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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2697
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Posted - 2014.10.30 01:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why don't we look at the heart of the problem, shared passives?
Removing them would be such an easy solution, it makes me actually somewhat angry that we haven't done it..
Seriously, what reason is there for not doing this?
It really, seriously, balances scouts without making the cloak a useless piece of shit, which it will be next patch.
Also, can the scout role bonus be changed to 5% dampening again? Please and thank you.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2697
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Posted - 2014.10.30 01:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Won't matter to me at this point. I recently ditched the cloak and started to knife people the old fashion way without it. The only problem is our role bonus is now useless. Id prefer something like scan range and dampening, or anything rather than a bonus to what will soon be the most laughable piece of equipment.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2697
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Posted - 2014.10.30 01:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Won't matter to me at this point. I recently ditched the cloak and started to knife people the old fashion way without it. The only problem is our role bonus is now useless. Id prefer something like scan range and dampening, or anything rather than a bonus to what will soon be the most laughable piece of equipment. Good point, and this is how they make loot off aur respec s I won't respec, I knew that if enough sheep in GD whined for long enough, the scout would be returned to uselessness, and have SP in my Min Assault, which will soon be the only thing I use.
Min Scout=dead.
There will be no reason to ninja hack a point, as you won't see the heavy that melees you to death, and knives will only work in pubs.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2699
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Posted - 2014.10.30 03:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:OP post makes no sense.
You want to balance scouts (implying that you think they are imbalanced) by making every other suit weaker EXCEPT the scout (loss of the scout's info feed).
So, by that I assume that you feel scouts are Under powered and need a buff? ONLY scouts know where the enemy is and scouts themselves stay invisible yet with very high combat abilities.
I don't even.... This could be the most ignorant post Ive seen. Scouts are not overpowered from any standpoint other than that they provide shared passives, which makes them commonly used. They are also not underpowered.
In PC's, scouts are used for passives, and heavies for slaying. Taking away shared passives means assaults and scouts and heavies and commandos all slaying together because they are on a balanced playing field.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2699
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Posted - 2014.10.30 03:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
matsumoto yuichi san wrote:One Eyed King wrote:matsumoto yuichi san wrote:you guys are so overreacting, the tf2 spy has a decloak delay, AND it make a nice sound, AND YET SPIES DON'T SUFFER
i mean it just mean you gasp use the cloak to gain positioning, not to murder death kill, and the scan thing is fair, the i can't be seen, can see everyone doesn't have good parity, it's not like you are blind you jsut don't get your passive wallhack, i mean for mediums the passive scans are useless anyway, as they have to be on your face for it to work. so use the cloak to position and then decloak and then kill, it's not hard
and yes now this means if someone spots you while cloaked and gets some shots in they get a slight upper hand, only fair. Cloak delay is not an issue. Not in the least. I even advocated for a second delay, 3 times what is actually being implemented. What I have been against since the first suggestion of it is the 85% reduction to range. That not only affects slayer scouts, which do need some balancing, but it affects hackers as well, which don't need balanced. in the hacker scenario you are still A near invisible, and B probably at the point have essentially the range of an assault so i wouldn't complain that if you want to hack whilst invisible you are brought back to normal levels for scan range... You have less than half the range of an assault suit... don't pull stuff out of your ass, it doesn't help your case.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2702
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Posted - 2014.10.31 03:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Imp Smash wrote:OP post makes no sense.
You want to balance scouts (implying that you think they are imbalanced) by making every other suit weaker EXCEPT the scout (loss of the scout's info feed).
So, by that I assume that you feel scouts are Under powered and need a buff? ONLY scouts know where the enemy is and scouts themselves stay invisible yet with very high combat abilities.
I don't even.... This could be the most ignorant post Ive seen. Scouts are not overpowered from any standpoint other than that they provide shared passives, which makes them commonly used. They are also not underpowered. In PC's, scouts are used for passives, and heavies for slaying. Taking away shared passives means assaults and scouts and heavies and commandos all slaying together because they are on a balanced playing field. Ignorant means lacking knowledge on the subject. I understand the subject. The problem (that you have) is that I don't agree with your reasoning. Your are proposing a change that 'literally' is a buff to scouts as the problem with them now is not that they can see things -- but that they can see things and kill things (pretty much anything) with nigh impunity. If the scout couldn't slay everything then the ability to see things and communicate it to the rest of the team wouldn't be much of a problem (in my opinion.) The ability to slay everything is based on factors such as cloak, difficulty/impossibility of detection, and actual strait up front line combat efficacy due to hitbox/lag/brokenhitdetection. You are attempting to further solidify the 'slayer scout' role which CCP is actively trying to reverse. That is my opinion. You may call it stupid because you don't agree (and if you don't want to look stupid yourself providing a rationale for your disagreement works wonders) but you can't call it ignorant. Fair enough.
My claim that your post is ignorant is redacted.
However, I wholeheartedly disagree that a scout being able to slay is a problem.
Is slaying as a Sentinel a problem? No.
Is slaying as a Commando a problem? No.
Why should the scout be different?
Where the Heavy has high HP and DPS to allow it to slay, the scout relies on eWAR and speed to allow it to slay.
Thats balance right there, and there is absolutely no problem with it whatsoever.
The problem arises when the scout can slay equally as well as other classes (which is fine on its own), AND can provide his primary slaying "strength" to the rest of his squad. Im referring to eWAR detection. In the hands of anything but a low HP scout, having that good of scans is unbalanced. Theres no way around that, IMHO.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2712
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Posted - 2014.11.01 15:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:
That's an entirely fair argument. You make a fair argument about how scouts should also be able to kill. Notice I did not name NK or Shotties as problems. And as I stated before -- I don't mind the Ewar.
As many other posters have suggested, the binary nature of Ewar may be the issue. As for me I don't have a problem with it. Honestly I think the issue is with the survivability of the scout suit. All that Ewar is fine if the scout was a glass cannon. Ie. died easily. And honestly -- scout fits with low HP don't die as fast as a logi with the same HP. It's a speed/lag/hitbox issue. I think if scouts were more easily killed in a strait up fight the only problem would be the people who complain because they didn't maintain situational awareness.
I mentioned once before in another thread that I look over my shoulder a LOT now. And I sometimes catch scouts trying to sneak up on me. In that situation I should kill them. But so many times they speed tank the damage just strafing back and forth in a one meter area and none of my bullets hit. I find THAT the problem behind slayer scouts.
When a scout completely sneaks up on me I am entirely ok with it. That's my fault.
So essentially I would argue that the scout is able to slay more effectively than other classes.
The argument about scouts being able to share scans is interesting. But as I stated earlier, I consider that a buff to the other classes. Scouts themselves aren't any more or less effective at slaying because they help their team on scans. And that's the rub that people have had with scouts. They are arguably more effective than other classes at killing/living -- and while you make a fair point about shared scans -- it doesn't really address the problem in my humble opinion.
Also, to be fair, I am not a scout. Never have been. So I can only speak from the perspective of an assault.
I agree 100% that binary eWAR is a problem.
To counter this, I made a suggestion to buff cloaks and active scanners, and nerf passive scans, but in a way that scouts still have to dampen or they do get detected. Ill link it here in a few when I find it.
I also agree that strafing is a problem, but with 1.9, there are supposed hit detection fixes that would help quite a bit with it.
However, strafing isn't something that only a scout abuses. TBH I find a strafing assault with twice the HP of a scout that strafes at 90% of the scouts speed to be even harder to take down than a scout. With a SG, one blast and the scout dies. With an assault, it takes anywhere from 2-4, due to hit detection and what not.
However, I believe that if the core mechanics are fixed to a point where hit detection works much better and shared passives are removed, the scout will stop being the number two most important unit in PC, and the heavy number one. Instead, I feel that all classes will be balanced completely, and that there would be absolutely no need for a ridiculous cloak nerf that forces a scout to have worse passive scans than a sentinel.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2714
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Posted - 2014.11.01 22:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Thread reported for being an insult to the intelligence of anyone who's played pc in the last 6 months.
Ridiculous line of bs is ridiculous.
Please allow me to solve all your problems with the cloak, your passive scan range and hacking: NOTE *The following is borrowed from the feedback "scouts" provided to the community who have questioned the imbalanced design of scouts and by proxy, cloaking*
-> USE YOUR EYES<-
Sincerely, Nerf scouts. With no delay. Coming from Cap Aq, second to only LATINO KILLER CORP in the number of HMG heavies deployed on the field in PC.
Nerf Heavies. Nothing should have enough HP to survive a remote explosive.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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