerr wrote: . . FRIGIN' BRILLIANT OP POST . . +1000. Haerr is spot on the problems, and lists many things the ewar system really should be worked towards. Consider current system a placeholder for the Real Ewar and hiding/detection game. PS: Haerr for CPM2. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change



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