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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
294
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Posted - 2014.10.31 01:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not a dropship pilot. In fact I ask dropship pilots to educate me on how they fly.
But as someone who has a character that uses swarms I will say this. I can pretty much shoot them whenever I want. I have seen some crazy dropship manuevers. Some serious spiral swinging drifting in the air curves of beauty. And my swarms follow them -- which seems odd to me. Seems to me that Swarms should have a VERY limited turning radius. I like the speed on them. I think they should outrun dropships significantly. But they turn way too fast.
At the end of one of those amazing sideways flying air skids the missles should be way past the ship and still trying to turn to retarget. I shouldn't be able to fire my volley at the end of the movement -- I should have to wait until the dropship levels off and isn't screaming around a corner like a bat out of hell. This will also limit the scenario where we have multiple swarms from the same person in the air as a skilled swarm user will put up 2 volleys and then wait to see the reaction.
Seems to me that would kill ADS' that sit there and try to hover/smash everyone and would allow skilled pilots to escape while still stalling/deterring them. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
301
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Posted - 2014.11.01 05:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:The swarm changes are not noticeable. Afterburning straight up is still a better tactic than actually performing evasive maneuvers, unfortunately.
The Rail Incubus, however, has been vastly improved. It is once again viable in PC, and flying with a gunner is no longer suicide. Thanks, Rattati o7 Very good to hear. Swarms have two balancing factors, "travel distance" and "max radius from origin", so there are two ways to escape, get out of the max radius, or evade it long enough. By decreasing turn radius, the theory is that if the ads manages to swerve/slalom around, the missile needs to travel a longer distance to keep up and will eventually run out of fuel (exceed max travel distance). Rattati, during one of the balance passes you mentioned that the max distance of the swarms was from the launch location and not travel distance. Can you confirm that the swarms can "run out of fuel" before reaching the end of their life timer by going in circles? I was under the impression that after they launched, you had to get 400m away from the origin to lose them, and making them circle around within that 400m would just lead to their life ticker counting to 0. Please confirm?
It looks like both. He said that they are limited by travel distance (how many meters they travel) AND radius.
So say a dropship flies in a strait line away from the swarm and has enough of a headstart to stay ahead of the missles. When said DS hits max radius the missles disappear. OR say a DS pilot with excellent skills circles at pretty much the same distance from the swarm launcher using his mad awesome dodge skills to keep making the missles miss. After said missles have travelled x distance (in attempting to hit the DS, missing, and reorienting) then they go poof even if the DS is just as close (or closer) to the swarmer as it always was.
Hence a lower turn radius on the missles allow DS to avoid missles much like a fighter jet would in real life. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
306
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Posted - 2014.11.02 07:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Imp Smash wrote:
Hence a lower turn radius on the missles allow DS to avoid missles much like a fighter jet would in real life.
^^ Not a good analogy; Fighters deploy heat and electronic countermeasures to confuse missile systems, and do not rely on turning speed alone. Back to Dust though In order to out turn a missile you have to pull off manuevers tighter than 70 degrees. "Skill" here is a moot point, getting a dropship to change momentum (very different from fliping the nose around) at turns tighter than that causes one to lose speed (pretty mcuh stop dead in its tracks, thats what i use when i want to stop not out turn a missile) and boom missile hits. Tight turns are at low speeds, yet this only applies to the dropship and not the missile chasing it. Missiles make 70-¦ turns at maximums speed, whereas i can barley manage to keep top speed up at turns under 45-¦ Currently, missiles move much faster than a dropship (especially vs the incubus with the 12% speed penalty for 120Mmm complex plates, and turns tighter than one. The countermeasure for pilots vs swarms is to get out of lock on range before the swarmer gets off volley either 3 or 4, missiles in the air will consisntently nail you; TL;DR No matter how hard you turn, you will never lose a lock, no matter where you choose to fly, the missile will get there before you do.
Then obviously the way forward is to nerf swarm turn radius more. So that dropships can outmanuever them but have to stop shooting at people for a bit while they dodge, dip, duck, and dodge. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
310
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Posted - 2014.11.06 00:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Matlab, my all time favorite software  I am more than willing to try further reductions of swarm radius. I would even want ADS pilots to be able to outrun/last them without AB. Those who want an easier way out and lose a slot can use the AB, but the ones that fancy their chances might throw something else in that slot and try their luck at outmaneuvering them with higher skill. I would really love it if the afterburner was not absolutely necessary, though risky to not use it. (I actually already do not run an afterburner with great success). I JUST played a match where I was out about 350 meters away from the swarmer, and was into armor in a myron. I ducked behind a building in my red line, but the swarms had flown so wide they were not coming from the swarmer's original location, and hit me from the side for the kill. This leads me to an interesting thought, we were discussing a lock warning earlier this month. Well in many other games the missile warning also tells you where the missiles are coming from. Since we can't turn our heads in game to look behind us (perhaps a look behind button is a feature idea???), the missile warning could also have a directional indicator so we know what angle to take cover at. Alternatively, if we could look behind us, we could also see what angle the swarms are coming in from.
This is pretty good though. A directional warning indicator denoting lock (present to great success in other games) would give pilots the ability to decide fight or flight. Then you wouldn't need to nerf swarms at all as it'll become more an issue of pilot skill. |
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