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WTH is wrong with the rail rifle?

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hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 0	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:06:00 - [1] - Quote Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too.
Vicious Minotaur 1278	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:09:00 - [2] - Quote Now that the DUST overlord is a dirty Gallentean, expect every single Caldari thing to be nerfed into the ground. I am a minotaur.
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 0	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:12:00 - [3] - Quote Yea its real funny, if its bright flashing didnt wanna make you go epileptic already now it shakes the hell outta my screen.
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 648	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:12:00 - [4] - Quote backstep a couple few meters and use the scope provided with your rifle. Problem solved
Son-Of A-Gun Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1362	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:23:00 - [5] - Quote hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. Strange? My AR seems to be working fine? {:)}{3GÇó>
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 543	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:29:00 - [6] - Quote hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. When you aim in at long range can you hit with it? Then it is now doing its job. Caldari=long range. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 0	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:34:00 - [7] - Quote Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. When you aim in at long range can you hit with it? Then it is now doing its job. Caldari=long range. Still its hipfire shouldnt be that extreme.
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 923	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:36:00 - [8] - Quote surprise balance hotfix Notable features: All suits now have a small amount of passive armor regen. Get creative! Use those shield regulators like you always wanted to! Incubus rail heat bug fix Scrambler rifles heat and seize time reduced Rail Rifle hipfire kick ****ed sideways Bolt pistol charge time increased
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 0	Posted - 2014.10.29 05:47:00 - [9] - Quote I dont care about the kick so much, its the shaking. Why does it have to make my tv sceen spazz out?
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8148	Posted - 2014.10.29 07:16:00 - [10] - Quote hails8n wrote: Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. When you aim in at long range can you hit with it? Then it is now doing its job. Caldari=long range. Still its hipfire shouldnt be that extreme. "If a Gallente Said something Similar" I should still be doing at least 80% Optimal at 80 meters. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.

hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 1	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:41:00 - [11] - Quote Bump unless a devs said something about it then please inform.
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 635	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:43:00 - [12] - Quote hails8n wrote: Bump unless a devs said something about it then please inform. There's like a 10 page thread on this with a Dev response. Rattati said he did it intentionally edit: link to thread
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1883	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:43:00 - [13] - Quote Although I disagree with this particular nerf for the reason outlined by the OP, it's working as intended, apparently. See this thread for details: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=178946&find=unread And before someone suggests I'm crying about a lost crutch, I use the RR probably 1 out of 50 pub suits and practically never in PC (where it was virtually obsolete long ago). For those of you struggling with the increased ineffectiveness of the RR in CQC, I suggest you either get a more balanced ADS/hipfire weapon (i.e. anything other than a RR or LR), or become good with a sidearm.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1442	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:50:00 - [14] - Quote hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. it got "balanced" like 1-2 days ago [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 1	Posted - 2014.10.29 17:57:00 - [15] - Quote So if it was a nerf based on kdr like the ads nerf why did the arr get hipfire nerf. All i ever used that thing for was hipfire.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1885	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:01:00 - [16] - Quote hails8n wrote: So if it was a nerf based on kdr like the ads nerf why did the arr get hipfire nerf. All i ever used that thing for was hipfire. It appears as if the numbers Ratatti looked at, which were primarily kill/spawn and overall use, dictated that something be done. Ratatti chose hipfire dispersion and kick as that something. See the thread I linked in post #13 above for a more detailed justification including lots of data and graphs.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1885	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:02:00 - [17] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. it got "balanced" like 1-2 days ago It got balanced yesterday at downtime, and your client was updated upon a subsequent logon. And, FWIW, the ARR actually got a bit of a buff, and no nerfs to hipfire kick or dispersion. Personally, I didn't notice any difference in the ARR, which I've used extensively since its introduction.
Omega Nox Consolidated Dust 6	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:07:00 - [18] - Quote Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction
RayRay James Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 637	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:10:00 - [19] - Quote Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction Lasers cant be seen in normal atmosphere Plasma rifles don't shoot bullets Forge guns would obliterate anything they got near (no splash damage anymore) Scrambler rifles don't shoot scrambled eggs flaylocs wouldn't do any damage because the yield would be too small There's no nut pistol to counter the bolt pistol Ion pistols don't make your hair stand on end. DUST IS DYING !!!!!11111oneoneoneoneleveneleven
Omega Nox Consolidated Dust 6	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:12:00 - [20] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction Lasers cant be seen in normal atmosphere Plasma rifles don't shoot bullets Forge guns would obliterate anything they got near (no splash damage anymore) Scrambler rifles don't shoot scrambled eggs flaylocs wouldn't do any damage because the yield would be too small There's no nut pistol to counter the bolt pistol Ion pistols don't make your hair stand on end. DUST IS DYING !!!!!11111oneoneoneoneleveneleven I laughed so hard at this not going to lie.

hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 1	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:13:00 - [21] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. it got "balanced" like 1-2 days ago It got balanced yesterday at downtime, and your client was updated upon a subsequent logon. And, FWIW, the ARR actually got a bit of a buff, and no nerfs to hipfire kick or dispersion. Personally, I didn't notice any difference in the ARR, which I've used extensively since its introduction. It got not buff, only a hard hipfire nerf. Just use it.
Kuruld Sengar Balac's Disciples 19	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:19:00 - [22] - Quote Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction "III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." - http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/history/newton3laws.html The magnetic field pushes in opposite directions with the same force. This force pushes on the round in one direction, while pushing the source of the field (the gun) in the opposite direction. The kick seems to have less force that the round, because the rifle has a larger mass.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4777	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:23:00 - [23] - Quote hails8n wrote: Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. When you aim in at long range can you hit with it? Then it is now doing its job. Caldari=long range. Still its hipfire shouldnt be that extreme. With a well thought out and clearly articulated argument you may be able to convince them to scale it back a bit. I do think the Assault Rail Rifle should be setup to allow hip fire, as it does not have a Scope and should provide the short rang alternative to the base Rail Rifle. For those heavily invested in Rail Rifle who need an alternative for urban maps. I have not had a chance to test it yet myself. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 929	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:24:00 - [24] - Quote Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction Actually, bad science fiction is when the writers assume railguns and coilguns magically ignore Newton's laws of motion because they don't understand how magnets work It always makes me happy to see a railgun kick like a mule
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4777	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:31:00 - [25] - Quote Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction Unless they have figured out how to defy the laws of physics, I imagine Rail guns have a mighty big kick in real life. DonGÇÖt they usually anchor them to massive cement pads? Also in dust the term GÇ£RifleGÇ¥ is used to denote a functional role, that historically was fulfilled by long guns with riffled barrels. I expect the Combat Rifle is the only rile in DUST that has a riffled barrel. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9971	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:41:00 - [26] - Quote Kuruld Sengar wrote: Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction "III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." - http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/history/newton3laws.html The magnetic field pushes in opposite directions with the same force. This force pushes on the round in one direction, while pushing the source of the field (the gun) in the opposite direction. The kick seems to have less force that the round, because the rifle has a larger mass. SCIENCE On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12858	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:41:00 - [27] - Quote I don't remember my Plasma Rifle being able to effectively kill stuff at long range. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12858	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:43:00 - [28] - Quote hails8n wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. it got "balanced" like 1-2 days ago It got balanced yesterday at downtime, and your client was updated upon a subsequent logon. And, FWIW, the ARR actually got a bit of a buff, and no nerfs to hipfire kick or dispersion. Personally, I didn't notice any difference in the ARR, which I've used extensively since its introduction. It got not buff, only a hard hipfire nerf. Just use it. Its clip size and damage was increased quite a bit. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2070	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:45:00 - [29] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: hails8n wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. it got "balanced" like 1-2 days ago It got balanced yesterday at downtime, and your client was updated upon a subsequent logon. And, FWIW, the ARR actually got a bit of a buff, and no nerfs to hipfire kick or dispersion. Personally, I didn't notice any difference in the ARR, which I've used extensively since its introduction. It got not buff, only a hard hipfire nerf. Just use it. Its clip size and damage was increased quite a bit. And the hipfire kick was increased alongside the base RR. I ran tests before and after, there is far more kick on the ARR now. I'm campaigning to have this corrected, alongside a range reduction for the ARR. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Omega Nox Consolidated Dust 6	Posted - 2014.10.29 18:53:00 - [30] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction Actually, bad science fiction is when the writers assume railguns and coilguns magically ignore Newton's laws of motion because they don't understand how magnets work It always makes me happy to see a railgun kick like a mule Well the Lorentz force would force the rail gun backwards not upwards wouldn't it? and how come the combat rifle is more smooth with hip fire than the rail rifle?

Omega Nox Consolidated Dust 6	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:05:00 - [31] - Quote Omega Nox wrote: MrShooter01 wrote: Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction Actually, bad science fiction is when the writers assume railguns and coilguns magically ignore Newton's laws of motion because they don't understand how magnets work It always makes me happy to see a railgun kick like a mule Well the Lorentz force would force the rail gun backwards not upwards wouldn't it? and how come the combat rifle is more smooth with hip fire than the rail rifle? How much does the projectile used in the rail rifle weigh? That is the "equal and opposite"! There is no explosive used in a "Rail Gun" there is very limited friction in a "Rail Gun" and the projectile is NOT rifled in a "rail Gun". facts are very stubborn things.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1887	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:09:00 - [32] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cat Merc wrote: hails8n wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: It got balanced yesterday at downtime, and your client was updated upon a subsequent logon. And, FWIW, the ARR actually got a bit of a buff, and no nerfs to hipfire kick or dispersion. Personally, I didn't notice any difference in the ARR, which I've used extensively since its introduction. It got not buff, only a hard hipfire nerf. Just use it. Its clip size and damage was increased quite a bit. And the hipfire kick was increased alongside the base RR. I ran tests before and after, there is far more kick on the ARR now. I'm campaigning to have this corrected, alongside a range reduction for the ARR. You may be right, but that's not what Ratatti said, nor has this long time ARR user noticed any change to kick or range. It's always kicked like a mule, and has also always been very difficult to take down targets at range after the first few rounds.
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 1	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:24:00 - [33] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cat Merc wrote: hails8n wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: It got balanced yesterday at downtime, and your client was updated upon a subsequent logon. And, FWIW, the ARR actually got a bit of a buff, and no nerfs to hipfire kick or dispersion. Personally, I didn't notice any difference in the ARR, which I've used extensively since its introduction. It got not buff, only a hard hipfire nerf. Just use it. Its clip size and damage was increased quite a bit. And the hipfire kick was increased alongside the base RR. I ran tests before and after, there is far more kick on the ARR now. I'm campaigning to have this corrected, alongside a range reduction for the ARR. You may be right, but that's not what Ratatti said, nor has this long time ARR user noticed any change to kick or range. The ARR has always kicked like a mule, and has also always been very difficult to take down targets at range after the first few rounds. So as far as Ratatti's words and my observations are correct, the ARR only received a buff in damage and clip size and everything else about the weapon is unchanged, and I have no earthly idea how you drew a conclusion to the contrary. You didn't happen to video your tests, did you? Thr hipfire kick was definitely changed on it. If you havent ised it already.
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4124	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:27:00 - [34] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: hails8n wrote: Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: hails8n wrote: Its flying out of my hands every time i try to hipfire. The assault version too. When you aim in at long range can you hit with it? Then it is now doing its job. Caldari=long range. Still its hipfire shouldnt be that extreme. "If a Gallente Said something Similar" I should still be doing at least 80% Optimal at 80 meters. This. You'd do well to wisely choose how you fit your suit for engagements now, OP.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2071	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:34:00 - [35] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cat Merc wrote: hails8n wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: It got balanced yesterday at downtime, and your client was updated upon a subsequent logon. And, FWIW, the ARR actually got a bit of a buff, and no nerfs to hipfire kick or dispersion. Personally, I didn't notice any difference in the ARR, which I've used extensively since its introduction. It got not buff, only a hard hipfire nerf. Just use it. Its clip size and damage was increased quite a bit. And the hipfire kick was increased alongside the base RR. I ran tests before and after, there is far more kick on the ARR now. I'm campaigning to have this corrected, alongside a range reduction for the ARR. You may be right, but that's not what Ratatti said, nor has this long time ARR user noticed any change to kick or range. The ARR has always kicked like a mule, and has also always been very difficult to take down targets at range after the first few rounds. So as far as Ratatti's words and my observations are correct, the ARR only received a buff in damage and clip size and everything else about the weapon is unchanged, and I have no earthly idea how you drew a conclusion to the contrary. You didn't happen to video your tests, did you? I did not, I have not the equipment, however, I can point out on Rattati's spreadsheet that it says Rail Rifle Hipfire Kick per shot multiplier applies to ALL. The ARR keeping the same charge up multiplier was brought up after the fact, and the spreadsheet was not updated to reflect this. Therefore, I conclude that he meant to change the charge up time and hipfire kick on both the ARR and base RR, but then changed his mind on the charge up time for the ARR since he mentioned it in the OP of the balance hotfix thread. Based on this, and my recoil tests from before the balance, when I was testing out the ARR performance versus the base RR the hipfire was definitely increased alongside the base RR. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1892	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:10:00 - [36] - Quote Good stuff. Thanks for sharing (and FWIW, I think you're dead on correct about the ARR in that other thread). Regardless, I think we need to hear from Ratatti on if the hipfire kick increase applied to both the RR and ARR....and if that was intentional (necessary?) or not with respect to the ARR whose statistics (both usage and K/S) clearly were sub-par when compared to its cousin the RR. In other words, did the alleged hipfire kick increase in the ARR make the buffs to damage and clip size ineffective?
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 558	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:43:00 - [37] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Omega Nox wrote: Why would a rail gun (which the term rail rifle doesn't make any sense because rail guns don't require rifling) have kickback in the first place? there is no recoil because there is no explosive charge in a rail gun irl! they use magnetic propulsion. Bad science fiction Lasers cant be seen in normal atmosphere Plasma rifles don't shoot bullets Forge guns would obliterate anything they got near (no splash damage anymore) Scrambler rifles don't shoot scrambled eggs flaylocs wouldn't do any damage because the yield would be too small There's no nut pistol to counter the bolt pistol Ion pistols don't make your hair stand on end. DUST IS DYING !!!!!11111oneoneoneoneleveneleven Tanks don't talk anymore and dropships are dropping, but in the wrong way. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17549	Posted - 2014.10.29 20:49:00 - [38] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sAUHwTP4A IRL railgun has reciol CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 29	Posted - 2014.10.31 21:21:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sAUHwTP4A IRL railgun has reciol you're an idiot. BAE's projectile weighs 7lbs and travels @ 8000 feet per second. my RR in dust would tickle in terms of recoil.
Omega Nox Consolidated Dust 10	Posted - 2014.10.31 21:26:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sAUHwTP4A IRL railgun has reciol reciol lol.

TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1300	Posted - 2014.10.31 22:12:00 - [41] - Quote have you ever shot a RR in real life? that **** kicks all over the place... when i shoot my RR i usually break a rib AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1194	Posted - 2014.10.31 22:14:00 - [42] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Now that the DUST overlord is a dirty Gallentean, expect every single Caldari thing to be nerfed into the ground. r u stupid? RR Cal Scout and cal sent were at a good position but RR needed a nerf. All of caldari things are good they needed some balancing Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2619	Posted - 2014.10.31 22:15:00 - [43] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: have you ever shot a RR in real life? that ** kicks all over the place... when i shoot my RR i usually break a rib True dat, one only has to watch this historical documentary excerpt to clearly see why RRs are so hellish to use accurately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZE29cOgvc "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire**
Omega Nox Consolidated Dust 12	Posted - 2014.10.31 22:30:00 - [44] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: have you ever shot a RR in real life? that **** kicks all over the place... when i shoot my RR i usually break a rib True dat, one only has to watch this historical documentary excerpt to clearly see why RRs are so hellish to use accurately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZE29cOgvc Be careful don't give CCP any ideas or else we may end up with scouts pitching heavies down hallways at us! lol LOL I like how some people act all serious, like they matter.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1300	Posted - 2014.11.01 00:13:00 - [45] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: have you ever shot a RR in real life? that **** kicks all over the place... when i shoot my RR i usually break a rib True dat, one only has to watch this historical documentary excerpt to clearly see why RRs are so hellish to use accurately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZE29cOgvc sick.. never seen this movie but also came accross this dropship owning some sidearm noob with a rail turret: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOJ1XsUly00 nvm... it was acutally an RE kill AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012


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