DUST Search - So I realise something about AV

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

It is not so much the buffs the Swarms but rather the nerfs that have hit the Madrugar the hardest.

The Hardener nerf made the Shorter Cooldown, Lasts Longer, less effective of the Armor Tank overall worse than the Shield Hardener. For the Complex Hardeners, Shield is 24/60 for 40% while Armor is 36/50 for 25%. Even worse is that the Advanced Armor hardener is 36/70 which is what Madrugar usually have to use given the fact that the Complex is 28% of their CPU and they still need a Turret and to fill out their Lows.

The Repair nerf was there to hit the people that ran Triple Repair and were basically immune to Swarms and Militia Forge Guns, you needed high burst to kill them. However, rather than just give it a big stacking penalty, it was slashed pretty massively which was an unfair nerf to those that ran Plate, Hardener, Repairer or just not multiple Repairers.

I still think that the Tanks are fairly close though. A surprise hit to a Gunnlogi before the Hardener is on drops a a lot of its total EHP while a Madrugar's Armor is likely not even damaged from the first hit before Hardeners are on. If the Tanks do have any kind of disparity it is because of the Gunnlogi's better ratio of CPU to PG. Simply put, it is easier to fit 845/2120 than it is to fit 475/2490.

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Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 149	Posted - 2014.10.31 17:51:00 - [1] - Quote The swarm launchers had been buffed so ridiculously that armour tanking HAV's were pushed to almost virtual uselessness if anyone has anything advanced and up, even the basics are ridiculous. I got a Myron dropship, and the same thing applies. Can't Anything be done competently??? Jeez. I am Gamer Satan's lover, but don't tell anyone that. You can help my cause to purify scrubs by praying to Gamer Satan.
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 149	Posted - 2014.10.31 18:33:00 - [2] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: It is not so much the buffs the Swarms but rather the nerfs that have hit the Madrugar the hardest. The Hardener nerf made the Shorter Cooldown, Lasts Longer, less effective of the Armor Tank overall worse than the Shield Hardener. For the Complex Hardeners, Shield is 24/60 for 40% while Armor is 36/50 for 25%. Even worse is that the Advanced Armor hardener is 36/70 which is what Madrugar usually have to use given the fact that the Complex is 28% of their CPU and they still need a Turret and to fill out their Lows. The Repair nerf was there to hit the people that ran Triple Repair and were basically immune to Swarms and Militia Forge Guns, you needed high burst to kill them. However, rather than just give it a big stacking penalty, it was slashed pretty massively which was an unfair nerf to those that ran Plate, Hardener, Repairer or just not multiple Repairers. I still think that the Tanks are fairly close though. A surprise hit to a Gunnlogi before the Hardener is on drops a a lot of its total EHP while a Madrugar's Armor is likely not even damaged from the first hit before Hardeners are on. If the Tanks do have any kind of disparity it is because of the Gunnlogi's better ratio of CPU to PG. Simply put, it is easier to fit 845/2120 than it is to fit 475/2490. I can feel the pain of the many madrugar drivers as they cry and polish their madrugar fits with their tears while putting the tanks into storage. Still though swarm volleys can be almost continuous if someone gets a certain distance away, which allows someone to empty so many missiles on a tanker if they stop just for a moment or so. I've seen it happen and done it myself, and destroyed mlt tanks with little effort that way. Armour tanks also have more counters, just the annoying thing to find out was how some counters can be just as effective to shield tanking vehicles like the myron and basic shield tanking HAV's, and how I really did not know how messed up it got for vehicle users. Now it's just more hard for non proto players to benefit enough from infantry gameplay too, so imagine people speccing into vehicles right now to get a different feel of the game. I am Gamer Satan's lover, but don't tell anyone that. You can help my cause to purify scrubs by praying to Gamer Satan.
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 149	Posted - 2014.10.31 18:40:00 - [3] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Lloyd Orfay wrote: The swarm launchers had been buffed so ridiculously that armour tanking HAV's were pushed to almost virtual uselessness if anyone has anything advanced and up, even the basics are ridiculous. I got a Myron dropship, and the same thing applies. Can't Anything be done competently??? Jeez. armor tanking HAVs are still bawss if its proto mods vs std or adv AV.. more so if you got a competent pilot I guess. Just the movement speed would be a killer with using plates. I am Gamer Satan's lover, but don't tell anyone that. You can help my cause to purify scrubs by praying to Gamer Satan.
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 149	Posted - 2014.10.31 21:02:00 - [4] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Atiim wrote: There are several Myron & Madrugar fits that can survive Swarm Launchers, provided that you don't stand there like an idiot and actually get to cover when your being fired at. Though I should note that there has only been a single Swarm Launcher buff since Uprising 1.2. This. Any vehicle pilot who actually is still dying is either stupid or is fighting against a ton of AV. In addition to only being buffed once, I will add that prototype AV was actually nerfed in damage recently, and in turn radius. I'm sure you're using basic/militia vehicle equipment and vehicles to make such assumptions. Regardless the nerf was miniscule, as volleys can still be shot almost continuously, and missiles still move quickly and paint targets in damage easily. I am Gamer Satan's lover, but don't tell anyone that. You can help my cause to purify scrubs by praying to Gamer Satan.
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 150	Posted - 2014.10.31 22:35:00 - [5] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Forum Flaming doesn't refute my statement. I don't even have advanced or proto vehicles, or equipment in the vehicle tree, nearly everything is basic. A point is a point. I am Gamer Satan's lover, but don't tell anyone that. You can help my cause to purify scrubs by praying to Gamer Satan.
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 150	Posted - 2014.11.01 04:52:00 - [6] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: your not using a tank to survive swarms, your using a tank to be completely 100% invulnerarble to all non av infantry. swarms are supposed to own you in the same way you own infantry. its called balance. Either one being invincible/ killing them in 3 seconds/ stealthkilling them is not balance, just as like being able to shoot a person you can't see and that can kill you in one hit is not balance. Vehicles are supposed to be useable, not "own and be owned" I am Gamer Satan's lover, but don't tell anyone that. You can help my cause to purify scrubs by praying to Gamer Satan.
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 152	Posted - 2014.11.01 23:53:00 - [7] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Untrue. Anyone can easily destroy a militia vehicle with militia/basic av not needing putting much effort into fighting the vehicle, and anyone can easily destroy basic vehicles in the same manner except basic tanks. Madrugars can still be destroyed like that, and gunnlogis may give trouble but if there is someone with advanced+ av or advanced+ large turrets everything is fine. Vehicles shouldn't exist just to be destroyed, just like ranges, mages, and melee exist to be used and not bested like they exist in an archaic and boring system of rock/paper scissors. This is warfare and warfare doesn't work like that. FPS are based off of warfare. One side shouldn't be disadvantaged based off the time it takes for players to attack them like how swarmers can destroy vehicles like that. If you can't use militia/basic av to destroy vehicles like that, then your it needs to be changed to be more stealthy or you need to get farther from the vehicle. Thats what everyone else does at least. But for everything else, vehicle users are at a disadvantage if they don't have ADS or gunnlogi/madrugar/saga II or some superfit exploiting modules. I am Gamer Satan's lover, but don't tell anyone that. You can help my cause to purify scrubs by praying to Gamer Satan.